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Is It Important That The Show Business Ego Awards Are Getting Eaten By Their Own Leftism? (1 Viewer)

rockaction

Footballguy
I don't know whether to defend the awards as they are or to say good riddance. It's weird, the pretext or premises upon which a thing is disposed of is important, right?

Because once somebody like Asia Kate Dillon comes after the "binary" sex categories at awards shows (as always, calling them "gender" categories instead of addressing biological sex), she's likely to come after something of yours, right? I mean, I can't imagine what, but it just...seems that way.

Sort of like how agrarian farmers originally sympathized with communists against the Tsar, but were horribly mistaken. Somehow I feel like watching show biz implode is symptomatic of something greater. Every week -- or five years -- we're asked, "What could it harm?" "What could we lose?"

And every year, it seems things get worse. We teetered on the edge of fascism for a bit as a reaction to a way of life being lost. A carnival barker took deep-seeded (deep-seated? It probably doesn't matter but for the upcoming analogy) dissatisfaction and watered it, cultivating an environment where anti-democratic impulses came to the fore. There was ten percent agitation (isn't it always ten percent) from the left, mixed with about fifty percent acquiescence or not caring, and then about forty percent of people who felt trod upon, like a way of life was being lost.

Anyway, I'm just wondering -- before the awards shows blow up, should I really care upon what grounds? I get the sneaking suspicion I should, actually, and you'll find somebody like me, who was pretty much through with Hollywood, defending traditional awards show categories not on necessarily theatrical or historical grounds, but simply based on the fact that I don't like the new program upon which it is founded.

I feel like my own identity is slightly at stake here, and I'm a traditionalist with a modicum of tolerance, properly understood.

#### Asia Kate Dillon and her their/them/they ####. I've had enough.

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/asia-kate-dillon-billions-sag-awards-open-letter-1234630871/

 
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I don't know whether to defend the awards as they are or to say good riddance. It's weird, the pretext or premises upon which a thing is disposed of is important, right?

Because once somebody like Asia Kate


Dillon


comes after the "binary" sex categories at awards shows (as always, calling them "gender" categories instead of addressing biological sex), she's likely to come after something of yours, right? I mean, I can't imagine what, but it just...seems that way.

Sort of like how agrarian farmers originally sympathized with communists against the Tsar, but were horribly mistaken. Somehow I feel like watching show biz implode is symptomatic of something greater. Every week -- or five years -- we're asked, "What could it harm?" "What could we lose?"

And every year, it seems things get worse. We teetered on the edge of fascism for a bit as a reaction to a way of life being lost. A carnival barker took deep-seeded (deep-seated? It probably doesn't matter but for the upcoming analogy) dissatisfaction and watered it, cultivating an environment where anti-democratic impulses came to the fore. There was ten percent agitation (isn't it always ten percent) from the left, mixed with about fifty percent acquiescence or not caring, and then about forty percent of people who felt trod upon, like a way of life was being lost.

Anyway, I'm just wondering -- before the awards shows blow up, should I really care upon what grounds? I get the sneaking suspicion I should, actually, and you'll find somebody like me, who was pretty much through with Hollywood, defending traditional awards show categories not on necessarily theatrical or historical grounds, but simply based on the fact that I don't like the new program upon which it is founded.

I feel like my own identity is slightly at stake here, and I'm a traditionalist with a modicum of tolerance, properly understood.

#### Asia Kate


Dillon


and her their/them/they ####. I've had enough.


I'm with you rock.  This nonsense needs to stop.

This whole thing has its roots in far left ideologies, like you pointed out.  That has never ended well.  Ever.

Turns out, Joseph McCarthy was right - he was just about 50 or so years to early.

 
I think it matters quite a bit that academia and the media have been ideologically captured.  I don't think Hollywood matters anywhere near as much -- nobody actually looks to celebrities for political wisdom, and whatever craziness emerges in that little corner of the world is sealed off pretty neatly from the rest of society.

 
I think it matters quite a bit that academia and the media have been ideologically captured.  I don't think Hollywood matters anywhere near as much -- nobody actually looks to celebrities for political wisdom, and whatever craziness emerges in that little corner of the world is sealed off pretty neatly from the rest of society.
Maybe I am missing what you're saying here, but I don't see how you can say the bold after having lived through a Trump Presidency.  

 
I think it matters quite a bit that academia and the media have been ideologically captured.  I don't think Hollywood matters anywhere near as much -- nobody actually looks to celebrities for political wisdom, and whatever craziness emerges in that little corner of the world is sealed off pretty neatly from the rest of society.
You are generally very smart on a lot of things but you couldn't be more far off with this.  Maybe sarcasm, but America is SOOOOO celebrity driven. What they do matters way more than it should.  It's quite hard to see.

 
Award shows are dumb. Don't watch them.

With the possible exception of the Grammys - just because it has a lot of musical performances. I like watching when those are on.

 
Its absolutely hilarious with these guys and how much Trump completely drives their line of thinking about everything.  Wow.
Instead of the typical "but Trump" comment, maybe you should read the bolded in the post The Commish made and you will easily see it is completely relevant.  

 
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I'm with you rock.  This nonsense needs to stop.

This whole thing has its roots in far left ideologies, like you pointed out.  That has never ended well.  Ever.

Turns out, Joseph McCarthy was right - he was just about 50 or so years to early.


Right about what?

 
Instead of the typical "but Trump" comment, maybe you should read the bolded in the post The Commish made and you will easily see it is completely relevant.  
meh....anything pointed out in recent history is "but Trump".  That's all they have left so they'll ride that straw man as long as they can.  Best part is, just a few posts later he agrees that many are driven by celebrity.  The only meaningful difference between his post and mine was I named a celebrity  :lmao:  

 
Instead of the typical "but Trump" comment, maybe you should read the bolded in the post The Commish made and you will easily see it is completely relevant.  
Absolutely living in your heads..All thoughts, all situations.  It's just crazy how this man has completely changed how you think about everything.  I mean just move on  Jeez

 
No, you shouldn't care unless you are into Hollywood gossip or work in the business. 
 I wouldn't really expect my broader point about incipient ideology to land on a guy who

  • vehemently protested my use of socialism as a cause for things that went awry in Venezuela, and protested so loudly that I changed the title of the thread out of decorum, an obvious mistake in retrospect
  • vehemently protested my use of socialism as a cause for things that were going awry in other parts of the world, including citing the rise of socialist leaders in Western Europe as "not a bad thing"
  • consistently downplays capital "H" History and its inexorable march through institutions and its capture of modes of ideological dissemination
In fact, I wouldn't expect you to worry about this in the least. It's clearly on your side of things. You keep up with the fights and fits and starts, I'll worry about the left marching through our institutions without your say-so, thanks, Z Machine.

 
I think it matters quite a bit that academia and the media have been ideologically captured.  I don't think Hollywood matters anywhere near as much -- nobody actually looks to celebrities for political wisdom, and whatever craziness emerges in that little corner of the world is sealed off pretty neatly from the rest of society.
I think you're underestimating the amount of influence that plot and ideology within pop culture have amongst the young, who are, now with their phones, available for complete re-edcuation and transmission (TRANS-MISSION, GET IT? I MADE THAT UP!) away from their parents' supervision.

 
Our institutions = Hollywood self-congratulatory jagoff sessions?
They are Hollywood jagoff sessions watched and debated by tens of millions of women and gay guys.

I was more commenting on your consistent insistence that there's nobody in the hen house but "us chickens."

 
I think you're underestimating the amount of influence that plot and ideology within pop culture have amongst the young, who are, now with their phones, available for complete re-edcuation and transmission (TRANS-MISSION, GET IT? I MADE THAT UP!) away from their parents' supervision.
If conservatives don't like the education that their kids are getting from their phones maybe they should invest their time in family values instead of letting Hollywood tell their kids what's good/ bad. 

 
Right about what?
Commies in Hollywood. There were, in retrospect, tons. And lots of spies. McCarthy made the mistake of being a bully with power, an anti-speech buffoon and clod. What he was not necessarily wrong about were his accusations, at first. Later, he was dead wrong. About almost everything. And deserved what he got.

Blade Runner has such a fear of socialism and communism that he has a tenuous grasp on reality.

What IS real is the transgender march through institutions.

 
If conservatives don't like the education that their kids are getting from their phones maybe they should invest their time in family values instead of letting Hollywood tell their kids what's good/ bad. 
They claim it's impossible to raise their children in such an environment.

I think my whole post was about why this is an issue I particularly don't care to discuss with you, because you've gotten it wrong consistently and with such self-confidence one would be assured that Venezuela and the like hadn't fallen into such disrepair as to cause mass starvation, hunger, and fleeing refugees, the likes of which now populate our Southern border.

Thank you, I've had about enough of your opinion.

 
I don't know what this means. 
 I was really telling you that I don't listen to you in any way, shape, or form. It's when the farmer goes to check on foxes in the hen house and hears "nobody but us chickens."

Of course you don't have a problem with this. You don't have a problem with the downfall of the West in general.

Why would you have a problem with rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?

And my point is -- I don't care what you think. Your contribution to my thoughts is utterly negligible. You bring nothing to the table but the fire burning and the dog going

THIS IS FINE!

 
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I don't really understand anything the OP is posting. Is he saying that a trans person who transitions from a man to a woman shouldn't be allowed to compete for an acting award as a woman? 

That's an awfully roundabout way of saying "I don't think we should have Trans people."

Of course, because the OP uses a lot of words to say something, I certainly could have misinterpreted his post. 

 
I don't really understand anything the OP is posting. Is he saying that a trans person who transitions from a man to a woman shouldn't be allowed to compete for an acting award as a woman? 

That's an awfully roundabout way of saying "I don't think we should have Trans people."

Of course, because the OP uses a lot of words to say something, I certainly could have misinterpreted his post. 
No, the OP is talking about the non-transitioning person's decision to petition the academy to remove the "actor" and "actress" categories from the awards shows and simply award the statue/award/what have you to the best "actor," male or female or binary.

It's an attempt to get rid of the "male" and "female" behind the categories.

Perhaps I should link to the story.

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/asia-kate-dillon-billions-sag-awards-open-letter-1234630871/

 
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wait, is this thread about Venezuela, or about Trans people? I'm confused. 
It's about the march of an incipient ideology through institutions, capturing them in the name of the "new man." It might have been confusing to follow, but I doubt it.

 
Thanks for linking to this.  It's delicious.

In late 2016, I publicly came out as non-binary, meaning I’m not male or female, or man or womxn.
I do actually agree that there's no obvious reason for having separate categories for men and women when it comes to acting awards -- I don't think men have any sort of natural advantage here that women need to be protected from.  But it's also fun to read Really Dumb Arguments From Unserious People, and I think this persxn's letter represents the genre quite well.

 
No, the OP is talking about the non-transitioning person's decision to petition the academy to remove the "actor" and "actress" categories from the awards shows and simply award the statue/award/what have you to the best "actor," male or female or binary.

It's an attempt to get rid of the "male" and "female" behind the categories.


hmmmm. Interesting. I could see decent arguments both ways for either keeping gender-specific categories, or getting rid of them. I mean, we don't have separate categories for "best male director" and "best female director." But I also don't really see a huge harm in separating out male and female either.

I see this as more culture-wars that the right is trying to do. You guys LOVE to get heated over cultural divide "us vs. them" kind of stuff that could be handled less . . . I don't know, emotionally?

 
He should have done that at the beginning, as like you, I had no idea what he was posting about either (which is true for many of his threads but was worse in this instance).


It was clear from the OP what I was talking about if you've followed this at all. Or even took the time to Google it. It's the first thing that comes up when you Google "Asia Kate Dillon, awards." Of course, you're arguing in bad faith about my obscurity, as always.

Don't let your completely dull nature affect the way you deal with me. Seek to overcome it.

 
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I see this as more culture-wars that the right is trying to do. You guys LOVE to get heated over cultural divide "us vs. them" kind of stuff that could be handled less . . . I don't know, emotionally?


No, it came from me and only me because I happened upon it.

How on earth does this come from the right? It sounds like she penned the public letter.

 
This post reminds me how much fun philosophy majors were at college parties. 
Sweet J, how was the Black Lives Matter march and anti-cop marches of 2019 dating back to the nebulous case of Michael Brown? Were your energies well-spent?

Your posts back then remind me of how much fun activists are at...well...life.

 
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All the usual techniques are coming out of the woodwork today.

HEY FELLAS, BOARD'S CHANGED. NO LONGER GET TO RUN IT WITH OBFUSCATIONS AND TRICKS BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT A RECORD HERE NOW AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT!

 
Sweet J, how was the Black Lives Matter march and anti-cop marches of 2019 dating back to the nebulous case of Michael Brown? Were your energies well-spent?

Your posts back then remind me of how much fun activists are at...well...life.


I'm trying a new things where I keep the snark to a minimum. I've already failed in this thread once, but I'll keep trying.

Anyway, my response to this is that I think it's a bit of stretch to compare these two things. And that it would probably be a stretch to call myself an activist.

 
Hey look, I'll admit that I was on the Kevan Barlow train back in 2004, but shouldn't there be a statute of limitations on this kind of thing?
I drafted Henry Ruggs in a rookie draft at 1.06 after trading out of the 1.01 and I follow nearly every dynasty thing I write about with "I do this for fun. Please don't take me seriously."

If only some of the political folks would do the same.

 
I'm trying a new things where I keep the snark to a minimum. I've already failed in this thread once, but I'll keep trying.

Anyway, my response to this is that I think it's a bit of stretch to compare these two things. And that it would probably be a stretch to call myself an activist.


All we can do is make ourselves better. I've now personally gone on the offensive over three times, and that's not me, either. Good to have you back despite our political differences.

I'll start, and imagine I'm saying this sober (I am): You're a good poster and an intelligent guy. 

Wrongheaded, of course. But a smart person.

 
Thanks for linking to this.  It's delicious.

I do actually agree that there's no obvious reason for having separate categories for men and women when it comes to acting awards -- I don't think men have any sort of natural advantage here that women need to be protected from.  But it's also fun to read Really Dumb Arguments From Unserious People, and I think this persxn's letter represents the genre quite well.
That was her argument, though. That the history of the categories is because cis-womxn were underrepresented. Her argument was, of course, simply about "representation" in all its forms. That's the crux of the weirdly identity-politics driven argument. That once upon a time cis-womxn were underrepresented, but now they're not and it's time to eliminate the categories to foster inclusion of the non-binary.

These are not my words.

 
No, it came from me and only me because I happened upon it.

How on earth does this come from the right? It sounds like she penned the public letter.


No, I'd guess that she was on the left. This person's letter basically says "I don't think we should separate acting award categories into male/female, we don't do that for director or producer, and besides I don't really fall into a category for male or female so it's hard for me personally."

I read this and kind of shrug. I say to myself, "sure, I get what they are saying about director/producer, but having separate categories for male/female is kind of fun. But I get it. But also, whatever."

But some people read that and it drives them crazy and it is somehow associated with fascism and the downfall of America that it's something really bad. I generally think of those as being on the right, but if you say you aren't on the right, then ok.

 
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I generally think of those people losing their #### over it as being on the right, but if you say you aren't on the right, then ok.
I generally think of it as more marching through institutions, so if that makes me to the right, I guess it does.

Not too long ago I came from the right. I wouldn't expect all the influences to stop. Catching me arguing for trans rights is not a corner you're catching me on, especially not when it comes to the elimination of biological sex as a category behind things. I think it's bad for society, and always did.

 

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