You do realize that Michel has torn his ACL, injured that same knee again in 2017, has fractured and re-injured his shoulder, reportedly has a "bone-on-bone" knee condition, is currently missing TC practices because of a knee injury, and had over 200 touches in ONE of his college seasons, right?
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RB Sony Michel (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Did they? They knew he was going to hurt his knee (again) and miss time in TC?
That aside, NE also knew about Burkhead's injury history when they signed him in FA before 2017, AND when they resigned him this past off-season to a multi-year extension that is worth more, per-year, than what they are paying Michel.
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Howe: Further details w/more clarity: Michel’s knee injury requires a procedure that’s expected to keep him out of preseason, and perhaps even into the start of the reg season, per 2 sources. So not a major sigh of relief, but the expectation is Michel should contribute this season.
https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1025831498707075072?s=21
https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1025831498707075072?s=21
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
squistion
Footballguy
Latest from Ian Rapoport:
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 8m8 minutes ago
#Patriots RB Sony Michel suffered a knee injury in Wednesday’s practice and required a procedure, source confirms (as @jeffphowe said). He will be fine by the start of the regular season, at the very latest. Considered minor.
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 8m8 minutes ago
#Patriots RB Sony Michel suffered a knee injury in Wednesday’s practice and required a procedure, source confirms (as @jeffphowe said). He will be fine by the start of the regular season, at the very latest. Considered minor.
Penguin
Footballguy
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots rookie running back Sony Michel underwent a procedure to drain fluid from his knee after leaving Wednesday's practice, and is expected to be sidelined for at least 10 days, according to sources.
While the recovery process could extend beyond 10 days, it is not expected to affect Michel's availability for a significant portion, if any, of the regular season.
Edelman: Return from ACL tear has been a 'grind'
Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman said Friday that he's still trying to get into football shape while recovering from a torn ACL that sidelined him last season.
A source described the draining of the knee as more of a clean-up, referring to it as positive because it helped address some pre-existing issues.
A first-round draft pick out of Georgia (No. 31 overall), Michel left the SEC Championship Game against Auburn in December with a left knee sprain, but returned to play in the team's final two games (Rose Bowl, national championship).
The Patriots plan to pair the 5-foot-11, 215-pound Michel with Rex Burkhead and James White atop their running back depth chart, as they transition without Dion Lewis, who signed as a free agent with the Tennessee Titans this offseason.
On Wednesday's sixth practice of training camp, Michel walked off the field under his own power with head athletic trainer Jim Whalen, first entering the medical tent and then heading to the locker room.
While the recovery process could extend beyond 10 days, it is not expected to affect Michel's availability for a significant portion, if any, of the regular season.
Edelman: Return from ACL tear has been a 'grind'
Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman said Friday that he's still trying to get into football shape while recovering from a torn ACL that sidelined him last season.
A source described the draining of the knee as more of a clean-up, referring to it as positive because it helped address some pre-existing issues.
A first-round draft pick out of Georgia (No. 31 overall), Michel left the SEC Championship Game against Auburn in December with a left knee sprain, but returned to play in the team's final two games (Rose Bowl, national championship).
The Patriots plan to pair the 5-foot-11, 215-pound Michel with Rex Burkhead and James White atop their running back depth chart, as they transition without Dion Lewis, who signed as a free agent with the Tennessee Titans this offseason.
On Wednesday's sixth practice of training camp, Michel walked off the field under his own power with head athletic trainer Jim Whalen, first entering the medical tent and then heading to the locker room.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
That doesn't sound good. Hope he can get healthy as he was a treat to watch in college.
True, but I would argue that missing ten days early in camp as a new player/rookie is worse then missing ten days at almost any other time. Missing 10 days during the season affects how you score in 1-2 weeks.... missing ten days now can affect your role/how you score in all of them.
TripItUp
Footballguy
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TripItUp
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Me too. He was always a late season play with the hope he gets on a Dion Lewis share of the job but his price tag was way too high to roll the dice in that. This way he may get a fair market price tag.
Praying for an overreaction so I can get Michel a few rounds cheaper.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Ugh...needs to get back on the practice field soon if he is going to make any impact this season...
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
He's dipped into the late 7th according to ffcalc. He, along with Penny, are getting to the point where their ADP could actually represent value.
Mark Football
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
You're right. There's only a small portion that's fixable and it doesn't sound like that's the area that he has.
Once you remove that, there is a potential for strain to the surrounding, untouched meniscus being higher and maybe more injury. The meniscus is like the pillow of the knee, so when that goes away then now you have cartilage of the femur rubbing on cartilage of the tibia, which is fine but not really what either were specifically designed for in the knee. This can lead to other issues over time, such as microfracture surgery and chronic pain/inflammation over the course of a career.
I certainly wouldn't want him. But I also don't want Melvin Gordon, but he's carved out quite a nice career for himself since his microfracture (although I do feel like the time on his knee is about to expire soon). Every injury is different, every person is different.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
NO
i had a full tear, this doesn’t sound like that and at the time I was exercising very hard , Spartan gym stuff 4 x a week . no way I could have done any of that for a long time. Clearly I’m not an athlete and don’t have access to professional care like nfl teams, but I’m sure there is greater chance of. Re aggravating the injury and that it’s a painful injury to run with
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Seems like they are trying to avoid him being out for 4-6 weeks with a meniscectomy, and so far it isn't looking good. To avoid ridicule, I will stop there and just caution people to take that information for what it's worth and proceed with caution. If you care to hear my concerns on this feel free to message me.
TripItUp
Footballguy
I'd actually like to hear your concerns publicly if you don't mind...your posts have been very informative.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Agreed. I'm also curious if anyone has feedback on prior precedents (RBs WRs who have dealt with meniscus related issues historically).
You are a very knowledgeable poster. Share publically and let the trolls troll. LOL
personally like sonny but with the meniscus it’s a big big caution flag
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Here are my thoughts
first this was a surgery to drain the knee, later the narrative was it was a "procedure." that's odd in itself. first to do a surgery to drain the knee is counter productive. surgery causes swelling. no matter how minor, which is why a syringe is usually used to drain. second, for swelling to be bad enough to drain... that's a lot of swelling. it only takes 20ccs of fluid (20ml) to start to inhibit the quadriceps. that's not a lot. so strength is a concern for me
I read initially out 10 days. then I saw all preseason and maybe into the regular season. Also we had an update last week that his issue was related to a meniscus injury. so this has changed quite a bit over the last 10 days.
the timeline for return (about 4 weeks) leads me to believe that he may have a mensicectomy. which if thats the case that can lead to other issues later on, but many athletes have this fixed and are just fine. in fact, many ACL tears have meniscus involvement.
Meniscus does not heal on it's own, except for one small spot called the red zone (no relation to football). when the meniscus is removed, it leads to earlier onset of arthritis in the knee. an average person in their 20s can expect arthritic changes at 45 or 50 that limit activities. an elite athlete... that's so much more impact to the knees, but not enough of a sample size or research to make a definitive statement about this. I doubt it leads to arthritis in 10 years. as I said, many athletes have this surgery and are fine. I just get concerned about any other cartilage involvement. is this going to maybe lead to microfracture some day? all depends on the size of the tear.
let's say he didn't have the meniscus tear removed, well now I'm more concerned. why the 10 day timeline? is this going to be something that bothers him all year? if he swells, how much weaker and ineffective is he going to be? Did he tear it in the Red Zone? That fits the timeline as well. he would be out and likely non weight bearing at least 4 weeks. maybe that's what they're hoping for, for it to heal on it's own. that would be the best case scenario of this whole thing.
IMO if he didnt have a mensiectomy, it's still swollen, and he has to miss 4 weeks, then I wouldn't be surprised if he did need surgery at some point this season or offseason.
so I guess I see three scenarios:
1. He had mensicectomy. in which case I'm not as excited about him long term (potential for other cartilage issues), but it's a relatively minor procedure, and I'm likely being too cautious. But wouldnt we have known this? isnt it a rule to report this on the injury report?
2. They are trying to avoid the mensicectomy. This is likely to be an issue and swell throughout the season. trying to see if draining and therapy can help, but depends on the size of the tear what the chances of this working out are.
3. He tore in the one spot that can heal on it's own and he could be fine. best case scenario IMO.
I'm confused why it was initially said 10 days missed. if they really thought he'd be back in 10 days following his procedure, and that wasn't bad reporting, then #3 is ruled out. Or was that the report before the procedure?
I assume you can't withhold surgeries from injury reports, so maybe #1 is out too.
So that leaves #2. My least favorite of all of the options. Sure, it could be a minor tear and a good prognosis, but then why did it swell so bad, and why the need to drain?
Lots of questions and yellow flags. Too much for me right now.
first this was a surgery to drain the knee, later the narrative was it was a "procedure." that's odd in itself. first to do a surgery to drain the knee is counter productive. surgery causes swelling. no matter how minor, which is why a syringe is usually used to drain. second, for swelling to be bad enough to drain... that's a lot of swelling. it only takes 20ccs of fluid (20ml) to start to inhibit the quadriceps. that's not a lot. so strength is a concern for me
I read initially out 10 days. then I saw all preseason and maybe into the regular season. Also we had an update last week that his issue was related to a meniscus injury. so this has changed quite a bit over the last 10 days.
the timeline for return (about 4 weeks) leads me to believe that he may have a mensicectomy. which if thats the case that can lead to other issues later on, but many athletes have this fixed and are just fine. in fact, many ACL tears have meniscus involvement.
Meniscus does not heal on it's own, except for one small spot called the red zone (no relation to football). when the meniscus is removed, it leads to earlier onset of arthritis in the knee. an average person in their 20s can expect arthritic changes at 45 or 50 that limit activities. an elite athlete... that's so much more impact to the knees, but not enough of a sample size or research to make a definitive statement about this. I doubt it leads to arthritis in 10 years. as I said, many athletes have this surgery and are fine. I just get concerned about any other cartilage involvement. is this going to maybe lead to microfracture some day? all depends on the size of the tear.
let's say he didn't have the meniscus tear removed, well now I'm more concerned. why the 10 day timeline? is this going to be something that bothers him all year? if he swells, how much weaker and ineffective is he going to be? Did he tear it in the Red Zone? That fits the timeline as well. he would be out and likely non weight bearing at least 4 weeks. maybe that's what they're hoping for, for it to heal on it's own. that would be the best case scenario of this whole thing.
IMO if he didnt have a mensiectomy, it's still swollen, and he has to miss 4 weeks, then I wouldn't be surprised if he did need surgery at some point this season or offseason.
so I guess I see three scenarios:
1. He had mensicectomy. in which case I'm not as excited about him long term (potential for other cartilage issues), but it's a relatively minor procedure, and I'm likely being too cautious. But wouldnt we have known this? isnt it a rule to report this on the injury report?
2. They are trying to avoid the mensicectomy. This is likely to be an issue and swell throughout the season. trying to see if draining and therapy can help, but depends on the size of the tear what the chances of this working out are.
3. He tore in the one spot that can heal on it's own and he could be fine. best case scenario IMO.
I'm confused why it was initially said 10 days missed. if they really thought he'd be back in 10 days following his procedure, and that wasn't bad reporting, then #3 is ruled out. Or was that the report before the procedure?
I assume you can't withhold surgeries from injury reports, so maybe #1 is out too.
So that leaves #2. My least favorite of all of the options. Sure, it could be a minor tear and a good prognosis, but then why did it swell so bad, and why the need to drain?
Lots of questions and yellow flags. Too much for me right now.
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billjohnson
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I doubt the Patriots said boo about a timeline and a reporter asked someone not that close to the team and got 10 days as a guess . . . but somehow that made the rounds and being reported as fact or "sources close to the team."
Interseptopus
Footballguy
right, that's what I'm wondering. and it's perhaps the most crucial part of decoding what's going on here with Michel.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I heard a blurb on the radio the other day and someone asked B.B. for a status update on some of the injured guys and if any were close to returning.
He gave his usual non answer of injury status will be updated the week leading up to opening day as required. And his job is to coach the players that are actually on the field for practice. That of course was followed by a comment about trying to get a little bit better every practice. But not a word about injured players.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Great post.
Says to no one in particular: I was under the impression that there are zero injury reporting obligations until the regular season starts?
JFS171
Footballguy
I believe that’s correct. Part of the reason we get extremely limited information about injuries in the preseason is because no injury report is required until the lead up to week 1.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
That's what I got from Anarchy's post above. I was unaware of that. It's interesting. In that case I'd go back and say #1 is likely the scenario and whomever gave the 10 day timeline was full of garbage.
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Having scanned the web, I found it interesting that the two sources pre-draft most often cited for "concerns about Sony Michel" were Michael Lombardi and Mike Mayock.
Let that sink in for a minute.
Let that sink in for a minute.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Let me preface the following as one reporter raising the specter of concern over Michel's status and it is nothing more than speculation about something that COULD happen and not that it will happen. But when I see someone whose job is to cover the team, and I see the following, I at least listen and give pause that something potentially isn't right.
Buried at the end of an article from the other day . . .
LINK
Buried at the end of an article from the other day . . .
LINK
Again, this could be nothing, but it caught my attention. If nothing else, it further highlights that those considering Michel in redraft need to proceed with caution.
mere blitzianity
Footballguy
He's back for now, but he has a lot to learn and that knee issue could linger most of the season. I love his talent, but let's see him make it through a week of practice.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
For sure, there are still some odds stacked against him but it's a big step in the right direction today.
