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Jon Gruden resigns as Raiders’ HC over emails that spanning a 7 year period ending in 2018. (1 Viewer)

squistion

squistion

Footballguy
I know there is a thread in the Shark Pool, but that may be closed for being political instead of 100% NFL, so let's discuss our thoughts here.

https://www.nfl.com/news/jon-gruden-resigns-as-las-vegas-raiders-head-coach

Jon Gruden resigns as Las Vegas Raiders head coach

Following recent articles in The Wall Street Journal and New York Times detailing the use of racist, homophobic and misogynistic terms by Jon Gruden in emails reportedly dating back to 2010, Gruden has resigned as Las Vegas Raiders head coach, NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported Monday night.

Gruden was five games into the fourth season of a 10-year contract with the franchise, for which he previously coached in a prior stint.

Around the NFL will have more shortly. 

 
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Someone wanted him gone to release emails that old.  Based on what we know this is meh compared to Daniel Snyder.  The NFL wasn't too embarrassed by that stuff I guess.

 
squistion said:
I know there is a thread in the Shark Pool, but that may be closed for being political instead of 100% NFL, so let's discuss our thoughts here.

https://www.nfl.com/news/jon-gruden-resigns-as-las-vegas-raiders-head-coach

Jon Gruden resigns as Las Vegas Raiders head coach

Following recent articles in The Wall Street Journal and New York Times detailing the use of racist, homophobic and misogynistic terms by Jon Gruden in emails reportedly dating back to 2010, Gruden has resigned as Las Vegas Raiders head coach, NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported Monday night.

Gruden was five games into the fourth season of a 10-year contract with the franchise, for which he previously coached in a prior stint.

Around the NFL will have more shortly. 
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What are your thoughts?  All you are doing is posting tweets so far. 

 
Any professional adult in the public spotlight  over the age of 25 who puts things like he said in writing (or on video) get what they deserve when it come to light (and it will).  Extraordinary stupid on Grudens part.  

 
He appears to have said some dastardly things.  His employer can certainly choose to remove him if that is preferable.

While these tactics will not fix anything, they could prove useful as a tactic of intimidation.  Good luck with that.

 
I think he was helping Carr become a better QB.  His personnel moves were atrocious, so I'm not going to cry about this.  I'm not sure I could take another 6-7 years of horrid GM decisions.

 
dkp993 said:
Any professional adult in the public spotlight  over the age of 25 who puts things like he said in writing (or on video) get what they deserve when it come to light (and it will).  Extraordinary stupid on Grudens part.  
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Totally agree in today's world.  10+ years ago I'd still give them a pass.

He said some dumb things, but we have a lot of celebs on record doing dumb things.  He just happened to be one they could live without. 

 
I haven't seen many of the direct quotes but if it's as bad is it seems, this isn't cancel culture run amok.  

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Someone wanted him gone to release emails that old.  Based on what we know this is meh compared to Daniel Snyder.  The NFL wasn't too embarrassed by that stuff I guess.
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I was listening to MNF yesterday and they had Florio on during halftime.  He was saying that the common perception is that the NFL itself has been releasing the emails.  Said they've known about the emails as a result of the WFT investigation, and were basically trying to coax Gruden into resigning without airing all the dirty laundry to make both himself and the NFL look bad.  That's why the one email was released last week, a shot over the bow to give him a chance to get out and save face without the rest of this.  He didn't, so they started turning up the heat by releasing more of the emails until he resigned.

 
Steve Tasker said:
I was listening to MNF yesterday and they had Florio on during halftime.  He was saying that the common perception is that the NFL itself has been releasing the emails.  Said they've known about the emails as a result of the WFT investigation, and were basically trying to coax Gruden into resigning without airing all the dirty laundry to make both himself and the NFL look bad.  That's why the one email was released last week, a shot over the bow to give him a chance to get out and save face without the rest of this.  He didn't, so they started turning up the heat by releasing more of the emails until he resigned.
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Thanks. 

Do you have any links for the video on this?

 
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Stealthycat said:
I read what he said while listening to rap music .... what Jon said didn't seem very offensive at all  
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I see what you did there.....

Of course some things that could be considered offensive within the category of "art" can get away with a little more. Then again, I struggle with this. Being injured by a word is just not something I will ever understand.

 
Steve Tasker said:
I was listening to MNF yesterday and they had Florio on during halftime.  He was saying that the common perception is that the NFL itself has been releasing the emails.  Said they've known about the emails as a result of the WFT investigation, and were basically trying to coax Gruden into resigning without airing all the dirty laundry to make both himself and the NFL look bad.  That's why the one email was released last week, a shot over the bow to give him a chance to get out and save face without the rest of this.  He didn't, so they started turning up the heat by releasing more of the emails until he resigned.
Click to expand...


Has the text of the emails actually been released?  Or just rumors about the content?

 
Stealthycat said:
I read what he said while listening to rap music .... what Jon said didn't seem very offensive at all  
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I can't refer to our clients, co-workers and colleagues by misogynistic, racist or derogatory slurs especially via email communication. Not only is it against firm policy but also against firm culture as we have no tolerance for crass or insulting behavior and we are professionals. If I feel the desire to be an ##### I am free to do it at home but if I bring it to social media or to work they will #### can me in a heartbeat. This is not rocket science.

 
sho nuff said:
Sure…is there a difference between music lyrics and emails about actual people in your business?
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If my business is hiring someone known for misogynistic, homophobic or racist lyrics to perform at their signature event at the same time they oust someone for 10 year old e-mails, I think people may notice some hypocrisy.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
If my business is hiring someone known for misogynistic, homophobic or racist lyrics to perform at their signature event at the same time they oust someone for 10 year old e-mails, I think people may notice some hypocrisy.  
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The Raiders do not make the half time decisions.

And its more than just 10 year old emails.

A bit of hypocrisy?  Sure.

A difference between a night of entertainment vs representative of a franchise though IMO.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
If my business is hiring someone known for misogynistic, homophobic or racist lyrics to perform at their signature event at the same time they oust someone for 10 year old e-mails, I think people may notice some hypocrisy.  
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Agreed. This will be something that will be, and should be talked about. 

To answer the earlier question about how lyrics and emails are different. One way lyrics are different is they are actively and intentionally openly applauded and approved by millions. 

 
knowledge dropper said:
If my business is hiring someone known for misogynistic, homophobic or racist lyrics to perform at their signature event at the same time they oust someone for 10 year old e-mails, I think people may notice some hypocrisy.  
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Not that it makes a difference or even addresses your strawman, some of the emails are as recent as 2018. It was a pattern, and multiple emails over many years.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Agreed. This will be something that will be, and should be talked about. 

To answer the earlier question about how lyrics and emails are different. One way lyrics are different is they are actively and intentionally openly applauded and approved by millions. 
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Because they are entertainment and art.

Vs directly making such statements towards colleagues.

 
FairWarning said:
Idk about that.  The NFL is promoting “Football is Gay”, and having Eminem perform at halftime of their biggest event.  
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Sure and perhaps a different conversation than Gruden.  Eminem has someone me pretty awful lyrics.  Has admitted he has pushed too far.  But also made amends  with others (such as Elton John) in the past.

 
Amused to Death said:
Not that it makes a difference or even addresses your strawman, some of the emails are as recent as 2018. It was a pattern, and multiple emails over many years.
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The “worst” one was ten years ago?

Regardless,  I played football all the way into college.  If I had a dollar for everytime I heard a coach use a synonym for gay or the P word, I would own an island in the Bahamas by now.  I am roughly the same age as Gruden.  That’s the culture.   

 
sho nuff said:
Because they are entertainment and art.

Vs directly making such statements towards colleagues.
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I'm not sure I want to be on board the "Misogyny and homophobia are ok as long as we call it "entertainment" and it's not directed at a specific person we work with" defense. 

 
knowledge dropper said:
The “worst” one was ten years ago?

Regardless,  I played football all the way into college.  If I had a dollar for everytime I heard a coach use a synonym for gay or the P word, I would own an island in the Bahamas by now.  I am roughly the same age as Gruden.  That’s the culture.   
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Cool. And now it isn't. The NFL is trying to be better. We used to do a lot of bad things that are no longer socially acceptable. I know, its hard when we can no longer be misogynistic and homophobic without consequence, but we move on.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Agreed. This will be something that will be, and should be talked about. 

To answer the earlier question about how lyrics and emails are different. One way lyrics are different is they are actively and intentionally openly applauded and approved by millions. 
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I might be reluctant to accept that because the masses applaud something it becomes good or acceptable. In the last few hundred years we have seen this misused. 

I suggest that something can still be wrong even if a large number of people support it. 

I think the best argument could be art.  Because music is an artistic endeavor it is more suitable for people to hide behind the notion of art to defend their hateful thoughts.

 
Joe Bryant said:
I'm not sure I want to be on board the "Misogyny and homophobia are ok as long as we call it "entertainment" and it's not directed at a specific person we work with" defense. 
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I don’t think Im arguing its all ok. 

Just seeing how a lot of things become different when aimed directly at colleagues.

 
Joe Schmo said:
I can't refer to our clients, co-workers and colleagues by misogynistic, racist or derogatory slurs especially via email communication. Not only is it against firm policy but also against firm culture as we have no tolerance for crass or insulting behavior and we are professionals. If I feel the desire to be an ##### I am free to do it at home but if I bring it to social media or to work they will #### can me in a heartbeat. This is not rocket science.
Click to expand...


Gruden should have rapped his comments - then it would have been freedom of speech and art and nobody would have been offended

 
The 2022 Super Bowl Halftime Show is shaping up to be a massive spectacle. Set for Sun., Feb. 13, 2022, Super Bowl LVI will feature a who's-who of living hip-hop legends—including Dr. Dre, Kendrick Lamar, Eminem, Mary J. Blige and Snoop Dogg—entertaining from the 50-yard line at halftime.Oct 4, 2021

Representing the NFL mind you ...

https://exclaim.ca/music/article/dr_dre_deemed_most_profane_mc_in_dirty_word_study

most vulgar ... Dr Dre

"Bixxxes Ain't $xxt" lyrics ............ look them up, listen to the artistry and understand its ok and fine and not anything to get upset about .....   THEN read Jon's comments and come back to me and tell me what the NFL should accept and tolerate and condone

Please - nobody is stupid here

 
the NFL wants a bunch of people/money/sponsors etc to watch the next Super Bowl and they're getting the most popular people for their show ... they don't give a care about how vulgar, nasty, disrespectful, insensitive, homophobic, misogynist etc those people are, they just want to sell tickets and time slots. Reprimand / force out a coach for violating some ethical/moral policy and try to take a high road here ?

please

hypocrites - lets just call it what it is

 
sho nuff said:
Sure and perhaps a different conversation than Gruden.  Eminem has someone me pretty awful lyrics.  Has admitted he has pushed too far.  But also made amends  with others (such as Elton John) in the past.
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What if Gruden made amends 5 years ago?

 
Amused to Death said:
Cool. And now it isn't. The NFL is trying to be better. We used to do a lot of bad things that are no longer socially acceptable. I know, its hard when we can no longer be misogynistic and homophobic without consequence, but we move on.
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How far are we going to go back or does it depend how disposable you think the offender is?

 
Should we get rid of every person in the NFL who shared Gruden’s beliefs about Michael Sam?  There were many who shared it.  

 
Stealthycat said:
the NFL wants a bunch of people/money/sponsors etc to watch the next Super Bowl and they're getting the most popular people for their show ... they don't give a care about how vulgar, nasty, disrespectful, insensitive, homophobic, misogynist etc those people are, they just want to sell tickets and time slots. Reprimand / force out a coach for violating some ethical/moral policy and try to take a high road here ?

please

hypocrites - lets just call it what it is
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Businesses like making money. 

 
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