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Damien Harris - In the doghouse with his fumble? (1 Viewer)

Goooals

Footballguy
We all know how Bill reacts to fumbles. Harris fumbled at the most critical point in the game. The rookie fumbled earlier in the game and was never seen again. In previous years, we would most likely see a new RB get 20+ carries in the next game.

Any homers/sharks out there have any info/speculation on what's going to happen?

 
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I think Harris will get a little more leash as a reasonably proven vet, but good luck figuring out the mind of Belichick.

 
Will be interesting to see if they dress JJT this week after Harris and Stevenson both fumbled...the Harris fumble was brutal as it cost the Pats the game..

 
Have not gone full youTube investigation, but I'm not so sure Stevenson actually fumbled.  Looked like his butt was down.  Regardless, he got blown up on a blocking assignment, which is probably a magnitude worse.  If the Pats have the ball inside the two or three, maybe Stevenson gets some run and gets back in Belichick's good graces - if his blocking improves by leaps and bounds.  Luckily he has the frame to develop into a solid blocker.

 
We all know how Bill reacts to fumbles. Harris fumbled at the most point in the game. The rookie fumbled earlier in the game and was never seen again. In previous years, we would most likely see a new RB get 20+ carries in the next game.

Any homers/sharks out there have any info/speculation on what's going to happen?
The most likely outcome is Stevenson gets deactivated this week, Taylor takes his spot against the Jets, and BB limits Harris' workload some. Stevenson has had fumbling issues from high school on. He also showed up to training camp out of shape and couldn't pass his physical. So he is due to get the rookie treatment.

Harris has been a good soldier and is going on his third season. Works really hard and the coaching staff and players all love him. Fumbling hasn't been an issue for him. However, after barely being tackled in training camp, he got an extended workload against the Dolphins with Stevenson getting benched. I doubt he gets anywhere near 25 touches again this week.  IMO, he's generally a 15 carry back with a couple of dump off passes.

I doubt Taylor becomes the new flavor of the week. But he will probably get a shot at some carries if Harris needs a breather. He might even get a series or two all on his own. Sprinkle in a couple carries for White and Bolden in an emergency. At least that's how I see it.

 
I just saw Brandon Bolden is still on the roster. If I remember correctly, he started a few games a while back in this exact scenario. The Pats don't have the same options they used to have so Harris may and should get another shot. If he fumbles again, we should just send our condolences. 

 
I've heard they may cut back his workload a bit. They said he was tired at the end of the game. Unlike previous years they don't have a stable of vets they can throw in there. They still trust Harris. He's clearly their best early downs back. I have heard that Taylor may be active and Stevenson a scratch but nothings happened yet. I love him as my flex but might roll with someone else this week. If he fumbles again he might be out of there. 

 
I've heard they may cut back his workload a bit. They said he was tired at the end of the game. Unlike previous years they don't have a stable of vets they can throw in there. They still trust Harris. He's clearly their best early downs back. I have heard that Taylor may be active and Stevenson a scratch but nothings happened yet. I love him as my flex but might roll with someone else this week. If he fumbles again he might be out of there. 
They realistically can't sit Harris. They don't really have anyone with any experience behind him . . . Stevenson and Taylor are green. That would have been a viable option had MIchel still been around, but they aren't going to trot Bolden out there for more than a few carries. The last time he had more than 15 carries IN A SEASON was 2015. I guess if they really got fed up with Harris they could use White, but he's only had 10+ carries 4 times in 105 career games.

 
And Stevenson's fumble wasn't really a fumble...knee was down.
You keep pointing that out, but it doesn't make any difference. It's in the record book as a fumble. NE lost possession and that contributed to them losing the game. It's not like that was the only issue for Stevenson the past 2 months. Whether he was down or not, he got stripped of the football by a defender. That's been one of his primary issues. Similarly, BB is not going to treat a rookie (with a fumbling issue) the same as a 3rd year player (without a fumbling issue) when everyone in the building loves Harris. No one said each situation is the same or that each will be treated similarly.

It's not like Stevenson has learned to be a great pass protector, turned into a workout warrior, and has learned the full playbook since Sunday. His status on the team is not the same as Harris.

 
Quote from the RB coach:

“The one thing I preach about more than anything in the world is good ball-security,” Fears said on a videoconference call on Tuesday. “It was the classic thing that you wouldn’t expect to happen, and that was to give the ball away, give the gosh darn game away in the last few minutes of the game when we’re in scoring position. That was a hard one. That was a hard one to accept.

“For Damien, that stings, man. That stings like a son of a gun. The whole team is sitting there — everything is based — all their faith is in you. And he’s had to ride with that. He’s had to deal with that. I’ll tell you, he’s the kind of guy that’ll come out alright. He was trying to make a play. And somewhere along the line, you have to realize the situation we were in. We were in a position to win, so that’s a hard one.”

Harris had gone his first 170 NFL touches without losing a fumble. Perhaps that’s why — as critical as Fears was of Harris — the coach made it clear he was not losing faith in the running back after one tough mistake.

“I feel confident Damien is going to step up to the plate on this. I really do,” Fears said. “We have not had a problem with him, so I think we’ll be alright. I really do.”

Fears laid out what a running back should be thinking, and insinuated he wished he’d had the chance to relay these coaching points — but never got the chance in the hurry-up situation.

“No. 1, in that situation, you’ve got to understand the situation. The journey was over,” Fears said. “We didn’t need much more. He wasn’t fighting for a first down. The second it was over, protect the ball with both arms and get what you can get and let’s go down. The journey’s over. We got what we needed there. See what I’m saying? Let’s eat some clock and play the game. That was the thing to hit on with that one. I didn’t get a chance to — we were moving the ball, he was on the field. I didn’t get a chance to give him any help on that.”

 
It's not like Stevenson has learned to be a great pass protector, turned into a workout warrior, and has learned the full playbook since Sunday. His status on the team is not the same as Harris.


I agree that pass protection and experience is what sets them apart, not to mention BB's distrust of rookies.

 
And Stevenson's fumble wasn't really a fumble...knee was down.


Anarchy covered it well but I can guarantee you 100% that BB and Ivan Fears don't look at this as a non-fumble because the ref may have missed the call...the kid fumbled in pre-season as well so he is definitely on notice with this issue.

 
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It "smells like" Harris gets a pass and will get the lion's share in week 2.  I defer to Anarchy of whether they sit RS in favor of JJ....we'll find out I guess.

Now if Harris has another fumble in the next 1-2 games all bets will be off, and it will be chaos given the lack of a solid alternative (two green RBs and two specialty RBs).

 
It "smells like" Harris gets a pass and will get the lion's share in week 2.  I defer to Anarchy of whether they sit RS in favor of JJ....we'll find out I guess.

Now if Harris has another fumble in the next 1-2 games all bets will be off, and it will be chaos given the lack of a solid alternative (two green RBs and two specialty RBs).
IMO, Harris likely still has one more mulligan coming before they would consider altering his status. The last time a NE RB had more than 2 fumbles in a season was 2013. I know they put a huge emphasis on ball security and regularly practice possession drills. When they have joint practices with other teams, a lot of the opponents go "WTF are they doing and why so often?"

Here were all the times NE had a RB with 3 or more fumbles in a season since BB got there:

Faulk 2000 - 6
Dillon 2005 - 5
Smith 2001 - 4
Faulk 2003 - 4
Maroney 2009 - 4
Ridley 2013 - 4
Ridley 2012 - 4
Blount 2013 - 3
Faulk 2005 - 3
Edwards 2001 - 3

Harris really hasn't had a ton of work at the NFL level, and if he suddenly started having ball security issues in the next few weeks, it wouldn't shock me if they went back to the Rams to try to get Michel back. Maybe even Burkhead from the Texans.

 
My hope for Harris right now is that Belichick seems to hate playing unproven skill player rookies early in the year, especially one that also fumbled and can't protect his QB in pass protection. I could see Bolden getting the nod next if Harris fumbles again. 

 
I get the feeling that heading into the season, BB had to be talked into Stevenson having a consistent role and a decent workload. By extension, Hoodie had to be convinced to trade Michel when he probably didn't really want to. So when Stevenson didn't have a great start to last week's game, Bill was likely fuming at other coaches and staff. That might make Stevenson even more likely to see repercussions this week.

 
Anarchy99 said:
I get the feeling that heading into the season, BB had to be talked into Stevenson having a consistent role and a decent workload. By extension, Hoodie had to be convinced to trade Michel when he probably didn't really want to. So when Stevenson didn't have a great start to last week's game, Bill was likely fuming at other coaches and staff. That might make Stevenson even more likely to see repercussions this week.


Do you really think BB could be convinced to do something he doesn't want to do? He's been successful because he makes his own decisions.

 
Do you really think BB could be convinced to do something he doesn't want to do? He's been successful because he makes his own decisions.
Yes. This year in particular Robert Kraft made a point to go on record that the team's drafting record in recent years hasn't been very successful and they were going to be more collaborative in the war room working with scouts, coaches, consultants, etc. Bill clearly has final say, but I think there are more voices getting a chance to speak and having their opinions known. Bill certainly gets 51% of all the vote and decisions.

But I can easily see Fears getting in his ear that Stevenson is really talented, don't shut him out, he can handle it, we can turn him into something, trust me on this, etc. Taylor is also progressing, he can do a lot of things, etc. I am sure there were talks on roster construction and they had more guys than they could keep, so Bill most likely reluctantly moved Michel based on his coaches saying the RB room was solid and deep and wouldn't miss a beat without Michel.

Similarly, they could easily have kept an extra offensive lineman over Michel. Jones got pressured and hit on 1 out of every 4 drop backs against the Fins (even on short drop backs), I can envision Bill going off on people telling them that good thing they kept an extra lineman when Jones was getting hammered and then they ended up short a RB on top of it.

I can definitely see Bill going off and taking no prisoners this week. Sith Lord Belichick would not let anyone escape his wrath. Ultimately it could be a good thing, as oddly enough Bill finds losing a motivating factor to get his team to play better. He will coach them up saying they aren't all that and look what happened when they were lazy, unfocued, and unmotivated.

 
It's impossible to know what exactly Bill will do with his running backs. That said, after watching this past off-season and hearing Bill effusively praise Harris, I highly doubt Harris finds the doghouse. For three reasons:

  • Bill praised him like no other running back I've heard since like 2015
  • The fumble was one fumble and the other parts of the game were taken care of
  • There isn't anybody else, and the guy behind him also lost a fumble and couldn't complete a blocking assignment
That's my opinion. I'd personally take Anarchy99's opinion pretty seriously.

 
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I fear it will be the James White show.  I could even see BB one-upping Buffalo and deactivate Stevenson, a-la Zack Moss.  

 
Yes. This year in particular Robert Kraft made a point to go on record that the team's drafting record in recent years hasn't been very successful and they were going to be more collaborative in the war room working with scouts, coaches, consultants, etc. Bill clearly has final say, but I think there are more voices getting a chance to speak and having their opinions known. Bill certainly gets 51% of all the vote and decisions.

But I can easily see Fears getting in his ear that Stevenson is really talented, don't shut him out, he can handle it, we can turn him into something, trust me on this, etc. Taylor is also progressing, he can do a lot of things, etc. I am sure there were talks on roster construction and they had more guys than they could keep, so Bill most likely reluctantly moved Michel based on his coaches saying the RB room was solid and deep and wouldn't miss a beat without Michel.

Similarly, they could easily have kept an extra offensive lineman over Michel. Jones got pressured and hit on 1 out of every 4 drop backs against the Fins (even on short drop backs), I can envision Bill going off on people telling them that good thing they kept an extra lineman when Jones was getting hammered and then they ended up short a RB on top of it.

I can definitely see Bill going off and taking no prisoners this week. Sith Lord Belichick would not let anyone escape his wrath. Ultimately it could be a good thing, as oddly enough Bill finds losing a motivating factor to get his team to play better. He will coach them up saying they aren't all that and look what happened when they were lazy, unfocued, and unmotivated.


Agree and disagree...I agree that BB the GM is listening more, especially when it comes to the draft (thankfully because he was on a bad roll)...with regard to the RB situation I don't believe anything different is happening...Ivan Fears has been with BB since 2002 and is already in his inner-circle of trust... after 19 years with him the Fears/BB dynamic is not suddenly different...Michel was a typical BB move...he knew he was a goner after this year (and was comfortable with the RB depth) so he got rid of him a year early rather than a year late when an offer was made that he was comfortable with.

 
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My brother pointed out that Harris was gassed and asked out of the game and then came back in right before he fumbled. Stevenson is built to help them do what they were doing at the time (pound the rock and salt game away). Yea you want to send the rook a message, but in hind sight running Harris into exhaustion didn't give the team their best chance at winning.  I for one am hoping bb is smart enough to realize this and gives the new kid another chance or two.

 
it's highly unlikely that Damien Harris develops into anything significant. this is the same clown who had a couple of years to kick Sony Michel to the curb and came up empty.  how can you get behind this guy and think he's the answer? there's just no way that happens. James White is/was, and always will be the quasi #1 RB in this offense. Can we stop with the Harris nonsense already , please?

I'd be shocked if Harris goes for over 70 yards vs. the Jets of all teams, this weekend. probably the week White or someone else  goes off , while Harris grabs the clipboard and takes notes. 

 
it's highly unlikely that Damien Harris develops into anything significant. this is the same clown who had a couple of years to kick Sony Michel to the curb and came up empty.  how can you get behind this guy and think he's the answer? there's just no way that happens. James White is/was, and always will be the quasi #1 RB in this offense. Can we stop with the Harris nonsense already , please?

I'd be shocked if Harris goes for over 70 yards vs. the Jets of all teams, this weekend. probably the week White or someone else  goes off , while Harris grabs the clipboard and takes notes. 


Agree it's bizarre people are talking about an RB that just got 23 carries and a 100 yards. It was clear James White is the man. Let the mods know to shut this thread down. 

 
Lot of sports talk this week discussing Harris first carry = 35 yards, next 22 carries = 65 yards. 
You have to believe that if Stevenson starts breaking long ones like he had in the preseason it's going to matter.   IF he can fix the pass pro...big if.

 
You have to believe that if Stevenson starts breaking long ones like he had in the preseason it's going to matter.   IF he can fix the pass pro...big if.
I doubt we see Stevenson in any significant role any time soon. He may not even suit up this week. I would put him on garbage time duty for at least a month. I doubt he will see many touches when the game is still in doubt. In terms of pecking order and workload, I think what happened last week made a huge dent in his short term stock / value.

 
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I doubt we see Stevenson in any significant role any time soon. He may not even suit up this week. I would put him on garbage time duty for at least a month. I doubt he will see many touches when the game is still in doubt. In terms of pecking order and workload, I think what happen last week made a huge dent in his short term stock / value.


Seems weird given he is the best RB on the team, but I understand the intangibles mean more right now and BB's rookie history etc. etc.

 
Seems weird given he is the best RB on the team, but I understand the intangibles mean more right now and BB's rookie history etc. etc.
To be brutally honest, the only opinion of who is the best RB on the team is BB's . . . not yours, or mine, or anyone else's. I can promise you that what you consider "best" is not using the same criteria as the coaching staff, which would certainly include (in no particular order):

- Effort / time spent on improving
- Experience and maturity
- Strength and conditioning
- Health and availability
- Ball security
- Knowledge of the playbook
- Ability to adjust to audibles
- Blitz pick up
- Running plays as called
- Receiving ability
- Reliability and dependability
- Special teams value
- Trust / respect of teammates
- Coachability
- Decision making
- Off field activities
- Vaccination status
- Playing big in big moments
- How they look every day in practice
- Converting third downs / getting first downs
- Response to negative plays

So sure, Stevenson might have an advantage in elusiveness, speed, or forcing missed tackles, but he is lacking in other areas. Based on your posts in multiple threads, you seem to think those three areas account for 98% of who should be playing and who is "the best."

 
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Thinking Stevenson and Harris both get out of jail.   It's a long season and my week 2 outlook for splits looks a lot like what I was expecting for week 1.

But if they fumble again before doing some big things to contribute to Patriots victories, all bets are off.   Fire up your JJTs and James Whites for a giant spike in workload.

 
Stevenson is not active for week 2 so that's great news for Harris owners
IMO, Stevenson being active or inactive shouldn't impact Harris much. Someone was going to be their RB2 and spell Harris. With Stevenson in the doghouse last week, that caused Harris to run out of gas, ask out of the game a couple times, and ultimately likely contributed to him coughing the ball up late.

I don't think BB has any intention of giving Harris 25 touches a game. Someone else will usually get 8-10 touches a game, whether that is Stevenson or Taylor (or in prior years Michel or Burkhead, etc.).

 
Taylor is a different type of RB than Stevenson. He is more of a scat back and can't run between the tackles due to his size. Won't get GL, short yardage, etc. I think this says a lot about their confidence in Harris, but again, they don't have options since they traded away Sony. 

 
Real interested to see how JJT does...he has a potential to bring a little bit of a different dynamic to this unit...possibly like Dion Lewis did.

 
Real interested to see how JJT does...he has a potential to bring a little bit of a different dynamic to this unit...possibly like Dion Lewis did.
I think JJ is being slotted to fill a a Burkhead type role. IMO, not quite up to Lewis either as a runner or a receiver . . . But could be a mismatch depending upon how defenses line up and who covers him. 

 
I think JJ is being slotted to fill a a Burkhead type role. IMO, not quite up to Lewis either as a runner or a receiver . . . But could be a mismatch depending upon how defenses line up and who covers him. 


What is the difference between a Burkhead role and Lewis role?  Both were multi-dimensional backs (and a healthy Lewis was better and got more usage which if the usage is your point I agree)...I think JJT is more like Lewis because he brings a little more slipperiness while Burkhead was a little more north-south.

 
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What is the difference between a Burkhead role and Lewis role?  Both were multi-dimensional backs (and a healthy Lewis was better and got more usage which if the usage is your point I agree)...I think JJT is more like Lewis because he brings a little more slipperiness while Burkhead was a little more north-south.
- Smaller workload than Lewis
- Less shifty than Lewis but more elusive than Burkhead
- Not as good a receiver as Lewis or Burkhead
- So probably more carries than targets
- Burkhead usually got an entire drive to himself each half. I can see them trying that with JJ. 

 
I could see Bolden getting the nod next if Harris fumbles again. 


This is what I'm interested in...Harris is far from a proven commodity.  How will the touches be split going forward if Harris cost them another game?

 
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- Smaller workload than Lewis
- Less shifty than Lewis but more elusive than Burkhead
- Not as good a receiver as Lewis or Burkhead
- So probably more carries than targets
- Burkhead usually got an entire drive to himself each half. I can see them trying that with JJ. 


Agree with that although I do think the receiving part is still TBD...he had 32 receptions his Senior year at Arizona and I gotta believe if the Pats see anything with him long-term catching the ball has to be a big part of it.

 
Agree with that although I do think the receiving part is still TBD...he had 32 receptions his Senior year at Arizona and I gotta believe if the Pats see anything with him long-term catching the ball has to be a big part of it.
Maybe he improved some, but Fears said this summer that last year there was no way they would have put him out there as a receiving option. 

 
Maybe he improved some, but Fears said this summer that last year there was no way they would have put him out there as a receiving option. 


https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/09/01/patriots-ivan-fears-very-excited-to-see-j-j-taylor/

“The thing that sort of held him back is what he did in the passing game was a little bit limited in what we needed him to do. And he’s picked that up big time. He’s picked that up big time,” Fears said. “He’s made some great strides in the passing game, he’s a hell of a lot more productive as a route runner — whether we can catch him or coming out of the backfield. And the kid is just, he stepped up, he stepped up and figured out that he’s got to learn what we do. And he still makes some crazy ### mistakes, but for the most part, he’s doing a hell of a job for us. He really is.”

 

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