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Gruden resigning (1 Viewer)

tangfoot said:
If too much power is in the hands of capital, he should join a Union for their collective bargaining power 
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Coaches aren't union or management. They're in a never-never land because the football industry apparently exists outside of the word industry.

Whether that is right or not is up to you.

 
rockaction said:
Think about it. If a subject you believed in was considered taboo by the powers-that-be, and you expressed righteous dissent from the side of the subject not considered taboo, how would you feel if your work terminated your employment in an entirely different industry.

I don't like this at all because I think it has really far-reaching consequences.

For instance, I've been called "anti-trans" on this board by people who take radical positions about the issue. I would not want them controlling my employment in another industry.
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In general I agree with a lot of the opinions of the left, but this idea that people can't speak and say anything without them wanting to get your life ruined is insane. I do blame them for sparking the right-wing lunatics. And yes, this is an incredibly slippery slope where disagreeing with anyone on a major issue and speaking your opinion is reason for people to try and ruin your life. 

I'm not too worried about Gruden personally, it's just the overall issue of how things are done now. Things have swung way too far and there's way too much power in the hands of the radicals on both sides.

 
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rockaction said:
I didn't say they can't fire him. As far as I know, employment is pretty much at-will in the NFL. Should they? I don't like the precedent it sets, that's all. This sounds like someone submarined him.

The only thing un-private about those emails is the degree to which the recipients decide it is, is how it oughta be.

This was gathered from another investigation and is ancillary to it. It should have remained private.
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Submarined him? He sent an email to other people saying a bunch of horrible ####. And then it came out in an investigation of one of the people he sent an email to. 

This is not the hill to die on. If I were Mark Davis, I a) would have hair, albeit crazy hair, and b) would have fired him if he didn't resign. Because its a distraction and its not who I would want to be associated with and because I respect the players.

 
Jackstraw said:
So people are really saying we should openly regard minorities Women and gays as inferior human beings and that should be just like, your opinion man. No harm no Foul? At the very highest level? 
 

Grow up. 
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Yes, if a private email he shouldn't be fired for it even if he is a moron.

 
Ilov80s said:
A lot. This is a godsend for them. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had a hand in getting these emails. They had to get out of that mess. Also remember, The Raiders are maybe the poorest team in the league. Davis doesn’t have that much money and it’s all tied to the Raiders. 
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This is also very true.

 
voiceofunreason said:
In general I agree with a lot of the opinions of the left, but this idea that people can't speak and say anything without them wanting to get your life ruined is insane. I do blame them for sparking the right-wing lunatics. And yes, this is an incredibly slippery slope where disagree with anyone on a major issue is reason to do what you can to ruin their life. 

I'm not too worried about Gruden personally, it's just the overall issue of how things are done now. Things have swung way too far and there's way too much power in the hands of the radicals on both sides.
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1) Did you read what he wrote?

2) If you owned the Raiders, would you want to be associated with that? Do you think it would help your team win having him around? Or would it be a distraction?

 
Insein said:
They apparently have condoned it twice by hiring Gruden because "Just Win Baby." You can't tell me the guy didn't say anything like this in his multiple stints without the owner hearing it. 
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Again, I would be shocked if they knew about any of this. 

It’s just not who the Raiders have ever been. I have not always agreed with the Davis family, but I will defend Al Davis on this subject to my last breath. And I seriously doubt Mark is cut from any different cloth.

 
Jackstraw said:
So people are really saying we should openly regard minorities Women and gays as inferior human beings and that should be just like, your opinion man. No harm no Foul? At the very highest level? 
 

Grow up. 
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I can't speak for everyone else but didn't think his email about Smith was racist or fireable offense. These latest emails are much worse and definitely fireable.

 
whoknew said:
Submarined him? He sent an email to other people saying a bunch of horrible ####. And then it came out in an investigation of one of the people he sent an email to. 

This is not the hill to die on. If I were Mark Davis, I a) would have hair, albeit crazy hair, and b) would have fired him if he didn't resign. Because its a distraction and its not who I would want to be associated with and because I respect the players.
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This is also not within the scope of his current employment, nor is it even out of the realm of anything but a private discussion.

Imagine if you could get tired for views you hold that are unpopular. Then apply it writ large to society and tell there aren't problems with it.

 
voiceofunreason said:
In general I agree with a lot of the opinions of the left, but this idea that people can't speak and say anything without them wanting to get your life ruined is insane. I do blame them for sparking the right-wing lunatics. And yes, this is an incredibly slippery slope where disagreeing with anyone on a major issue and speaking your opinion is reason for people to try and ruin your life. 

I'm not too worried about Gruden personally, it's just the overall issue of how things are done now. Things have swung way too far and there's way too much power in the hands of the radicals on both sides.
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What does this have to do with “the left”?

Gruden was dumb enough to put all this stuff in writing. It got out, and he & the team parted ways. 

What did “the left” have to do with this? That’s just silly. 

 
rockaction said:
The only thing un-private about those emails is the degree to which the recipients decide it is, is how it oughta be.

This was gathered from another investigation and is ancillary to it. It should have remained private.
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The email service provided by the company I work at, the company owns the content of email lock, stock, and barrel.  

...and maybe you own and operate your own email service, but when those emails hit a service provided by another entity, they then own those emails lock, stock, and barrel.

We could split a lot of hairs discussing this, but it's a mistake to expect privacy with regards to email.  Maybe Rockaction can't read my email, but there are others who can.

 
Insein said:
They've had these emails at ESPN for over a decade. This supposedly holier than thou righteous company and never said a word about it but now they will act as if they are shocked and appalled. Gtfo. So sick of this society acting like church going nannies clutching their pearls while shoving their own skeletons deeper into their closet. 
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I've been saying this to a few people. I just had a neighbor who had a nephew intern for ESPN and he said ESPN was mad as Rachel Nichols because she essentially called out their BS. They act like they are a liberal company when they aren't. A lot of virtue signaling holier then thou type nonsense. The fact that they will act shocked on this is appalling. My Neighbor said his nephew said what he experienced there almost made him quit sports journalism cold turkey with how bad it is there. 

This is the part that I get fed up with by a lot of these people overall. A lot of righteousness and virtue signaling by people who really don't care. It's why I never cared for their Colin Kaepernick BS because it was all Virtue Signaling we need to do this for ratings and we might lose viewers if we don't agree with them BS. 

I hate most companies who do this but ESPN is a multiple defenbender on this self holier then thou righteousness. 

 
Skipdog77 said:
Society says its inappropriate.  What is so hard and abhorrent about treating others with respect? 
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Because what society says is appropriate is a terrible standard upon which to base a judgment about the morality of things, at times. Those times (like black men smiling at white women at one point in time) should not be forgotten. Society is not the final arbiter of morality and justice. It is merely instructive, never foolproof.

 
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rockaction said:
This is also not within the scope of his current employment, nor is it even out of the realm of anything but a private discussion.

Imagine if you could get tired for views you hold that are unpopular. Then apply it writ large to society and tell there aren't problems with it.
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What do you mean "tired"? Was that a typo? Did you mean tried? 

Gruden isn't being tried. He's not going to jail. He wrote a bunch of horrible things and apparently has a lot of horrible views. And he was the face of the company. And the owner of that company didn't want those views to be the face anymore. 

Seems pretty damn reasonable to me.

 
jobarules said:
I can't speak for everyone else but didn't think his email about Smith was racist or fireable offense. These latest emails are much worse and definitely fireable.
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Agreed with you on the first email released.  Where have you seen the latest emails?

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I highly doubt that.

The Raiders have been the most inclusive of all NFL franchises, which has made them unpopular with most of the other team owners. 

The Oakland Raiders had the 1st black coach, the first woman to work a front office job, and the 1st Latin American coach in the NFL.

I do not believe they would condone racist, misogynistic or bigoted language from anyone in their organization, much less agree with it. That would be the opposite of everything that team has stood for. 
 
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I think they were the first to fire a black coach too.

So there's that.

 
rockaction said:
Because what society says is appropriate is a terrible standard upon which to base a judgment on, at times. Those times (like black men smiling at white women at one point in time) should not be forgotten. Society is not the final arbiter of morality and justice. It is merely instructive, never foolproof.
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Perhaps, but let's try holding ourselves to a higher standard of civility towards others, and see where that takes us for a bit, shall we?  Can't hurt to try.

 
People are trying to make this about cancel culture or whatever. 

But that doesn't seem correct to me. It seems to me this was the owner of the Raiders (or just John Gruden) realizing he couldn't do his job anymore. And didn't want him representing the Raiders anymore. 

If y'all owned a business, would you want the face of your business saying these horrible things? Is that what you would want your company to be? 

 
One thing I do know: Fantasy will be affected greatly by this if you have any Raiders (I divested myself of all of them).

Wonder what happens to Mayock?

 
Insein said:
How much of this was the Raiders owner seeing the writing on the wall in year 4 of a 10 year, $100m contract and telling Goodell to give him a get out of jail free card. Saved a cool $65m. And I guarantee Mark Davis agreed with and said every same damn thing himself that Gruden has. 
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I might buy this if it was anyone but Mark Davis I might buy it. I think you may be giving him too much credit.

 
whoknew said:
What do you mean "tired"? Was that a typo? Did you mean tried? 

Gruden isn't being tried. He's not going to jail. He wrote a bunch of horrible things and apparently has a lot of horrible views. And he was the face of the company. And the owner of that company didn't want those views to be the face anymore. 

Seems pretty damn reasonable to me.
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Fired. Auto-correct.

 
Insein said:
If he worked for ESPN in 2010, they had ALL of his emails. 
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In that case, he should have known better; but, your jumping to conclusions that ESPN was trawling his email and just waiting for a moment to pounce.  I suspect ESPN was presented with a discovery request, more recenly than 2010.

Let's not kid ourselves, don't piss off Roger Goodell. Jon Gruden should know this.

 
Jackstraw said:
So people are really saying we should openly regard minorities Women and gays as inferior human beings and that should be just like, your opinion man. No harm no Foul? At the very highest level? 
 

Grow up. 
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Amazing how many exceptions to this are made for the "right" people... ala Joy Reid, Kevin Durant, Matt Damon, ad infinitum... 

 
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Mister CIA said:
The email service provided by the company I work at, the company owns the content of email lock, stock, and barrel.  

...and maybe you own and operate your own email service, but when those emails hit a service provided by another entity, they then own those emails lock, stock, and barrel.

We could split a lot of hairs discussing this, but it's a mistake to expect privacy with regards to email.  Maybe Rockaction can't read my email, but there are others who can.
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I spent 10 years in IT.

Company emails were regularly screened by my tech company - they’d screen for keywords (including offensive, racist or bigoted language) and if an employee was under the microscope for anything, you bet their emails were read. 

because the company is as more important than the employee and CYA is a thing that companies do. Sometimes proactively.

and it’s all 100% legal. 

I have no idea how these got out, but powerful people are often targeted for this sort of thing. 

perhaps Gruden should have been smart enough to have not put all of those things in writing in non-private email.

Perhaps he should not have sent the emails to people who might later share them. 

regardless of what people want to blame for this - cancel culture, “the left”, or the boogieman, this was all 100% Gruden’s fault. 

 
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rockaction said:
One thing I do know: Fantasy will be affected greatly by this if you have any Raiders (I divested myself of all of them).

Wonder what happens to Mayock?
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This Raider fan is glad to see Gruden go.   His drafting and handling of personnel was horrible.  Mayock needs to go too.  

 
Also we don’t know what email account these  same from. Why are you assuming it’s from his ESPN work account? 

 
rockaction said:
One thing I do know: Fantasy will be affected greatly by this if you have any Raiders (I divested myself of all of them).

Wonder what happens to Mayock?
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Only relevant post (at least for the Shark Pool) in this dumpster fire. 

You think Raiders are trending down w/o Gruden? Or will there be a regime change? Not sure what the trend is gonna be here, but I wasn't high on the Raiders to begin with.

 
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