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Simone Biles Withdraws From Competition - Thoughts? (1 Viewer)

Do You Feel More Criticism Or Praise Or Neither For Withdrawing From Olympics?

  • Much more Praise than Criticism

    Votes: 42 25.3%
  • A little more Praise than Criticism

    Votes: 23 13.9%
  • Neither Criticism nor Praise

    Votes: 66 39.8%
  • A little more Criticism than Praise

    Votes: 19 11.4%
  • Much more Criticism than Praise

    Votes: 16 9.6%

  • Total voters
    166

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Lots of talk about Simone Biles and the Olympics.

From ESPN:

"After further medical evaluation, Simone Biles has withdrawn from the final individual all-around competition at the Tokyo Olympic Games, in order to focus on her mental health," USA Gymnastics said in a statement on Wednesday. "We wholeheartedly support Simone's decision and applaud her bravery in prioritizing her well-being. Her courage shows, yet again, why she is a role model for so many."


Many have praised her for the decision. Some have criticized her for the decision. 

Wondering how folks here saw it.

 
I don't think anyone is faulting her for withdrawing because of whatever it is she's withdrawing for ..... but its the timing

Can you imagine Jordan or Tom Brady removing themselves in the middle of the second half of a game ?

She took an Olympic spot that could have been filled by someone else, went 2/3 of the way through then quit. She could/should have withdrawn 3 months ago 

 
Like I mentioned in another thread, I didn't know that Simone Biles existed until a few months ago when Olympics coverage started to ramp up.  So no axe to grind one way or the other.

I feel very bad for any athlete who worked that hard and put in that many hours to get to this point, only to have to withdraw.  That's terrible.  (Not the same thing of course, but as a marathoner I can relate.  It would suck to go through an 18-week training cycle and then wake up with a fever and chest congestion on the morning of the race).  

Pretty much every take I've read on Twitter has been terrible.  Either Biles is the greatest hero in American history, or she's an avatar of our national decline.  As opposed to simply a young person who didn't have her best day.  

 
I'll copy my thoughts from the FFA thread.

I’m by no means an expert but I do have a daughter that does competitive cheer (not gymnastics but a few similar stunts).  The look on Biles face of confusion during her vault would freak me out as a parent.  She definitely wasn’t there (for whatever reason) - I think her decision to not continue was probably a smart one.  She could have injured herself severely and there’s a good chance the US doesn’t even medal if she continued.

I think what the detractors are saying is she quit on the team.  I think given what we know and could see that this is offbase but I could see a scenario where that is a fair criticism.  But there’s nobody who knows the sport and watched her that would say she was ready to keep competing.  How many times does the announcer have to say “I’ve never seen Biles do X” before you say, “maybe she shouldn’t be out there”.  And it’s not like she did that on purpose - too dangerous.  I think the detractors just don’t really understand the circumstances well enough.

 
Can you imagine Jordan or Tom Brady removing themselves in the middle of the second half of a game ?
Bills fan checking in.  We had a player retire at halftime back in 2018.  He lives on in fan folklore as the butt of a thousand jokes, which seems appropriate to me.

(It's worth noting for the record that Davis retired at halftime during week 2.  The Bills got completely blown out in each of those games and frankly didn't look like they belonged on the same field with an NFL opponent.  Then Buffalo travelled to Minneapolis in week 3, crushed the Vikings in game feature "the hurdle," and the rest is history.  Maybe losing Vontae Davis was the ultimate in "addition by subtraction.") 

 
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I'll copy my thoughts from the FFA thread.

I’m by no means an expert but I do have a daughter that does competitive cheer (not gymnastics but a few similar stunts).  The look on Biles face of confusion during her vault would freak me out as a parent.  She definitely wasn’t there (for whatever reason) - I think her decision to not continue was probably a smart one.  She could have injured herself severely and there’s a good chance the US doesn’t even medal if she continued.

I think what the detractors are saying is she quit on the team.  I think given what we know and could see that this is offbase but I could see a scenario where that is a fair criticism.  But there’s nobody who knows the sport and watched her that would say she was ready to keep competing.  How many times does the announcer have to say “I’ve never seen Biles do X” before you say, “maybe she shouldn’t be out there”.  And it’s not like she did that on purpose - too dangerous.  I think the detractors just don’t really understand the circumstances well enough.
I was reading about this story this morning. I guess gymnasts get their version of the yips they call "the twisties". In their case they are spinning 15 feet in the air and not throwing the ball to 1st base so it's obviously dangerous.  

 
I'll put it another way.  If I were her coach or parent and saw what was going on, I would immediately have pulled her aside and told her I don't think she should continue.  For her safety and the good of the team. 

 
I don't think this was her plan.
I don't think it was either - but she's mentioned in past comments all the pressures she was feeling etc, so this also wasn't completely out of the blue I don't think

It also wasn't the plan of all her teammates to have the #1 gymnast in the world to withdraw from a non-physical injury in the middle of the Olympics 

 
I was reading about this story this morning. I guess gymnasts get their version of the yips they call "the twisties". In their case they are spinning 15 feet in the air and not throwing the ball to 1st base so it's obviously dangerous. 


A lot of these kids have certain skills that become a blocker for them - they can't do it, for whatever reason - sometimes it's physical (they just aren't good enough), sometimes they don't know how to do it and sometimes it's mental).  Obviously in all 3 scenarios it's never safe for them to continue.  Once they stop "throwing" a skill in practice the coaches will usually have to make them go back to square 1 for a period of time to show they are able to then do it. @The Commish and I have talked about the pressure of competitive cheer before and I imagine gymnastics is the same and I can only imagine how crazy Olympic level is.  These are very dangerous skills and just because we know that Biles didn't have an injury and is able to do the skills doesn't mean she should have continued.  Imagine if Steve Sax could have broken his neck while throwing the ball to first - would anybody have crapped on him for shutting it down?

 
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I don't think anyone is faulting her for withdrawing because of whatever it is she's withdrawing for ..... but its the timing

Can you imagine Jordan or Tom Brady removing themselves in the middle of the second half of a game ?

She took an Olympic spot that could have been filled by someone else, went 2/3 of the way through then quit. She could/should have withdrawn 3 months ago 
Maybe she wasn't having the issues then, weren't as bad, or the stress of the Olympics made them worse?  

 
I haven't kept up, but if she withdrew from the team activity and is competing in individual activities...my key question is why is she fit for one but not another.

If there's a good answer there then the decision is "clean" to me.

If not, then it seems like not a "team" thing to do.

 
I haven't kept up, but if she withdrew from the team activity and is competing in individual activities...my key question is why is she fit for one but not another.

If there's a good answer there then the decision is "clean" to me.

If not, then it seems like not a "team" thing to do.
I think they have already said she will not compete in the All-around.  My guess (and it's a guess) is that they are working with her in practice to get over her "yips".  Also, a couple of the individual events aren't as dangerous so it's possible she may give it a go in ones where there's less chance of a severe injury.

 
Maybe she wasn't having the issues then, weren't as bad, or the stress of the Olympics made them worse?  
I suspect a combination

Comparable person is Naomi Osaka .... she quit mid tournament but her problems had been there all along, they mounted up and she eventually had to address them. I'd bet Simone is similar, and that's not a knock on her at all. Again, I'm saying her team got hurt bigly by her quitting - and that's why she's being knocked so hard, quitting on her team mid-Olympics

 
From the people I talk to, it seems most have issue with the praise for quitting. 

I think Ben Shapiro has it about right as noted in the other thread.

https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1420345951152230407?s=20

Simone Biles isn't a cowardly villain for pulling out of the Olympics. She isn't a brave heroine for pulling out of the Olympics. We live in such an insanely polarized society that we can't just let people be people.

 
My thoughts are her mental health should be taken seriously and I dont feel she should be criticized for taking care of her mental health but I also dont think she should be praised. She basically cost another girl a spot on the team and her own team a chance at gold, something they worked hard training for years for. Imagine Tom Brady quitting the Super Bowl because of his mental health? He's be called soft for years.

 
I don't think it was either - but she's mentioned in past comments all the pressures she was feeling etc, so this also wasn't completely out of the blue I don't think

It also wasn't the plan of all her teammates to have the #1 gymnast in the world to withdraw from a non-physical injury in the middle of the Olympics 
I don't know what she said so can't really comment specifically there, but that someone in this position saying that they felt pressure seems normal to me. Who wouldn't feel pressure?

I believe she finished 1st in qualifying for the games so she earned the spot. The moment got too big.

Athletes talking about this openly does seem to be a more recent development, could be wrong there.

Her teammates supported her

 
Ideally, I want to vote neutral but had to go with a little more praise. Nobody would be criticizing her if she tore an ACL and had to drop out, but because it wasn't an injury you can see then she is going to be criticized by many. She should be treated the same either way. I give her credit for doing what is best for her and not continuing on just to avoid the criticism.

 
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I haven't kept up, but if she withdrew from the team activity and is competing in individual activities...my key question is why is she fit for one but not another.

If there's a good answer there then the decision is "clean" to me.

If not, then it seems like not a "team" thing to do.
I don’t think she has decided on individual events yet. Part of her reasoning for dropping out of the team event is because she didn’t drag her team down either. Essentially her replacement would give the team the better chance of winning.

 
Ideally, I want to vote neutral but had to go with a little more praise. Nobody would be criticizing her if she tore an ACL and had to drop out, but because it wasn't an injury you can see then she is going to be criticized by many. She should be treated the same either way. I give her credit for doing what is best for her, and not continuing on just to avoid the criticism.
Yes the praise comes from being honest about what is going on here.

 
The fact that people are making this into a racial or political issue and the social media slapfighting says a lot about the country and how many unhinged people we have that put way too much thought and energy in this type of story.  
 

The pressure got too much and she felt she could not perform at the level she expected of herself.  It happens.  It just normally does not happen to someone that has put herself or himself on a “GOAT” pedestal.  

 
Can you imagine Jordan or Tom Brady removing themselves in the middle of the second half of a game ?


Imagine Tom Brady quitting the Super Bowl because of his mental health? He's be called soft for years.
I don't think the mindset of NFL players is what we should be striving for.   

ETA:  The ideas of "playing through injuries" or ignoring your mental health because it will let your team down are not positive traits in my opinion.

 
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The fact that people are making this into a racial or political issue and the social media slapfighting says a lot about the country and how many unhinged people we have that put way too much thought and energy in this type of story.  

The pressure got too much and she felt she could not perform at the level she expected of herself.  It happens.  It just normally does not happen to someone that has put herself or himself on a “GOAT” pedestal.  
To be honest I hadn't really seen this, wasn't even aware it was in the Politics forum originally.

I have seen it as more of an old school faux sports tough guy thing.

It is a very big sports story for sure, she was one of the US stars coming in to the Olympics. I know nothing about Gymnastics but knew her name, one of the few athletes coming into the games that I was aware of, and thought she was doing tricks or jumps that no one else could even try.

 
Exactly what do you mean and what are you implying? 
Can't speak for joffer, but my perception is that criticism has come more from the right rather than the left (Ben Shapiro not withstanding).

People like Charlie Kirk:

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell

Charlie Kirk calls Simone Biles a "selfish sociopath" and a "shame to the country"

"We are raising a generation of weak people like Simone Biles"

He also said Simone Biles, "just gave a gift to the Russians."

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1420122875323985920 (video clip at link)

 
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I don't think the mindset of NFL players is what we should be striving for.   


Can you elaborate there on what you mean?

I have seen quite a few folks compare her to Brady. That seems as apt as I while I know nothing about gymnastics, I know she's seen as one of it not the greatest of all time. 

I think for lots of athletes, a Tom Brady type mindset is exactly what people are striving for. But maybe I'm not understanding what you mean. 

 
This country has become soft :shrug:

That being said if her mental well being could lead to her being injured or even kill her then I understand her position.

 
I said my peace in the Olympics thread on the FFA page.  But I will say I am 100% disappointed in her and I think shes a quitter.

 
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Can you elaborate there on what you mean?

I have seen quite a few folks compare her to Brady. That seems as apt as I while I know nothing about gymnastics, I know she's seen as one of it not the greatest of all time. 

I think for lots of athletes, a Tom Brady type mindset is exactly what people are striving for. But maybe I'm not understanding what you mean. 
Yeah, I tried to edit because I realized the original post was pretty vague.   I think the ideas of "playing through injuries" or ignoring your mental health because it will let your team down are not positive traits.  I don't want to speak specifically about Brady but there are many examples of NFL players getting shot up with painkillers to risk their health just to play in the big game.  Or hiding concussion symptoms to play, etc.  If we think of athletes as role madels, I think these are bad examples to set.  Biles's decision seems to me to be much more illustrative of the lessons we should be imparting to our young athletes.

 
Some forget that gymnastics is a dangerous sport and a game of inches. She is known for doing advanced routines that others won’t do adding to risk she takes every time she competes. If she doesn’t have confidence she can do it, that’s a serious health risk she is taking. Good on her for identifying this risk and prioritizing her mental and physical health.

 
I don't think anyone is faulting her for withdrawing because of whatever it is she's withdrawing for ..... but its the timing

Can you imagine Jordan or Tom Brady removing themselves in the middle of the second half of a game ?

She took an Olympic spot that could have been filled by someone else, went 2/3 of the way through then quit. She could/should have withdrawn 3 months ago 
Can you imagine Jordan or Brady playing with a crippling injury because they're expected to suck it up, only to bring the whole team down with them?

Had Biles kept going, she put herself and her team at a greater risk. Her risk is obvious - she lost all trust in herself and could've really gotten hurt.  Her team was at risk because her scores were so poor that she was hurting their chances at a medal by continuing.  

For her to have the guts to: 1 - admit she's having mental issues, and 2 - be able to step down off the biggest stage in her sport for the better of her team speaks volumes.  She even came back on the floor to support the team for the rest of the team competition.  

 
I think this is a situation where it's almost impossible for someone like me to have anything like an informed opinion.  My guess is that Simone Biles wasn't able to be the absolute best in the world at what she did for a decade without having a great deal of mental strength and toughness.  I'd be very surprised if anyone on this board can truthfully say that he or she has devoted as much effort to mastering a skill or craft as she has.  So I tend to think she's really the only expert in whether she was in the proper head space to compete.  

 
I tend to be critical of anyone who "quits" or just mails it in, especially when it results in other people (like teammates) suffering the consequences.

But in this case....while its still very unfortunate....I get it. These girls do INSANELY dangerous stuff (her most of all, as she does tricks that others can't even safely try) that requires more precision and focus and pretty much any other sport. If she's not focused and can't do what she needs to do,  the result isn't throwing a bad interception or missing a free throw. Its broken bones or worse.

She's gonna catch some heat because she's seen as the best ever (and to be fair, she has leaned into that). And her backing out does hurt a ton of people.  But at the end of the day, if she messes up badly enough, she maybe doesn't walk away from it. So I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.  No criticism, but no praise either.

 
The fact that people are making this into a racial or political issue and the social media slapfighting says a lot about the country and how many unhinged people we have that put way too much thought and energy in this type of story.  
 

The pressure got too much and she felt she could not perform at the level she expected of herself.  It happens.  It just normally does not happen to someone that has put herself or himself on a “GOAT” pedestal.  
This is absolutely not political in any way.  Agree 100%  btw voted neither praise nor criticism.  We really should use it to reflect on how poorly we handle mental health in this country.  

 
As someone who deals with anxiety and other "mental maladies", I want to sympathize, but I'm struggling to.  

If I'm feeling "off", I have the option of medication or breathing/meditation techniques.

If she's been dealing with "mental health" issues previous to this, then she should already have coping mechanisms in place and should have been able to mitigate whatever was going on.

Maybe it was a spur-of-the-moment thing where she didn't have time to medicate or try alternative methods, though.  That I don't know.

Still, I'm struggling with the timing of it all.  And, that said, I hope she gets help for whatever ails her and is able to rebound.

 
As someone who deals with anxiety and other "mental maladies", I want to sympathize, but I'm struggling to.  

If I'm feeling "off", I have the option of medication or breathing/meditation techniques.

If she's been dealing with "mental health" issues previous to this, then she should already have coping mechanisms in place and should have been able to mitigate whatever was going on.

Maybe it was a spur-of-the-moment thing where she didn't have time to medicate or try alternative methods, though.  That I don't know.

Still, I'm struggling with the timing of it all.  And, that said, I hope she gets help for whatever ails her and is able to rebound.
Yes, she should have timed her mental breakdown better.  Or seen the team doctor.  Oh wait...

 
Who does it hurt?


Her teammates for sure. I know the argument is gonna be "well, if she did poorly, she would have hurt them worse". 

Her sponsors that invested in her

The NBC machine that put so much marketing oomph behind her.

I know the last 2 aren't exactly sympathetic figures by any means. But they invested in her (and she has benefited from it significantly) and I'm pretty sure her backing out wasn't any part of their calculation.

Again....not criticizing (and I'm sympathetic to the idea of mental health being just as valid as physical health, and in this case.....they go hand in hand) but this isn't an "it only affects her" situation.  People were counting on her for various reasons and she certainly "let them down".

 
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I'll emphasize what I said earlier - if you follow or have followed this sport and watched the look on her face during her warmup vault and then her actual vault you would know that she was in no condition to compete.  It's really that simple - there is no argument otherwise.  I do think why/how she got to that point is not knowable for any of us - possibly even for her but you don't fake that and anybody saying she's a quitter just doesn't understand what they are talking about.

 
I'm reminded to "walk a mile in ones shoes".......but I question how long she's felt that way.  If there was an inkling of doubt in her head pre-Olympics; she should have bowed out.  I think it's a good thing she didn't fake an injury or not disclose her reason for leaving as her beeing truthful helps the narrative of reducing the stigma of mental health issues. 

 
A Kerri Strug she ain't.  
I think this is how it gets twisted.  We all react to someone overcoming adversity.  But then we somehow seem to act like it was something we were owed as spectators.  I might be the only male in this country who was kind of grossed out by the Kerri Strug thing in 1996.  I didn't think a coach who had his athletes best interests at heart should have let her compete.  And I question how much agency she  had as a 16 year old girl if her coach was telling her she could do it for the team.  

Simone Biles is 24.  She has done literally everything there is to do in her sport.  While her overcoming adversity would be another great story, it's not something she owes anybody, least of all us.  She doesn't need to prove anything and isn't obligated to prove anything.  And only she can really decide whether the potential reward of more athletic glory is worth it to her.  After all, she's won a lot.  She should know whether that's worth putting her through what she was going through.

 

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