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I Wish We As Society Would Do Less Criticizing Just For Being a Member Of A Political Party (1 Viewer)

While I won't condone this type of behavior, it is a logical and somewhat-understandable extension when a large subset of Americans simply don't accept what are objective facts.  The truth has never been as obfuscated as it is right now, today.  At a certain point, after beating your head into a wall for years, someone may start to wonder if the "other side" is acting in bad faith, i.e. are "bad people".  At a certain point it goes beyond the pale of a misunderstanding and into a fundamentally different world.

I'm not saying that's how I see it, but I can understand why people might see it that way.
I think this is true.  

I can also see how Trump's 'seeming' support for racists and white nationalists could make some people more judgmental when viewing a Trump supporter.  These people might have difficulty in understanding that many Republican's support Trump for his policy.

 
I was really thinking of the fever swamps of the internet, not so much this forum.  But even here, we had a handful of people who couldn't discuss W without bringing up Goebbels.  At least one of those people is participating in this thread.  

If you don't remember that, no problem.  People tend to ignore bad behavior on their own side while maintaining laser-like focus on the bad behavior of people on the other side.  That's normal, and a good reason to get away from feeling like a member of tribe.  But your not remembering it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  
Agreed. I clearly remember Bush being called a fascist and a war criminal regularly on the internet. He did a speaking engagement in my city after he was president. I remember quite a bit of protesting and people wanting to cancel his talk. There is still quite a few people out there that think Bush should be tried for war crimes.

 
I haven't had a chance to read the whole piece yet, but I saw Matt Taibbi quote something on Twitter from his Substack today that really struck a chord with me and made me think of this thread.

As any married person knows, there are certain words you never say in a fight, because you'll still be living together when it's over. Americans, like it or not, are married to one another. That's not accomodationist talk, it's just fact.


The "how did it start" question is interesting academically but irrelevant practically. We gotta figure it out moving forward. We're not gonna solve the past.

 
Does the time period of this shift coincide with the rise of Trumpism?  Because that would be pretty consistent with my impression.  
 

Back when W was talking about “compassionate conservatism” I would have said Republicans have bad ideas but are not bad people.  I felt the same about McCain and Romney.  I feel differently now. 
I do too.  It’s the constant barrage endlessly of how patriotic they (and only they) are. For instance I have not seen a Biden sign for months, I still see Trump signs in yards, flags, truck decals…all that stuff I still see every day.  
 

I never saw that with Bush, Obama, Bush, or Clinton.  It’s constant, it’s antagonistic, and it speaks volumes to how the property owner identifies themselves.  They want everyone to know first and foremost that they are Trump supporters.   I don’t see many statues of Mary with the bathtubs anymore.  Those have been replaced largely by Trump merch.  

 
How many times have we seen a variation of this thread where the Trump haters demonstrate how blinded by hate they truly are?   I think it was @HellToupeethat said something like…It’s not enough that they hate Trump but they want to make sure everyone hates Trump.  

 
IMO it was building up to those feelings, and Trump was able to really tap into that and give it a voice and power.   I think people were angry and felt ignored before he came along, so it's not like he is to blame for that.  

I think another piece of the puzzle is that as we retreat to sides and teams, we become way more predictable with our votes ideals.   So things that people consider to be moral or life and death issues - abortion, guns, Covid anit-vaccinations, LBGTQ rights, etc.  are easier to predict and allows people to do stuff like "oh, you are a Dem - you must be for killing babies" or "you must be an anti-vaccer", etc..    Not sure if that thought swirl makes sense as I type it out.  

I do agree with your general sentiment, and I have stated that what I have felt as an erosion of empathy/compassion from the conservatives is a big reason I have stopped voting for that side in the last few years.  Compassionate conservatism was replaced with F your feelings along the way.  
The irony of course being that the Republicans are all about feelings.  Many feel Biden didn’t win.  No proof mind you, just all the feels.  

 
I do too.  It’s the constant barrage endlessly of how patriotic they (and only they) are. For instance I have not seen a Biden sign for months, I still see Trump signs in yards, flags, truck decals…all that stuff I still see every day.  
 

I never saw that with Bush, Obama, Bush, or Clinton.  It’s constant, it’s antagonistic, and it speaks volumes to how the property owner identifies themselves.  They want everyone to know first and foremost that they are Trump supporters.   I don’t see many statues of Mary with the bathtubs anymore.  Those have been replaced largely by Trump merch.  
Same here.  It's both bizarre and extremely disappointing.  Like most people, I was hoping that the Republicans would veer away from Trump after he lost and handed the Democrats a unified government.  Nope -- they really like Trump, for real.

 
 Ask yourself this - when was the last time you saw a group of Conservatives harassing a politico in public?  
Mitt Romney harassed in an airport, filmed and posted by the perpetrators. Trump supporters surrounding and penning in a Biden campaign bus at highway speeds, putting everyone in the vicinity at risk.    MTG publicly harassing AOC, even suggesting she should be locked up for not having sufficiently American ideas.  Trump supporters marching on our capitol, breaking into congressional chambers, tearing down barricades and assaulting police in the process.  Those are just off the top of my my head.  Do you have any hard ones?

 
Open carrying is legal where they did it.  When was the last abortion clinic bombed?  20 years ago?  Murdering in synagogues and churches?  Wtf are you talking about?

I feel like you’re taking crazy pills as well.
The Pitt synagogue shooter was a Trump supporter, murdered 11.

 
Mitt Romney harassed in an airport, filmed and posted by the perpetrators. Trump supporters surrounding and penning in a Biden campaign bus at highway speeds, putting everyone in the vicinity at risk.    MTG publicly harassing AOC, even suggesting she should be locked up for not having sufficiently American ideas.  Trump supporters marching on our capitol, breaking into congressional chambers, tearing down barricades and assaulting police in the process.  Those are just off the top of my my head.  Do you have any hard ones?
Steve Bannon calling for Fauci and Wray to be beheaded…

 
I do too.  It’s the constant barrage endlessly of how patriotic they (and only they) are. For instance I have not seen a Biden sign for months, I still see Trump signs in yards, flags, truck decals…all that stuff I still see every day.  
Do you really see lots of Trump merch/displays everywhere?

I live in the south, when I venture to the outer territories I see some Trump signs but what looks like a reasonable number of relics (like a handful across a 50 mile stretch).

I think you have to take into consideration that they are mostly on barns that have 30yr rusted Phillips66 signs and a bunch of other home goods oddly on display in the front yard so I'm not sure how much of the residual signage is about Trump or just organic.

 
Do you really see lots of Trump merch/displays everywhere?

I live in the south, when I venture to the outer territories I see some Trump signs but what looks like a reasonable number of relics (like a handful across a 50 mile stretch).

I think you have to take into consideration that they are mostly on barns that have 30yr rusted Phillips66 signs and a bunch of other home goods oddly on display in the front yard so I'm not sure how much of the residual signage is about Trump or just organic.
Backroad near here…guy had hay bales setup 4 on top 5 on the bottom each with a number and letter 2020 Trump.

he moved most of them but three from the bottom are still there…just says RUM now

 
Do you really see lots of Trump merch/displays everywhere?

I live in the south, when I venture to the outer territories I see some Trump signs but what looks like a reasonable number of relics (like a handful across a 50 mile stretch).

I think you have to take into consideration that they are mostly on barns that have 30yr rusted Phillips66 signs and a bunch of other home goods oddly on display in the front yard so I'm not sure how much of the residual signage is about Trump or just organic.
I live in rural Upper Michigan.  I see them multiple times every day. 

 
How many times have we seen a variation of this thread where the Trump haters demonstrate how blinded by hate they truly are?   I think it was @HellToupeethat said something like…It’s not enough that they hate Trump but they want to make sure everyone hates Trump.  
:goodposting:

Given the OP and just three pages later post after post about all Trumps and all Rebpubs are the EVIL.   

:lmao:

 
Mitt Romney harassed in an airport, filmed and posted by the perpetrators. Trump supporters surrounding and penning in a Biden campaign bus at highway speeds, putting everyone in the vicinity at risk.    MTG publicly harassing AOC, even suggesting she should be locked up for not having sufficiently American ideas.  Trump supporters marching on our capitol, breaking into congressional chambers, tearing down barricades and assaulting police in the process.  Those are just off the top of my my head.  Do you have any hard ones?
I hope you didn't pull a muscle reaching that hard.

I mean, what you posted is not even close to what the left has done.

 
I hope you didn't pull a muscle reaching that hard.

I mean, what you posted is not even close to what the left has done.
There's no point, it will turn into the version of the gun thread where people just lob examples back and forth of good guys with guns vs dangers of guns.  nobody will probably move from their position.  

I posted links of violence in the name of Tump and domestic terrorism.   I would guess if we dig we could come up with a laundry list like ek posted of people getting yelled at and threatened.   I don't think any number of examples would convince you or him otherwise.  

 
This might be the clearest example of how media manipulates people. If Breitbart was concerned with exposing political violence, then they would keep track of violence from the other side as well. But they are not. They just want to pit one side against the other and rile up the troops. And yes, left wing media does this exact same thing by tracking Trump's lies but not Biden's lies. It's terrible regardless of the side.
:lol:   not sure how I missed where that list came from.  0 surprise there that they would have a list like that handy. 

 
awe....poor bus. How about harassing Rand Paul and his wife openly out in the street after the RNC? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgHsPC96HBU

Neither side is pure. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can come to common ground. 
I was looking through, and it's no surprise how many acts of violence, threats, etc we could find just from the last year over masks as well.  

Agree on the bolded for sure.  

 
We can point fingers over who is more violent or whatever. All I can do is offer a very macro observation. 

My immediate family is 3 children all in their 40s and married & my parents in their 70's.

My parents are old fart republicans who watch fox news and repost stupid political memes on FB b/c they don't really understand how FB works. They live in a condo community with a bunch of old retirees and live for Bocci night and the tiki bar at the pool. 

My sister and I (I'm the oldest) swing republican, but are pretty agnostic when it comes to direct topics like abortion and gun control (neither of us own guns) and a little more staunch on things like illegal immigration b/c we live in a very heavy day labor town on Long Island. 

My brother, (the youngest) and his wife are very passionate Liberal Democrats. Both nurses, he just got a new degree which puts him at a Phd level or something, they live upstate and we rarely see them. 

You cannot have a conversation with him without him pulling something you say into a political debate. Its frankly exhausting having to play 3 moves ahead worrying about anything I say and overall I end up looking to avoid any contact b/c its frankly just not worth it. 

The real issue is with him and my parents. He is openly ruthless on them, having fights that leave my mother in tears and belittling them over and over. Now my father was a Marine Vietnam War veteran, so its not like he gets pushed around often. In his latest tirade, my parents are uneducated fools and their views are based in ignorance b/c they don't have college educations. And the latest is that my mother hates Harris because "she is jealous of such an accomplished woman." He constantly complains, "I cant believe these are the people who raised me" and considers them nothing but "old white racists." He screamed and yelled when Hillary lost "What am I going to tell my 2 daughters, that it's hopeless and a woman can never be president in this misogynistic Country"....they were 2 and 4 years old at the time. 

Now mind you....this is a kid who when younger failed out of community college. My parents had to rescue him from a drug den, and my father employed him on one of his route trucks for years until he finally decided to go to nursing school. 

Honestly, no one wants him around anymore. His energy and constant anger and contempt at the right must be exhausting.  


I don't have any stats over which side is more violent then the other. But I will say that what frustrates me the most about many on the left is their unwillingness to have an actual conversation. I look at replies to SM posts on certain topics and most of them from left leaning ideas are simple 1 sentence shut downs like "You need to educate yourself" or "Typical Trumpster" or "your privilege is showing" w/o any context or factual point to back it up. They argue on emotion —"You hurt me" or "Thats offensive to me" again with no context. Its like an easy out bc personal emotions dont have to be rooted in fact or truth, they just are and defending it is "thats how I felt and my feeling matter more then yours." Lastly, you dont see many right wing debates that start or end with that person screaming like a child or rolling around crying like they just got shot. You don't see left wingers getting shouted down by mobs chanting the same 3 words and preventing them from speaking. 

I'm glad that we can generally have a civil political discussion here on the boards, but outside its not like that. And I find those everyday people (not politicians or talking heads) that lean left are far less likely to want to have an adult discussion about our differences. There are plenty of far right wingers who tire me as well with their conspiracy theories and 'Murica F Yea! attitudes. But for this country to get solid again, the center has to come together and take some form of control.

 
awe....poor bus. How about harassing Rand Paul and his wife openly out in the street after the RNC? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgHsPC96HBU

Neither side is pure. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can come to common ground. 
 Re: bolded-  no one said that, certainly not me. And I couldn’t agree more with the sentence after the bolded.  

But my post was in response to him saying conservatives and the right don’t harass politicos.  I posted a recent example of them doing exactly that.  🤷🏻‍♂️  It’s really no more complicated then that.  

 
Mitt Romney harassed in an airport, filmed and posted by the perpetrators. Trump supporters surrounding and penning in a Biden campaign bus at highway speeds, putting everyone in the vicinity at risk.    MTG publicly harassing AOC, even suggesting she should be locked up for not having sufficiently American ideas.  Trump supporters marching on our capitol, breaking into congressional chambers, tearing down barricades and assaulting police in the process.  Those are just off the top of my my head.  Do you have any hard ones?
I hope you didn't pull a muscle reaching that hard.

I mean, what you posted is not even close to what the left has done.
The comparison has nothing to do with it Blade.  His post was literally……

On 7/14/2021 at 7:37 PM, ekbeats said:
 Ask yourself this - when was the last time you saw a group of Conservatives harassing a politico in public?  
@parrot and I both provided examples.  Neither of us made it a comparison.  

 
Oh blah and your "intimidation" that's a weak lame argument and I reject it.  You're allowed to carry guns so they do.  If that makes you weak in the knees, that's your problem, not theirs.   None of the "screaming" or "intimidation" or "harrass" is violence.  I know the left likes to paint it with that brush, but it just isn't. 

To take what I said and turn it somehow into me saying republicans never do anything wrong, well that's a move usually handled by a couple other posters on this board---we don't need a third I don't think.  Nothing is always...Can't believe I have to say that

So your self assessment might be on point regarding what you're taking.
Weird to ignore the word “kill” in what you quoted and only focus on “screaming” or “intimidation.”

 
I do too.  It’s the constant barrage endlessly of how patriotic they (and only they) are. For instance I have not seen a Biden sign for months, I still see Trump signs in yards, flags, truck decals…all that stuff I still see every day.  
 

I never saw that with Bush, Obama, Bush, or Clinton.  It’s constant, it’s antagonistic, and it speaks volumes to how the property owner identifies themselves.  They want everyone to know first and foremost that they are Trump supporters.   I don’t see many statues of Mary with the bathtubs anymore.  Those have been replaced largely by Trump merch.  
I saw a ton of Clinton and I'm in a very Trump area.     But Trump supporters are taking it to the next level.

That's cuz it's not about Trump.  

 
 Re: bolded-  no one said that, certainly not me. And I couldn’t agree more with the sentence after the bolded.  

But my post was in response to him saying conservatives and the right don’t harass politicos.  I posted a recent example of them doing exactly that.  🤷🏻‍♂️  It’s really no more complicated then that.  
my bad, I didnt see what you were responding to. 

I would say thats my biggest issue (and cause for my knee jerk reply) with politics and the people who defend whichever party, it their complete blindness or unwillingness to realize their party does the exact same "whatever."

Hypocrisy is alive and well in all of what we are discussing when it comes to politics 

 

 
Does the time period of this shift coincide with the rise of Trumpism?  Because that would be pretty consistent with my impression.  
 

Back when W was talking about “compassionate conservatism” I would have said Republicans have bad ideas but are not bad people.  I felt the same about McCain and Romney.  I feel differently now. 
Even though I disagree with Liz Cheney and Ben Sasse who are very conservative if they were to run in my district or state I  would consider voting for them. What would keep me from doing so is that I don’t want the GOP as the majority of both the House and Senate.  They voted for much in line with Trump’s agenda. Like Sasse said this is about the “weird adoration of one dude “who IMO is corrupt and evil.  That’s a big part of problem I have with the GOP. 

 
my bad, I didnt see what you were responding to. 

I would say thats my biggest issue (and cause for my knee jerk reply) with politics and the people who defend whichever party, it their complete blindness or unwillingness to realize their party does the exact same "whatever."

Hypocrisy is alive and well in all of what we are discussing when it comes to politics 

 
You and I are in complete alignment. 

 
Obama didn't help, ramming health care reform thru & rejecting Republican involvement. 
That's just flat out wrong. We went through normal order through committee. Took like ten months hashing and rehashing. Republicans put up goal line after goal line which Obama moved towards continually only to not get a single Republican vote in the end. It was delay tactics all the way followed by absolute non cooperation by Republicans. 

It was basically the modern rebirth of Lucy jerking the football away. Obama got slayed for continually trying to work with Republicans his first term. He put up entitlement reform in exchange for tax reform. Republicans took their toys and went home. 

It was only in Obama's second term that he finally saw the writing on the wall and went his own way. 

 
Um because those aren't violence?   Did you not understand rhe post?
If I (totally theoretically and only as an example) had a long gun legally in a grocery parking lot and started screaming down your ol lady I bet you wouldn't be quite so blase about whether it was violent. End of the interaction she would be terrified and tramatised. And that's plenty violent in my book.  

 
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If I (totally theoretically and only as an example) had a long gun legally in a grocery parking lot and started screaming down your ol lady I bet you wouldn't be quite so blase about whether it was violent. End of the interaction she would be terrified and tramatised. And that's plenty violent in my book.  
Right...You're a liberal on the left and you classify violence different than anyone else.  Problem is if this person did that, he broke no laws.  And while I understand your feelings would be hurt, that's not the same as actually committing violence.  If you want to expand the definition of violence to include when feelings are hurt, then yes, you're correct.

 
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That's just flat out wrong. We went through normal order through committee. Took like ten months hashing and rehashing. Republicans put up goal line after goal line which Obama moved towards continually only to not get a single Republican vote in the end. It was delay tactics all the way followed by absolute non cooperation by Republicans. 

It was basically the modern rebirth of Lucy jerking the football away. Obama got slayed for continually trying to work with Republicans his first term. He put up entitlement reform in exchange for tax reform. Republicans took their toys and went home. 

It was only in Obama's second term that he finally saw the writing on the wall and went his own way. 
That's not how I remember it.  I recall republicans posting forth lots of amendments only to be locked out.  "Elections have consequences."

ETA: I remember starting a thread on it back in the day - "Republican proposals ignored" or something like that.  That was back when I was conservative.  Either search sucks or the thread was purged (or both).

 
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I hope you didn't pull a muscle reaching that hard.

I mean, what you posted is not even close to what the left has done.
Maybe try understanding the question,  which was "when was the last time you saw a group of Conservatives harassing a politico in public?" the implication being that they don't do it. It wasn't a comparative question.  Actually it wasn't a question at all, it was an order "Ask yourself this..."  So I was just following orders.  But since you insist on comparing, remind me of the last time "the left" marched on and violently breached the capitol building while threatening to kill sitting politicians?    

ETA: or what dkp993 said.  

 
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That's not how I remember it.  I recall republicans posting forth lots of amendments only to be locked out.  "Elections have consequences."
The entire premise of the ACA was ignoring government run healthcare (medicare for all) or even a public option and retaining the private healthcare system. We started so far towards the conservative position it was ridiculous. The far left heritage foundation plan? Romneycare? 

Again I'm aware the conservative idea of compromise is do everything we want or nothing but dang. To view the ACA as ramming through the far left agenda is just not accurate. And ramming through took a almost year of negotiations? That's a mighty slow ram gb.    

 
Right...You're a liberal on the left and you classify violence different than anyone else.  Problem is if this person did that, he broke no laws.  And while I understand your feelings would be hurt, that's not the same as actually committing violence.  If you want to expand the definition of violence to include when feelings are hurt, then yes, you're correct.
Yeah. Ok. 

 
Funny how the thread has turned into a finger pointing match going back to multiple past administrations and "well you did this" and "but its because you did that" conversations.

This is why we will never get anywhere b/c everyone is focused on looking back and living in the past. 
Perfect illustration of Joe's initial post and the points made on the very first page of this thread....as predictable as the sun rising in the east.

 
That's not how I remember it.  I recall republicans posting forth lots of amendments only to be locked out.  "Elections have consequences."

ETA: I remember starting a thread on it back in the day - "Republican proposals ignored" or something like that.  That was back when I was conservative.  Either search sucks or the thread was purged (or both).
Did you look for in ffa?

 
Funny how the thread has turned into a finger pointing match going back to multiple past administrations and "well you did this" and "but its because you did that" conversations.

This is why we will never get anywhere b/c everyone is focused on looking back and living in the past. 
Funny how this is exactly what you're doing in this thread, ie following the bus post with the Rand Paul stuff.  

Talking about "poor bus".   Wtf dude.  

 
I hope you didn't pull a muscle reaching that hard.

I mean, what you posted is not even close to what the left has done.
Nah, like I said those were just off the top of my head.  I mean if I had been really digging at all I would have come up with the plot to kidnap a sitting governor and overthrow her state government for sure.  I guess I maybe could have weaseled out of that one by saying kidnapping doesn't necessarily constitute "harassing".  So there's that.

And today we have reports of even more right-wing choir boys just trying to peacefully coexist with people whose ideas they calmly and dispassionately disagree with.  

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1016844817/2-california-men-have-been-charged-with-plotting-to-bomb-a-democratic-building

 
How many times have we seen a variation of this thread where the Trump haters demonstrate how blinded by hate they truly are?   I think it was @HellToupeethat said something like…It’s not enough that they hate Trump but they want to make sure everyone hates Trump.  
I know a few on other boards who share this belief. 
This is not unique to the anti-Trump side of the equation by any stretch.  All one needs to do is spend 10 mins on another well known board (that shall not be named) and see how palpable the hate is for the left. It’s pervasive and all consuming.  

 
This is not unique to the anti-Trump side of the equation by any stretch.  All one needs to do is spend 10 mins on another well known board (that shall not be named) and see how palpable the hate is for the left. It’s pervasive and all consuming.  
We don't even need to go to another board.  I am sure there's a larger % there with the way you are talking, but I can name 5-10 posters here that qualify for the bolded.  

 
Funny how this is exactly what you're doing in this thread, ie following the bus post with the Rand Paul stuff.  

Talking about "poor bus".   Wtf dude.  
I actually apologized for that, I didn't realize the poster I quoted was using that link in defense of something else. Turns out we were basically defending the same issue. I took credit for a "knee-jerk post" there.  

As for the "poor bus" statement....I don't need to apologize for that. The video linked was a few trucks flying Trump flags driving in some type of formation around a campaign bus that was 3x the size of any of them. The video I linked was a politician and his wife trying to walk down the street and being surrounded and yelled at face to face. A little different when it comes to being in any type of danger. 

And (sure I guess you can say I'm pointing another finger at them) how many personal vehicles were physically surrounded, windows broken and everyday people threatened during the numerous riots? So no, I don't have any care some opposition supporters buzzed the tower of a campaign bus. 
 

 
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As for the "poor bus" statement....I don't need to apologize for that. The video linked was a few trucks flying Trump flags driving in some type of formation around a campaign bus that was 3x the size of any of them. The video I linked was a politician and his wife trying to walk down the street and being surrounded and yelled at face to face. A little different when it comes to being in any type of danger.
Yea, totally different type of danger walking down the street and driving on the highway.    You can yell at me on the sidewalk all day.  Don't mess with me going 60 mph. 

And to me, saying "poor bus", dehumanizes the couple dozen human beings inside that were probably terrified for their life.     

Screw those people messing with Paul and his family.  That's super lame. I'd be more scared nearly being run off the road though.  

Have a good weekend 👍

 

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