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Personality Crisis - On Intersectionality And Social Modernity (1 Viewer)

rockaction

Footballguy
And you're a prima ballerina on a spring afternoon - Whoo Whoo Whoo Whoo Whoo Whoo
Changin' into the wolfman howlin' at the moon - Owooo - 
New York Dolls "Personality Crisis" 

Intersectionality: A Definition and Basic Understanding 

Time has come friends, to discuss intersectionality and its effects on the modern self. What is intersectionality? Intersectionality, as a concept, is a broad one, but is predicted on the idea of dispossessed classes and one's identity. It posits that certain qualities make up the self, and as we move through those qualities, that the self becomes either more or less dispossessed or oppressed within a heretofore dominant culture. The dominant culture, seen as male, heterosexual, white, European, able-bodied, cisgender (comfortable with the role assigned due to sex at birth), is contrasted against the oppressed female, darker, non-European, differently-abled, transgender qualities in persons. The self, in this construct, is a manifestation of all the differing qualities either assigned at birth or learned by role and position within society. The further one moves away from dominant culture, the more dispossessed of both earthly and spiritual equality within our Western systems. 

That is the basic theory behind intersectionality. That within Enlightenment-influenced materialist cultures, there is a culture of domination and subjugation, and one generally need look no further than one's characteristics in order to determine who is a winner and who is a loser within our culture. 

This intersectionality, it is argued, is necessarily understood in order to fully contemplate the equality of our culture and society for all beings. If one is a "black lesbian mother warrior poet," like Audrey Lorde once described herself, one has a set of characteristics or leanings that give a person their unique status within a particular society. Her blackness and lesbianism, not to mention her femaleness and role as mother and artist help define her against the dominant culture and present a different set a characteristics by which she should be viewed when viewed within the complex context of society. 

Intersectionality and Society: A Primer 

It therefore stands to reason that intersectionality posits that each characteristic and perspective is weighted in terms of how much of the dominant culture one is subjected to when one's qualities differ from that of the dominant culture. Those who have the qualities of the dispossessed or oppressed classes bring their own perspectives to bear on the dominant culture. It is through these qualities that they identify themselves, qualities that are traditionally thought of as group qualities (thus the name "group identity") and those qualities often thought of as individualized (personal sovereignty issues). What this presupposes, then, is that society is made up of both individual characteristics and group characteristics, depending on the topic at hand, often at times moving from individual to group, and group back to individual in heartbeat, often within the same conversation, often within the same postulation. The famous modern phrase, "As a woman, I..." is a perfect example of this. One talks about a group identity and then assigns one's self a personal characteristic as a member of a group's identity. "As a black man, I..." Again, an individual conclusion and postulated characteristic stemming from the acceptance of the membership as a group within a dominant culture, especially considering what that membership of a group means within the dominant culture. We no longer speak as citizens, as friends, Romans, countrymen. We speak of gay, white, transgender personas, each brining their individual experience to bear within society's framework. 

So that is basically where we stand. Individual characteristics place us within a group identity, and we therefore can draw conclusions about the individual through the group identity's placement within the dominant framework of the dominant culture. 

Intersectionality and Politics, Then: 

From intersectionality and society to intersectionality and politics we see but a small jump. The pluralism of the twentieth century devolved or evolved government from the state of the individual conscience to the state of the political pressure group. Bear with me: In the nineteenth century, government was thought of on an individual and autonomous level. Autonomy, as described in the Stanford Encyclopedia Of Philosophy is "an idea that is generally understood to refer to the capacity to be one’s own person, to live one’s life according to reasons and motives that are taken as one’s own and not the product of manipulative or distorting external forces, to be in this way independent...[a]utonomy has traditionally been thought to connote independence and hence to reflect assumptions of individualism in both moral thinking and designations of political status. For this reason, certain philosophical movements, such as certain strains of feminism, have resisted seeing autonomy as a value." 

For a fuller discussion of autonomy as political principle, see https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/autonomy-moral/

Pluralism, on the other hand is the exact opposite. Pluralism holds that "liberal democracies power is (or should be) dispersed among a variety of economic and ideological pressure groups and is not (or should not be) held by a single elite or group of elites. Pluralism assumes that diversity is beneficial to society and that autonomy should be enjoyed by disparate functional or cultural groups within a society, including religious groups, trade unions, professional organizations, and ethnic minorities." https://www.britannica.com/topic/pluralism-politics

In other words, political pluralism within democracies is a construct where power is not devolved to individuals qua individuals, but rather, to a series of groups.

Given this, it is important here to see that there was a large change in our country from nineteenth century theories of autonomy and freedom and twentieth century notions of pluralism and power. There was a movement away from autonomy at the state, local, and federal level in the structure of political organizations, especially courts and executive branches. Power was removed from localities to more state and federal level court enforcement and modernization while power was concentrated in executive branches via executive agencies than legislative branches and legislative agencies. One only need list the three-letter acronyms. IRS, EPA, the old unconstitutional TVA, etc. These agencies were to modernize law by replacing legislative remedy with executive action. In other words, where legislatures and courts once determined amounts and weights and measures and trade, now executive agencies were charged with the task of implementing expert substantive guidelines for certain things.  

But back to intersectionality. Intersectionality, then, is a modern movement where individual autonomy and group characteristics meet pluralism in politics. It is where the phrase "identity politics" arises from. It is a set of individual characteristics, forming an identity, using the group identity to bring pressure to bear on political structures and organization. 

We see examples of this every day. Almost all our debates in the PSF are about it. 

Intersectionality and The Struggle Of Self, Then: 

The struggle of the self is probably the most thorny problem within intersectionality. At what point does fidelity to one's self become fidelity to the group? This is where I get theoretical and off-script in attempting to diagnose a modern conundrum. It would seem to me that the concept of self and identity lie at the heart of 21st Century politics. 

Intersectionality and The Struggle For Representation, Also: 

More TK when I get a chance

 
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What an interesting topic and thank you for the detailed write-up, Rock, appreciate the effort. Look forward to following this thread and perhaps participating at some elementary level.

 
Is this limited to Western culture? China and India culture definitely isn't white. Yes, male still dominant characteristic. 

 
"nineteenth century theories of autonomy and freedom and twentieth century notions of pluralism and power."

Labels for the suffragettes, Jim Crow survivors, Stonewall rebels, Watts citizens, Rampart denizens and others who weren't able to participate in the autonomy and freedom of the 19th century. We've come a long way, baby!

 
Apparently I need way more coffee before I can comprehend this, maybe learning to read Greek would help too.  😉

 
"nineteenth century theories of autonomy and freedom and twentieth century notions of pluralism and power."

Labels for the suffragettes, Jim Crow survivors, Stonewall rebels, Watts citizens, Rampart denizens and others who weren't able to participate in the autonomy and freedom of the 19th century. We've come a long way, baby!
Women, blacks, gays, blacks again, and others would certainly be examples of pluralism and protests organized under pluralism, yes. 

 
I am at heart a pluralist. I read Dahl in college and became a true believer- as a GENERAL rule. Still am. 
But it doesn’t always apply. Sometimes circumstances force us as a society to accept group solutions. Sometimes people who promote group identity in some situations are actually individualists and pluralists in others. And vice versa. Sometimes chaos reigns. There is no set rule in all situations. 
Sometimes you remind me of BF Skinner, attempting to pigeonhole human behavior into neat little boxes. It doesn’t work. Everything is situational. If I think Trump did a good job as President that doesn’t make me a white supremacist. If I think Black Lives Matter is a worthy movement (not merely a slogan but movement) that doesn’t make me a Communist. I’m a Communist if I personally espouse Communist ideas. NOTHING else makes me a Communist. If I handed you a copy of Mein Kampf and said “read it, it’s got some good ideas” that wouldn’t make me a Nazi. Only if I pushed for specific Nazi ideas. 
Stop labeling. 

 
Ptolemaic thinking. Ptolemy's astronomy dominated the science for 1000 years and is filled with great sciencing, much of which has contributed to thought & advancement. But it was based on explaining the activities of celestial bodies as they rotated around the earth. But they didnt rotate around the earth is all.

This all is the thinking of people who believe equality is the ultimate goal of mankind. That is so only because it is least possible. There is no equality among any aspect of the black, lesbian, mother, warrior or poet delineations of the exampled self-description. "Equal" is like "now" - a moment more than a place.

Not saying equality should not be a goal, but it should not be the goal. "Better" is the only description i can give to the ultimate human goal. I don't want "best" to be a goal, because the best best can only be seen from the first best, if you know what i mean. We were blessed to always be able to see the next in everything. It is why we abide. It is why we destroy.

Equality is an important part of better. White men won most of the battles and contests and got to make the rules. This can't be good for not-white, not-men but society has almost already proven that overthrowing hierarchical systems largely results in less-satisfying, less-comprehensive new sets of hierarchies, because the fiery natures of revolutionaries leads to volatility and recoil.

So, we venture to evolve, get better. But emerging classes are the ones stunting their own growth because the leading edges of their movements are too hot & silly. My life has been positioned to observe almost the entirety of American liberation struggles. Handslapping & woundlicking have become the order of the day, nowhere near enough attention is being paid to those who've busted thru giving leg-ups to those behind them (except for the differents, who've done almost too wonderful a job with that) and their complaining is closing the ears of those who must relinquish the power they seek.

Humility is the only answer. Those who know me know how wont i am to declare that we are either gods or bugs. The HUUUUGE percentage of human beings will only take up space, a rare few truly advancing us along. The gods then make too many rules, the bugs too much noise. For humanity to thrive, those gods must see their status, no matter how hardly won, as a privilege rather than a power and the bugs must see their job as being to cooperate before anything else. Humility being the ultimate thing for humans to find in themselves is our best and only hope to any orderly path toward getting better.

 
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I am at heart a pluralist. I read Dahl in college and became a true believer- as a GENERAL rule. Still am. 
But it doesn’t always apply. Sometimes circumstances force us as a society to accept group solutions. Sometimes people who promote group identity in some situations are actually individualists and pluralists in others. And vice versa. Sometimes chaos reigns. There is no set rule in all situations. 
Sometimes you remind me of BF Skinner, attempting to pigeonhole human behavior into neat little boxes. It doesn’t work. Everything is situational. If I think Trump did a good job as President that doesn’t make me a white supremacist. If I think Black Lives Matter is a worthy movement (not merely a slogan but movement) that doesn’t make me a Communist. I’m a Communist if I personally espouse Communist ideas. NOTHING else makes me a Communist. If I handed you a copy of Mein Kampf and said “read it, it’s got some good ideas” that wouldn’t make me a Nazi. Only if I pushed for specific Nazi ideas. 
Stop labeling. 
There is bleeding in everything, but your attempt to take issue with my writing is weird. I've only gotten to the stages of explaining the movements. I haven't even gotten to their ramifications, and you've already got problems. Go check any intersectionality argument and tell me my first description is misleading or wrong. Then check any political science book from the 21st Century and tell me that there was no movement from autonomy and individualism to groups and pluralism. The paradox of the radically individual using the group to obtain political status is unassailable. Your complaints are that of a five year-old. I haven't even gotten to the conclusions yet. You are also importing other arguments from other threads and blanketing this distinct thread and premises and conclusions with it. Don't do that. 

And you're painting my ideas inaccurately. Don't speak for me, either. You're getting my positions totally wrong. If LeBron James supports an organization that is Marxist, that does not make him a Marxist, it makes him a "useful idiot." All I was asking was what would he be is if the system indeed changed like he wants it to and his friends won the day. You seem to have a hard time unwinding the messiness of all that, not me. 

Ptolemaic thinking. Ptolemy's astronomy dominated the science for 1000 years and is filled with great sciencing, much of which has contributed to thought & advancement. But it was based on explaining the activities of celestial bodies as they rotated around the earth. But they didnt rotate around the earth is all.

This all is the thinking of people who believe equality is the ultimate goal of mankind. That is so only because it is least possible. There is no equality among any aspect of the black, lesbian, mother, warrior or poet delineations of the exampled self-description. "Equal" is like "now" - a moment more than a place.

Not saying equality should not be a goal, but it should not be the goal. "Better" is the only description i can give to the ultimate human goal. I don't want "best" to be a goal, because the best best can onkly be seen fronm the first best, if you know what i mean. We were blessed to always be able to see the next in everything. It is why we abide. It is why we destroy.

Equality is an important part of better. White men won most of the battles and contests and got to make the rules. This can't be good for not-white, not-men but society has almost already proven that overthrowing hierarchical systems largely results in less-satisfying, less-comprehensive new sets of hierarchies, because the fiery natures of revolutionaries leads to volatility and recoil.

So, we venture to evolve, get better. But emerging classes are the ones stunting their own growth because the leading edges of their movements are too hot & silly. My life has been positioned to observe almost the entirety of American liberation struggles. Handslapping & woundlicking have become the order of the day, nowhere near enough attention is being paid giving top those who've busted thru giving leg-ups to those behind them (except for the differents, who've done almost too wonderful a job with that) and their complaining is closing the ears of those who must relinquish the power they seek.

Humility is the only answer. Those who know me know how wont i am to declare that we are either gods or bugs. The HUUUUGE percentage of human beings will only take up space, a rare few truly advancing us along. The gods then make too many rules, the bugs too much noise. For humanity to thrive, those gods must see their status, no matter how hardly won, as a privilege rather than a power and the bugs must see their job as being to cooperate before anything else. Humility being the ultimate thing for humans to find in themselves is our best and only hope to any orderly path toward getting better.
You are commenting before I've had the chance to get into this, using very similar words and concepts that I would use. This is why, I guess, you don't publish unsaved work. 

 
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There is bleeding in everything, but your attempt to take issue with my writing is weird. I've only gotten to the stages of explaining the movements. I haven't even gotten to their ramifications, and you've already got problems. Go check any intersectionality argument and tell me my first description is misleading or wrong. Then check any political science book from the 21st Century and tell me that there was no movement from autonomy and individualism to groups and pluralism. The paradox of the radically individual using the group to obtain political status is unassailable. Your complaints are that of a five year-old. I haven't even gotten to the conclusions yet. 

You are commenting before I've had the chance to get into this, using very similar words and concepts that I would use. This is why, I guess, you don't publish unsaved work. 
Fair enough Rock. I might be way off in my assumptions. I’ll wait until you’re done and then offer an opinion (if you still want one.) 

 
There is bleeding in everything, but your attempt to take issue with my writing is weird. I've only gotten to the stages of explaining the movements. I haven't even gotten to their ramifications, and you've already got problems. Go check any intersectionality argument and tell me my first description is misleading or wrong. Then check any political science book from the 21st Century and tell me that there was no movement from autonomy and individualism to groups and pluralism. The paradox of the radically individual using the group to obtain political status is unassailable. Your complaints are that of a five year-old. I haven't even gotten to the conclusions yet. 

You are commenting before I've had the chance to get into this, using very similar words and concepts that I would use. This is why, I guess, you don't publish unsaved work. 


do you want me to erase? i didnt know it was entirely a tutorial

 
do you want me to erase? i didnt know it was entirely a tutorial
Hey, wikkid, no, it is not a tutorial. I just hadn't had time to type it out. 

Please do not erase in the least. I was concurring. When I speak about something similar, please do not think it stolen. We agree about the conclusion and the important part, or nub of the issue, which is the role equality plays with respect to freedom and advancement of us as humans. 

 
Fair enough Rock. I might be way off in my assumptions. I’ll wait until you’re done and then offer an opinion (if you still want one.) 


Thanks, man. Check my edits for my views on our other argument. I've included it. I think my argument about LeBron and the support of organizations is much different than you think. And I'm happy to have your input. I'm just not even close to done yet. 

 
Hey, wikkid, no, it is not a tutorial. I just hadn't had time to type it out. 

Please do not erase in the least. I was concurring. When I speak about something similar, please do not think it stolen. We agree about the conclusion and the important part, or nub of the issue, which is the role equality plays with respect to freedom and advancement of us as humans. 


no problem. i've long known we were advancing along the same edge in many ways

ETA: to the bolded - yeah, it's childproofing liberty 

 
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I'll take ramped up empathy and understanding of others (individuals and groups) as an ideal over an impossible quest for equality any day. Kind of the ultimate flavor of liberty and if I may so bold, is what I think the concert of the Kingdom of Heaven was all about. Forget afterlife, it's a possibility here and now. 

Curious to read Rock's following contributions.

 
This is CRT, essentially.

I took a sociology class or two in college.....always thought much if it is over-analysis mumbo jumbo.  I mean there's always some meat there, but then it just goes on and on.....and then people try to apply to the real world, and everyone is either a victim or an oppressor.....

 

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