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The white house says the protests are about covid.
They NY Times didn't call it anti-dictatorship.
The first part of this comment makes it seem like you don't think freedom isn't anti-dictatorship. Is that the case?
Ok....their government is a dictatorship. Can you explain the meaningful difference you see or better yet, what you thought the relevance was of your initial post? I couldn't care less what our media is saying about it but it seems that you do. My opinion of that enterprise is widely documented on this site.
Shouting “Freedom” and other anti-government slogans, hundreds of Cubans took to the streets in cities around the country on Sunday to protest food and medicine shortages, in a remarkable eruption of discontent not seen in nearly 30 years.
I agree we don't need to intervene militarily, but diplomatically we need to support them. Ultimately it's up to the people within their own nation to determine their fate. This was always our problem in Afghanistan, we can't force our form of government or way of life on a country where the majority, or at least the majority willing to fight for it, don't agree with it. It appears that in Cuba the tide may be turning on the regime, but it's impossible to know for sure.
Can you describe the arguments being made in your area? All I have to go by is what I read from my wife's family and friends on SM and they are ALL OVER the place. A bunch are pissed at Biden for the sanctions placed on Cuba by the previous administration (who they voted for by the way). Others are saying that the Cuban citizens need to handle this themselves (but how does one do that in a dictatorship) and then others say more progress was made when sanctions were lifted under Obama and people got a taste of what it was like to have money in their pockets and what we are seeing today has been bubbling just under the surface ever since. I have no idea which narratives are true....maybe a bit of all of them?
In Miami, the arguments are also all over the place. Obama receive a record percentage of Cuban votes for a Democrat in 2008, and was almost 50-50 in 2012. His big mistake was mostly optics - attending and being photographed at a baseball game with Raul Castro soon after the terrorist attack in Brussels. In 2012, most Cubans favored ending the embargo (for the first time ever), but now a majority of Cubans have reverted to favoring the embargo.
I can't say I disagree. I have extended family arguing that the borders need to be completely sealed. That's not all that bizarre of a position until I'm reminded that they are direct benefactors and IN this country because they weren't sealed. "Sides" have let what I thought were rational people completely rot their brains. And best I can tell, none of them actually see the error in their logic. Now I have a bunch of them pissed at Biden for the sanctions that the Trump admin put on Cuba after THEY voted for Trump so he'd impose those very sanctions
We stand with the Cuban people and their clarion call for freedom and relief from the tragic grip of the pandemic and from the decades of repression and economic suffering to which they have been subjected by Cuba's authoritarian regimeekbeats said:
LOL
It's a fair criticism. All that repression, economic suffering, and authoritarianism didn't just materialize out of thin air. It's the same kind of authoritarianism that's been associated with communism everywhere it was tried. As the leader of the nation most responsible for defeating communism, and as somebody who himself was never really soft on communism, it's kind of odd for Biden to gloss over that point.
Nice example here. To Bernie, the problem is the US embargo, not Castro or communism. Good catch.
You're glossing over "to live in a democratic society", no?
Right, that's kind of my point here. Your complaint above feels more like "I don't like Bernie Sanders" than anything specific about the tweet in question. Is there anything in that specific tweet that is incorrect, in your view?
Do I really have to walk you through how "Actually, the real problem here is the US embargo" amounts to both deflection and whataboutism? Particularly coming from a guy who has been openly sympathetic to Castro and similar leaders for 40+ years?
But Bernie is correct that the embargo is a failed policy in Cuba. 60+ years. The reversals under Obama gave thousands of entrepreneurs a glimpse of capitalism, per some of my Cuban friends who have relatives in Cuba that were involved in tourism. The embargo just gives the Cuban government the same old excuse. Embargos are generally an ineffective strategy whereever they've been tried.
I agree.
I think you're trying too hard to find a complaint here. Nowhere does it say "Actually, the real problem here". He prefaces it with "Also, ...", as if a secondary point, separate from the first thought. And let's face it, he's 100% correct about the embargo being bad policy. More to the point, the US cannot wave a magic wand and change Cuba's government to "Democracy!", but we can end the embargo. In other words, the one thing we can do to help the Cuban people, we aren't doing. It's worth pointing out.
Well it’s not like I’m losing sleep over it. But I do find it interesting that they have gone out of their way in the last few days to not call the regime what we’ve always called them - Communist. There is a direct correlation between Communism and repression. Why not call it out, if for no other reason than to reinforce that capitalism works far better?
We routinely criticize repressive behavior by other governments. I wonder why that's so difficult for certain people on the left to do when it comes to Cuba. One of life's great mysteries I guess.
@IvanKaramazov is cleaning up in here. He's like the John Wick of the PSF. Or the Mr. Nobody.Just came in here to see what I expected to see.
Apologists trying to defend the tepid 'support' for people struggling for their freedom.
I'm confident we wouldn't have won our own freedom with attitudes like that.
Embarrassing.
Sad.
Also, Ivan more than holding his own against all of them
This porridge is too cold: Biden didn't use the word "communism" even while calling the Cuban government repressive! Sanders said we should end the embargo (a policy choice on which we all agree, by the way)!Just came in here to see what I expected to see.
Apologists trying to defend the tepid 'support' for people struggling for their freedom.
I'm confident we wouldn't have won our own freedom with attitudes like that.
Embarrassing.
Sad.
Also, Ivan more than holding his own against all of them
Problem is, the Left is pretty much empty on the topic of freedom.
So you have no criticism of the specific statements issued by anyone on the left in regard to this matter, just a general complaint that "the left is bad"?
I stand by my words.
Do you have any specific issues with any of the statements released by those on the left in regard to the recent protests in Cuba?
I don't see any complaints in any of your posts in this thread beyond "left bad".
Didn't use those words.I don't see any complaints in any of your posts in this thread beyond "left bad".
Edit: And that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.
"But it's true that All Lives Matter! Why are people getting criticized for saying so?"
Be honest. If Trump had issued the exact same statement as Biden or Sanders, most of the people in here criticizing would be applauding it. True or False?
Well, yeah. If you're going to criticize a communist government for behaving the way all communist governments in human history have behaved, maybe it would be worth mentioning that communism isn't very good.
