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Athlete Turns Her Back on the Flag During National Anthem (1 Viewer)

ekbeats

Footballguy
Lovely.  Remember the Flag Day thread when everyone got so outraged when I said that many Liberals hate the flag and what it stands for?  Here's Exhibit A.  "I don't really want to talk about the anthem because that's not important. The anthem doesn't speak for me. It never has."  If you hate the county that much, perhaps you shouldn't represent that country in the Olympics.  

Message sent: Berry turns away from flag during anthem

For the past week, they've played the national anthem one time a night at the U.S. Olympic track and field trials.

On Saturday, the song happened to start while outspoken activist Gwen Berry was standing on the podium after receiving her bronze medal in the hammer throw.

While the music played, Berry placed her left hand on her hip and shuffled her feet. She took a quarter turn, so she was facing the stands, not the flag. Toward the end, she plucked up her black T-shirt with the words "Activist Athlete" emblazoned on the front, and draped it over her head.

"I feel like it was a set-up, and they did it on purpose," Berry said of the timing of the anthem. "I was pissed, to be honest."

Berry's reaction to the "Star-Spangled Banner" took its fair share of the spotlight on a blazing-hot second-to-last day at trials that also featured some blazing-fast times.

Gabby Thomas became the second-fastest woman ever in the 200, winning the final in 21.61 seconds. The only woman faster: Florence Griffith-Joyner. And, as expected, Grant Holloway won the 110-meter hurdles, though his time in the semifinals was the eye-opener. His 12.81 was only 0.01 off the world record.

Other winners Saturday included Emily Sisson (10,000), Katie Nageotte (pole vault), Maggie Malone (javelin), Rai Benjamin (400 hurdles) and Brittney Reese (long jump).

Not winning: Allyson Felix, who finished fifth in the 200, but already had her spot secured in the 400.

Also, Noah Lyles finished second in his 200 semifinal and looked somewhat shocked to see that 17-year-old Erriyon Knighton had beaten him to the line. Knighton finished in 19.88 to top an under-20 world record that had been held by none other than Usain Bolt.

Earlier, with temperatures reaching 101 degrees (38 Celsius) on the field, Berry earned her spot, and her platform at the Tokyo Olympics, grabbing the third spot by a scant 2 inches over Janee Kassanavoid.

Berry has promised to use her position to keep raising awareness about social injustices in her home country.

"My purpose and my mission is bigger than sports," Berry said. "I'm here to represent those ... who died due to systemic racism. That's the important part. That's why I'm going. That's why I'm here today."

She found it to be no matter of coincidence that she was front and center during the anthem. Unlike the Olympics, they don't play anthems to accompany medals ceremonies at the trials. But the hammer throwers received their awards just before the start of the evening session, which has been kicking off all week with a video rendition of "The Star-Spangled Banner" played on the scoreboard.

USA Track and Field spokeswoman Susan Hazzard said "the national anthem was scheduled to play at 5:20 p.m. today. We didn't wait until the athletes were on the podium for the hammer throw awards. The national anthem is played every day according to a previously published schedule." On Saturday, the music started at 5:25.

And so, while winner DeAnna Price and second-place finisher Brooke Andersen stood still on the podium with their hands over the hearts and stared straight ahead at the American and Oregon flags, Berry fidgeted and paced on the third step. Then turned away. And finally grabbed her T-shirt.

"They said they were going to play it before we walked out, then they played it when we were out there," Berry said. "But I don't really want to talk about the anthem because that's not important. The anthem doesn't speak for me. It never has."

Berry's gestures drew virtually no reaction from the still-filling stands. And they were something far less than two summers ago, when she raised her fist on the podium after winning the Pan-Am Games.

That demonstration led to a sanction, but ultimately pushed the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee to commit to not punishing athletes who raise fists or kneel at the trials or in Tokyo. It's a potential flash point for Tokyo, where the IOC has said it will enforce its Rule 50 that bans demonstrations inside the lines. It's the same prohibition that got sprinters Tommie Smith and John Carlos sent home from the Mexico City Games in 1968.

Now, Berry will be heading to her second Olympics, and she saw what it will take to earn anything close to a similar moment in Tokyo.

Price won with a throw of 263 feet, 6 inches (80.31 meters), which was nearly 7 feet longer than Berry's throw. Price, who became only the second woman in history to crack 80 meters, had no problem sharing the stage with Berry.

"I think people should say whatever they want to say. I’m proud of her," Price said.

She figures to be going for gold along with world-record holder Anita Wlodarczyk of Poland, who is expected to be in Japan. Meanwhile, Andersen's throw was a mere 2 inches shy of Berry's personal best.

Berry said she needs to get "my body right, my mind right and my spirit right" for the Olympics. The women's hammer throw starts Aug. 1.

But she doesn't think she needs to be on the podium in Tokyo to have an impact.

"I don't need to do anything sport-wise," she said. "What I need to do is speak for my community, to represent my community and to help my community. Because that's more important than sports."



 
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You know who you'd never see that from?  Paul Chelimo, who won the 5K this morning.  He was born in Kenya and was given the opportunity to come to America and attend college.  He then joined the US Armed Forces to become an American citizen.  When he won the 5K this morning, in somewhat controversial fashion due to some of his aggressive gestures during the race, a reporter asked him why he was such a bad-### on the track.  He answered the question by saying that he's running for all of America, and that he loves this country and the opportunity it gave him.

 
I would have bet my house that one of the first Liberal response in here would have been about their right to protest rather than condemning the act of disrespect and divisiveness.  This is why we are screwed as a country.  If we can't at least agree on our core principles that are embodied in the flag and the anthem then I really don't see it getting better anytime soon.  The ties that bind a nation together are very tenuous, especially in a multi-cultural one like ours.  But hey - not worth arguing about I guess.  It is what it is.  Acts like this will just polarize sides even further and hasten the inevitable.  Just glad that I'll be fighting beside people like Paul Chelimo and not Gwen Berry.

 
You know who you'd never see that from?  Paul Chelimo, who won the 5K this morning.  He was born in Kenya and was given the opportunity to come to America and attend college.  He then joined the US Armed Forces to become an American citizen.  When he won the 5K this morning, in somewhat controversial fashion due to some of his aggressive gestures during the race, a reporter asked him why he was such a bad-### on the track.  He answered the question by saying that he's running for all of America, and that he loves this country and the opportunity it gave him.
This is important.  We need more Americans with this perspective to be vocal, and visible.  Are we a perfect nation?  Absolutely not.  Can you come here, work hard, and make yourself?  Absolutely.

People like Berry do hate America.  They hate our history.  They focus on the colonialism, slavery, etc.  That's the narrative.  We are systemically racist, and its because of judeo-Christian Europeans who built it, so it's got to come down.

imo, this is all a master plan.  The gub continues to get bigger, and have more control over our daily lives.  The masses willingly give up liberty for security.

 
@Joe Bryant has written many times that we need to try to be empathetic to those we disagree with and try to understand them. I’m trying to do that. And I think I DO understand @ekbeats and people who feel as he does. They are deeply offended and even hurt by this act. They view America as the greatest country on Earth (so do I BTW) and they believe that there is a difference between criticism and rude disrespect, and that what this woman has done represents the latter. She is spitting in the face of ALL Americans, they believe, through her actions, and they are outraged by this. She is dishonoring herself and the country she represents. And it’s far worse here than when an NFL quarterback does it, because she has been chosen to represent all of us. I get it. 
 

But ekbeats I wish you tried to be empathetic as well. This athlete isn’t acting this way because she hates America; she’s acting this way because she hates racism in America and thinks this is the best way to demonstrate against it. That you disagree with her about that is fine, but please try to understand her; your anger does neither you nor her nor any of us any good. Save your anger and disgust for truly bad people and not the ones whom you believe are merely misguided. 

 
This is important.  We need more Americans with this perspective to be vocal, and visible.  Are we a perfect nation?  Absolutely not.  Can you come here, work hard, and make yourself?  Absolutely.

People like Berry do hate America.  They hate our history.  They focus on the colonialism, slavery, etc.  That's the narrative.  We are systemically racist, and its because of judeo-Christian Europeans who built it, so it's got to come down.

imo, this is all a master plan.  The gub continues to get bigger, and have more control over our daily lives.  The masses willingly give up liberty for security.
I disagree with tim all the time but one of things he has said has always resonated with me - that immigrants are good for the country because they bring that perspective and patriotism.  

 
People like Berry do hate America.  

imo, this is all a master plan.  
She doesn’t. 
 

It isn’t. 
 

One of the biggest problems we face these days is assigning motives to the other side. You want to disapprove of the act and state your disapproval? Fine. But she stated her motives; take her at her word. 

 
I disagree with tim all the time but one of things he has said has always resonated with me - that immigrants are good for the country because they bring that perspective and patriotism.  
Thank you. They do.

But one reason they do is because they haven’t had to live with the collective memory of generations of racism and mistreatment. If you’re to understand Berry (and I think you would agree with me that you should try to understand her whether or not you agree with her act) you need to keep that in mind. 

 
But ekbeats I wish you tried to be empathetic as well. This athlete isn’t acting this way because she hates America; she’s acting this way because she hates racism in America and thinks this is the best way to demonstrate against it. That you disagree with her about that is fine, but please try to understand her; your anger does neither you nor her nor any of us any good. Save your anger and disgust for truly bad people and not the ones whom you believe are merely misguided. 
Based on the statements from her that I read, I’m not so sure about the bolded with respect to this particular instance.  This wasn’t a planned act of protest to bring attention to an issue of injustice.  No, in this instance, she was actually surprised and ticked off that the national anthem was playing at the time she was receiving her award (apparently it gets played at set times of the day).  She thought it was disrespectful to her that the anthem was playing at that time. If that is her position, I have to say that I’m not really that excited about having her represent our country if I’m being honest.

 
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She doesn’t. 
 

It isn’t. 
 

One of the biggest problems we face these days is assigning motives to the other side. You want to disapprove of the act and state your disapproval? Fine. But she stated her motives; take her at her word. 
It's more than that.  And to be clear, this is my opinion based on what I've observed. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's how I feel.

I feel these folks are being duped into focusing on all the negative.  This is not exclusive to the woke folks, but this is the dominant narrative being pushed forward currently.

 
She thought it was disrespectful to her that the anthem was playing at that time. If that is her position, I have to say that I’m not really that excited about having her represent our country if I’m being honest.
With you on that. 

 
This is important.  We need more Americans with this perspective to be vocal, and visible.  Are we a perfect nation?  Absolutely not.  Can you come here, work hard, and make yourself?  Absolutely.

People like Berry do hate America.  They hate our history.  They focus on the colonialism, slavery, etc.  That's the narrative.  We are systemically racist, and its because of judeo-Christian Europeans who built it, so it's got to come down.

imo, this is all a master plan.  The gub continues to get bigger, and have more control over our daily lives.  The masses willingly give up liberty for security.
America is so racist that a black woman made the Olympic team and, in a remarkable statement of racism, elected a black man President - TWICE!!

Of course, America is so racist that a black man made Hitler look like a fool on the world stage about 84 years ago.

 
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Thank you. They do.

But one reason they do is because they haven’t had to live with the collective memory of generations of racism and mistreatment. If you’re to understand Berry (and I think you would agree with me that you should try to understand her whether or not you agree with her act) you need to keep that in mind. 
You realize that many immigrants come from places where human, and civil rights are much worse than what we have in the states, right?  

Look, I don't want to minimize what folks of color have gone thru in our country.  But focusing on the negative 24/7 sometimes doesn't allow you to see any of the positive. That's the perspective of the first gen Americans I'm referring to.

 
What a stupid comment.
I disagree but I respect your right to also disagree. :thumbup:

Those who hate America should probably go represent a country that they feel represents them.  From what we've seen of the Left over the last 5-20 years, Cuba and Venezuala certainly make the cut.  North Korea is just an extreme form of leftism, so that would be for the extreme left in this country.

And make no mistake - this athlete is not a conservative or even close to center.

 
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You realize that many immigrants come from places where human, and civil rights are much worse than what we have in the states, right?  

Look, I don't want to minimize what folks of color have gone thru in our country.  But focusing on the negative 24/7 sometimes doesn't allow you to see any of the positive. That's the perspective of the first gen Americans I'm referring to.
These people are what Bill Maher calls "progressaphobes".  So caught up in the latest outrage that they've seen NONE of the progress we've made since the end of the civil war.  To them, America is just as racist now as it was pre Civil War.

 
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These people are what Bill Maher calls "progressaphobes".  So caught up in the latest outrage that they've seen NONE of the progress we've made since the end of the civil war.  To them, America is just as racist now as it was pre Civil War.
Maher has grown on me.  I like that he's not afraid to call things for what they are.

 
Maher has grown on me.  I like that he's not afraid to call things for what they are.
I have a love-hate relationship with him.  He was unbearable during the Trump years.

He's a dyed-in-the-wool lefty, for sure, but every once in a while he makes sense.  He typically loads up his panel with lefties and finds the dumbest conservative he can find and they all gang up on him.  

Make no mistake, though, he's not on our side one bit.  He might say some good things once in a while, but it's to advance the Democrat agenda, not defend Conservatives.

 
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I have a love-hate relationship with him.  He was unbearable during the Trump years.

He's a dyed-in-the-wool lefty, for sure, but every once in a while he makes sense.  Make no mistake, though, he's not on our side one bit.  He typically loads up his panel with lefties and finds the dumbest conservative he can find and they all gang up on him. 
Oh yea, I can't hardly listen to him.  He's essentially a shock jock and is all about ratings and hearing himself speak......but there are those nuggets.

 
These people are what Bill Maher calls "progressaphobes".  So caught up in the latest outrage that they've seen NONE of the progress we've made since the end of the civil war.  To them, America is just as racist now as it was pre Civil War.
I love how you think you know a big group of people feel and think. 

 
Here’s my problem with disrespecting the anthem and the flag.  Symbols and traditions matter.  They always have.  That is why we have them.  And that is why I was so insistent that the confederate flags and statues come down.  They were a big middle finger to millions of Americans who suffered and sacrificed fighting evil to make our present state as good as it is today.  That needs to be honored.

In 1944 my wife’s grandfather was shot down over Germany.  He never met his son (my wife’s father).  That loss has reverberated through the generations and still indirectly affects my wife to this day.  His honor flag is proudly displayed over our mantle.  It’s all we have of him - not even a photograph.  My father fought in WWII as well.  He was one of those guys who graduated high school and enlisted the very next day.  He survived the war but gave up what should have been the best years of his life.  I don’t have his flag but every time I see a flag I think of him.

The National Anthem is a brief moment in time where those sacrifices should be honored and respected.  It’s not a place for protests, grandstanding, or displays of anger towards the country.  It’s really that simple.  I personally view it as extremely disrespectful and I always will.  Quite honestly it makes my blood boil.

 
While I completely disagree with her stance and don’t love the fact that she’s representing a country she isn’t proud of what I do love is that we live in a country that allows for someone to act this way.  That’s freedom.  

No matter how I feel about her stance she has that right.  To me that’s a far bigger and more important statement then the one she thinks she making.  

 
Here’s my problem with disrespecting the anthem and the flag.  Symbols and traditions matter.  They always have.  That is why we have them.  And that is why I was so insistent that the confederate flags and statues come down.  They were a big middle finger to millions of Americans who suffered and sacrificed fighting evil to make our present state as good as it is today.  That needs to be honored.

In 1944 my wife’s grandfather was shot down over Germany.  He never met his son (my wife’s father).  That loss has reverberated through the generations and still indirectly affects my wife to this day.  His honor flag is proudly displayed over our mantle.  It’s all we have of him - not even a photograph.  My father fought in WWII as well.  He was one of those guys who graduated high school and enlisted the very next day.  He survived the war but gave up what should have been the best years of his life.  I don’t have his flag but every time I see a flag I think of him.

The National Anthem is a brief moment in time where those sacrifices should be honored and respected.  It’s not a place for protests, grandstanding, or displays of anger towards the country.  It’s really that simple.  I personally view it as extremely disrespectful and I always will.  Quite honestly it makes my blood boil.
I agree with this 1000% percent.

My step-grandfather fought in WWII as a partisan (He was from the old "Czechoslovakia"). He was captured and tortured by the Nazis but managed to escape right before they were about to kill him.  He came to America after WWII and became a US citizen and that was one of the proudest moments of his life.  He always used to remind us how good America was to him and his family and part of the reminder was the horror stories he would tell of the Nazis and how bad it was.  He was immensely proud of me when I enlisted in the Marines in the early 90's.

The flag (and anthem) is immensely personal to me too, and when people like these spoiled athletes disrespect the flag, I wish we could buy them a one-way ticket to the country of their choice.  They don't know how good they have it.  They complain how bad America is yet reap the rewards from it.  People like her don't know REAL hardship or struggle, IMO.  YOU'RE STANDING ON AN OLYMPIC PODIUM while you disrespect the USA.  What a hypocrite and disgrace to America.

I would say much stronger words about her but I don't want to get suspended.

 
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While I completely disagree with her stance and don’t love the fact that she’s representing a country she isn’t proud of what I do love is that we live in a country that allows for someone to act this way.  That’s freedom.  

No matter how I feel about her stance she has that right.  To me that’s a far bigger and more important statement then the one she thinks she making.  


I agree with this 1000% percent.

My step-grandfather fought in WWII as a partisan (He was from the old "Czechoslovakia"). He was captured and tortured by the Nazis but managed to escape right before they were about to kill him.  He came to America after WWII and became a US citizen and that was one of the proudest moments of his life.  He always used to remind us how good America was to him and his family and part of the reminder was the horror stories he would tell of the Nazis and how bad it was.  He was immensely proud of me when I enlisted in the Marines in the early 90's.

The flag (and anthem) is immensely personal to me too, and when people like these spoiled athletes disrespect the flag, I wish we could buy them a one-way ticket to the country of their choice.  They don't know how good they have it.  They complain how bad America is yet reap the rewards from it.  People like her don't know REAL hardship or struggle, IMO.  What a hypocrite and disgrace to America.

I would say much stronger words about her but I don't want to get suspended.
Can I agree with both of these

 
If you do it in America fine.   Not a fan but fine.  If you do it in Japan in front of the world then shame on you

 
I would have bet my house that one of the first Liberal response in here would have been about their right to protest rather than condemning the act of disrespect and divisiveness.  This is why we are screwed as a country.  If we can't at least agree on our core principles that are embodied in the flag and the anthem then I really don't see it getting better anytime soon.  The ties that bind a nation together are very tenuous, especially in a multi-cultural one like ours.  But hey - not worth arguing about I guess.  It is what it is.  Acts like this will just polarize sides even further and hasten the inevitable.  Just glad that I'll be fighting beside people like Paul Chelimo and not Gwen Berry.
What does the flag mean to you?  Like for me, a core principle is strong belief in the idea of freedom of expression.  Even when I don’t agree with what is being expressed.  Do you share this belief?  It’s right at the top for me.  

 
It’s her right. American’s get to speak how they want. 

When activists do this I just wish they can communicate very, very well as to why they chose to do this. It’s a big statement in my view you are very likely going to do a disservice to what point you are trying make if you aren’t prepared.

 
What does the flag mean to you?  Like for me, a core principle is strong belief in the idea of freedom of expression.  Even when I don’t agree with what is being expressed.  Do you share this belief?  It’s right at the top for me.  
What is it the left always says?  Oh, yeah, "Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism".

There are better ways to show your disagreement than flipping off 50% of the USA.  Maybe when she gets up on the podium next time, we play the sounds of someone taking a dump and flushing the toilet?  Let's see how she reacts to the disrespect.

 
What is it the left always says?  Oh, yeah, "Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism".

There are better ways to show your disagreement than flipping off 50% of the USA.  Maybe when she gets up on the podium next time, we play the sounds of someone taking a dump and flushing the toilet?  Let's see how she reacts to the disrespect.
I agree with that.  Where did I suggest she wasn’t to be criticized?

You are making a lot of assumptions here.  Like the assumption that she is targeting only certain groups with her protest.  Why 50%?  Who are those 50% particularly?  

 
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Maher has grown on me.  I like that he's not afraid to call things for what they are.
He's pretty much been the same dude the whole time.  

Seems like more are tolerating him more now because he doesn't have Trump to pick on so much.  

 
Who cares? This is a bit of an immature response isn't it? 

This is the political equivalent of "mommy, he did it first" .  Don't like something,  don't double down and do it too.  
Is it any less mature than “it’s my right!!!” so I’ll do what I want.

 
He's pretty much been the same dude the whole time.  

Seems like more are tolerating him more now because he doesn't have Trump to pick on so much.  
I think there's some truth to that. 

I also think he's become more popular with Republicans in general. Most of the times I hear about something Maher said (like on his ripping Facebook) it's from my Republican friends. :shrug:  

 
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I have a love-hate relationship with him.  He was unbearable during the Trump years.

He's a dyed-in-the-wool lefty, for sure, but every once in a while he makes sense.  He typically loads up his panel with lefties and finds the dumbest conservative he can find and they all gang up on him.  

Make no mistake, though, he's not on our side one bit.  He might say some good things once in a while, but it's to advance the Democrat agenda, not defend Conservatives.
important distinction- does he mainly invite and have on left leaning people, or does he invite a bunch for both sides and it's mostly people from the left who accept? 

 
Maher reminds me a bit of George Carlin, calls bull#### out and is what I would consider at their core a traditional social “liberal”, which frankly I’d consider myself. 

All that to say, both were more likely to call conservatives out for their illiberal bull#### than not…and liberals today exhibit the same behaviors just with different rallying cries.

 
I think there's some truth to that. 

I also think he's become more popular with Republicans in general. Most of the times I hear about something Maher said (like on his ripping Facebook) it's from my Republican friends. :shrug:  
I would be curious why that is, honestly.  I've watched him for many years, and don't think he's changed that much.  He does call Liberals out for having no spine, etc.  

My gut feeling is the previous years many people on the right might not have made it past the opening monologues and the Trump skewering, and now they are able to get the guest portion or the "new rules".  It seems to be the New Rules section that I have seen linked a bunch in these threads over the last couple months.  

 
Is it any less mature than “it’s my right!!!” so I’ll do what I want.
Slightly, but in the same ballpark.  

Mainly because I heard a ton about how we got the previous POTUS because a lot of people were tired of being looked down on, called racist, told their views were crap.  Great points, and I can see that, but now I see the same from the similar group of people - "no, lefties are racist, they hate America, they hate the flag" etc.  Odd, and IMO a pretty immature way to go about it.  

 
Slightly, but in the same ballpark.  

Mainly because I heard a ton about how we got the previous POTUS because a lot of people were tired of being looked down on, called racist, told their views were crap.  Great points, and I can see that, but now I see the same from the similar group of people - "no, lefties are racist, they hate America, they hate the flag" etc.  Odd, and IMO a pretty immature way to go about it.  
I also mostly agree with this, particularly in the broad context of “all lefties are this or that”.  Just like I disagree with all conservatives are “this or that”.

But someone who says racist #### is racist.

Someone who says “the flag doesn’t speak to me and never has” … doesn’t seem to love the flag and at best I’m sensing animosity towards it?

In our effort to not generalize we should still be able to call a spade a spade.

 

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