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Police alter evidence in murder case (1 Viewer)

Rich Conway

Footballguy
https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8xbq/police-are-telling-shotspotter-to-alter-evidence-from-gunshot-detecting-ai?utm_source=digg

Article describes how police change data to support their narrative regarding a case.  Apparently, until now, no one had questioned the ShotSpotter data.  Just more evidence in the pile that much of our previously unquestioned data related to criminal prosecutions are junk (e.g. drug-sniffing dogs, burn patterns in arson investigations, etc.).
Same as it ever was.

 
No excuse for that to happen.  I wish the left was this concerned with the other 2400 shootings in the city this year, 90% roughly are unsolved.
I don't really consider this a left/right thing.  This happens everywhere.  Prosecutors and police are more concerned with convictions than truth and justice.

Just FYI, the lead story isn't by any stretch the only incident where police coerced ShotSpotter to alter the data.

 
https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8xbq/police-are-telling-shotspotter-to-alter-evidence-from-gunshot-detecting-ai?utm_source=digg

Article describes how police change data to support their narrative regarding a case.  Apparently, until now, no one had questioned the ShotSpotter data.  Just more evidence in the pile that much of our previously unquestioned data related to criminal prosecutions are junk (e.g. drug-sniffing dogs, burn patterns in arson investigations, etc.).
I'm surprised this is "evidence".  I can see a system like this being used to help the police locate areas of interest to respond to.  But this provides no identification that points toward people/persons.

Most of all I'm disappointed that we need systems like this at all.  And in the case of Chicago we need them about 200x a weekend.  Awful.

 
No excuse for that to happen.  I wish the left was this concerned with the other 2400 shootings in the city this year, 90% roughly are unsolved.
I am not sure why everything is a left/right thing.   The shootings in Chicago and all over the country are is a huge problem and our elected officials from both parties at all levels of the government don't seem interested in finding solutions to resolve it.

 
I saw this story making the rounds yesterday, but I didn't dig into it very much.  I should go back and do so if I get the chance.  Without getting into the details on ShotSpotter specifically, it seems like stuff like this really should have gotten a lot more attention last summer when we were (theoretically) interested in CJ reform.

 
I am not sure why everything is a left/right thing.   The shootings in Chicago and all over the country are is a huge problem and our elected officials from both parties at all levels of the government don't seem interested in finding solutions to resolve it.
When one party runs the city for 90 straight years and haven’t done anything…who has run these cities for the past 50 years?  Maybe the citizens should defund the cronies in charge.

 
https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8xbq/police-are-telling-shotspotter-to-alter-evidence-from-gunshot-detecting-ai?utm_source=digg

Article describes how police change data to support their narrative regarding a case.  Apparently, until now, no one had questioned the ShotSpotter data.  Just more evidence in the pile that much of our previously unquestioned data related to criminal prosecutions are junk (e.g. drug-sniffing dogs, burn patterns in arson investigations, etc.).
I had never heard of ShotSpotter until a couple weeks back when I clicked on a random YouTube news story about shootings in Chicago and saw one of the devices explained. It's already bad enough that the city has to install these things all over the place due to the number of people getting shot up there. If the cops are routinely asking the SS company staff to edit the data the devices record like the article describes, and then that edited data is being used to justify arrests or prosecute people, that's a complete travesty of justice.

I think most police are good folks trying to do a thankless, dangerous job the right way, but stuff like this completely destroys their credibility, and a law enforcement system without credibility doesn't work. The police ought to be the people you can trust to do the right thing and that's obviously not the case in a lot of places around the country, unfortunately.

 
 and then that edited data is being used to justify arrests or prosecute people,
I just don't get how that can be used to justify anything.  It's not like they can voiceprint people with these things.  They locate possible shooting locations - great.  But beyond that I don't see how they do anything else technologically.

 
I'm surprised this is "evidence".  I can see a system like this being used to help the police locate areas of interest to respond to.  But this provides no identification that points toward people/persons.

Most of all I'm disappointed that we need systems like this at all.  And in the case of Chicago we need them about 200x a weekend.  Awful.
Right.  And it was mentioned in the article that ShotSpotter has been admitted in 190 cases but the technology never analyzed by an outside source.  Couldn't any of the defense attorneys in the previous 190 cases have challenged the technology?  Weren't the manual modifications made in the current case something that any competent defense attorney would come across?

On the surface, ShotSpotter seems like helpful new tech that will become more reliable in time.  Problems might arise when cops develop their own idea about someone's guilt and then try to make all the evidence match that theory. 

 
When one party runs the city for 90 straight years and haven’t done anything…who has run these cities for the past 50 years?  Maybe the citizens should defund the cronies in charge.
The problem goes beyond Chicago, it is rampant across the United States and I'm not sure how much of this can be solved by city government by itself.   

In order to fix the problem you have to understand the causes and all levels of government (including both parties) and community leaders need to work together.

Unfortunately it is always about demonizing and blaming each other which is why the problem is getting worse.   

 
The problem goes beyond Chicago, it is rampant across the United States and I'm not sure how much of this can be solved by city government by itself.   

In order to fix the problem you have to understand the causes and all levels of government (including both parties) and community leaders need to work together.

Unfortunately it is always about demonizing and blaming each other which is why the problem is getting worse.   
Who has more power in Illinois - the Chicago metro area or downstate?

 
Godsbrother said:
To stop shootings? I don’t think either has the power to do that alone but if the goal is to blame someone rather than fix the problem then choose whoever you want


Godsbrother said:
To stop shootings? I don’t think either has the power to do that alone but if the goal is to blame someone rather than fix the problem then choose whoever you want
To get things done.

 
So defund the police and don’t talk to the police.  Why have them?  Nice to see the mayors who thought this was a good idea have plenty of protection though.
If you think that the phrases "defund the police" and "don't talk to the police" are suggesting that the conclusory argument is that we shouldn't have police, then you haven't seriously taken any meaningful time to understand the point of each.* 

Here is what the phrases are essentially saying: 

1. Defund the police - it means let's re-organize the structures of police force and train other governmental service agencies to handle certain situations in conjunction with the police. For example, let's instead of sending 6 officers to a tense scene let's send 4 officers and a social worker and a mental health professional. It also means lets de-militarize the police forces so counties/municipalities/states aren't paying for the maintanence and upkeep of actual tanks. These steps should help curtail or better address situations and will ultimately mean less tax dollars going to police. 

TL;dr: Instead of "defund the police" think "restructure the police." 

2. Don't talk to the police - the fifth amendment offers us the right to remain silent and not be compelled to be a witness against ourselves. Put differently, we have a constitutional right not to have to admit we may have committed a crime. In my experience, it's always best to exercise this right when in doubt because there's a human factor/element to law enforcement. I'll give an anecdotal example as to how this can go wrong. I was hired in the moment to represent a person being accused of, essentially, child molest. He was going to be arrested and law enforcement wanted to talk to the person. The person also wanted to give their story. The interviewing detective was a law enforcement officer I had very positive prior experiences with and respected - and therefore, especially with me present and the interview being recorded, it would be straightforward and professional. So client did the interview. Client denied all wrongdoing and essentially profferred a sensible account of sitting on a couch with the child victim playing a game. At some point the detective said, "well, if [the child] was sitting next to you, obviously your legs were touching?" Person naturally replied in the affirmative. Fast forward then to the probable cause statement provided by the otherwise good/responsible officer that read, "[defendant] admitted in an interview to touching the child." This incident illustrates perfectly how even the most benign, innocent statement is subject to hyperbolic or mischaracterized gloss by law enforcement. As such, if one is under suspicion, he really is best served not talking to the police. This, of course, if a far cry from not calling the police if you are a witness to or a victim of a crime. Further, if somebody committed a crime, it's very likely a charge can be brought and a conviction be attained without a coerced or misrepresented confession and, therefore, it is in the public good that defendants not engage in custodial interrogation with law enforcement. 

Tl;dr: "Call the police if you witness a crime, you are trying to prevent a crime, or somebody is hurt. If the police think you may have committed a crime though you should exercisie your consitutional right to not be subjected to their questioning."

*I'll concede that they are bad names for a labeling/marketing perspective and can be confusing or misleading at first glance. 

 
I totally get your point Zow, but how many times are the police using that equipment?  I didn’t hear a big uproar about that until a cop put his knee on Floyd’s neck and killed him.  Many leaders who wanted to defund the police meant just that - cut back on police. Now, the tricky part is these people want to cut back - but not in their neighborhoods.  Why would that be?  You don’t scale back where it’s needed the most, IMO. 
 

the left did an awful job in naming DTP, that will always be used against them. 

 

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