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Ja’Marr Chase 08/09/21 - not creating separation at practice, not getting contested balls (1 Viewer)

Hot Sauce Guy

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
Higgins seeming like the better value if ADP holds:

“JA'MARR CHASE WR, CINCINNATI BENGALS

The Athletic's Paul Dehner Jr. writes Bengals No. 5 overall pick Ja'Marr Chase "has not shown as much separation as you’d hope" in training camp.

"His skill set is that unique," Dehner writes. "You see flashes of that early, but you also see somebody tentatively getting used to a new offense, new league and not playing football since January 2020. He has not shown as much separation as you’d hope, and the contested balls haven’t gone his way much, either." It's obviously very early into camp, especially for a 21-year-old who hasn't played competitive football in over a year, but all early signs point to Chase struggling in his transition to the NFL for a variety of reasons. That's not to say he won't simply get up to speed by the time the Bengals kick-off against the Vikings on September 12 -- there just might be a little more room for either Tee Higgins or Tyler Boyd to lead the team in targets than initially perceived. The overall WR21 in drafts right now, Chase's current ADP (43.6) at least warrants a second thought before locking him in at that range.”

:unsure:

 
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Not disagreeing with temper early expectations for Chase. This feels a lot like everyone going crazy for Amari Cooper and Kevin White in 2015 because the 2014 class went nuts in year 1. But this time last year, people were freaking out that Justin Jefferson was running with the 2s, and drooling over the insane Jalen Reagor camp hype. 

 
Call me a Boyd truther.  Maybe it's just that I'm looking through a points per 1st down lense and he's their guy on 3rd and short or maybe it's because I love a good ppr floor in my flex wr, but if Chase is going to take time to acclimate I see a lot of quick slot balls going Boyd's way.  Yes that Cin line is better but it's not like it could have been much worse and Burrow will be looking to his safety valve so he doesn't have to spend so much time in the dirt this year.

 
jtd13 said:
Not disagreeing with temper early expectations for Chase. This feels a lot like everyone going crazy for Amari Cooper and Kevin White in 2015 because the 2014 class went nuts in year 1. But this time last year, people were freaking out that Justin Jefferson was running with the 2s, and drooling over the insane Jalen Reagor camp hype. 
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Didn't Kevin White have his only good season as a rookie?

 
jtd13 said:
Not disagreeing with temper early expectations for Chase. This feels a lot like everyone going crazy for Amari Cooper and Kevin White in 2015 because the 2014 class went nuts in year 1. But this time last year, people were freaking out that Justin Jefferson was running with the 2s, and drooling over the insane Jalen Reagor camp hype. 
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I agree - it's early in the preseason. But reports about Higgins have all been like "faster, stronger, crisper routes", so it's hard not to at least pause for a moment to wonder if the wrong Bengal is being targeted early as the WR1. 

Chase still has plenty of time to get his legs under him & impress. Not discounting that as a possibility at all. 

Worth noting the year of NFL experience & 1/2 a year of chemistry with Burrow though. 

 
wgoldsph said:
Call me a Boyd truther.  Maybe it's just that I'm looking through a points per 1st down lense and he's their guy on 3rd and short or maybe it's because I love a good ppr floor in my flex wr, but if Chase is going to take time to acclimate I see a lot of quick slot balls going Boyd's way.  Yes that Cin line is better but it's not like it could have been much worse and Burrow will be looking to his safety valve so he doesn't have to spend so much time in the dirt this year.
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I also really like Boyd and he's a PPR redraft sleeper with an ADP somewhere below the South Pole. I kinda regret dealing him away in Dynasty 2 years ago. 

The Bengals are just stacked with talent. 

 
I disagree. He’s been called special by nearly every scout that watched him in college. He’s with his old college QB. He’s a rookie in his first camp. It’s been one week. Jefferson had the same issues, didn’t start until Week 3. Olibisi Johnson was starting last year in MN and the beat reporters were down on JJ.

eta* Eta to clean up castigating HSG for posting. Again, apologies.

 
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jtd13 said:
Not disagreeing with temper early expectations for Chase. This feels a lot like everyone going crazy for Amari Cooper and Kevin White in 2015 because the 2014 class went nuts in year 1. But this time last year, people were freaking out that Justin Jefferson was running with the 2s, and drooling over the insane Jalen Reagor camp hype. 
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wow. See my post. 
 

 
Rookie WRs usually struggle their first year in camp.  Add in the fact that he was off a year it might take awhile for Chase to get up to speed.

 
It certainly raises concerns from a redraft perspective when the rookie is already contending with established vets for targets.  Pile on that Burrow's knee is still recovering.   This bumps down Chase in my redraft rankings a few rounds.  

 
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wgoldsph said:
Didn't Kevin White have his only good season as a rookie?
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I'm too lazy to look it up, but i thought he basically missed his rookie season due to injury. So maybe he wasn't a good example.

Amari Cooper had a very good year for a rookie. But my memory is that it still felt like kind of a downer. 

 
jtd13 said:
I'm too lazy to look it up, but i thought he basically missed his rookie season due to injury. So maybe he wasn't a good example.

Amari Cooper had a very good year for a rookie. But my memory is that it still felt like kind of a downer. 
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I think Amari's very good career has been a downer. Ironically, based on testing and production, that's who Rotounderworld compares Chase to.

 
rockaction said:
I think Amari's very good career has been a downer. Ironically, based on testing and production, that's who Rotounderworld compares Chase to.
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I can see it, if Amari played more "bully ball". Stylistically I don't think they are very similar. Chase is more like a richer man's DJ Moore imo. 

 
rockaction said:
that was what I wanted to say, only I did it less artfully. 
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Still say you lost your edge once you became an "action"

rockaction said:
I think Amari's very good career has been a downer. Ironically, based on testing and production, that's who Rotounderworld compares Chase to.
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Cooper was supposed to be one of the best, and end up very good.  Funny how that's a downer to us, yet he's probably not complaining.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
you’re WAY out of line here.
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You've now started another thread about Chase/Higgins and have derailed the trade thread with the same issue. We get you have Higgins. I get the redraft implications. Two people pointing it out and a bunch of likes have now sort of lent credence to it.

I don't want any sort of fight. I sort of backpedaled and soft-pedaled it because you're a worthy contributor. But you've got this one wrong.

 
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TripItUp said:
It certainly raises concerns from a redraft perspective when the rookie is already contending with established vets for targets.  Pile on that Burrow's knee is still recovering.   This bumps down Chase in my redraft rankings a few rounds.  
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there used to be a commonly accepted philosophy of the “3rd year WR”

recent star rookies made that a bit of an anachronism (including Higgins fast start last year) but for some players it’s possible it still holds true.

not every rookie WR will come out of the gate gangbusters.

maybe that’ll be the case with Chase. And maybe it won’t. 

this early report isn’t promising, but it is early. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I’m telling you how it is. I was specifically asked to do player updates in their own topic. 

I followed the rules.

keep trolling though. It’s a good look. 
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Yes, I have 70,000 posts and have now become a troll or two people and six likes are trying to tell you something you're not getting.

You can choose. Choose wisely.

eta* Sorry, nine likes. There's a something off here, and I'm not sure it's us.

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
I was specifically asked to start player news update topics in their own topics.

Enjoy being wrong and rude. 👍🏼
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I saw some commentary about how major breaking news developments like Akers’s Achilles tear belong in their own topics and I completely agree with that.

Generic preseason ‘player x is struggling/crushing in camp’ feels like more of a fit for the player threads IMO.

I didn’t clock what specifically was requested of you but absent explicit instruction one way or the other, there’s a judgment call to be made of what deserves a major breaking news update handling and perhaps more detailed guidelines could be helpful. 

 
rockaction said:
Yes, I have 70,000 posts and have now become a troll or two people and six likes are trying to tell you something you're not getting.

You can choose. Choose wisely.

eta* Sorry, nine likes. There's a something off here, and I'm not sure it's us.
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I was going to update the existing topic & literally as I was about to do that I rec’d a PM from Joe B asking to do player updates this way.

so I complied with his request.

it’s that simple. 

 
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EthnicFury said:
I saw some commentary about how major breaking news developments like Akers’s Achilles tear belong in their own topics and I completely agree with that.

Generic preseason ‘player x is struggling/crushing in camp’ feels like more of a fit for the player threads IMO.

I didn’t clock what specifically was requested of you but absent explicit instruction one way or the other, there’s a judgment call to be made of what deserves a major breaking news update handling and perhaps more detailed guidelines could be helpful. 
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Player updates.

that’s the request. 

think: Rotoworld. 
 

so glad I got to be the scapegoat for the new preferred/requested style though. Feels great. 👍🏼

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
You’re trolling me right now. Over and over again. Accusing me of starting this topic only because I have Higgins. 

I was going to update the existing topic & literally as I was about to do that I rec’d a PM from Joe B asking to do player updates this way.

so I complied with his request. 

Who GAF how many likes? That’s a pathetic measure of your self-worth, bro. 

So you can stop trolling me any time now, and stop ruining this topic with your crap. 
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Evs, dude.

eta* not my likes I'm referring to, by the way. But you do you.

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Player updates.

that’s the request. 

think: Rotoworld. 
 

so glad I got to be the scapegoat for the new preferred/requested style though. Feels great. 👍🏼
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So like every Faust post would be its own thread? Sounds like an absolute mess.

IDK if it’s an issue of misguided instructions or misunderstood instructions but that sounds like a total disaster. If that’s not on you that’s not on you—I don’t mean this as a personal attack, I was just commenting on what feels like it’d be a navigable message board or not.

 
EthnicFury said:
So like every Faust post would be its own thread? Sounds like an absolute mess.
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Yes, exactly that. I made that very comment in response to Joe.

EthnicFury said:
IDK if it’s an issue of misguided instructions or misunderstood instructions but that sounds like a total disaster. If that’s not on you that’s not on you—I don’t mean this as a personal attack, I was just commenting on what feels like it’d be a navigable message board or not.
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not an issue of misunderstood instructions. 

Faust specifically came up as an example. I am not misunderstanding the instructions in the slightest, I assure you. My comprehension is excellent, and I follow instructions well. 

 
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I got a similar PM from Joe. I did not interpret it as "every Faust post should be its own thread". I interpreted it as posting legit stories as separate topics rather than in the player threads. Like most things, good judgment is required.

I think Akers' injury is a good example where a separate thread was appropriate. I don't really think every player struggling a week into training camp warrants a new topic. :shrug:  

 
Just Win Baby said:
I got a similar PM from Joe. I did not interpret it as "every Faust post should be its own thread". I interpreted it as posting legit stories as separate topics rather than in the player threads. Like most things, good judgment is required.

I think Akers' injury is a good example where a separate thread was appropriate. I don't really think every player struggling a week into training camp warrants a new topic. :shrug:  
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Joe specifically used Faust as an example.

i will let Joe speak to that if he wants to. Because the message was sent privately, I will respect that and not reveal things specifically said in the conversation. That’s up to Joe.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Well this has been a delightful experiment. 

so happy I took the time to share the update with everyone. 
 

:kicksrock:
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Dude, allow me to apologize for myself. I was trying to backpedal. That probably wasn't enough. Please accept my apologies. Driving content is a good thing.

eta* edited to make sure it's just a full apology with no caveats. No bones. Just sorry.

 
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EthnicFury said:
So like every Faust post would be its own thread? Sounds like an absolute mess.

IDK if it’s an issue of misguided instructions or misunderstood instructions but that sounds like a total disaster. If that’s not on you that’s not on you—I don’t mean this as a personal attack, I was just commenting on what feels like it’d be a navigable message board or not.
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I think you were right in your first post. It’s supposed to be only for major breaking news so it doesn’t get lost in that thread. Anyway, I don’t think HSG had any nefarious motives, maybe just misunderstood a bit. 

 
As far as this “news” I wouldn’t say it’s nothing to worry about, but I don’t think we should over-react to it either. It’s literally the first week of camp and a player that sat out 2020. I wouldn’t be shocked if the next Roto update is he’s tearing it up.

 
rockaction said:
Dude, allow me to apologize for myself. I was trying to backpedal. That probably wasn't enough. Please accept my apologies. Driving content is a good thing.

eta* edited to make sure it's just a full apology with no caveats. No bones. Just sorry.
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We’re good my friend. Things happen.  I appreciate that & of course accept. 

Let’s move on to football. We’ve all got drafts to prepare for. :)  

 
Why are new posts such a big deal to people around here? How hard is it to click on one, read or move to the next? skip it? Geez. And yes, I'm a little bummed to hear he's been struggling, but man its too early to panic. This kid has the goods, no way he's suddenly lost them. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I think you were right in your first post. It’s supposed to be only for major breaking news so it doesn’t get lost in that thread. Anyway, I don’t think HSG had any nefarious motives, maybe just misunderstood a bit. 
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I didn’t have nefarious motives, but I didn’t misunderstand.

New topics for “player updates”, like Rotoworld. Get away from updating individual player threads. 

hard to misunderstand that. :shrug:  

 
ffmail4me said:
Why are new posts such a big deal to people around here? How hard is it to click on one, read or move to the next? skip it? Geez. And yes, I'm a little bummed to hear he's been struggling, but man its too early to panic. This kid has the goods, no way he's suddenly lost them. 
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Some WRs take longer to adapt than others & he hasn’t played a meaningful snap since what, January?

its early. This could be much ado about nothing. But it was reported as slightly more than nothing, so I shared it. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Some WRs take longer to adapt than others & he hasn’t played a meaningful snap since what, January?

its early. This could be much ado about nothing. But it was reported as slightly more than nothing, so I shared it. 
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And I appreciate when anyone posts a new thread about players we may be invested in.  :shrug:

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I didn’t have nefarious motives, but I didn’t misunderstand.

New topics for “player updates”, like Rotoworld. Get away from updating individual player threads. 

hard to misunderstand that. :shrug:  
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I’m going by what Joe has said on the board many times about breaking news, and I don’t know what he said privately to you.

 I hope you’re misunderstanding because I echo the comments that the board would be unreadable if that was the new approach. Things would get lost so fast as they tumble down the pages. It doesn’t make sense.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I'll just say it...

These one-off threads highlighting the struggles of camp participants are completely unnecessary when we already have perfectly good threads dedicated to the same player. 

Case in point. This can all be discussed in the pre-existing Ja'Marr Chase thread.
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Thanks Andy,

We're going to try more specific threads.

I hate that the old threads aren't descriptive and don't give the reader any idea.

Darren Waller for instance. The news is that he's missed time but Gruden thinks he'll be ok and the discussion I'd hope for is how folks are feeling. So I think to discuss him being out, a thread titled: "LV TE Darren Waller 8.9.21 - Missed Last 5 Practices - How Concerned?"

I think that's way better than a thread titled: "Darren Waller, TE- the 2nd best te in fantasy"

That's my only thought.

The guys that prefer a title that is "Darren Waller, TE- the 2nd best te in fantasy" to me would be Rotoworld just listing a name of players with no headline. You want to know what the thread is about.

Thanks for the help there.  

 
Just Win Baby said:
I got a similar PM from Joe. I did not interpret it as "every Faust post should be its own thread". I interpreted it as posting legit stories as separate topics rather than in the player threads. Like most things, good judgment is required.

I think Akers' injury is a good example where a separate thread was appropriate. I don't really think every player struggling a week into training camp warrants a new topic. :shrug:  
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For sure. 

It's creating more threads that are more specific and not lumping everything into one giant thread with no title or even worse, a title that is not accurate. Thanks. 

 
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