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Brutal Fight Breaks Out At New York Restaurant Over Vaccination Proof (9/18/21 3:22 PST) (1 Viewer)

GordonGekko

GordonGekko

Footballguy
VIDEO: Fight Breaks Out At New York Restaurant After Hostess Asks For Vaccination Proof Sep 17, 2021

Carmine's, a restaurant in New York City, saw violence following Mayor de Blasio's order for proof of vaccination before being allowed inside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPlW7VLUnfc

******
 

CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL

DIRECT HEADLINE: Privacy and efficacy concerns remain for New York's vaccine passport apps

“People are going with something that is completely unproven and potentially harmful,” said one privacy expert.

By Cyrus Farivar Aug. 5, 2021, 7:07 AM PDT

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/gadgets/privacy-efficacy-concerns-remain-new-york-s-vaccine-passport-apps-n1276037

One of the (many) major (logistical) problems with the two New York (vaccine passport mandate) apps is (functional) access. About 16 percent of (all) U.S. households do not (own nor) have (access to) smartphones, (and this) lack of connectivity .... “disproportionately affects low income and BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, People Of Color)  communities.”

Privacy advocates (via the ACLU and other public organizations) also fear that with time, law enforcement (and other government) agencies could use (vaccine passport mandate) apps to track people.

The Excelsior Pass ( in New York) also could have (very obvious) problems with (multiple forms of) fraud. (A security expert) showed two months ago how easy ( and quickly) it was to fraudulently (and illegally) gain access to another (New York resident's) vaccination records with (only) that person’s name and a few Google (and basic Internet) searches, conceivably enabling him to get into (any) vaccination-only venue under false pretenses.

“If I could forge the city pass in (a mere) 10 seconds and I could forge the state one in (a mere) 11 minutes, just how much protection (against COVID19 and spread of infection) are we getting?”

DIRECT HEADLINE: Judge suspends NY state vaccine mandate for health care workers who claim religious exemption

By Artemis Moshtaghian, Madeline Holcombe and Amir Vera, CNN  8:25 PM ET, Tue September 14, 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/us/new-york-covid-vaccine-mandate-lawsuit/index.html

DIRECT HEADLINE: The Great Shortage

Pandemic-related materials, food, and labor shortages make running an independent restaurant near-impossible. Here’s how three owners are doing it.

by Elazar Sontag  Sep 16, 2021, 9:27am EDT

https://www.eater.com/22675736/restaurant-labor-shortage-2021-materials-food-sourcing-delivery

VIDEO: New York City to implement nation’s 1st vaccine mandate Aug 3, 2021

Mayor Bill de Blasio announced New Yorkers will soon need to show proof of vaccination for most indoor events.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCoj9CxE-Hg

RELEVANT LAW:

Jacobson v. Massachusetts 1905 ( state obligations for mandatory vaccinations)

Zucht v. King 1922 ( regarding unvaccinated students and public education)

1964 Civil Rights Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 ( vaccines and religious exemptions for employees)

******

This is an issue with lots of great complexity to it.

- Restaurants, as such in this video, have been battered by the lock downs and the rioting and looting of 2020 and many have not survived. Their costs have also increased across the board during the pandemic. Those who remain are just trying to keep their doors open. They also create lots of jobs for Americans.  There is balance for wanting safety but also a balance for not alienating a massive share of their potential employee and customer base as well.  In many cases, these restaurants and their staff and middle level management, people just trying to earn a living, are often caught in the middle.

- There is the issue of religious exemptions, as the customer in the first video claims he and his family have a religious exemption. Now there is an issue about people's right to exercise their religion in the scope of the new pandemic filled world, relating to both as customers and also as employees.

- The next issue is how much of a difference do the mandates that Bill de Blasio are pushing actually make against denting the COVID19 problem? What other long standing conflicts will spin out from this? Now you have issues of deep legal debate, personal privacy, medical privacy, potential fraud, punishing low income minorities and the fear of a future punitive overwhelming "social credit" system that indicates more of a police state than a democracy. 

- How prevalent will these conflicts, as represented by the first video, be in the future? There is a severe economic impact if over 150 million Americans begin to be disbarred from previously routine activities. There is also the issue of the impact on essential government, federal, state and city services such as staffing for health care, sanitation, law enforcement and education.
 

I'll let people here weigh out the complexities of this issue and talk about how they feel about it.

 
My brother had his pre-wedding dinner at Carmine's. We all got together in November before his wedding in January so that the extended family could meet the bride, etc. They live in California, and had taken a trip back East, whereupon my mother summoned everybody together to feast Italian-style.

Good times back then, all things considered. I happened to be miserable that he was on his second wife because I was younger then, and a little stupid. If I had only known then what life would throw at us all, I wouldn't have dared mope on my Amtrak ride into the City where I came from Upstate CT. 

Huh.

 
Sabertooth said:
Morons using fists to settle problems.  
Click to expand...
To be honest, your postings -- yes, yours -- are the equivalent to the stupidity of a fist fight, in general. Besides that one thread you started about that ####ty nineties song.

I absolutely love it when she smiles

If anything summed up the sickness of the nineties, it was that ####e. So good work. But the rest of the time? No.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction said:
To be honest, your postings -- yes, yours -- are the equivalent to the stupidity of a fist fight, in general. Besides that one thread you started about that ####ty nineties song.

I absolutely love it when she smiles

If anything summed up the sickness of the nineties, it was that ####e. So good work. But the rest of the time? No.
Click to expand...
I don’t recall.  Wait did you mean “She likes me for meeeee?”  
 
 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Please allow private business to conduct their business.

No shirt, no shoes, no service

 
djmich said:
Interesting the religion card was played.
Click to expand...
I'm kind of torn on this one.  If a particularly pathogen is dangerous enough that we feel justified in forcing people to take a medical treatment that they don't want against their will, then it seems like those exact same concerns should also override whatever religious objections a person might offer up.  I don't really know if covid-19 is sufficiently dangerous for that, but I do think we should probably be consistent about it.

Also, I know this particular incident occurred in the context of a government mandate, which admittedly brings the first amendment into play.  But if we were talking about an individual employer or individual firm making decisions about who to hire or who to serve, they should be free to require vaccination regardless of anybody's religious views on the matter.  You're free to object to vaccines on religious grounds, and I should be free to refuse service.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I'm kind of torn on this one.  If a particularly pathogen is dangerous enough that we feel justified in forcing people to take a medical treatment that they don't want against their will, then it seems like those exact same concerns should also override whatever religious objections a person might offer up.  I don't really know if covid-19 is sufficiently dangerous for that, but I do think we should probably be consistent about it.

Also, I know this particular incident occurred in the context of a government mandate, which admittedly brings the first amendment into play.  But if we were talking about an individual employer or individual firm making decisions about who to hire or who to serve, they should be free to require vaccination regardless of anybody's religious views on the matter.  You're free to object to vaccines on religious grounds, and I should be free to refuse service.
Click to expand...
Doesn't that fly in the face of the Civil Rights Act

The Federal Civil Rights Act mandates “full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.”

Restaurants and stores qualify as “public accommodations” even if they’re a private business. As such, discrimination laws apply just as much on private property and to private businesses as they do in any public place.

 
djmich said:
Doesn't that fly in the face of the Civil Rights Act

The Federal Civil Rights Act mandates “full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.”

Restaurants and stores qualify as “public accommodations” even if they’re a private business. As such, discrimination laws apply just as much on private property and to private businesses as they do in any public place.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know, but I oppose this particular law.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Yeah, I know, but I oppose this particular law.
Click to expand...
OK.  I actually agree with you.

It's probably not a great parallel but I see some between mandatory vaccinations and anti-discrimination laws.

In general I oppose laws that unnecessarily get in the way of business and private citizens doing what they want to do and making their own decisions.  Unnecessarily of course being the key word as there will always be undesirable outcomes but at what point does government intervention become required.

So for example I am not a proponent of the government requiring vaccination, at this time.  I wish everyone did get vaccinated, it's the right thing to do.  But people who want to be safe from covid can vaccinate, wear a mask, social distance, etc.  The threat to these people does not warrant forcing medical procedures or pharmaceuticals on others....imo.

I am not a proponent of the government telling businesses or individuals who they can do business with, at this time.  I wish everyone did not discriminate, its the right thing not to do.  I think anti-discrimination laws were necessary in the past as we had a pandemic of discrimination.  I think at this point the emergency is over and government intervention is not required.  I don't think its realistic that laws like this will ever be removed...but its how I think about it.  I do think certain anti-discrimination laws should stay in place, for example around financial services.

I think the government has a role, there are no absolutes, but the bar for me is high.

 
JAA said:
Please allow private business to conduct their business.
Click to expand...


DIRECT HEADLINE: Black Lives Matter chapter to protest in support of Texas tourists accused of assaulting NYC hostess

BLM Greater NY claims vaccine passport 'will be used to keep Black people out of spaces'

By Jessica Chasmar 9/20/21

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/black-lives-matter-protest-texas-tourists-assaulting-nyc-hostess

*******

Don't think de Blasio saw this one coming. I did though.

NY establishment Democrats backed all BLM protests before, so they are stuck now. If de Blasio tries to interfere, he'll be called a racist.

Accusations are being made someone who worked at Carmines used the "N-word" to the subject of the video.

Again, there are multiple levels of complexity to this situation. There are people in the embattled and battered restaurant industry just trying to survive. People working there are just trying to earn a living and feed their kids. On the flip side, there are patrons who just want some return to normalcy and some escapism to the harsh 2020 we all just endured. Public safety, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, medical privacy, this is all a big mess and there are no simple answers.

 
GordonGekko said:
DIRECT HEADLINE: Black Lives Matter chapter to protest in support of Texas tourists accused of assaulting NYC hostess

BLM Greater NY claims vaccine passport 'will be used to keep Black people out of spaces'

By Jessica Chasmar 9/20/21

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/black-lives-matter-protest-texas-tourists-assaulting-nyc-hostess

*******

Don't think de Blasio saw this one coming. I did though.

NY establishment Democrats backed all BLM protests before, so they are stuck now. If de Blasio tries to interfere, he'll be called a racist.

Accusations are being made someone who worked at Carmines used the "N-word" to the subject of the video.

Again, there are multiple levels of complexity to this situation. There are people in the embattled and battered restaurant industry just trying to survive. People working there are just trying to earn a living and feed their kids. On the flip side, there are patrons who just want some return to normalcy and some escapism to the harsh 2020 we all just endured. Public safety, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, medical privacy, this is all a big mess and there are no simple answers.
Click to expand...


I would actually support (in spirit) BLM over this case if it was simply about Vax passports working against minorities. But this.....

The group and its founder have been promoting the hashtags #CancelCarmines and #ProtectBlackWomen ahead of a protest and press conference to take place at 5 p.m. outside Carmine’s Italian restaurant in the Upper West Side.
Click to expand...
if it is about vax passports, why are they doing it in front of Carmines? Ohhh right, because of an unfounded claim that the N word was used....after the video of the AA diners physically assaulting a hostess for doing her job (I'm sure she does not enjoy turning away diners, but the city made it her job). 

if this was solely over Vax passports, BLM would be doing nothing. But throw in hearsay allegations and now its all about canceling a famous NYC Dining institution that is already hurting (along with most NYC restaurants). But also lets just excuse the diners—who may actually be in the wrong for not following NYC orders—for physically attacking an employee and not handling a disagreement like adults. But who cares about that?

 
when the 200,000 coming across the border illegally have to prove vaccine ID's .... when the UN meeting has to prove vaccine ID's .... when all voters have to show ID before they vote ..... then I'll be a little more open to showing ID's to get into a restaurant 

until then, its bullying someone into forcing a medical decision they don't want and its not respecting/tolerating/accepting other people's views/opinions on vaccines 

 
Stealthycat said:
when the 200,000 coming across the border illegally have to prove vaccine ID's .... when the UN meeting has to prove vaccine ID's .... when all voters have to show ID before they vote ..... then I'll be a little more open to showing ID's to get into a restaurant 

until then, its bullying someone into forcing a medical decision they don't want and its not respecting/tolerating/accepting other people's views/opinions on vaccines 
Click to expand...
weird let me try

it's bullying someone into forcing a medical decision they don't want and it's not respecting/tolerating/accepting other people's views/opinions on abortion..

 
Stealthycat said:
when the 200,000 coming across the border illegally have to prove vaccine ID's .... when the UN meeting has to prove vaccine ID's .... when all voters have to show ID before they vote ..... then I'll be a little more open to showing ID's to get into a restaurant 

until then, its bullying someone into forcing a medical decision they don't want and its not respecting/tolerating/accepting other people's views/opinions on vaccines 
Click to expand...
It's not bullying.  If you can't play by the rules, don't play.  I always see you advocating "choices" for people.  Make your own choice to not go where you aren't wanted.  

 
Stealthycat said:
when the 200,000 coming across the border illegally have to prove vaccine ID's .... when the UN meeting has to prove vaccine ID's .... when all voters have to show ID before they vote ..... then I'll be a little more open to showing ID's to get into a restaurant 

until then, its bullying someone into forcing a medical decision they don't want and its not respecting/tolerating/accepting other people's views/opinions on vaccines 
Click to expand...
It's not bullying.  If you can't play by the rules, don't play.  I always see you advocating "choices" for people.  Make your own choice to not go where you aren't wanted.  In the service industry every restaurant and store has the right to refuse service to anyone. 

Not bullying.  

 
Prinefan said:
It's not bullying.  If you can't play by the rules, don't play.  I always see you advocating "choices" for people.  Make your own choice to not go where you aren't wanted.  
Click to expand...


bullying is when you are harming, coercing and/or intimidating people into doing what you want them to do and taking away dining/gym/recreation etc is exactly that

all to force people to do what you want them to do

the rules/laws just got added - they can be reversed tonight as well - but remember next time you are being forced to do something you don't want to do that hey, its all ok, its all good, .... right ? 

 
Prinefan said:
It's not bullying.  If you can't play by the rules, don't play.  I always see you advocating "choices" for people.  Make your own choice to not go where you aren't wanted.  In the service industry every restaurant and store has the right to refuse service to anyone. 

Not bullying.  
Click to expand...
This is coming from the person who says people are choosing poverty and that it's pretty easy to relocate and find work.   I wouldn't think this would be a big deal for people that think this way.   Can't be that hard to find a job that doesn't require this.  

 
Prinefan said:
It's not bullying.  If you can't play by the rules, don't play.  I always see you advocating "choices" for people.  Make your own choice to not go where you aren't wanted.  
Click to expand...


can we make rules to keep people away that we don't want to come here based on vaccination ? skin color ? religion? citizenship ?

that's a great idea isn't it ?  :(  

 
KarmaPolice said:
This is coming from the person who says people are choosing poverty and that it's pretty easy to relocate and find work.   I wouldn't think this would be a big deal for people that think this way.   Can't be that hard to find a job that doesn't require this.  
Click to expand...


nobody is forcing anyone to be wealthy or in poverty - if that were something being mandated yes, I'd not like it and call it so

you're right though - if company's say no shot no work, abortion no work, wrong religion choice no work, wrong weight no work etc, I guess we can all just quit and do something else ?

 
Stealthycat said:
nobody is forcing anyone to be wealthy or in poverty - if that were something being mandated yes, I'd not like it and call it so

you're right though - if company's say no shot no work, abortion no work, wrong religion choice no work, wrong weight no work etc, I guess we can all just quit and do something else ?
Click to expand...
What the hell are you talking about?

 
KarmaPolice said:
This is coming from the person who says people are choosing poverty and that it's pretty easy to relocate and find work.   I wouldn't think this would be a big deal for people that think this way.   Can't be that hard to find a job that doesn't require this.  
Click to expand...
Huh.  Do you just make up stuff?  I never said anything like this.  The big deal is the un-vaxxed trying to bully the people hoping to make our country safe for everyone.  Those are the only bullies I see every day on the street and in here.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
GordonGekko said:
VIDEO: Fight Breaks Out At New York Restaurant After Hostess Asks For Vaccination Proof Sep 17, 2021

Carmine's, a restaurant in New York City, saw violence following Mayor de Blasio's order for proof of vaccination before being allowed inside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPlW7VLUnfc

******
 

CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL

DIRECT HEADLINE: Privacy and efficacy concerns remain for New York's vaccine passport apps

“People are going with something that is completely unproven and potentially harmful,” said one privacy expert.

By Cyrus Farivar Aug. 5, 2021, 7:07 AM PDT

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/gadgets/privacy-efficacy-concerns-remain-new-york-s-vaccine-passport-apps-n1276037

One of the (many) major (logistical) problems with the two New York (vaccine passport mandate) apps is (functional) access. About 16 percent of (all) U.S. households do not (own nor) have (access to) smartphones, (and this) lack of connectivity .... “disproportionately affects low income and BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, People Of Color)  communities.”

Privacy advocates (via the ACLU and other public organizations) also fear that with time, law enforcement (and other government) agencies could use (vaccine passport mandate) apps to track people.

The Excelsior Pass ( in New York) also could have (very obvious) problems with (multiple forms of) fraud. (A security expert) showed two months ago how easy ( and quickly) it was to fraudulently (and illegally) gain access to another (New York resident's) vaccination records with (only) that person’s name and a few Google (and basic Internet) searches, conceivably enabling him to get into (any) vaccination-only venue under false pretenses.

“If I could forge the city pass in (a mere) 10 seconds and I could forge the state one in (a mere) 11 minutes, just how much protection (against COVID19 and spread of infection) are we getting?”

DIRECT HEADLINE: Judge suspends NY state vaccine mandate for health care workers who claim religious exemption

By Artemis Moshtaghian, Madeline Holcombe and Amir Vera, CNN  8:25 PM ET, Tue September 14, 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/us/new-york-covid-vaccine-mandate-lawsuit/index.html

DIRECT HEADLINE: The Great Shortage

Pandemic-related materials, food, and labor shortages make running an independent restaurant near-impossible. Here’s how three owners are doing it.

by Elazar Sontag  Sep 16, 2021, 9:27am EDT

https://www.eater.com/22675736/restaurant-labor-shortage-2021-materials-food-sourcing-delivery

VIDEO: New York City to implement nation’s 1st vaccine mandate Aug 3, 2021

Mayor Bill de Blasio announced New Yorkers will soon need to show proof of vaccination for most indoor events.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCoj9CxE-Hg

RELEVANT LAW:

Jacobson v. Massachusetts 1905 ( state obligations for mandatory vaccinations)

Zucht v. King 1922 ( regarding unvaccinated students and public education)

1964 Civil Rights Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 ( vaccines and religious exemptions for employees)

******

This is an issue with lots of great complexity to it.

- Restaurants, as such in this video, have been battered by the lock downs and the rioting and looting of 2020 and many have not survived. Their costs have also increased across the board during the pandemic. Those who remain are just trying to keep their doors open. They also create lots of jobs for Americans.  There is balance for wanting safety but also a balance for not alienating a massive share of their potential employee and customer base as well.  In many cases, these restaurants and their staff and middle level management, people just trying to earn a living, are often caught in the middle.

- There is the issue of religious exemptions, as the customer in the first video claims he and his family have a religious exemption. Now there is an issue about people's right to exercise their religion in the scope of the new pandemic filled world, relating to both as customers and also as employees.

- The next issue is how much of a difference do the mandates that Bill de Blasio are pushing actually make against denting the COVID19 problem? What other long standing conflicts will spin out from this? Now you have issues of deep legal debate, personal privacy, medical privacy, potential fraud, punishing low income minorities and the fear of a future punitive overwhelming "social credit" system that indicates more of a police state than a democracy. 

- How prevalent will these conflicts, as represented by the first video, be in the future? There is a severe economic impact if over 150 million Americans begin to be disbarred from previously routine activities. There is also the issue of the impact on essential government, federal, state and city services such as staffing for health care, sanitation, law enforcement and education.
 

I'll let people here weigh out the complexities of this issue and talk about how they feel about it.
Click to expand...




"You are not American?  Get out of this country?"   That is hate crime language.

 
Dickies said:
What the hell are you talking about?
Click to expand...


the extents we need to go to in society with businesses or cities etc to make sure their work force or citizens complies with company ideals

like for example, if a company believes in the covid shot, they need to threaten all employee's with being fired if they don't comply right? if a city wants everyone vaccinated, stop them from going to restaurants (to get food) and gyms (to stay in good health) and force them to comply right ?

if we need those (and obviously ya'll think we do) then we also need the enforce other ideals / beliefs too in the name of company/town ideas/beliefs

 
Stealthycat said:
the extents we need to go to in society with businesses or cities etc to make sure their work force or citizens complies with company ideals

like for example, if a company believes in the covid shot, they need to threaten all employee's with being fired if they don't comply right? if a city wants everyone vaccinated, stop them from going to restaurants (to get food) and gyms (to stay in good health) and force them to comply right ?

if we need those (and obviously ya'll think we do) then we also need the enforce other ideals / beliefs too in the name of company/town ideas/beliefs
Click to expand...
Just because you say "right" after stating one of your thoughts does not necessarily make it so.  Right?

 
Prinefan said:
Huh.  Do you just make up stuff?  I never said anything like this.  The big deal is the un-vaxxed trying to bully the people hoping to make our country safe for everyone.  Those are the only bullies I see every day on the street and in here.  
Click to expand...
Didn't say you did.  SC has though, which is who you were quoting.  

 
Prinefan said:
The big deal is the un-vaxxed trying to bully the people hoping to make our country safe for everyone
Click to expand...


so the un-vaxxed, the people your side is trying to force to get shots, are bullying people by simply wanting to be left alone ?

that's an amazing shift of blame isn't it ? 

why exactly are unvaccinated people like myself trying to get other people to do ? I don't care if you get the shot, or two, or twenty shots ... that's literally the opposite of bullying someone 

 
Stealthycat said:
so the un-vaxxed, the people your side is trying to force to get shots, are bullying people by simply wanting to be left alone ?

that's an amazing shift of blame isn't it ? 

why exactly are unvaccinated people like myself trying to get other people to do ? I don't care if you get the shot, or two, or twenty shots ... that's literally the opposite of bullying someone 
Click to expand...
Where does passing someone a deadly virus fall on your spectrum of bullying?

 
Dickies said:
Where does passing someone a deadly virus fall on your spectrum of bullying?
Click to expand...


if I'm forcing you to take the virus from me then yes that'd be bullying I suppose

like - a business says you can worth with covid positive people or lose your job - your choice .....  that would be coercing/forcing someone to do something they didn't want to do right ?

 
the rover said:
weird let me try

it's bullying someone into forcing a medical decision they don't want and it's not respecting/tolerating/accepting other people's views/opinions on abortion..
Click to expand...
One is a question of personal choice regarding a substance being introduced into the body. The other is a question of whether or not it is murder of a human coming out of a body.   It's very different, although interesting that you draw that parralel because you stand on "my body, my choice" ...until it's someone else's body and someone else's choice. 

 
Shutout said:
One is a question of personal choice regarding a substance being introduced into the body. The other is a question of whether or not it is murder of a human coming out of a body.   It's very different, although interesting that you draw that parralel because you stand on "my body, my choice" ...until it's someone else's body and someone else's choice. 
Click to expand...
they're both a question of personal choice. one is just stupid and selfish.  the other is abortion.

 
the rover said:
they're both a question of personal choice. one is just stupid and selfish.  the other is abortion.
Click to expand...
That's your opinion. You'd likely be less wound up about it if you realized what you just  said...they are both personal choice.  Your issue is you are so unwilling to accept another person's CHOICE that it upsets you to the point you call it names.  

It is telling that you're quick to call abortion, a literal decision of life and death, an issue that's simply a choice.  No big deal. Yet, your'e willing to come on here each and every day and vent to a forum about how intolerable it is that someone else have the audacity to exercise their "stupid and selfish" choice regarding a shot based largely on the degree to which it inconveniences You. 

 
Shutout said:
how intolerable it is that someone else have the audacity to exercise their "stupid and selfish" choice regarding a shot based largely on the degree to which it inconveniences You. 
Click to expand...
It's not how it affects "You" but society as a whole. It is easy to tolerate people who are unvaccinated as I feel reasonably protected. The drain to public health of those that decided to not get the shot is already substantial and not slowing. It was an audacious choice to ignore the risk to your future and your family's over memes. Godspeed.

 
I think it's absolute bs that there are no mandates targeting people of lower socioeconomic status.  How about having to be vaccinated to get on a bus, or collect welfare?  No, only if you work at a company that does business with the federal government.  My company mandated it, and from a previous poll 96% were vaccinated.  How about vaccinating some of the people coming over the boarder?  That's very likely how I got it.  A Cuban lady at my wife's company paid for her son to come over in one of those caravans.  Got my wife sick, me, and several others.

 
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