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Colin Powell, military leader, first black Secretary of State dies (1 Viewer)

Always admired him. Many thought he would have made a good President although I don’t think he ever considered it. 

 
RIP to another who stood up to serve his country in many ways.  

 
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In retrospect, it is highly unlikely he could have ever gotten the GOP nomination had he run in '96. The GOP back then was a lot less right-wing than it is today, but a guy who was pro-choice and pro-affirmative action would never have been able to get the party's base behind him. Plus, the fact that his entire brand was based on his perceived authenticity would have made it impossible for him to suddenly adopt all the right-wing positions the base would have demanded, as we saw in subsequent years where he generally drifted leftward (endorsing Obama and Hillary, changing his mind on gays in the military, etc.)

 
Always admired him. Many thought he would have made a good President although I don’t think he ever considered it. 


Probably wouldn't have gone very far in a Presidential run if he had considered it IMO. His slide show presentation supposedly showing WMDs is what helped sell the war in Iraq to the American public and would have been brought up against him. Now I think he actually believed what he testified too, but it turned out to be false.

 
Probably wouldn't have gone very far in a Presidential run if he had considered it IMO. His slide show presentation supposedly showing WMDs is what helped sell the war in Iraq to the American public and would have been brought up against him. Now I think he actually believed what he testified too, but it turned out to be false.
He was considering the presidential run in '96

 
Probably wouldn't have gone very far in a Presidential run if he had considered it IMO. His slide show presentation supposedly showing WMDs is what helped sell the war in Iraq to the American public and would have been brought up against him. Now I think he actually believed what he testified too, but it turned out to be false.




He was considering the presidential run in '96


And in 2000

Both before any Iraq WMD declarations were made by him.

 
RIP.  Always like how he carried himself and came across as a man of honor   

It’s a shame he’s the face of the WMD debacle. He took one on the chin for the Administration.  


I don't understand why people paint him as a victim in this.  He chose to wager his rather impeccable credibility on a matter that was causing debate and division.  I personally saw him as being trustworthy and it cost hundreds of thousands of lives.  It was his job to be responsible for what is coming out of his mouth and he failed a generation of Americans.  

 
I don't understand why people paint him as a victim in this.  He chose to wager his rather impeccable credibility on a matter that was causing debate and division.  I personally saw him as being trustworthy and it cost hundreds of thousands of lives.  It was his job to be responsible for what is coming out of his mouth and he failed a generation of Americans.  
All that’s fair for sure, and victim is not what I’d call him.  But he has become the face of this whole thing, because of the testimony we’ve all seen 100’s of times, while Chaney was truly the one driving the bus.  He’s not faultless for sure and likely gambled something would be uncovered.  But the forces working behind him were the power.  

 
I don't understand why people paint him as a victim in this.  He chose to wager his rather impeccable credibility on a matter that was causing debate and division.  I personally saw him as being trustworthy and it cost hundreds of thousands of lives.  It was his job to be responsible for what is coming out of his mouth and he failed a generation of Americans.  
I agree with you that "just following orders" with the UN presentation is a pretty big stain, but I don't have it in me to dwell on that today.  For Powell's sake I wish we could change time and put him in the role he was really meant to be in at that point in time - Secretary of Education.  Bu it wasn't to be.

 
Probably wouldn't have gone very far in a Presidential run if he had considered it IMO. His slide show presentation supposedly showing WMDs is what helped sell the war in Iraq to the American public and would have been brought up against him. Now I think he actually believed what he testified too, but it turned out to be false.


You never know.  Biden put tens of thousands of low income blacks in prison and was proud of it with his crime bill.   That did not hurt him.

 
I agree with you that "just following orders" with the UN presentation is a pretty big stain, but I don't have it in me to dwell on that today.  For Powell's sake I wish we could change time and put him in the role he was really meant to be in at that point in time - Secretary of Education.  Bu it wasn't to be.
He’s Colin Powell.  He was quite possibly at the time the most respected and admired man in America on both sides of the aisle, he doesn’t take a back seat to anyone.  I know death invites a certain level of hagiography and listen, Godspeed to him on his journey.  But his failure here ruined scores of lives so his celebrated life should be checked against the ones who’s names we will never know.

Powell had a chance to standup and make a difference in many places and whiffed or was too small repeatedly.  He was by far a net negative in this world and this should be be acknowledged.  

 
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I don't like the idea of criticizing someone after death.  But the way these public figures are completely whitewashed and valorized as heroes after death is disturbing.  Younger generations watching the news would probably have no idea that Powell used his stature to sell the Bush administration's lies on Iraq, a war that killed a million people and caused untold suffering.  It changed the world forever, for the worse.  He almost certainly could have ended the whole thing himself but chose to lie instead.

Like I say, it's not fun going there, but the way news media bathes these people in praise makes it seem necessary to be at least somewhat critical about their record.  Political figures that make hugely consequential decisions that ruined millions of people's lives need to have it reflected in their legacy, otherwise it will happen again and again.  

 
Carter, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Biden all with supportive positive words. 
Interesting. One name notably missing from this list. I suspect it'll never be added. 
Well, here we go

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1450455942714306566

Wonderful to see Colin Powell, who made big mistakes on Iraq and famously, so-called weapons of mass destruction, be treated in death so beautifully by the Fake News Media. Hope that happens to me someday. He was a classic RINO, if even that, always being the first to attack other Republicans. He made plenty of mistakes, but anyway, may he rest in peace!

What a ####### turd.

 
Well, here we go

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1450455942714306566

Wonderful to see Colin Powell, who made big mistakes on Iraq and famously, so-called weapons of mass destruction, be treated in death so beautifully by the Fake News Media. Hope that happens to me someday. He was a classic RINO, if even that, always being the first to attack other Republicans. He made plenty of mistakes, but anyway, may he rest in peace!

What a ####### turd.
This from the guy 35% of the country still adores. Pathetic. Human. Being. 

I'm being generous in my statement here as I don't believe he resembles anything close to a human being. He is so very much lower on the evolutionary scale.

 
He’s Colin Powell.  He was quite possibly at the time the most respected and admired man in America on both sides of the aisle, he doesn’t take a back seat to anyone.  I know death invites a certain level of hagiography and listen, Godspeed to him on his journey.  But his failure here ruined scores of lives so his celebrated life should be checked against the ones who’s names we will never know.

Powell had a chance to standup and make a difference in many places and whiffed or was too small repeatedly.  He was by far a net negative in this world and this should be be acknowledged.  


Powell was a little  ahead of my time but it seems that he made great strides in climbing the military ladder, but very bad decisons when he was at the top.  Our military has had some bad decison makers even recently.

 
Well, here we go

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1450455942714306566

Wonderful to see Colin Powell, who made big mistakes on Iraq and famously, so-called weapons of mass destruction, be treated in death so beautifully by the Fake News Media. Hope that happens to me someday. He was a classic RINO, if even that, always being the first to attack other Republicans. He made plenty of mistakes, but anyway, may he rest in peace!

What a ####### turd.
In his sick worldview, Rush Limbaugh is a hero, and Colin Powell is a villain.

 
This from the guy 35% of the country still adores. Pathetic. Human. Being. 

I'm being generous in my statement here as I don't believe he resembles anything close to a human being. He is so very much lower on the evolutionary scale.
And of course inserts that donate button.

 
Well, here we go

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1450455942714306566

Wonderful to see Colin Powell, who made big mistakes on Iraq and famously, so-called weapons of mass destruction, be treated in death so beautifully by the Fake News Media. Hope that happens to me someday. He was a classic RINO, if even that, always being the first to attack other Republicans. He made plenty of mistakes, but anyway, may he rest in peace!

What a ####### turd.
What a total disgrace.

 
Well, here we go

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1450455942714306566

Wonderful to see Colin Powell, who made big mistakes on Iraq and famously, so-called weapons of mass destruction, be treated in death so beautifully by the Fake News Media. Hope that happens to me someday. He was a classic RINO, if even that, always being the first to attack other Republicans. He made plenty of mistakes, but anyway, may he rest in peace!

What a ####### turd.


We tend to want to make our public figures into heroes and villains in death.  It's foolish, but we continue to do it.  Powell was an extraordinarily accomplished man, who served this country well for a number of years.  He also made a horrendous mistake in selling the WMD story to enable the Iraq invasion.  Figuring out which outweighs the other is for people to decide on their own.

That said, this statement by trump is despicable.  This is exactly the kind of behavior that I find so infuriating in that it should be enough to cost him support, and end his relevance on the political stage.  It's repulsive to be so disrespectful of someone in death, especially someone who's mistakes can safely be said to have brought forth unintended consequences, not having caused intentional damage.  Nobody believes Powell made that pitch to the UN knowing exactly what would follow.  It was a mistake, a huge one, but a mistake. 

While I don't agree with the isolationist, nativist, nationalist policies that are MAGA, I at least understand them, as misguided as I find them.  I understand that some want this country to operate differently than me and I am fine with that.  The fact that this is the man that many will support, regardless of what he says or does, to achieve those policies, is so disturbing, and disheartening.  

 
He’s Colin Powell.  He was quite possibly at the time the most respected and admired man in America on both sides of the aisle, he doesn’t take a back seat to anyone.  I know death invites a certain level of hagiography and listen, Godspeed to him on his journey.  But his failure here ruined scores of lives so his celebrated life should be checked against the ones who’s names we will never know.

Powell had a chance to standup and make a difference in many places and whiffed or was too small repeatedly.  He was by far a net negative in this world and this should be be acknowledged.  
He was hardly the worst person in terms of pushing the Iraq War, but the fact that he lent his stature to the effort made a big difference. He also deserves credit for showing far more introspection on the issue than just about anyone else who served in the Bush Administration.

On a personal level, I always found him to be admirable. If you think that we have to render a single thumbs-up/down verdict on his life, well, that's a big part of what's wrong with society today.

 
I don't like the idea of criticizing someone after death.  But the way these public figures are completely whitewashed and valorized as heroes after death is disturbing.  Younger generations watching the news would probably have no idea that Powell used his stature to sell the Bush administration's lies on Iraq, a war that killed a million people and caused untold suffering.  It changed the world forever, for the worse.  He almost certainly could have ended the whole thing himself but chose to lie instead.

Like I say, it's not fun going there, but the way news media bathes these people in praise makes it seem necessary to be at least somewhat critical about their record.  Political figures that make hugely consequential decisions that ruined millions of people's lives need to have it reflected in their legacy, otherwise it will happen again and again.  


I agree with most of this, but question your assertion - "He almost certainly could have ended the whole thing himself."  Bush and Cheney were leading the charge on behalf of their constituents on this war and they had plenty of lackeys to back them - Rumsfeld and Rice obviously, among others, and a compliant media.  Powell's fraud of course helped tremendously with the public perception, but I don't think he alone could have stopped this multi-trillion dollar fraud.

 
I agree with most of this, but question your assertion - "He almost certainly could have ended the whole thing himself."  Bush and Cheney were leading the charge on behalf of their constituents on this war and they had plenty of lackeys to back them - Rumsfeld and Rice obviously, among others, and a compliant media.  Powell's fraud of course helped tremendously with the public perception, but I don't think he alone could have stopped this multi-trillion dollar fraud.


Are you insinuating that Powell knew it was fraud?  I always figured he was duped by the intelligence reports. 

 
Folks have a strong tendency to admire people who acknowledge they made mistakes and eloquently show they are patriotic and legitimately show they care for their fellow man. And on the flip side are really disgusted with those that can't. 45 had the opportunity to do what was best for the country by acknowledging he lost the election. I'll take the Powells, McCains and GH Bushs all day long long and twice on Sunday over you know who.

 
Are you insinuating that Powell knew it was fraud? 
We all knew!   Most of us (me included) just didn't think it mattered.  And if the administration that ran for office explicitly rejecting "nation building" didn't get us started in two endless nation building projects we might still think that way, but.... 

 
He was hardly the worst person in terms of pushing the Iraq War, but the fact that he lent his stature to the effort made a big difference. He also deserves credit for showing far more introspection on the issue than just about anyone else who served in the Bush Administration.

On a personal level, I always found him to be admirable. If you think that we have to render a single thumbs-up/down verdict on his life, well, that's a big part of what's wrong with society today.
You’re entitled to your opinion and your perception is your own but I do wonder, what was admirable to him beyond stoic charisma and measured speech?   He showed no integrity with My Lai, and he had first hand knowledge of war and still sent thousands of Americans and a million Iraqis to their death pursuing.. take your pick… ineptitude, a bush vendetta, corporate treasure.

I think Ren is right I’m these ego driven careerists respond to little but I think their legacy is a powerful one, and to white wash everything they did in death does nothing to correct for the future.

For reference, I think McCain is a hero based on strictly his pre political life.  

i see nothing courageous in Powell’s record.  Had a chance to but was ultimately a weathervane 

 
If he was duped did he ever demand accountability from those that allegedly duped him?


I'm not sure if did personally. If so, I'm unaware of it, 

But we as a people do not demand accountability from anyone, and haven't for some time now, and how could you when only half the media will investigate and do the work to find out who is accountable. Then the other tribe just laughs at the source, and claims it to be false. 

 
I'm not sure if did personally. If so, I'm unaware of it, 

But we as a people do not demand accountability from anyone, and haven't for some time now, and how could you when only half the media will investigate and do the work to find out who is accountable. Then the other tribe just laughs at the source, and claims it to be false. 
In this case Powell owns it.  The evidence was flimsy at the time.  He was the fulcrum of support for the invasion.  It’s weak noise if he passed the buck to his subordinates.  

 
In this case Powell owns it.  The evidence was flimsy at the time.  He was the fulcrum of support for the invasion.  It’s weak noise if he passed the buck to his subordinates.  


I can agree with that. 

I think he was just a good soldier, that would give his opinion when asked, then would carry out orders when commanded.  There could be good and bad in a person like that. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I agree with most of this, but question your assertion - "He almost certainly could have ended the whole thing himself."  Bush and Cheney were leading the charge on behalf of their constituents on this war and they had plenty of lackeys to back them - Rumsfeld and Rice obviously, among others, and a compliant media.  Powell's fraud of course helped tremendously with the public perception, but I don't think he alone could have stopped this multi-trillion dollar fraud.
Powell was uniquely positioned as a universally respected figure in the Bush admin.  He could have probably blown the whole thing up during his testimony at the UN, or at the very least resigned in protest.  There just wasn’t much pushback at all from people in power at the time- everyone just sort of went along with it.  

 
Powell was uniquely positioned as a universally respected figure in the Bush admin.  He could have probably blown the whole thing up during his testimony at the UN, or at the very least resigned in protest.  There just wasn’t much pushback at all from people in power at the time- everyone just sort of went along with it.  
90% of the US population was pro-invasion.  This was even before Powell gave his UN speech.  I would have loved to have seen him resign instead of going along.  But he would have been crucified back home and his career would have been over.  Look what happened to other Americans who were denouncing the invasion at the time.

 
90% of the US population was pro-invasion.  This was even before Powell gave his UN speech.  I would have loved to have seen him resign instead of going along.  But he would have been crucified back home and his career would have been over.  Look what happened to other Americans who were denouncing the invasion at the time.
Afghan war yes

No way were they at that level prior to Powell testifying 

 
the moops said:
Well, here we go

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1450455942714306566

Wonderful to see Colin Powell, who made big mistakes on Iraq and famously, so-called weapons of mass destruction, be treated in death so beautifully by the Fake News Media. Hope that happens to me someday. He was a classic RINO, if even that, always being the first to attack other Republicans. He made plenty of mistakes, but anyway, may he rest in peace!

What a ####### turd.
Class act for sure. 

 
Afghan war yes

No way were they at that level prior to Powell testifying 
They were close.  I'm from Canada and the place I worked it at the time had 2 guys from the US.  One was a Dem and one was a Republican.  I used to argue with them constantly during the pre-invasion.  They were both completely dug in (as was most of the US).  I tried pointing out how Israel had Iraq only listed as a moderate threat, and other evidence that went contrary to what Bush was trying to sell the public.  And then when that joke of a UN presentation happened, I pointed out that all Powell really did was point out that some Iraqi's have class 1 licenses and they are allowed to drive around rigs.  This still didn't sway them.

I would think that Powell's presentation would have hurt the cause for going to war, more than help it.  It was pretty much laughed at.

 
90% of the US population was pro-invasion.  This was even before Powell gave his UN speech.  I would have loved to have seen him resign instead of going along.  But he would have been crucified back home and his career would have been over.  Look what happened to other Americans who were denouncing the invasion at the time.


In particular Phil Donahue, whose show was cancelled by MSNBC (yes, that MSNBC) because of his opposition to entering the war.

 

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