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An NYU professor says fewer men going to college will lead to a 'mating crisis' with the US producing too many 'lone and broke' men (1 Viewer)

Caveman33

Footballguy
I'm curious about everyone's thoughts.  My opinion of higher education likely differs greatly from the professor's but I don't necessarily disagree with his conclusion.

https://www.insider.com/growing-trend-fewer-men-in-college-leading-to-mating-crisis-2021-9

Fewer men than women are attending college which is leading towards a "mating crisis," New York University professor Scott Galloway told CNN on Saturday. 

Women made up 59.5% of college students at the end of the 2020-2021 school year, an all-time high, the Wall Street Journal reported earlier this month. That's in comparison to 40.5% of men enrolled in college. 

Data from the National Center for Education Statistics found that in 1970, men made up close to 59% of those enrolled in college, compared to around 41% of women who were enrolled. 

Additionally, the Journal reported that in the next few years the education gap will widen so that for every one man that earns a college degree, two women would have earned one. 

Galloway told CNN that the problem is much bigger than just the current numbers because men drop out at greater rates than women.

"College is becoming the domain of women and not men," he said. 

The issue he said is being driven by the rising cost of college without much change to the quality of going to college. Elite universities he said are focused on giving a luxury experience and not expanding enrollment. 

Additionally, he said, college-aged men, have more options beyond college at that age than women. 

"You can walk onto a construction site in Florida, you can turn on an app, cop, firemen, trade job which at the age of 18 if you can make $100 to $200 a day that feels like real cabbage," he said. 

But Galloway warned that beyond the classroom, the gap is causing an "existential threat to society," and that we are creating a "dangerous cohort."

"We have mating inequality in the country," he said, adding that women with college degrees don't want to partner with men who don't hold a degree. 

"The most dangerous person in the world is a broke and lone male and we are producing too many of them," he said. 

He said the most "unstable violent societies in the world," all have one thing in common: "Young depressed men who aren't attaching to work, aren't attaching to school, and aren't attaching to relationships."

The Journal reported that there's no "reversal" insight for this gap. Women make up 49% of college-age people in the country, but in the 2021-2022 school year, there were 3,805,978 Common App college applications by women compared to just 2,815,810 by men. 

In the fall of 2020, while the University of California Los Angeles expanded enrollment by 3,000 students, 90% of those spots were filled by women. That same semester, only 41% of those enrolled in UCLA were men, the Journal reported. 

UCLA Vice Provost Youlonda Copeland-Morgan told the Journal men's applications are not more competitive but fewer men apply.

"Men are falling behind remarkably fast," Thomas Mortenson, a senior scholar at the Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education, told the Journal. 



 
I'm curious about everyone's thoughts.  My opinion of higher education likely differs greatly from the professor's but I don't necessarily disagree with his conclusion.

https://www.insider.com/growing-trend-fewer-men-in-college-leading-to-mating-crisis-2021-9


All this because they aren't attending college?  Wut?  Absurd.  Sounds more like the higher education grifters are worried they won't be able to rake enough people over the coals in the future.  People are on to their game.

College is not really worth it if you're not in a STEM field.  It's ridiculously expensive and not worth the ROI if you're not in one of those fields.  It's also become a haven for far-left bubble thought and propaganda.  College is a bad investment nowadays for 95% of the population.

Let's address real problems, like the single-motherhood rate.

 
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Interesting topic. Have seen these stats and it’s hard to make a call on it without making seemingly sweeping generalizations about men and women.

The article alludes to the fact that men are more likely to go into trades that don’t require a college degree. Those tradesmen shouldn’t be discounted, it feels like that’s what’s happening here a bit.

It seems a working hypothesis might be that women 16-24 are smarter and harder working in their scholastics, and therefore more likely to go to college. But I’d need to see data on that. I’d also like to see how this breaks down geographically, by region of the country and by urban, suburban and rural locations.

 
Interesting topic. Have seen these stats and it’s hard to make a call on it without making seemingly sweeping generalizations about men and women.

The article alludes to the fact that men are more likely to go into trades that don’t require a college degree. Those tradesmen shouldn’t be discounted, it feels like that’s what’s happening here a bit.

It seems a working hypothesis might be that women 16-24 are smarter and harder working in their scholastics, and therefore more likely to go to college. But I’d need to see data on that. I’d also like to see how this breaks down geographically, by region of the country and by urban, suburban and rural locations.
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/2016-sat-test-results-confirm-pattern-thats-persisted-for-45-years-high-school-boys-are-better-at-math-than-girls/

High school girls get better grades than boys but the boys score significantly higher on standardized math tests.  Grades are subjectively given by teachers.

 
All this because they aren't attending college?  Wut?  Absurd.

College is not really worth it if you're not in a STEM field.  It's ridiculously expensive and not worth the ROI if you're not in one of those fields.  It's also become a haven for far-left bubble thought and propaganda.  College is a bad investment nowadays for 95% of the population.

Let's address real problems, like the single-motherhood rate.
Lawyers, accountants, financial advisors, economists, marketing specialists, teachers, and a litany of other professions too long to list outside of STEM are degree driven.

The propaganda about colleges being a far left bubble or whatever is something I hadn’t considered. Perhaps men are more likely to buy into that trope and that’s a contributing factor to lower male enrollment.

I do agree there are worthless degrees, and if men are less likely to pursue those that would seem to be a good decision. 

 
Lawyers, accountants, financial advisors, economists, marketing specialists, teachers, and a litany of other professions too long to list outside of STEM are degree driven.

The propaganda about colleges being a far left bubble or whatever is something I hadn’t considered. Perhaps men are more likely to buy into that trope and that’s a contributing factor to lower male enrollment.

I do agree there are worthless degrees, and if men are less likely to pursue those that would seem to be a good decision. 


Not really, IMO.

And as far as colleges NOT being a far-left bubble we're just going to have to disagree.  I think for anyone who is paying attention it's so obvious you simply can't deny it anymore.  But, whatever.   My bigger point is that college is not worth the ROI anymore.  It's just a way to grift money.  So to associate that with men not going to college as "lonely and broken" is ridiculous.

I would argue that accountants, financial advisors and economists fall under STEM as well.

I would also argue needing a fancy degree for "teaching" is unnecessary.  Teaching, by far, exemplifies one of those professions where the ROI is extremely negative.  I would think 2 years is enough.

And we certainly don't need anymore lawyers.  I hope we can at least agree on that.  :hifive:

 
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The professor is right, but for the wrong reasons.

The "mating crisis" will not happen because men drop out.

It will happen because women don't drop out, either.
 
The professor is right, but for the wrong reasons.

The "mating crisis" will not happen because men drop out.

It will happen because women don't drop out, either.
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993817146/u-s-birth-rate-fell-by-4-in-2020-hitting-another-record-low

When he says mating crisis, I assume he is referring to the replacement rate which has been trending down for a long time.  It does coincide with the feminist movement and the increase in women attending college.  You make a good point about more women deciding to pursue careers.

 
Not really, IMO.

And as far as colleges NOT being a far-left bubble we're just going to have to disagree.  I think for anyone who is paying attention it's so obvious you simply can't deny it anymore.  But, whatever.   My bigger point is that college is not worth the ROI anymore.  It's just a way to grift money.  So to associate that with men not going to college as "lonely and broken" is ridiculous.

I would argue that accountants, financial advisors and economists fall under STEM as well.

And we certainly don't need anymore lawyers.  I hope we can at least agree on that.  :hifive:
In today's society, college has become an extension of high school.  Specialized careers certainly need specialized training but who is benefiting from the basic education offered by college? A lot of people highlight the benefits of socializing, maturing, and networking.  As a measure of aptitude or ability, I think college is worthless and grade inflation supports this belief.  But having a college degree has become a prerequisite for most white-collar careers.   I guess the professor is arguing that educated women have the same prerequisite for their potential partners. 

 
I don't know about this professor's hypothesis. I just want to push back a bit when people say "many degrees are worthless" or college is a scam or whatever. 

College is about much more than job training. Its about learning. And becoming a well-rounded, productive, thinking member of society. Majoring in the arts, for example, helps you do that. A lot. 

And I get that arts degrees or social science or whatever may not have the greatest ROI. And certainly students on low means should absolutely consider that when majoring. Tuition has increased drastically in the last couple of decades. 

But if you can afford it, college is a wonderful place to learn about more than just what electron you'll be plotting (or whatever) for the next 50 years.

 
Not really, IMO.

And as far as colleges NOT being a far-left bubble we're just going to have to disagree.  I think for anyone who is paying attention it's so obvious you simply can't deny it anymore.  But, whatever.   My bigger point is that college is not worth the ROI anymore.  It's just a way to grift money.  So to associate that with men not going to college as "lonely and broken" is ridiculous.

I would argue that accountants, financial advisors and economists fall under STEM as well.

I would also argue needing a fancy degree for "teaching" is unnecessary.  Teaching, by far, exemplifies one of those professions where the ROI is extremely negative.  I would think 2 years is enough.

And we certainly don't need anymore lawyers.  I hope we can at least agree on that.  :hifive:
I think there’s actually a good amount of common ground here. We agree there are worthless degrees, and I’d agree that some college campuses are the left-leaning identity consumed types, particularly the private liberal arts colleges. My degrees are in business from state universities, business school tends to be more politically agnostic imo, and the state universities allow for a better ROI if students choose a worthwhile degree in part because of lower costs of attending a state university vs. a private. 

 
It's not the men who will be broke and lonely. It will be women. That has been the trend the last 10 years and will only continue. 

 
Lots of colleges have been giving male applicants soft affirmative action for years now specifically because we've seen this gender imbalance coming for a while now.  It's a genuine sociological problem that doesn't admit an easy solution.  As the father of a college-educated son, I'm a little jealous.  As the father of a daughter currently in college, I feel bad for her.

 
I don't know about this professor's hypothesis. I just want to push back a bit when people say "many degrees are worthless" or college is a scam or whatever. 

College is about much more than job training. Its about learning. And becoming a well-rounded, productive, thinking member of society. Majoring in the arts, for example, helps you do that. A lot. 

And I get that arts degrees or social science or whatever may not have the greatest ROI. And certainly students on low means should absolutely consider that when majoring. Tuition has increased drastically in the last couple of decades. 

But if you can afford it, college is a wonderful place to learn about more than just what electron you'll be plotting (or whatever) for the next 50 years.


College is simply not worth it from an investment of $$$ perspective for MOST degrees.  That is the #1 PRIMARY and most important part for almost all families.

All that other stuff you mentioned is fluff. Besides, when colleges are pumping out kids who are afraid of opposing opinions and need safe spaces in order to study and who feel that their #1 job is to be a SJW, then I would say colleges aren't doing their job.

It doesn't matter if you're a well-rounded person if you can't support yourself OR your family.  Instead of being well-rounded, I would prefer we focus on what kids actually want to do for a living and NOT require them to take interpretive dance for a computer science major, for example.  I'd rather have kids proficient at what they want to do instead of wasting money on classes they'll never use.

 
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College is simply not worth it from an investment of $$$ perspective for MOST degrees.  That is the #1 PRIMARY and most important part for almost all families.

All that other stuff you mentioned is fluff. Besides, when colleges are pumping out kids who are afraid of opposing opinions and need safe spaces in order to study and who feel that their #1 job is to be a SJW, then I would say colleges aren't doing their job.

It doesn't matter if you're a well-rounded person if you can't support yourself OR your family.  Instead of being well-rounded, I would prefer we focus on what kids actually want to do for a living and NOT require them to take interpretive dance for a computer science major, for example.  I'd rather have kids proficient at what they want to do instead of wasting money on classes they'll never use.


I reckon this is our fundamental disagreement.

 
Lots of colleges have been giving male applicants soft affirmative action for years now specifically because we've seen this gender imbalance coming for a while now.  It's a genuine sociological problem that doesn't admit an easy solution.  As the father of a college-educated son, I'm a little jealous.  As the father of a daughter currently in college, I feel bad for her.
This would 100% be my pitch if I had a son uncertain about attending college. 

 
I think it is faulty to look at going to college as simply a mathematical formula related to ROI. College is an experience that was well worth the debt I accrued. :shrug:


And what experience was that?  How much debt did this "experience" ultimately cost you out of pocket?  Other than your "experience", did that debt equate to a comparable job?

Going to college is not some couple thousand dollar trip to Europe - "Oh you'll love it!  Enjoy the experience!" -  for the summer as you seem to be making it out to be.   We're talking mid-to-high tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for someone starting out here.  That's not insignificant.

What good is the "experience" if it doesn't ultimately equate to a comparable job and/or makes you miserable because you're in debt up to your eyeballs for a good portion of your life?

 
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And what experience was that?  How much debt did this "experience" ultimately cost you out of pocket?  Other than your "experience", did that debt equate to a comparable job?

Going to college is not some couple thousand dollar trip to Europe - "Oh you'll love it!  Enjoy the experience!" -  for the summer as you seem to be making it out to be.   We're talking mid-to-high tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for someone starting out here.  That's not insignificant.

What good is the "experience" if it doesn't ultimately equate to a comparable job and/or makes you miserable because you're in debt up to your eyeballs for a good portion of your life?
Pretty Good ROI

Men with bachelor's degrees earn approximately $900,000 more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with bachelor's degrees earn $630,000 more. Men with graduate degrees earn $1.5 million more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with graduate degrees earn $1.1 million more.

 
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Of course it does.  If women stop wanting to get married to men (due to men not having college degrees), do you think that will increase or decrease the rate of single motherhood?


I don't think anyone can determine that.  I think you're making a pretty big leap here in defense of your argument.  Like, a SUPER big leap.

Ask yourself this:  are you making this leap to try and stick it to me and get in a "gotcha!"?  Or do you really think men not going to college is actually going to increase the single mother-hood rate?  I think if you REALLY think about it, you're doing #1 here, not #2.

I mean, we've already got a single-motherhood rate and men are going to college the last 30+ years.  I would think that maybe the opposite might be true based upon our current situation.  No degree = no fun.  :shrug:

Besides, women control access to sex, not men.  Men control access to marriage.  If we have a single-motherhood problem it's not because all women are being raped by men and having babies against their will, it's because those women are making bad choices.  So I think your argument is misdirected at best.  That's a discussion for another thread, though.

 
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We need more People in trades than another college bustout who is in debt up to their eyes.


Yep. Exactly my point.  We still need plumbers, electricians, HVAC specialists and all kinds of tech trades.  This whole idea that "you must go to college or you're a LOSER" is what started universities on the grifting path.  It's not about making student's "well-rounded", it's about money and getting as much of it as possible.

"We're going to be short this year on the budget.  That means we can't add a new wing on to the school and you won't get a raise."

"Okay, let's require all of our 50K+ students to take interpretive dance, greek mythology and latin and charge $$$$$ for it."

 
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Yep. Exactly my point.  We still need plumbers, electricians, HVAC specialists and all kinds of tech trades.  This whole idea that "you must go to college or you're a LOSER" is what started universities on the grifting path.  It's not about making student's "well-rounded", it's about money and getting as much of it as possible.

"We're going to be short this year on the budget.  That means we can't add a new wing on to the school and you won't get a raise."

"Okay, let's require all out students to take interpretive dance, greek mythology and latin and charge $$$$$ for it."
I have three HVAC business owners in my neighborhood, all started from scratch (outside of trade school).  I think they will be ok. Oh, one is advertising starting pay at $30/hour.  Maybe I’ll send some liberal arts majors his way.

 
Sounds like the problem isn’t that too few men are graduating college; it sounds like educated women are too picky.  :coffee:

 
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Thanks for the link.  Interesting. Well, turns out going to college you do end making more money in the long run.

I can't shake the feeling we're missing something here, though.  This seems too easy especially when students/parents are screaming for loan forgiveness and free education.
I've never looked in detail at the studies that show college grads earning 50-75% more but I assume they are looking at lifetime earnings so the most recent college grads included would be circa 1985.  More low earning college grads in recent decades could pull that down.  Also, there may be extreme disparity in earnings for college grads causing the mean to be higher than the median.  Just my uninformed thoughts, I could be wrong on all accounts. 

 
We need more People in trades than another college bustout who is in debt up to their eyes.
I recently tried to join an apprentice program for a trade union.  I was told there was a 2 year waiting list.  But I've also talked to others who had connections and were able to skip the waiting list and join immediately.  Even in the trades, it helps to be connected.

 
I'm curious about everyone's thoughts. 


America does not have a mating crisis. It does have a looming and pervasive "marriage crisis" and "birth rate crisis"

No new children, no new taxpayers. With people living longer and longer and advancements in modern medicine, that's a problem. Allowing immigration in a broad scale doesn't solve the problem either.

Unless you want children, there is basically no incentive for the modern man, esp someone college aged, to even begin to consider marriage. Level of education is a earning potential check mark thus a commitment check mark thus a marriage discussion checkmark, and NOT a specific "mating" one. 

Something else to consider is the core demographic here in the FBG forums is male and also likely somewhere in their 40's-50's. The entire dating/mating/marriage/having kids scenario and spectrum is vastly different than someone who is college aged today. Same thing for home ownership, retirement and understanding a world before social media/instant information.

Your level of education matters in a commitment scenario. It denotes things about earning power and commonality, which are commitment based issues. If young men have no reason to commit, then it doesn't matter. Young women, lots of them, are not looking for marriage right away. They want a guy who looks good naked and is fun and has high social status and whom her worst rival in the world wants badly.

More young men are more "Red Pill'ed" than ever before. ( One of my young IT guys had to explain this entire movement to me) 

I don't want my godson to commit to a girl who gave her best years to Tinder. When she's on Tinder, do you think she's looking at level of education?  That kind of stuff only matters when you are looking for someone to pay the mortgage.

A rare few of you here in these forums might have lucked out. You grew up before Tinder and Snapface and OnlyThots and MyHump or whatever other crap is out there. But have some perspective that a 22 year old today is in a vastly different situation than you. I'll be honest, if I didn't raise my godson, and didn't have such a massive age gap, I probably wouldn't understand either.

Many of you have sons. I'd like to think most of you want your sons to love themselves and value themselves more than to be someone's safe bet to pay the mortgage after their intended kept giving up their prime years to free grazers.

Old Man Gekko has no love for free grazers. No free lunches. You have to give to get.  If it was up to me, I'd make Sigmund Bloom start executing all the non-subscribers today.

A key that can open any lock is worth it's weight in gold. A lock that can be opened by any random key in the village is completely worthless.

 
I recently tried to join an apprentice program for a trade union.  I was told there was a 2 year waiting list.  But I've also talked to others who had connections and were able to skip the waiting list and join immediately.  Even in the trades, it helps to be connected.
Good luck with the program.  

 
Good luck with the program.  
Not sure if you're joking.  I don't have connections and did not feel like waiting 2 years so I instead used my GI Bill on a scam trade school.  I'm still getting paid but not progressing towards a future in the trades.

 
Not sure if you're joking.  I don't have connections and did not feel like waiting 2 years so I instead used my GI Bill on a scam trade school.  I'm still getting paid but not progressing towards a future in the trades.
I’m serious.  I’m in a area that was heavily involved with tool and die and other trades.  It’s sad when high schools cut out woodworking and metal trades, they are very important.  

 
America does not have a mating crisis. It does have a looming and pervasive "marriage crisis" and "birth rate crisis"

No new children, no new taxpayers. With people living longer and longer and advancements in modern medicine, that's a problem. Allowing immigration in a broad scale doesn't solve the problem either.

Unless you want children, there is basically no incentive for the modern man, esp someone college aged, to even begin to consider marriage. Level of education is a earning potential check mark thus a commitment check mark thus a marriage discussion checkmark, and NOT a specific "mating" one. 

Something else to consider is the core demographic here in the FBG forums is male and also likely somewhere in their 40's-50's. The entire dating/mating/marriage/having kids scenario and spectrum is vastly different than someone who is college aged today. Same thing for home ownership, retirement and understanding a world before social media/instant information.

Your level of education matters in a commitment scenario. It denotes things about earning power and commonality, which are commitment based issues. If young men have no reason to commit, then it doesn't matter. Young women, lots of them, are not looking for marriage right away. They want a guy who looks good naked and is fun and has high social status and whom her worst rival in the world wants badly.

More young men are more "Red Pill'ed" than ever before. ( One of my young IT guys had to explain this entire movement to me) 

I don't want my godson to commit to a girl who gave her best years to Tinder. When she's on Tinder, do you think she's looking at level of education?  That kind of stuff only matters when you are looking for someone to pay the mortgage.

A rare few of you here in these forums might have lucked out. You grew up before Tinder and Snapface and OnlyThots and MyHump or whatever other crap is out there. But have some perspective that a 22 year old today is in a vastly different situation than you. I'll be honest, if I didn't raise my godson, and didn't have such a massive age gap, I probably wouldn't understand either.

Many of you have sons. I'd like to think most of you want your sons to love themselves and value themselves more than to be someone's safe bet to pay the mortgage after their intended kept giving up their prime years to free grazers.

Old Man Gekko has no love for free grazers. No free lunches. You have to give to get.  If it was up to me, I'd make Sigmund Bloom start executing all the non-subscribers today.

A key that can open any lock is worth it's weight in gold. A lock that can be opened by any random key in the village is completely worthless.
I'm not well versed on Red Pill, MGTOW, etc. but I can't fault girls for wanting to enjoy themselves.  No one should be expected to mate simply for the sake of society.  Financial reasons may be playing a large part in some people choosing to have less or no children.  However, unlike you, I think that America's appeal to immigrants will protect it from experiencing replacement issues.  In a future dystopian society, I can imagine the young people turning on the old.  Why should the young work for scraps and struggle to support the old who prospered under this unjust system?

 
America does not have a mating crisis. It does have a looming and pervasive "marriage crisis" and "birth rate crisis"

No new children, no new taxpayers. With people living longer and longer and advancements in modern medicine, that's a problem. Allowing immigration in a broad scale doesn't solve the problem either.

Unless you want children, there is basically no incentive for the modern man, esp someone college aged, to even begin to consider marriage. Level of education is a earning potential check mark thus a commitment check mark thus a marriage discussion checkmark, and NOT a specific "mating" one. 

Something else to consider is the core demographic here in the FBG forums is male and also likely somewhere in their 40's-50's. The entire dating/mating/marriage/having kids scenario and spectrum is vastly different than someone who is college aged today. Same thing for home ownership, retirement and understanding a world before social media/instant information.

Your level of education matters in a commitment scenario. It denotes things about earning power and commonality, which are commitment based issues. If young men have no reason to commit, then it doesn't matter. Young women, lots of them, are not looking for marriage right away. They want a guy who looks good naked and is fun and has high social status and whom her worst rival in the world wants badly.

More young men are more "Red Pill'ed" than ever before. ( One of my young IT guys had to explain this entire movement to me) 

I don't want my godson to commit to a girl who gave her best years to Tinder. When she's on Tinder, do you think she's looking at level of education?  That kind of stuff only matters when you are looking for someone to pay the mortgage.

A rare few of you here in these forums might have lucked out. You grew up before Tinder and Snapface and OnlyThots and MyHump or whatever other crap is out there. But have some perspective that a 22 year old today is in a vastly different situation than you. I'll be honest, if I didn't raise my godson, and didn't have such a massive age gap, I probably wouldn't understand either.

Many of you have sons. I'd like to think most of you want your sons to love themselves and value themselves more than to be someone's safe bet to pay the mortgage after their intended kept giving up their prime years to free grazers.

Old Man Gekko has no love for free grazers. No free lunches. You have to give to get.  If it was up to me, I'd make Sigmund Bloom start executing all the non-subscribers today.

A key that can open any lock is worth it's weight in gold. A lock that can be opened by any random key in the village is completely worthless.
Marriage rates have been declining for quite a while.  Birthrate decreased 4% between 2020 and 2019.  20 states had more deaths than births - this is going to be a problem for a while.  

2 women I know recently choose to have children on their own as a single mom - both mid 40s - 1 adopted and one had a donor sperm.  Both were well off financially, grad school educated, and didn't want to miss out on raising a child.  

I've never heard the term "Red Pill'ed", but reading the article I was scared of a growing "incel" movement.   I don't need men to think they found another reason to blame women for their problems.  

 
Of course it does.  If women stop wanting to get married to men (due to men not having college degrees), do you think that will increase or decrease the rate of single motherhood?
More than now?
Yes, more than now.  This shouldn't be a particularly controversial statement.  If women stop wanting to marry lesser educated men, the rate of single motherhood will increase.

 
Yes, more than now.  This shouldn't be a particularly controversial statement.  If women stop wanting to marry lesser educated men, the rate of single motherhood will increase.
That doesn't make any sense. Then we'll just marry someone that's college-educated and have kids. Or not have any kids at all.

It is a big leap and you're making a huge reach trying to prove.... actually I don't know what you're trying to prove.  I think you're just trying to get a gotcha.

You've successfully derailed another thread with inconsequential distractions.  Please stop.

 
BladeRunner said:
And what experience was that?  How much debt did this "experience" ultimately cost you out of pocket?  Other than your "experience", did that debt equate to a comparable job?

Going to college is not some couple thousand dollar trip to Europe - "Oh you'll love it!  Enjoy the experience!" -  for the summer as you seem to be making it out to be.   We're talking mid-to-high tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for someone starting out here.  That's not insignificant.

What good is the "experience" if it doesn't ultimately equate to a comparable job and/or makes you miserable because you're in debt up to your eyeballs for a good portion of your life?
Somebody didn't have enough fun in college.... 

 
Somebody didn't have enough fun in college.... 


It appears that most of you guys that's all you did. Was it worth the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

You know what you guys sound like? You sound like a bunch of guys who had your college education paid for by your parents.

If I went to a financial adviser and I said I want to spend tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars to have fun, what do you think he would say to me?

 
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FairWarning said:
I’m serious.  I’m in a area that was heavily involved with tool and die and other trades.  It’s sad when high schools cut out woodworking and metal trades, they are very important.  
Agree 100%.

There are plenty of trade programs that pay well after a 2 year degree, but one has to be exposed to them to know what they are and how they function.

 

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