What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

OP-ED: Why The GOP Should Not Support Trump For POTUS 2024 (9/30/21 00:50 PST) (1 Viewer)

GordonGekko

Footballguy
Opinion/Editorial:

John Elway was once interviewed about his "comeback" prowess as an elite NFL quarterback. Citing that he was able to salvage victory out of the jaws of defeat over and over again, sometimes against what looked to be clearly impossible odds.

What did Elway say in one of those interviews?  He said if he did his job the right way the first three quarters of the game, there wouldn't be a need for a comeback at all. And that he was responsible to lead his team all four quarters, not just the last one.

Never pick the hard road to victory when an easier path presents itself to you.

The ideal candidate for 2024 for the GOP will be

1) Someone who has no negative COVID19 narrative on their political resume. This also creates all kinds of problems for any sitting Governor right now, no matter what side of the aisle they actually reside.

2) Someone who has no linkage with January 6th/Capitol Riots. The actions of a few thousand are being used to smear 74 plus million Americans. It will operate as a counter narrative during the 2024 cycle to logical fallacy bomb away the disaster zone of this current Biden Administration. Take that narrative away or any of it's potential and the Biden Administration will have to face accountability in it's purest form.

3) Someone who has an age timeline that doesn't replicate the same risk of the deep disturbing issues about Joe Biden and his alleged "cognitive decline/dementia".  The leader of the free world and the Commander In Chief of the most powerful military force in all of recorded human history, and whom has tactical command of up to 6000 nuclear weapons, should be someone where it's clear they will hold onto their cognitive agency during their POTUS run.

4) Someone who will naturally appeal to the moderate and undecided voting blocks who didn't align with the GOP in 2020 but can reasonably win them back.

5) Someone who becomes almost impossible, as much as is possible, to "cancel" or drag through the mud via personal/financial/political scandal.

The only three real GOP contenders for 2024 will be Donald Trump, Ron De Santis and Nikki Haley.

Can Trump beat any of Joe Biden, Kamala Harris or Gavin Newsom?  (Let's remove the fringe candidates here, Buttigieg and Klobuchar and a few others will not get full Party support) Maybe Trump can beat them. It's not a lock. Trump galvanizes a massive down the ticket voter turnout, but for both Parties. The same people who voted against Trump in 2020 have a media induced pathway to do it again.

Can De Santis beat any of Joe Biden, Kamala Harris or Gavin Newsom? The struggle here is the COVID19 narrative. No one knows where the virus will go or what the total infection rate and/or death count will be in Florida in three plus more years. It's also unclear if he can generate enough delegate support by 2024. Maybe De Santis can beat Biden but it's unclear with Harris and Newsom.

Can Haley beat any of Joe Biden, Kamala Harris or Gavin Newsom? With full Party support, she can take all of them. She naturally hits every box on the checklist. The left leaning leverage of Big Tech, Big Social Media, Big Education, most of the MSM and Hollywood is almost entirely built on Orange Man Bad. Replace Orange Man Bad with pure walking Teflon and it's an entirely new ballgame.

Without Trump on the ticket, my take is a lot of Democratic voters in 2016 and 2020 might just stay home. Maybe they don't like Republicans or Conservative policy, but I'd wager many won't feel comfortable voting for either Biden and/or Harris given what has happened in the last year and what might happen in the next three plus years.  ( Scary to think it could get any worse, but it might actually get even more repugnant)

The immediate counter will be what about the hard line MAGA base. While they might rumble some, when it comes down to it, they will vote for anyone who can get this current identity politics madness out of sitting power. It's not like they are going to vote for Kamala Harris just to spite some other GOP candidate.

The GOP needs Trump's down the ticket impact, but not his baggage. As a practical matter, no one needs to have another POTUS  (where ages 78-82 in that timeline) that could turn into another cognitive decline disaster zone. This is the same reason why Newsom is dangerous ( Nancy Pelosi would then be the de facto POTUS and her age profile and deep questions lingering about her alleged heavy alcoholism come into play.)

Would Trump be content with an announcement, his typical grifter fund raising routine, then announcing pulling out for health reasons ( perfectly acceptable narrative at his age profile) and then endorsing either De Santis or Haley?  Depends on what they have to trade him. A future Presidential blanket pardon could be useful down the road. Maybe for Trump, or maybe for Don Jr , Ivanka or Jared Kushner.

America needs a fresh start here. I don't care what side of the aisle you reside, the country would be better served moving as far away from Trump, Biden and Harris as soon as possible.

Someone more balanced and less egregiously confrontational but who carries many of Trump's policies but without the clear baggage would bring many moderates, undecideds and suburban women back into the fold.

This is a coin with two sides. The establishment Democrats turned their Party into some kind of bizarre pathetic woke catastrophe. But Trump did not do anything to help himself. He could have run roughshod just enough to win 2016 and dialed it back for four years to get reelected and then, if it suited him, go off the cuff in his 2nd term. It's not fair for Trump to blame establishment Democrats for his own mistakes. It's also not fair for leftists to use Trump as a crutch to try to avoid any kind of accountability.

This is about pure practical and functional political strategy. You don't pin your hopes on a 4th quarter flurry before the clock runs out to steal a win from the jaws of defeat. You make your life easier and pick the QB1 who can give you solid play for all four quarters so you just need to run out the clock for victory in the last few minutes of the game.

The irony here is Hillary Clinton defeated herself. And then Trump beat himself. And now Biden has done the same.

The GOP needs to focus on the easy win here. It's not needed to make this more complicated than it has to be. Trump always makes everything more complicated than it has to be.  The interesting thing is once you take away Trump, you also take away the "But Trump" excuses too. I don't think some leftists are actually prepared for that.

For the good of America, and for God and country, it's time to hit Reset.

 
I agree the GOP needs to distance itself from Trump and his minions, but it isn’t clear the MAGA crowd will support a moderate Republican. I suspect they’d sit out in greater numbers than Biden voters would defect to the R ticket - the “Biden is a disaster, senile, etc.” sentiment resides mostly within people who lean conservative/anti-Democrat anyway. I guess his approval rating has taken a dive in the last couple months though.

I also agree Haley seems like a much better candidate than Desantis. For me to switch “teams”, I’d prefer someone who strongly condemned Trump, especially Jan 6. From what I can tell, she’s kinda danced around and has not fully distanced herself. But admittedly, I know little about her politics.

Ignoring the strategic considerations GG mentions, which of her policies/stances do republicans expect people to embrace?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
As a former Republican turned Independent I will not support anyone in the GOP when 2/3 of its base believe a candidate who has no evidence he won an election,  continues to think he won. The key to our democracy is accepting defeat when you lose an election. Nor will I support a party who are run by hypocrites…..they won’t consider a vote on a Supreme Court justice when an election is under one year away when a Democrat President is in charge but will approve a Supreme Court just just weeks before an election when a Republican is in charge. Even though I don’t like some of the things that are going on when Democrats are in charge I am voting blue to make them pay until the GOP comes to it’s senses. And I don’t see that happening anytime soon if ever. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
As a former Republican turned Independent I will not support anyone in the GOP when 2/3 of its base believe a candidate who has no evidence he won an election,  continues to think he won. The key to our democracy is accepting defeat when you lose an election. Nor will I support a party who are run by hypocrites…..they won’t consider a vote on a Supreme Court justice when an election is under one year away when a Democrat President is in charge but will approve a Supreme Court just just weeks before an election when a Republican is in charge. Even though I don’t like some of the things that are going on when Democrats are in charge I am voting blue to make them pay until the GOP comes to it’s senses. And I don’t see that happening anytime soon if ever. 
The thread wasn't named. "Why im not a republican"

You should make your own thread

 
As a former Republican turned Independent I will not support anyone in the GOP when 2/3 of its base believe a candidate who has no evidence he won an election,  continues to think he won. The key to our democracy is accepting defeat when you lose an election. Nor will I support a party who are run by hypocrites…..they won’t consider a vote on a Supreme Court justice when an election is under one year away when a Democrat President is in charge but will approve a Supreme Court just just weeks before an election when a Republican is in charge. Even though I don’t like some of the things that are going on when Democrats are in charge I am voting blue to make them pay until the GOP comes to it’s senses. And I don’t see that happening anytime soon if ever. 


have you ever voted Republican?  I mean, regularly?  We have guys all the time saying they moved from the GOP or who say they are "conservative" but have voted GOP once in their lives.  Maybe twice.

From my perspective, you're in here defending every liberal and liberal policy all the time.  I don't think I've EVER seen you defend the GOP or conservatives.

If you're conservative, then you've voted conservative almost always.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Most I've ever agreed with a GG post. Speaking as someone that's not inclined to vote Republican most of the time anyway, I will never vote for an R that supported Trump in any way, shape or form. They all need to be purged. Once they are gone from the ballots, I will feel better about returning to former voting patterns, which is to vote for the candidate that aligns closest with my views, regardless of party affiliation. My current voting strategy is to vote for the D running against the Trump sycophant, which I admit is a really crappy way to make voting choices. 

I think paring the field down to those mentioned in the OP is a bit short-sighted. I certainly don't believe that the best the Dems can offer is Harris or Newsom. I'd rather vote for Biden again, despite his poor performance to this point. As for Haley and DeSantis, they are non-starters. Neither will be able to wrestle the nomination away from Trump, and neither can win without his full endorsement if he doesn't run. There may be a point to be made about lower turnout without Trump on the ticket, but that cuts both ways, and a Trump endorsement is likely to produce enough anti-Trump voters to get the Dem vote out. Couple that with a few hundred thousand less GOP voters due to Covid misinformation, and I'm feeling pretty comfortable with the Democrats chances in '24. Of course Biden has enough time to demolish that advantage with more insipid decision-making, but time will tell.

 
Listen, I won't be voting for Trump if there are other GOP candidates in the field. 

However, if Trump by some reason actually wins the GOP nomination (he won't despite the mass hysteria about Trump in here) I cannot see myself voting for a Democrat.  Even though I despise Trump, at least he would put forth GOP/Conservative policies whereas the Democrats intend to tear America down and remake it into a woke Utopia and a bastion of lefty group-think.

No thanks.  I'll vote Trump every time over what the left has to offer.  Heck, they even have Socialists and Marxists among their ranks who grow in number every election yet they're worried about MAGA supporters?  :lol:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
voters who are not entrenched (like myself, I would NEVER vote Democrat) .... are not going to change - it doesn't matter if its Republican Hannibal Lector running against Democrat Casey Anthony 

its the swing voters than matter - the people that vote because a candidate is a woman or black skinned or gay etc .......... gotta get those votes, those millions of votes matters yugely

 
I care as much about what John Elway says as Colin Kaepernick 

Nikki Haley is the female Mitt Romney. Good luck with that

 
have you ever voted Republican?  I mean, regularly?  We have guys all the time saying they moved from the GOP or who say they are "conservative" but have voted GOP once in their lives.  Maybe twice.

From my perspective, you're in here defending every liberal and liberal policy all the time.  I don't think I've EVER seen you defend the GOP or conservatives.

If you're conservative, then you've voted conservative almost always.
Voted Red every Presidential election until 2020 ( McMullin in 2016) starting with Ford. The exception was long time conservative House Democrat Collin Peterson.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yuge Father Trump fan here.  That being said, I would much rather he slip into a kingmaker role in 2024 and lead the millions of MAGA/Save America Patriots to a younger candidate.  Keep the awesome rallies, but pass the torch to a younger firebrand.  Right now DeSantis fits that mold much more than Haley. 

 
Voted Republican from 96-2004.  Voted Libertarian 2008-2016.  Voted Dem for the 1st time in 2020.  


what core Democrat / Republican party ideals changed to make you go that 180 degree change ?   I can see Libertarian .... but to go from conservative to liberal voting ... curious if it was your ideas that changed or the parties or ?

 
voters who are not entrenched (like myself, I would NEVER vote Democrat) .... are not going to change - it doesn't matter if its Republican Hannibal Lector running against Democrat Casey Anthony 

its the swing voters than matter - the people that vote because a candidate is a woman or black skinned or gay etc .......... gotta get those votes, those millions of votes matters yugely


You meant "are entrenched" right? The "not" was a typo?

 
voters who are not entrenched (like myself, I would NEVER vote Democrat) .... are not going to change - it doesn't matter if its Republican Hannibal Lector running against Democrat Casey Anthony 

its the swing voters than matter - the people that vote because a candidate is a woman or black skinned or gay etc .......... gotta get those votes, those millions of votes matters yugely
This is not true.  Swing votes don't matter and independents don't matter.  What matters is overall voter turnout.

 
Really?  Mitt was one hell of a gov in MA.  Id vote him 10x even today over Trump.


I was talking to someone about this the other day - remember the 2012 Presidential election? That was the best one we've had in my lifetime and maybe the best one we will have. Romney v Obama. Two good, smart candidates who want the best for the country. They just had different ideas on how to do that.

Would be nice to have another election like that one.

 
Really?  Mitt was one hell of a gov in MA.  Id vote him 10x even today over Trump.


I was talking to someone about this the other day - remember the 2012 Presidential election? That was the best one we've had in my lifetime and maybe the best one we will have. Romney v Obama. Two good, smart candidates who want the best for the country. They just had different ideas on how to do that.

Would be nice to have another election like that one.
Agree 1000x

 
Voted Red every Presidential election until 2020 ( McMullin in 2016) starting with Ford. The exception was long time conservative House Democrat Collin Peterson.
This is basically me - voted essentially straight Republican every election until 2016. 2016 was basically mostly Republican and the Libertarian candidate because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Hillary. Straight democrat in 2018 and 2020.  

Will never vote Republican again until the party has purged itself from Trump and all of the Trump-enablers.

 
As a former Republican turned Independent I will not support anyone in the GOP when 2/3 of its base believe a candidate who has no evidence he won an election,  continues to think he won. The key to our democracy is accepting defeat when you lose an election. Nor will I support a party who are run by hypocrites…..they won’t consider a vote on a Supreme Court justice when an election is under one year away when a Democrat President is in charge but will approve a Supreme Court just just weeks before an election when a Republican is in charge. Even though I don’t like some of the things that are going on when Democrats are in charge I am voting blue to make them pay until the GOP comes to it’s senses. And I don’t see that happening anytime soon if ever. 


Re: the SC - that actual stance was they wouldn't consider a vote on a SC nominee when the President and the Senate were from opposite parties.  There is actually precedent for that in Congressional history.  Yeah, maybe they should have gone through the whole consideration process and then voted against confirming Garland for optics, but the end result was going to be the same.  McConnell handled the situation poorly.  You might not like the way it was handled, but at least understand the position correctly.  

 
Yuge Father Trump fan here.  That being said, I would much rather he slip into a kingmaker role in 2024 and lead the millions of MAGA/Save America Patriots to a younger candidate.  Keep the awesome rallies, but pass the torch to a younger firebrand.  Right now DeSantis fits that mold much more than Haley. 


Agree.  Would like to see Crenshaw get more popular nationwide.  

 
Re: the SC - that actual stance was they wouldn't consider a vote on a SC nominee when the President and the Senate were from opposite parties.  There is actually precedent for that in Congressional history.  Yeah, maybe they should have gone through the whole consideration process and then voted against confirming Garland for optics, but the end result was going to be the same.  McConnell handled the situation poorly.  You might not like the way it was handled, but at least understand the position correctly.  
I don't believe that was the stance at the time.  At the time, the stance was very much that the Senate shouldn't confirm a nominee during an election year.  In 2020, they then claimed that their stance all along had to do with opposing parties, but that is not the way I remember it framed in 2016.  Look no further than Lindsey Graham's "use my words against me" speech in 2016 and subsequent declaration AFTER Trump was elected that he would not move forward with a nominee in the last year of Trump's term.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7vdEAwcdSw

 
Agree.  Would like to see Crenshaw get more popular nationwide.  
Not a fan of Crenshaw, because of his stance, not his service.  Can't argue with that.

I think the player you are missing here is Ivanka.  I'm not saying she is politically savvy or even a great choice.  I'm saying if Trump decides not to run (and other than trying to stay out of jail I don't see a compelling reason for him to run again), I don't see him "lending his brand" to another presidential candidate that isn't in the "Trump Swamp".  Therein lies the rub: Who can co-opt the MAGAheads without making an enemy of Trumpworld?  Nikki tried it, but failed.  Likely DOA as a candidate but in my mind the biggest threat to the left on a ticket.

Desantis may not even win his State again for Governor.  If he loses that election, the "LOSER" tag will be all the MAGAheads need to not vote for him.  If he wins, then he is in play, but he is more about "co-opting" the brand and then making it his own and no way Trump lets him do that.

The left (and I am firmly on the left) has a simple problem they need to solve before the next election cycle: LEARNING HOW TO ADVERTISE THEIR WINS (as well as learning how to "re-frame" their losses).  Biden was right on Afghanistan (testimony is bearing that out), but he let the optics sink his poll numbers; Trump would have come up with some excuse and then some "distraction" on twitter to change the narrative.  Same with the Hatians at the border fiasco.  Trump likely "doubles down" there.  Not sure where the left's "propaganda" team is at but for the past, what, 16 + years the right has been eating their lunch at that table.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree 100% that they GOP should not run Trump and think they will lose in a bad way if he runs--as a Republican or Independent. 

If he runs in the GOP primary, he'll almost certainly win.  And then we're back to 2020 where voters voted at a historic rate not because they love Joe Biden--but because they thought Trump was a terrible person and POTUS.  

If he runs as an independent--he'll siphon votes off the GOP nominee.  

After the Capitol riots, I thought 2024 was a slam dunk for the Democrats to keep the White house.  But Biden hasn't exactly knocked it out of the park.  I forget how quickly the winds change in US politics.  

I don't think the GOP needs to worry about alienating Trump's base. 

1.  They're not going to vote Democrat.  

2.  I don't believe they'll sit out and let the Democrats have a free win.  This is the side of "But it's my right..." I don't think they're going to skip out on their right to vote or their say in government.  

I think the best case scenario:  Trump endorses the GOP as a whole.  Say you have full confidence in the leadership.  And fade into the shadows.  Don't endorse Haley, DeSantis, or Crenshaw.  Just endorse the Republlican leadership and move on.  Now you've told our base to trust the party.  But you haven't made any candidate "a Trump person."  You don't attach that lightning rod to their head.  

 
I want to like and endorse Crenshaw but his ardent support of Trump kills it for me. It shows a complete lack of judgment in my opinion. Exactly like McCain and his pick of Palin back in the day. He had my vote on lock, then showed such incredibly poor judgment and lack of ability to stand up to the mechanism and branding, it actually pushed me away.  Same thing is happening for me with Crenshaw.  

 
I think the best case scenario:  Trump endorses the GOP as a whole.  Say you have full confidence in the leadership.  And fade into the shadows.  Don't endorse Haley, DeSantis, or Crenshaw.  Just endorse the Republlican leadership and move on.  Now you've told our base to trust the party.  But you haven't made any candidate "a Trump person."  You don't attach that lightning rod to their head.  
For the GOP, this is definitely a best-case scenario.  It's also about as likely as unicorn races with leprechaun jockeys.

 
I'd have no problem with DeSantis getting the nod here.  This would be a step back towards normalcy.  It would be entertaining to watch all the Trump people try to convince themselves that he's just like Trump.  The reality is, he isn't.  Outside of his hypocrisy on "people/companies should be able to make their own decisions" shtick, he's been relatively moderate.  His actions as Governor have made good theater and red meat for the base.  The advertising has been phenomenal, but the punch in the legislation is completely lacking.  He knows how to do as little as possible and claim he's moving mountains.  When you're pulling the strings, that can be sold as "effective".  When you're not you just come across as an incompetent buffoon.  Unless there is a firm hold on all three branches, little will get done.  These two things should be obvious to all of us at this point.  We've had 6.5 years of verifiable evidence.

I certainly don't think he's morally bankrupt and there's a good part of his position I think is genuine.  There have been several things documented in the Florida Politics thread that I agree with and have said so.  Those things alone show me a step in the right direction, but we also need to understand the bar that's been set.  It's not exactly challenging.  As I said...he'd be a sign of the GOP moving back towards sanity.  I think that's a good thing.

 
As a practical matter, no one needs to have another POTUS  (where ages 78-82 in that timeline) that could turn into another cognitive decline disaster zone. This is the same reason why Newsom is dangerous ( Nancy Pelosi would then be the de facto POTUS and her age profile and deep questions lingering about her alleged heavy alcoholism come into play.)
What?  Newsom is 53.

 
Donald Trump defines both major political parties in our country 100%.  A politician cannot be a viable member of the GOP unless they fully support Trump and all that he stands for, including the Big Lie.  Similarly, the only qualification to be a Democrat running for office is to be "Not Trump" - that's your entire platform whether running for President, Congress, Governor or County Clerk.  Policy of any sort - immigration, health care, tax, whatever - is pure meaningless noise and nothing more.

 
I don't think the GOP needs to worry about alienating Trump's base. 

1.  They're not going to vote Democrat.  

2.  I don't believe they'll sit out and let the Democrats have a free win.  This is the side of "But it's my right..." I don't think they're going to skip out on their right to vote or their say in government.  
If the GOP nominee is not Trump, and they say something negative about Trump or denounce him in any way, Trump will get pissy and start blasting the nominee. And that WILL have a material impact on turnout for Trump supporters. The only thing Trump hates more than a Democrat who criticizes him is a Republican who criticizes him. Policy is irrelevant. He doesn’t care if a Democrat wins unless the Republican winning reflects positively on his power and influence. And that only happens if the GOP nominee kisses his ring. 

 
Voted Red every Presidential election until 2020 ( McMullin in 2016) starting with Ford. The exception was long time conservative House Democrat Collin Peterson.
I find this stunning.    The dems want to  have banks tell the IRS if you move $600.

And you are concerned with the Republicans?   That's nuts.   

"Squirrel"

 
what core Democrat / Republican party ideals changed to make you go that 180 degree change ?   I can see Libertarian .... but to go from conservative to liberal voting ... curious if it was your ideas that changed or the parties or ?
I think both - my ideas about the parties and the role of government changed, and the parties themselves changed.

When I was in high school and college, I liked the idea of a small federal government that let people make decisions.  The Republican party was corrupted over time by the religious right and stopped being small government.  In 96 I liked Bob Dole, voted for Bush, and Kerry was a weak candidate. 

The libertarian party offered the idea of a fiscally conservative, socially liberal government, but puts too much faith in classical economic models.   In 2008 I was working and raising a family.  I thought individuals would make better choices that the government with their dollars.  Over the next decade behavioral economics flourished and I found that people don't make rational choices, governments don't need to operate with a profit/loss statement, and our success as a country shouldn't be judged by our GDP.   

It felt less important for me to maximize my individual gains and to focus on improving the whole.  I'd trade some freedoms and income if I think it will benefit more people.    People shouldn't go bankrupt with doctor bills.  Mothers should get prenatal care.  All children should have medical coverage.  Pre-school should not be a benefit for the rich. 

This last election, the Republican in my district, ran on a campaign message of "I will support President Trump" .  That was it.  No policies.  He couldn't state the policies, because they weren't sure where President Trump would land on issues.   Jake LaTurner won, he supported the rejection of the electoral college, and that is the only thing he has done in office.  I don't agree with everything the democrats have done, or all of their policies.  When I voted in the primary for democratic candidates, I think I had Joe Biden as my sixth choice.  I canvassed for Cory Booker in Iowa, and I was a huge supporter of Mayor Pete.  

I could have seen voting for John Kasich in 2016 - possibly Jeb Bush.   I was sad when Jeff Flake and Paul Ryan were forced out b - I'm hoping Ben Sasse survives and can play a role in a stronger GOP in the future.

In general, I now try to look at an issue and ask "Which helps more people?" and "Are we acting scared?" 

 
I find this stunning.    The dems want to  have banks tell the IRS if you move $600.

And you are concerned with the Republicans?   That's nuts.   

"Squirrel"
I want 2 parties to be viable and I am looking at the endgame. Rewarding those who enabled  Trump will result in the same old garbage we have had since 2016.

 
From wiki:  Trump registered as a Republican in Manhattan in 1987; since that time, he has changed his party affiliation five times. In 1999, Trump changed his party affiliation to the Independence Party of New York. In August 2001, Trump changed his party affiliation to Democratic. In September 2009, Trump changed his party affiliation back to the Republican Party. In December 2011, Trump changed to "no party affiliation" (independent). In April 2012, Trump again returned to the Republican Party.

 
lazyike said:
I want 2 parties to be viable and I am looking at the endgame. Rewarding those who enabled  Trump will result in the same old garbage we have had since 2016.


The ends DO NOT justify the means.  EVER.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Donald Trump defines both major political parties in our country 100%.  A politician cannot be a viable member of the GOP unless they fully support Trump and all that he stands for, including the Big Lie.  Similarly, the only qualification to be a Democrat running for office is to be "Not Trump" - that's your entire platform whether running for President, Congress, Governor or County Clerk.  Policy of any sort - immigration, health care, tax, whatever - is pure meaningless noise and nothing more.
Maybe.  Joe Biden is basically a “juice cleanse “. The most viable candidate to be able to beat trump, who connects with the working class voter, and isn’t out there on the farther left side of the dem party (Bernie).  He also is not trump in any way, shape, or form.  Deeply empathic, not flashy, and understands policy inside and out from all his experience in government. 
 

the right tried to frame him as senile, his son as a criminal, and his actions as “creepy”, all as a contrast to trump (but strangely trump tics all the same boxes but more so) and that is what the Trumpland base is clinging to. 
 

the next cycle will either have “trump Biden II” or it will have trump surrogate vs Biden surrogate and the surrogate war will be a turnout battle. 

 
From wiki:  Trump registered as a Republican in Manhattan in 1987; since that time, he has changed his party affiliation five times. In 1999, Trump changed his party affiliation to the Independence Party of New York. In August 2001, Trump changed his party affiliation to Democratic. In September 2009, Trump changed his party affiliation back to the Republican Party. In December 2011, Trump changed to "no party affiliation" (independent). In April 2012, Trump again returned to the Republican Party.
Welcome to New York? 

 
quick-hands said:
I find this stunning.    The dems want to  have banks tell the IRS if you move $600.

And you are concerned with the Republicans?   That's nuts.   

"Squirrel"
:confused:

The IRS can get any financial information about you that they want.....today.  That ship sailed in the wake of 9/11

 
You don’t want the GOP to a respectable competitive party of at least a semblance of decency once again?


Doesn't matter.  The ends do not justify the means.  Human history is replete with how that eventually plays out and it's never good.

Plus, y'know, the Road to Hell is paved with good intentions and all that too.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
:confused:

The IRS can get any financial information about you that they want.....today.  That ship sailed in the wake of 9/11


If they want it they have to work for it.  We don't need banks sending data to the IRS willy nilly.  No way.

You might be okay with that, not me.  Let's not make it any easier for the government.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If they want it they have to work for it.  We don't need banks sending data to the IRS willy nilly.  No way.

You might be okay with that, not me.  Let's not make it any easier for the government.
They don't today.  It's a simple request that takes about 5 minutes.  Every financial institution has to have a streamlined process to get the information requested within 48 hours, in some cases that meet specific criteria 24 hours.  You should read your Terms of Service on your applicable accounts.  

 
Listen, I won't be voting for Trump if there are other GOP candidates in the field. 

However, if Trump by some reason actually wins the GOP nomination (he won't despite the mass hysteria about Trump in here) I cannot see myself voting for a Democrat.  Even though I despise Trump, at least he would put forth GOP/Conservative policies whereas the Democrats intend to tear America down and remake it into a woke Utopia and a bastion of lefty group-think.

No thanks.  I'll vote Trump every time over what the left has to offer.  Heck, they even have Socialists and Marxists among their ranks who grow in number every election yet they're worried about MAGA supporters?  :lol:
This is the issue for me too.   While I understand liberals jist hating the idea of Trump, i camt stand the democratic policies and candidates today so id have no choice but to vote for him.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top