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Lien on property, any advice? (1 Viewer)

Foosball God said:
I'm sure the new contractor can get more of the same material
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Given the behavior of the owner of this company, there is zero chance I am going to offer to buy the material from him.  He is far too unreasonable to even TRY and work with, let alone actually work with him if he decides to respond to me or speak to me.

 
ChiefD said:
And for the record, I'm in the trades and while our company does not treat people like this, I can assure you that if we spent thousands on HVAC equipment and then had to spend time and money to go pick it up and return it we'd be pissed too.
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Who would you be pissed AT???  The customer who was treated with three consecutive days of either not showing up or minimal labor?  Or whoever was responsible on your end for that lack of work and lack of SHOWING UP??

 
Maybe all the flooring guy really needs is a hug and someone to tell him everything is going to be OK.....

 
Ok all my final correspondence sent. I sent another email, certified letter, and another message on their facebook page.  All offering to return materials and pay for work done.  No reply.

So I guess now I play the waiting game??  Is there anything else I should do in the meantime other than wait for whatever it is this guy tries to do?

I still have the flooring, moved it to a secure place at my house.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
I will return all the stuff myself to wherever he got it.

We haven't gotten that far into a conversation because he went directly into threatening police action, liens, and racism.

He will not speak to me about any solution.

Side note, the new flooring company I just visited told me they had three customers this past week who came to them after this other clown never showed up for their install.

All of the pain in this guys butt is 100% self inflicted.

I have gone above and beyond to make it right.  He has gone above and beyond to make it difficult.  
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It seems you’re dealing with a guy who is acting irrationally for god knows whatever reason. Not much you can do in those circumstances other than just document everything and don’t engage on his level. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
It seems you’re dealing with a guy who is acting irrationally for god knows whatever reason. Not much you can do in those circumstances other than just document everything and don’t engage on his level. 
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Yeah, it's my first experience with this kind of guy.  At least when it comes to someone doing work on my property.   I have had many "bad" experiences, but this is obviously the steroid version of that.

It will be interesting to see how the "you fired us cause you are racist" angle plays out.  

I honestly have no idea what to expect, or when to expect it.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
If he does actually out a lien, will I be notified? Who would I contact to see if there are any liens?
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You should definitely get notice.  If he doesn't provide notice of the filing to you, that's just one more basis to have the lien vacated. This should be something you can easily search online in your county.  If not, a title company can do it for you very easily.  If you work with one company, or have a contact at one, perhaps have them run a search in a month or two if this thing is still unresolved just to be certain. 

 
ghostguy123 said:
If he does actually out a lien, will I be notified? Who would I contact to see if there are any liens?
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depends on the state, but in general if an owner contracts directly with a contractor, they don't need to provide pre-lien notice.    you'll definitely get notice once it's been recorded.   

 
So the company just left me a voicemail asking to set up a time to come pick up their materials.  For one, these a-holes are not coming to my property.  I will take it to them.  It's a pain, but an hour worth of my time is worth it.

Obviously I will get a receipt and/or have them sign something about the materials returned and not being charged any other fees for the materials.

Still not sure what will happen with that whole 2 hours worth of work they did.  

 
ChiefD said:
But he is out the material. He paid for the material. He paid the labor to get it to your house. He paid for whatever labor they did at the house, even if it is only two hours as you say.

Now you want him to pay more labor to come get the materials, then spend labor time to return those materials.  This scenario created a major pain in the butt for that guy. I'd be pissed too. 

And for the record, I'm in the trades and while our company does not treat people like this, I can assure you that if we spent thousands on HVAC equipment and then had to spend time and money to go pick it up and return it we'd be pissed too.
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He isn't out the material (the OP said he would return it).  The scenario was that the contractor stopped showing up and didn't do the work as agreed.  This had nothing to do with the tenant arranging the work to be done.  The contractor did not do what was promised.  He stopped showing up and wouldn't communicate with the OP.  This is all on the contractor.  

 
I called back.  Willing to accept materials and 600 bucks............600???????????

2 guys for 2 hours.  150 bucks per man hour?   Around here 50 would be too much.

 
They called back again.  Willing to accept materials and 250.  Asked for cash.  I said no.  They said they were "leary" of a check.  Funny.

So, ideally this stupid unneccesary headache will be over with tomorrow.

I expect something else stupid to come up though.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
They called back again.  Willing to accept materials and 250.  Asked for cash.  I said no.  They said they were "leary" of a check.  Funny.

So, ideally this stupid unneccesary headache will be over with tomorrow.

I expect something else stupid to come up though.  
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Did they also agree to sign a lien waiver?  Maybe not worth it, but if you're paying money that would be a normal and reasonable request.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
What does "yes" mean? Are you having them sign a formal release of lien (has to be notarized) or not? If not, this dude can cause you more misery.

Understandably, you want this done. But you have to sew it up right.
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I am receiving documentation from them for the return of the property and receipt of payment.

I am also having them sign a form basically saying I returned everything, I am all paid up, and anything and everything both monetary and legal is done once signed.

Does a reliese of lien for need done if there is no actual lien?

 
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LooooWhelp, that did not go well.

I showed up with half the material in my car,  the hothead owner was there.  I introduced myself.  He immediately says "I'm not signing anything, and I am filing a report for stolen property".  I said "ok" and I walked out, got in my car, and left.  Such a tool

I went up to the police station to add to my previous report, showed them a voice mail, texts, material in my car, and certified check.

Fast forward a couple hours, after this owner yelled at the police officers, I am meeting the officers at the store to deliver the product.  The officers said I had to since the owner has been paid no money.  Fair enough.  I just want witness documentation that he is getting his stuff back. What better form than the police.  

Who still wants to defend this clown?  

He is still taking me to civil court and filing liens.

 
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ghostguy123 said:
LooooWhelp, that did not go well.

I showed up with half the material in my car,  the hothead owner was there.  I introduced myself.  He immediately says "I'm not signing anything, and I am filing a report for stolen property".  I said "ok" and I walked out, got in my car, and left.  Such a tool

I went up to the police station to add to my previous report, showed them a voice mail, texts, material in my car, and certified check.

Fast forward a couple hours, after this owner yelled at the police officers, I am meeting the officers at the store to deliver the product.  The officers said I had to since the owner has been paid no money.  Fair enough.  I just want witness documentation that he is getting his stuff back. What better form than the police.  

Who still wants to defend this clown?  

He is still taking me to civil court and filing liens.
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Is he taking you to small claims court or something higher?  If small claims I'd countersue. 

 
ghostguy123 said:
LooooWhelp, that did not go well.

I showed up with half the material in my car,  the hothead owner was there.  I introduced myself.  He immediately says "I'm not signing anything, and I am filing a report for stolen property".  I said "ok" and I walked out, got in my car, and left.  Such a tool

I went up to the police station to add to my previous report, showed them a voice mail, texts, material in my car, and certified check.

Fast forward a couple hours, after this owner yelled at the police officers, I am meeting the officers at the store to deliver the product.  The officers said I had to since the owner has been paid no money.  Fair enough.  I just want witness documentation that he is getting his stuff back. What better form than the police.  

Who still wants to defend this clown?  

He is still taking me to civil court and filing liens.
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I just don't understand what the issue is with this guy.  Didn't you just hire him to install some flooring and after he didn't show up or do the work you decided to cancel the project and pay for what was done and return the product?  Why is this guy getting all bent out of shape?  He didn't want to do the work (as evidenced by him not showing up to do the work).  You are paying him for the work done and returning the material.  What is the problem?  I just don't get how it got so blown out of proportion.

 
It doesn't sound like the contractors actions and words are based on thought or reason. Just sounds like out-of-control anger. If he actually takes you to court he'll probably sabotage himself in the process.

 
Gally said:
I just don't understand what the issue is with this guy.  Didn't you just hire him to install some flooring and after he didn't show up or do the work you decided to cancel the project and pay for what was done and return the product?  Why is this guy getting all bent out of shape?  He didn't want to do the work (as evidenced by him not showing up to do the work).  You are paying him for the work done and returning the material.  What is the problem?  I just don't get how it got so blown out of proportion.
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From an earlier post from the OP:

Side note, the new flooring company I just visited told me they had three customers this past week who came to them after this other clown never showed up for their install.
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My guess:  This guy is on the brink of bankruptcy.  Maybe Covid and/or the labor shortage has hit him hard.  He's doing everything he can to stay in business and he's taking on more than he can chew and as a result he's not operating to the standards he did previously.  Every lost customer is another step closer to bankruptcy and he's not responding well to that pressure.  Obviously, I have very limited information but given how long he's been in business and everything it just seems like there's some force at work that didn't exist at other times. 

 
John123 said:
From an earlier post from the OP:

My guess:  This guy is on the brink of bankruptcy.  Maybe Covid and/or the labor shortage has hit him hard.  He's doing everything he can to stay in business and he's taking on more than he can chew and as a result he's not operating to the standards he did previously.  Every lost customer is another step closer to bankruptcy and he's not responding well to that pressure.  Obviously, I have very limited information but given how long he's been in business and everything it just seems like there's some force at work that didn't exist at other times. 
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Sure things are tough but being an ####### to your customers sure isn't going to help.  You can be stressed and trying to get through this but threatening to file a claim for stolen property when the guy is there to return the material is just crazy talk.  This is well beyond just being stressed.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
LooooWhelp, that did not go well.

I showed up with half the material in my car,  the hothead owner was there.  I introduced myself.  He immediately says "I'm not signing anything, and I am filing a report for stolen property".  I said "ok" and I walked out, got in my car, and left.  Such a tool

I went up to the police station to add to my previous report, showed them a voice mail, texts, material in my car, and certified check.

Fast forward a couple hours, after this owner yelled at the police officers, I am meeting the officers at the store to deliver the product.  The officers said I had to since the owner has been paid no money.  Fair enough.  I just want witness documentation that he is getting his stuff back. What better form than the police.  

Who still wants to defend this clown?  

He is still taking me to civil court and filing liens.
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wowzers.  what did the cops say?  did you get anything in writing from them?  so you brought the materials back, with the cops, correct?  did you give them the check?

did you film the exchange?  might want to start.  

this is unreal

 
John123 said:
Is he taking you to small claims court or something higher?  If small claims I'd countersue. 
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Who knows.  He was arguing with the officer over the phone telling the officer this was a criminal matter even though the officer told him 5 times it's a civil matter, then told the officer he would make him (the officer) lose his job over this.

 
Gally said:
I just don't understand what the issue is with this guy.  Didn't you just hire him to install some flooring and after he didn't show up or do the work you decided to cancel the project and pay for what was done and return the product?  Why is this guy getting all bent out of shape?  He didn't want to do the work (as evidenced by him not showing up to do the work).  You are paying him for the work done and returning the material.  What is the problem?  I just don't get how it got so blown out of proportion.
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Come to find out he has a history of this.

He also has severe emotional problems.  Fairly sure he is untreated bipolar 1

 
fatness said:
It doesn't sound like the contractors actions and words are based on thought or reason. Just sounds like out-of-control anger. If he actually takes you to court he'll probably sabotage himself in the process.
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The past couple days I firmly believe he is trying to specifically make things difficult for ME personally.  Cutting off his nose to spite his face type of behavior.

Oh well, the stuff was taken back with two officers present.  I will get the report and I took some photos.

The hothead owner was not there.  He actually delayed the dropoff till 12:45 so that he could have a guy there to unload.  Well, sure enough, no guy, so I unloaded it all myself.  Not a real surprise there.

 
John123 said:
From an earlier post from the OP:

My guess:  This guy is on the brink of bankruptcy.  Maybe Covid and/or the labor shortage has hit him hard.  He's doing everything he can to stay in business and he's taking on more than he can chew and as a result he's not operating to the standards he did previously.  Every lost customer is another step closer to bankruptcy and he's not responding well to that pressure.  Obviously, I have very limited information but given how long he's been in business and everything it just seems like there's some force at work that didn't exist at other times. 
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I have actually been told by a few people now that this is how he has operated for a very long time.

 
Gally said:
Sure things are tough but being an ####### to your customers sure isn't going to help.  You can be stressed and trying to get through this but threatening to file a claim for stolen property when the guy is there to return the material is just crazy talk.  This is well beyond just being stressed.  
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Dont forget the racism.  He claimed racism.  Cant forget that evil racism we showed.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
wowzers.  what did the cops say?  did you get anything in writing from them?  so you brought the materials back, with the cops, correct?  did you give them the check?

did you film the exchange?  might want to start.  

this is unreal
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Cops were there.  I will pick up the report later.  Photos taken

No money was exchanged.   This was for material only.  Owner was not there

The cop that was there and that I did the report with also had a terrible experience with this company a while back.  Small world eh?

 
I deserve several slaps to the face for getting myself into business with this company.  This is what happens when you assume things.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
He was arguing with the officer over the phone telling the officer this was a criminal matter even though the officer told him 5 times it's a civil matter, then told the officer he would make him (the officer) lose his job over this.
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"IT HAS TO BE CRIMINAL BECAUSE I'M SO ANGRY!" lol.

The guy's just irrational. Maybe it's business pressures, could be as simple as a chemical imbalance.

 
fatness said:
"IT HAS TO BE CRIMINAL BECAUSE I'M SO ANGRY!" lol.

The guy's just irrational. Maybe it's business pressures, could be as simple as a chemical imbalance.
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Yeah, like I said, I have talked to some people since this happened that have told me this is NOT new behavior for the guy.

Also a couple reviews a read from a while back were right in line with what happened with me.

 
Getzlaf15 said:
this is what happens when you let tenants be involved with your decisions.
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I still don't understand what the tenant has to do with this going wrong.  The tenant suggested a company and the OP agreed to the company.  I thought the OP said he checked out the company and thought they were ok....maybe the OP didn't check on the company but that has nothing to do with the tenant recommending them.  If the OP didn't want this company he didn't have to use it.  What did the tenant do wrong and or why not take suggestions from the tenant?  Taking a suggestion from a tenant is not inherently bad.  Ultimate decision is up to you.  Getting input and involvement isn't the problem.  Not doing your own diligence is the problem.    

 
Gally said:
I still don't understand what the tenant has to do with this going wrong.  The tenant suggested a company and the OP agreed to the company.  I thought the OP said he checked out the company and thought they were ok....maybe the OP didn't check on the company but that has nothing to do with the tenant recommending them.  If the OP didn't want this company he didn't have to use it.  What did the tenant do wrong and or why not take suggestions from the tenant?  Taking a suggestion from a tenant is not inherently bad.  Ultimate decision is up to you.  Getting input and involvement isn't the problem.  Not doing your own diligence is the problem.    
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You are both right.

I ultimately did not vet the company well enough though.  I had assumed they were fine since they have been in business here for 20+ years.  

I made the initial mistake in judgement.  Everything from that point on is the incompetent company

 
Gally said:
I still don't understand what the tenant has to do with this going wrong.  The tenant suggested a company and the OP agreed to the company.  I thought the OP said he checked out the company and thought they were ok....maybe the OP didn't check on the company but that has nothing to do with the tenant recommending them.  If the OP didn't want this company he didn't have to use it.  What did the tenant do wrong and or why not take suggestions from the tenant?  Taking a suggestion from a tenant is not inherently bad.  Ultimate decision is up to you.  Getting input and involvement isn't the problem.  Not doing your own diligence is the problem.    
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The tenant paid for the job and later canceled that payment.   Really has nothing to do with that though.  When you make any sort of deal with a tenant , especially when it involves reducing future rent, it almost always turns into a major chit show. 

He should have gone out and got three bids for the job.  

 
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