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Quitting my job (1 Viewer)

Keerock

Keerock

Footballguy
I have secured a new job and will be giving notice on Monday.  I actually like my current job, especially my team and co-workers... but I loathe my boss.  Bully, micromanager, terrible communicator.  Plus, in spite of at least a doubled workload and direct/indirect reports, I have not seen any comp increase/promotion.  Boss indicated late last year that he would "take care of the people who deliver", but during the last merit cycle I receive only a 2% bump (the review to go with the increase was glowing 4/5).

So... 2 questions:

1) What do I tell him when I give notice?  I know the traditional line is basically "moving on to a better opportunity and more $$", but I'm so tempted to indicate that it's basically due to him

2) Should I even consider staying if he offers more money/promotion?  There would HAVE to be changes in his management style, but not sure how to communicate those.

Anyway... TIA.  I'm 95% sure I want to go... but like I said... I will miss my team... and I have a lot invested in the company and their products.

 
I left my last job (which I loved,) because of the new boss. He was similar to what your boss sounds like; abusive, threatening, bad under pressure, indecisive, contradicting instructions, poor communicator, all of it. 

I went to the owner a few months before I quit to let them know. I felt it was my responsibility to let them know that he was a poor leader. They left him in place and I left. They threw the max salary and perks at me to try and keep me from leaving but at that point it was too late. A few months later they canned him. 

All the money in the world isn't worth dealing with bad leaders. It can ruin an entire company.  

About 5 years ago I read Jocko Willink's book, Extreme Ownership. That book changed my life. If it were me I would absolutely tell them its because of "him". Simply tell them why you think they he is a poor leader but dont make it personal. 

 
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Keerock said:
I have secured a new job and will be giving notice on Monday.  I actually like my current job, especially my team and co-workers... but I loathe my boss.  Bully, micromanager, terrible communicator.  Plus, in spite of at least a doubled workload and direct/indirect reports, I have not seen any comp increase/promotion.  Boss indicated late last year that he would "take care of the people who deliver", but during the last merit cycle I receive only a 2% bump (the review to go with the increase was glowing 4/5).

So... 2 questions:

1) What do I tell him when I give notice?  I know the traditional line is basically "moving on to a better opportunity and more $$", but I'm so tempted to indicate that it's basically due to him

2) Should I even consider staying if he offers more money/promotion?  There would HAVE to be changes in his management style, but not sure how to communicate those.

Anyway... TIA.  I'm 95% sure I want to go... but like I said... I will miss my team... and I have a lot invested in the company and their products.
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1.  Just say you have a new opportunity, and you appreciate all the time you have spent in the current job, and offer to help make the transition as smooth as possible.

2.  No.  Nothing good will come from that.

 
FairWarning said:
Even if they offer more, the reason you are leaving is still present.  Take the high road in case the new job doesn’t work out.
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I understand what and why you are saying that but "taking the high road" would be informing the business of their poor business decision to have this person in charge. Not telling them for fear that you selfishly need them if the new job doesnt work out is not very high roadish, imo. 

 
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I recently had an experience similar to yours. I quit last November and love my new job.

I gave the standard 2 weeks and my boss was overly nice and tried to convince me to stay. I told her I would consider it and get back to her at the end of the week. On Friday she asked me if I had thought about staying. I told her I had and gave her a ridiculous number for a new salary. She scoffed at it and told me that it was more than she made and there was no way they could do it. My last week was hell, she was way worse than usual. 

The best part is they didn't fill my position after I left. So she has to do my job and her job. In the last 8 months she has called or emailed me 8 times for help on doing certain tasks of my old job. I have yet to reply. So fun. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
I understand what and why you are saying that but "taking the high road" would be informing the business of their poor business decision to have this person in charge. Not telling them for fear that you selfishly need them if the new job doesnt work out, imo. 
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I agree, especially since you said you like your co-workers. It won't help you, but it might help them in the long run.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
I understand what and why you are saying that but "taking the high road" would be informing the business of their poor business decision to have this person in charge. Not telling them for fear that you selfishly need them if the new job doesnt work out, imo. 
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What we don’t know is if it’s two personalities that don’t get along, or if he’s a bad manager. The owner will usually side with the manager.

 
My profession is somewhat niche and when times are tough, my folks are usually the first ones to get jettisoned. I work in consulting and know that the head of my group (and a few others as well) will NEVER match a competing offer whatsoever. There are other managers in the company who will negotiate to keep staff, but why would you stay if something better awaits you? Familiarity? Lazy? Fear of change? I would caution anyone to not use a job offer as a negotiation tool and pursue what you you believe to be a better opportunity. I kind of think of employment like the premise of the show Quantum Leap. 

 
"People don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad bosses."

A Gallup poll of more 1 million employed U.S. workers concluded that the No. 1 reason people quit their jobs is a bad boss or immediate supervisor. 75% of workers who voluntarily left their jobs did so because of their bosses and not the position itself. Bad bosses are the No. 1 cause of unhappiness at work. "People leave managers not companies...in the end, turnover is mostly a manager issue."

The #1 thing i pulled from the OP that i think is relevant is the word:    "BULLY"
If your boss is just a micromanager, then i would say there is leeway to have an open discussion if the boss is willing to listen.   But the fact that the boss is also a bully, that seals the deal that any discussion about the real reason isn't going to go anywhere. (at least with him)         [i think the same point applies if the boss is a NARCISSIST, too.]

With a boss like that, make sure you have EVERYTHING you need before you give notice.  While i understand that you might have been there for many years, if you tell him the real reason, the company also might not want you to stick around and poison the rest of the well. 

 
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Keerock said:
I have secured a new job and will be giving notice on Monday.  I actually like my current job, especially my team and co-workers... but I loathe my boss.  Bully, micromanager, terrible communicator.  Plus, in spite of at least a doubled workload and direct/indirect reports, I have not seen any comp increase/promotion.  Boss indicated late last year that he would "take care of the people who deliver", but during the last merit cycle I receive only a 2% bump (the review to go with the increase was glowing 4/5).

So... 2 questions:

1) What do I tell him when I give notice?  I know the traditional line is basically "moving on to a better opportunity and more $$", but I'm so tempted to indicate that it's basically due to him

2) Should I even consider staying if he offers more money/promotion?  There would HAVE to be changes in his management style, but not sure how to communicate those.

Anyway... TIA.  I'm 95% sure I want to go... but like I said... I will miss my team... and I have a lot invested in the company and their products.
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if you think that how you quit will help the next person, g'ahead. if not, head held high, leave with love, you are being better, always being better

 
Keerock said:
I have secured a new job and will be giving notice on Monday.  I actually like my current job, especially my team and co-workers... but I loathe my boss.  Bully, micromanager, terrible communicator.  Plus, in spite of at least a doubled workload and direct/indirect reports, I have not seen any comp increase/promotion.  Boss indicated late last year that he would "take care of the people who deliver", but during the last merit cycle I receive only a 2% bump (the review to go with the increase was glowing 4/5).

So... 2 questions:

1) What do I tell him when I give notice?  I know the traditional line is basically "moving on to a better opportunity and more $$", but I'm so tempted to indicate that it's basically due to him

2) Should I even consider staying if he offers more money/promotion?  There would HAVE to be changes in his management style, but not sure how to communicate those.

Anyway... TIA.  I'm 95% sure I want to go... but like I said... I will miss my team... and I have a lot invested in the company and their products.
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A good leadership team knows that satisfaction with your direct manager is a key part of job satisfaction.  So assuming they offer you more money to stay and you decline, that will send the message that you want to send.

If they're a good leadership team, that is.  If they aren't, then it doesn't really matter how you send the message, does it?

Bottom line, I'd keep it simple if for no other reason than to avoid burning bridges.

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
So she's asking you to perform work (for a company you're no longer affliated with) w/o being compensated.....

:lmao:  
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Pretty much. Too be fair though, I did most of the work while I worked there and she took all the credit. So she probably thought/hoped things wouldn't change. 

What is the real reason behind the calls and emails is now she has to do all the presentations and data entry. She really likes the templates I use for these projects. This is my personal template not the companies. I am not giving them to anyone. 

 
belljr said:
You blame to boss in your HR exit interview
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This the best compromise imo. Nothing good will come from telling the boss himself he is awful, but the management should be aware of it costing them a good employee. Two reasons, they may change the reporting structure as part of their “please stay” offer. Also, it won’t get him fired tomorrow but it will be a strike against him in the minds of people who matter. 

 
Keerock said:
I have secured a new job and will be giving notice on Monday.  I actually like my current job, especially my team and co-workers... but I loathe my boss.  Bully, micromanager, terrible communicator.  Plus, in spite of at least a doubled workload and direct/indirect reports, I have not seen any comp increase/promotion.  Boss indicated late last year that he would "take care of the people who deliver", but during the last merit cycle I receive only a 2% bump (the review to go with the increase was glowing 4/5).

So... 2 questions:

1) What do I tell him when I give notice?  I know the traditional line is basically "moving on to a better opportunity and more $$", but I'm so tempted to indicate that it's basically due to him

2) Should I even consider staying if he offers more money/promotion?  There would HAVE to be changes in his management style, but not sure how to communicate those.

Anyway... TIA.  I'm 95% sure I want to go... but like I said... I will miss my team... and I have a lot invested in the company and their products.
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Congrats on the new opportunity!

Even though you would like to tell him off, for the long haul it is better to play nice.  Now in an HR exit interview you can provide "helpful feedback" but be sure to keep it professional.  Perhaps give examples that will let the HR person draw the conclusion you have.  Hardly ever worth burning a bridge.

For point 2, it is unlikely someone at the position (and likely age) is going to make a meaningful change.  More money and promotion is nice, but if the undercurrent is you can't stand your boss, that isn't likely to change.

Keep good relations with your old team, if the old boss ever moves on they may reach out to you for a reunion.

Good luck!

 
This was me about 1.5 years ago. Ahole boss who grew up with the big boss of our department. I had been there for 20 years. I went to the big boss saying with my kids being older now, this stagnant salary wasn't paying the bills any more and that I didn't want to leave but had no choice if pay didn't get bumped up. He discussed with ahole boss and they both came to me and indicated they would "work on it."  3 months. 6 months. End of fiscal year (which is always an excuse). Nada. So I started job hunting. Got an offer. The countered. New place counter-countered with an offer they couldn't touch. Done deal. Oh and it's still within the organization so basically it was just a department transfer. I work with two awesome bosses and much nicer people in general now. And the icing on the cake is I'm making more now than ahole boss is.  :lol:   Kicker is, if they had just given me the amount they countered with a year ago when I asked (which I had never done in my history there, btw) for it, I wouldn't have ever even started job hunting. Serves them right. 

All that to say, things work out like they're supposed to. Look out for you and your family. Good luck GB Kee!

 
As others have said - no direct feedback to the manager but definitely tell HR if they do an exit interview.  You don't have to totally blame the guy but if HR is doing their job they will want to hear about it before it becomes a pattern.

 
Keerock said:
I have secured a new job and will be giving notice on Monday.  I actually like my current job, especially my team and co-workers... but I loathe my boss.  Bully, micromanager, terrible communicator.  Plus, in spite of at least a doubled workload and direct/indirect reports, I have not seen any comp increase/promotion.  Boss indicated late last year that he would "take care of the people who deliver", but during the last merit cycle I receive only a 2% bump (the review to go with the increase was glowing 4/5).

So... 2 questions:

1) What do I tell him when I give notice?  I know the traditional line is basically "moving on to a better opportunity and more $$", but I'm so tempted to indicate that it's basically due to him

2) Should I even consider staying if he offers more money/promotion?  There would HAVE to be changes in his management style, but not sure how to communicate those.

Anyway... TIA.  I'm 95% sure I want to go... but like I said... I will miss my team... and I have a lot invested in the company and their products.
Click to expand...
Will your company do an exit interview? If so, who conducts that?

 
Keerock said:
I have secured a new job and will be giving notice on Monday.  I actually like my current job, especially my team and co-workers... but I loathe my boss.  Bully, micromanager, terrible communicator.  Plus, in spite of at least a doubled workload and direct/indirect reports, I have not seen any comp increase/promotion.  Boss indicated late last year that he would "take care of the people who deliver", but during the last merit cycle I receive only a 2% bump (the review to go with the increase was glowing 4/5).

So... 2 questions:

1) What do I tell him when I give notice?  I know the traditional line is basically "moving on to a better opportunity and more $$", but I'm so tempted to indicate that it's basically due to him

2) Should I even consider staying if he offers more money/promotion?  There would HAVE to be changes in his management style, but not sure how to communicate those.

Anyway... TIA.  I'm 95% sure I want to go... but like I said... I will miss my team... and I have a lot invested in the company and their products.
Click to expand...
same situation and I opted to stay a few months ago for the stability i had established for myself. in my many years of experience these management styles don't change much. they can fake it to meet your expectations in the short term, but they are who they are. as long as that person is your boss, no amount of money and title will change the way you feel imo. more money could change your perspective, of course. good luck kee.

edit: agree with everyone else, wouldn't bother with direct feedback, but definitnely tell hr in the exit interview if there is one.

 
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Keerock said:
I have secured a new job and will be giving notice on Monday.  I actually like my current job, especially my team and co-workers... but I loathe my boss.  Bully, micromanager, terrible communicator.  Plus, in spite of at least a doubled workload and direct/indirect reports, I have not seen any comp increase/promotion.  Boss indicated late last year that he would "take care of the people who deliver", but during the last merit cycle I receive only a 2% bump (the review to go with the increase was glowing 4/5).

So... 2 questions:

1) What do I tell him when I give notice?  I know the traditional line is basically "moving on to a better opportunity and more $$", but I'm so tempted to indicate that it's basically due to him

2) Should I even consider staying if he offers more money/promotion?  There would HAVE to be changes in his management style, but not sure how to communicate those.

Anyway... TIA.  I'm 95% sure I want to go... but like I said... I will miss my team... and I have a lot invested in the company and their products.
Click to expand...
1) Not worth it to tell it just to them, so with regards to your supervisor I'd just give the generic.  If they have an exit interview, that is where I'd lay out the reasons, dispassionately and factual.

2) No, once you indicate that you've been looking I think it is almost never a good idea to accept a counter.  The only way I'd accept it in this case is if you were no longer under your current supervisor, but it's likely just not worth it.

 
AAABatteries said:
As others have said - no direct feedback to the manager but definitely tell HR if they do an exit interview.  You don't have to totally blame the guy but if HR is doing their job they will want to hear about it before it becomes a pattern.
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If it were me I would not say anything to HR either.   Once you've made your mind up to leave the company just go.   There is no benefit to you telling HR anything other than "I enjoyed my time here and thanks for the opportunity"

 
Keerock said:
I have secured a new job and will be giving notice on Monday.  I actually like my current job, especially my team and co-workers... but I loathe my boss.  Bully, micromanager, terrible communicator.  Plus, in spite of at least a doubled workload and direct/indirect reports, I have not seen any comp increase/promotion.  Boss indicated late last year that he would "take care of the people who deliver", but during the last merit cycle I receive only a 2% bump (the review to go with the increase was glowing 4/5).

So... 2 questions:

1) What do I tell him when I give notice?  I know the traditional line is basically "moving on to a better opportunity and more $$", but I'm so tempted to indicate that it's basically due to him

2) Should I even consider staying if he offers more money/promotion?  There would HAVE to be changes in his management style, but not sure how to communicate those.

Anyway... TIA.  I'm 95% sure I want to go... but like I said... I will miss my team... and I have a lot invested in the company and their products.
Click to expand...
You never know what will happen so don't burn bridges.

 
Would just keep it to yourself or share during exit interview.  Like mentioned above don't burn bridges, you never know...

A co-worker of mine didn't like a new boss.  He felt he knew more than her (I think the big issue was that she was female) and wasn't right she made more than him.  He took a job that actually paid less than what he was making and made a big stink when he left.  Turns out he hates his new job, the post a different position at work that wouldn't report to his old boss.  He tried to come back but his departing words kept higher ups from signing off on him coming back.  Since then he has gone to 3 other places and anytime I talk to him he says he shouldn't have left...

 
Godsbrother said:
There is no benefit to you telling HR anything other than "I enjoyed my time here and thanks for the opportunity"
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The benefit is the immense satisfaction of telling the truth, getting it off your chest and onto a formal HR record. He may not witness the fallout, but it sure does feel good.

 
Godsbrother said:
If it were me I would not say anything to HR either.   Once you've made your mind up to leave the company just go.   There is no benefit to you telling HR anything other than "I enjoyed my time here and thanks for the opportunity"
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rascal said:
You never know what will happen so don't burn bridges.
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I disagree that there's no benefit but the safe route is probably to just leave.  As someone mentioned, he could help protect the team members he's leaving.  And to address the other post - not sure if you are implying that talking to HR would be burning bridges or just a general comment but if the company and HR are worth working for then they will take the feedback from Kee and keep it on file.  And I agree not to go nuclear with HR on the guy.  Just be factual - "I'm leaving because I felt like I could find a manager I could enjoy working for."  If they ask for more details then provide what you are comfortable with in a professional way.

 
Chris B. said:
The benefit is the immense satisfaction of telling the truth, getting it off your chest and onto a formal HR record. He may not witness the fallout, but it sure does feel good.
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Why not do it at a company happy hour? This way if it gets out of hand, he can say it was the booze.

 
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STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
I left my last job (which I loved,) because of the new boss. He was similar to what your boss sounds like; abusive, threatening, bad under pressure, indecisive, contradicting instructions, poor communicator, all of it. 

I went to the owner a few months before I quit to let them know. I felt it was my responsibility to let them know that he was a poor leader. They left him in place and I left. They threw the max salary and perks at me to try and keep me from leaving but at that point it was too late. A few months later they canned him. 

All the money in the world isn't worth dealing with bad leaders. It can ruin an entire company.  
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This is what's wrong with the post office.  They promote all the worst workers into management.  It get them off the workroom floor yes, but they never have people skills or any management skills. They also have no problem harassing the other workers once promoted.   

 
PIK95 said:
This is what's wrong with the post office.  They promote all the worst workers into management.  It get them off the workroom floor yes, but they never have people skills or any management skills. They also have no problem harassing the other workers once promoted.   
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The only way I can get someone out of a position above me (client) is to get them promoted even though they have no understanding of their current job nor any other.

 
Awesome advice here already. Micromanager can be fixed. ##### generally can't. 

IF you decide you want to give them a shot at countering, exaggerate the offer to a number that could make you tolerate the jerk boss if they meet it. If that number doesn't exist then just peacefully roll out in case you ever need the contacts again. I do like the idea of providing a couple tangible instances to HR on exit interview if they do that.. .just know it may get back to him/her. 

Sadly it takes stuff like this to get more than COLA with many companies these days.. which is frustrating. Then they wonder why they cant retail good talent. 

 
Thanks everyone... really appreciate the feedback.  Of course, after reading all your input, I recognize that keeping it civil/simple, not burning bridges, and foregoing any counter offers is the right thing to do.  Anger can make us think irrationally sometimes :)  

My new position is essentially the same, at a smaller scale (fewer direct reports, smaller infrastructure to support).  Title wise it's a "demotion", but I really don't care much about titles.  Comp wise I'll be much more appreciated :)  

 
Keerock said:
Thanks everyone... really appreciate the feedback.  Of course, after reading all your input, I recognize that keeping it civil/simple, not burning bridges, and foregoing any counter offers is the right thing to do.  Anger can make us think irrationally sometimes :)  

My new position is essentially the same, at a smaller scale (fewer direct reports, smaller infrastructure to support).  Title wise it's a "demotion", but I really don't care much about titles.  Comp wise I'll be much more appreciated :)  
Click to expand...
Admittedly, I used to be really obsessed with title. I've learned that the bottom line is far more important.

 
Keerock said:
Thanks everyone... really appreciate the feedback.  Of course, after reading all your input, I recognize that keeping it civil/simple, not burning bridges, and foregoing any counter offers is the right thing to do.  Anger can make us think irrationally sometimes :)  

My new position is essentially the same, at a smaller scale (fewer direct reports, smaller infrastructure to support).  Title wise it's a "demotion", but I really don't care much about titles.  Comp wise I'll be much more appreciated :)  
Click to expand...
Mine was a demotion in title as well. But about 25% more money, so no complaints from me. :lol:   Sounds like the pros far outweigh the cons for you. :thumbup:  

 
yak651 said:
That sounds nice but I've been around plenty of bad employees....but agree that a bad leader can ruin a lot of good employees
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Yea we all have and yes, it's a nice sentiment but not always realistic.

The tenet is more, take ownership of your actions, your responsibilities, your capabilities and do the right thing. If you treat your employee's the way you would want to be treated, if you're honest with them (good & bad), you stand to garner more production from them than if you're a jerk. I've been listening to Jocko for years and he's changed the way I approach my business life for sure.

 
beer 30 said:
Yea we all have and yes, it's a nice sentiment but not always realistic.

The tenet is more, take ownership of your actions, your responsibilities, your capabilities and do the right thing. If you treat your employee's the way you would want to be treated, if you're honest with them (good & bad), you stand to garner more production from them than if you're a jerk. I've been listening to Jocko for years and he's changed the way I approach my business life for sure.
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The one that rang truest to me was with leadership was never ask your employees to do something you aren't willing to do yourself. Back when I was a construction supervisor I never had to lift a finger. I could just bark orders and take notes. Just because I wasn't required to do physical work anymore I still did it when it was needed. If I saw a worker struggling I would help. When the **** really hit the fan I would put my notebook down, get my gloves and roll up my sleeves and get down and dirty. This earned the respect of my men and why I still get texts on Christmas and fathers day from them to this day, many years later. The feeling is mutual and they know this and its how we got **** done. 

 
Keerock said:
Thanks everyone... really appreciate the feedback.  Of course, after reading all your input, I recognize that keeping it civil/simple, not burning bridges, and foregoing any counter offers is the right thing to do.  Anger can make us think irrationally sometimes :)  
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I'm sure the people around you know exactly why you're leaving and who you're leaving.  This stuff isn't hard to figure out.

Osaurus said:
Admittedly, I used to be really obsessed with title. I've learned that the bottom line is far more important.
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I could care less what they call me.  Last time I changed positions I proposed Blame Acceptance Specialist.  HR didn't bite.  

 
here is what you do brohan this is an idea that i came up with myself you go in there and you say look so and so boss is a total micromanager and a bunch of hashtags and you say i will stay on the condition that i get a raise and trial by combat with the laroosh boss and you tell them that you each get one handheld weapon now here is where it gets interesting you are small and quick and your boss is a lardo so you want something small and easy to stab with and then you get all of your team members gathered around and they have to chant two men enter one man leaves while they put you in an office and when you come out and hear the sweet sounds of tina turner rocking we dont need another hero you know you are in there like swimwear take that to the bank brohan 

 
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SWC said:
here is what you do brohan this is an idea that i came up with myself you go in there and you say look so and so boss is a total micromanager and a bunch of hashtags and you say i will stay on the condition that i get a raise and trial by combat with the laroosh boss and you tell them that you each get one handheld weapon now here is where it gets interesting you are small and quick and your boss is a lardo so you want something small and easy to stab with and then you get all of your team members gathered around and they have to chant two men enter one man leaves while they put you in an office and when you come out and hear the sweet sounds of tina turner rocking we dont need another hero you know you are in there like swimwear take that to the bank brohan 
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Dude I have been saying in there like swimwear since 1989. I stole it from my best friend who said it when we found the swimming shorts in the 1989 sega master system game, Alf. 

I dont think its original or anything but Ive never once heard (or seen) somebody else use it 

 
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Reactions: SWC
i think i once read somewhere that 95% of the time, people leave jobs because of their direct manager.  take the high road here.  better opportunity…..and never accept a counter offer, they know you want to leave already.  

 
Congrats Keerock and please tell HR.  Is it really burning a bridge since you'd never go back to working for the crappy boss anyways?  Honestly it could help the team members you like so much out.  Being honest isn't burning a bridge imo unless you go nuclear.  

 
Pipes said:
Congrats Keerock and please tell HR.  Is it really burning a bridge since you'd never go back to working for the crappy boss anyways?  Honestly it could help the team members you like so much out.  Being honest isn't burning a bridge imo unless you go nuclear.  
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Agree with this.  Also, in my experience, bad bosses usually find a way to get themselves fired unless the leadership above said boss is bad as well. 

My only point above was that you won't change someone, so no use in getting any shots in.  It will do you no good professionally.  Do it all by the books if you want to file a grievance

 
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