FairWarning
Footballguy
I need to find out what is a good job vs a crappy job and how much will they need to get off the couch to work a 40 hour week.
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Jobs questions for the left (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter FairWarning
- Start date
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I get the feeling this is a thread because of me. 
BladeRunner
Footballguy
A "good job" is one where you have no experience, no skills but still make 100K+ a year.
Anything below that are the jobs only immigrants will take.
Mile High
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
Lol there are a few. Nothing personal.I get the feeling this is a thread because of me.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Mile High
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Are you saying there is a different threshold for people on the right not working vs. people on the left?
timschochet
Footballguy
Every November I get a large van, pick up 20 illegal immigrants at the San Diego border, and take them around to vote at several polling places. For this George Soros pays me $500,000 a year. I don’t have to work the rest of the year.
I would call this a good job.
I would call this a good job.
Mile High
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
I see far more excuse making from the left about what can’t be done. I say start with the D run cities, and people say it’s racism.
FairWarning
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
Mile High
Footballguy
Is it? They get to set on their couches and watch without being called out as part of the problems.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Well, then let's at least put a little context to what I was trying to say. (and to be fair, I think most jobs are crappy - I am not a jobs/career person).
We were talking about how everywhere we go, there seems to be hiring signs everywhere. We (I work at a busy fast food restaurant) haven't struggled getting workers ever to this level. We are constantly out of odd product items because the factories are struggling. There are signs up everywhere - restaurants, grocery stores, gas stations, etc.
I also admitted there could be dozens of reasons that this could be - laziness, covid, reaction of being cooped up for a year (people want to enjoy the summer and not work), poor working conditions, on and on.
My point was that we have to have a little bit of honest when we think about the jobs that are open, and that they are pretty crappy jobs where people aren't treated that well, and maybe a year off made people realize that or they were able to structure their expenses/lives so (talking a family here), one of the household didn't have to go back. Dunno.
ETA: in other words, I was pushing back on what I took the tone of your post to being "everybody is just lazy and too busy eating Cheetos".
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timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
In all seriousness-
@FairWarning’s objection to UBI is why I have my doubts it will ever pass in this country. It’s too much at odds with how we perceive ourselves as a hard working people, you earn what you get, etc. it’s not just capitalism, it’s the whole Protestant ethic thing which is ingrained into so many of us (including many of us who aren’t even Protestant). Having millions of people get paid for doing nothing, not because they’re personally destitute but for purely economic reasons, just does not sit well with many, and not just conservatives either. And it may never.
That being said, automation is threatening to lead us into a situation in which there are more people than jobs. UBI is one logical solution to that problem. If we reject it, we’re gonna need to find others.
@FairWarning’s objection to UBI is why I have my doubts it will ever pass in this country. It’s too much at odds with how we perceive ourselves as a hard working people, you earn what you get, etc. it’s not just capitalism, it’s the whole Protestant ethic thing which is ingrained into so many of us (including many of us who aren’t even Protestant). Having millions of people get paid for doing nothing, not because they’re personally destitute but for purely economic reasons, just does not sit well with many, and not just conservatives either. And it may never.
That being said, automation is threatening to lead us into a situation in which there are more people than jobs. UBI is one logical solution to that problem. If we reject it, we’re gonna need to find others.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Vs. sitting in an office counting your money and laughing while posting. I'd say you already got that job.
timschochet
Footballguy
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Somewhat related. Iceland cut its work week down to 36 hours and found greater happiness and no loss in productivity
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/06/1013348626/iceland-finds-major-success-moving-to-shorter-work-week
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/06/1013348626/iceland-finds-major-success-moving-to-shorter-work-week
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
And to piggy back on this, I believe what he is doing is equating what we are seeing now = UBI.
IMO we can't take a ton out of this crazy year and a half, and I think we are seeing all sorts of reasons people aren't returning, like I posted above. I think a decent % have a little extra $ because of covid and supplemental checks, and are finally able to get out and do something with it and enjoy the summer. We have kids signing off for 3-4 weeks b/c of vacations with their families. We didn't see that before.
moleculo
Footballguy
I think I heard somewhere (NPR maybe?) that a big part of the labor shortage is baby boomers took COVID as a reason to finally retire. Lots of folks have been holding on way longer than 65 and after getting a year off from COVID, just said " screw it, I'm not going back".
I don't have stats to back it up but I do know the elderly have not been retiring like they should for a while now...I think the collapse of 2008 maybe burned up some 401(k)s so they kept going, postponing retirement.
That's got to have an effect.
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djmich
Footballguy
What do you mean not treated well, like forced to put your face too close to a frying pan?
I think people making independent decisions like this is great. And if they can manage their expenses and are happier as a result that is even greater. And if wages rise as a result to get back to an employment equilibrium that is fine (understanding that the cost of living for everyone rises impacting those particularly at the lower end). But if all that is a basis to be unhappy about what others earn, creating envy based unhappiness and wanted to take what others earn so you can enjoy your family or eat more Cheetos...then that is not great.
I'm atheist, don't give a #### if you work, just don't take what I earn and complain you don't have enough you cheeto eating hippie.
Agree on automation and continue outsourcing to cheaper labor markets of what have traditionally been not "production" jobs...like accounting. I think the impacts will be big, meaning life, work and standards of living will look a lot different in 50yrs. There's lots of reasons to think that this will create negative impacts, because ALL change does. The obsolescence of the horse and buggy destroyed all the jobs associated with it, along with thousands of others things no longer produced...but are we lamenting that we have automobiles and iphone 18's and the improvement to lives that the progress has created? Its myopic to think of it singularly as this will mean less human jobs. Service sector should have meaningful growth. Cost of living / Living standards, particularly for will continue to crater with automation. The cost of a bananas may go up over time, but I know I can buy 10x the TV for 1/10th the price of 10yrs ago.
$140. New. With a Free Echo Dot. Automation and technology tide lifts all boats.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Answers from me on the initial question don't seem to be wanted....yet.
I can speak anecdotally to this though.....my new employer has 137 retirements in 2020. The average per year for the last 10 years has been in the 65-67 range. Weirdly enough, I JUST heard this in a townhall about "getting back to normal" as a company.
djmich
Footballguy
Makes sense to me. Interestingly it feels like to me I see a lot more elderly working that in the past. Not necessarily a pre/post covid thing and this is all perception based.
I also don't think its necessarily a bad thing or a good thing...depends a lot on the variables. Also people live longer and "good years have been extended" which requires different thinking. My dad retired at 65 and completely stopped working. Financially it was possible, but not a good decision. Health wise, there was no reason to not at least work part time and in fact I believe would have been beneficial.
The supply of workers has changed. The market hasn’t adjusted and conservatives just want to go back to the way it was instead of adjusting
djmich
Footballguy
I probably missed a bigger discussion on this. What exactly do conservatives want when you say they don't want to adjust? I'd think that a conservative would believe that in the case of a supply shortage wages will adjust up to achieve equilibrium. The equilibrium point may change as well as prices increase and that has a downward impact on demand.
All of that has impacts, some can be perceived as positive and/or negative.
moleculo
Footballguy
Scratch "conservatives" and replace with "business owners". Yes, I know there's a lot of overlap but their reluctance to adapt isn't political (imo).
djmich
Footballguy
Ya'll seem to try to be coming to some sort of conclusion that paints some group of people as "not well intended"? Or what exactly is the point?
What are you thoughts on the reluctance of first time homeowners to want to adapt to a 30% increase in the cost of housing?
The Commish
Footballguy
I tend to agree with what you're saying here moleculo. It isn't political. However, I HAVE noticed that in "day to day" living where things are progressing and changing, it tends to be "conservatives" who resist that change. The "back in my day" crowd if you will.
moleculo
Footballguy
Not sure what you are referring to with the top. I think my general point is this is supply/demand in action and not inherently political.
To part two - not sure how that's related. I understand why first time homeowners don't like prices exploding like they are....whats your point?
djmich
Footballguy
The last 10 posts are political as they reference "conservative". The dude, commish and you (unless you missed your alot of overlap between business owners and conservatives?)
Part two...is that it should be fairly obvious that business owners won't like increases to costs any more than homebuyers would. Alluding to this being a political resistance to change and progress is silly.
The General
Footballguy
say these are entry level positions.
Good job = health insurance, paid time off, allows you to cover rent, and save a bit each month
Crap job = none of those things
Good job = health insurance, paid time off, allows you to cover rent, and save a bit each month
Crap job = none of those things
moleculo
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I think a pod I was listening to put it well: a lot of places treat employees like cogs, not people.
On top of getting #####ed at by customers, places are taking away benefits, increasing hours, etc. on top of that there has been stuff coming out about huge employers tracking movement (Amazon, Wal-Mart) and automating firings.
Where I work, bonuses have been taken away, as have vacations. My wife is a veterinarian, and she doesn't get paid vacations and gets attitude if she does sign off or reminds them she is working 20+ more hours than they agreed on (really effecting her health physically and mentally). Her employer also recently told someone who's husband died and had a doctor note saying she can't work, that they would claim job abandonment is she didn't show up for work.
Stuff like that.
moleculo
Footballguy
That sucks. We're those temporary moves to get thru COVID?
My company cut 401(k) matching last year, and my previous employer implemented a 10% pay cut across the board in 2008. Both of those measures were rescinded after a year - I.e. temporary things to keep afloat.
If these changes were permanent, it's a great time to find a new job.
Taking away vacations is the exact opposite of what companies should be doing. Vacation and mental health days are more important than ever in the last year. Employers that do this are so short sighted. I honestly can't believe there are still companies out there that stilly think this way.
djmich
Footballguy
Agree on benefits, particularly for employees below $15/hr (in that it is crappy...holding aside if it is "ok")
Is your wife paid hourly? Its much harder for me to be concerned about the concept of non paid vacations for professionals as you are talking compensation levels where these things are "all together". So if she's paid $30/hr with no paid vacation or $29/hr with paid vacation...it gets to the same spot. Maybe they should offer her $1/hr less with paid vacation...everyone feels good.
The husband dying stuff and overall attitude of your wifes employer...terrible and I wish she had the opportunity to take her services to a better employer (I'm sure she would if there was not something limiting the decision).
FairWarning
Footballguy
Many are too lazy. I won’t disagree that most jobs are crappy. Some of that is on the worker also. There were a few who had referred to crappy jobs and unemployment was better. I know few sectors that are not hiring.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
At our store that happened quite a bit ago.
I should be clear after I posted that. vacations aren't gone, but they increased the threshold to qualify, and they started counting the week you did have off toward the average, so there have been a few that barely qualified one year, then worked identical hours but got the vacation taken away because the week they weren't work dropped them below the threshold. Plus just little things like only closing 2 days a year, increasing hours open on other holidays, never having a fun work party anymore, etc, etc.
I don't believe our place is an isolated thing. I get it, it's low entry work, but it definitely fosters an environment where it is now more about head down, and punching the time card vs actually feeling part of a team and being excited about where you work. There should be 0 surprise there is a ton of turnover or people aren't lining up to work.
Max Power
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
I had plenty of bad jobs in San Diego that also didn't keep up with the cost of living or the real estate market. Part of the reason I ended up leaving.
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-fish-
Footballguy
40% of Americans are considering quitting their jobs. Guess it's an epidemic of laziness and not a realization that quality of life may be more meaningful than slogging through a 40+ hour work week.
birth school work death
birth school work death
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I think there is truth to this, and it gets to my post in the thread about how our purchasing power has dropped, and now more and more people are busting their ### to barely make ends meet. I am sure thereare people thinking like that- why bust my ### to barely make ends meet vs staying at home to barely make ends meet?
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
in the style of "I didn't, why can't you?" posts, imo some of the opinions and posts about this topic have just a slight whiff of "f you, I am out here busting my 50hours a week, you need to get out here and do the same".
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