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Stub Hub/Ticket Master Arbitrage Idea (1 Viewer)

chet

chet

Footballguy
I am a STH of the Blackhawks.  The Blackhawks make it really easy to list tickets for games that I am unable to attend--literally 30 seconds if I know the price.  As such, I don't list them on Stub Hub.  

However, I noticed that someone has "scraped" Ticket Master and listed my tix on Stub Hub for a hefty markup.  They are hoping someone buys them on SH and then they will purchase them on TM and pocket the difference.  I have mixed feelings about this--on one hand, my tix are being marketed more widely but on the other hand, a scalper is gouging someone else and making $$ off of my tix.  What do people think of this?

Here's my idea.  I've noticed that there's a lag between when I change the price of my tix and when they change the price on SH.  I have tested this and know it to be true.  I was thinking of listing the tix on TM, waiting until they are "scraped" and listed on SH and then jacking the price on TM and then buying them for the lower price on SH. Is this illegal or unethical?

Here are some responses to probable questions.  He won't be able to replace the tix with similar or better seats because they don't exist in my section for the number of seats I have.  He will either have to cancel my purchase or bite the bullet and buy my tix from TM.

Thoughts?

 
I think he would have problems because he doesn't have the tix.  It's been awhile since I begrudgingly listed my tix on Stub hub but I thought you had to have some "proof" of actually having the tix.  I find it odd that this guy can list something on SH that he doesn't actually have.  Also, if he gets burned once (sell his SH tix and not be able to get your TM tix) he would be dinged by SH and eventually not be able to post.  

Personally I would rather report this user to SH and get him banned than try and beat the system to make him pay.  

 
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Sounds like you've come up with a way to potentially scalp a scalper.  Interesting.

If it works, the person got what they had coming.  No guilt on your end.

 
Why not.  Doesn't sound illegal or unethical.  Should provide some entertainment for an otherwise dull activity.  Lots of things must align but I'd give it a go.  

 
This happened maybe 10 years ago with a textbook on Amazon.

Someone listed a book for sale on Amazon. It was a textbook that only had been printed in small quantities, so, it was the only copy available. He listed it for like $50 as a guess (no other sales to compare it to), but used some seller's software/app to adjust the price... he set up a rule so that if another copy became available, his price would change to $5 below the other copy's asking price. Because he wanted to be rid of it.

Someone else had set up an Amazon storefront selling textbooks. Their storefront scraped Amazon for textbooks and listed it under their storefront for like $20 more than the other seller. However, they had SEO which put them at the top of the results list. Their business model was to capture the clicks at the top of the list, have people buy the book from them, and they'd buy it from the original seller and pocket the markup. This was all automated by another software/app.

So when the first guy's app saw the second listing, it moved the price up to $5 below the second guy. The second guy's app saw the price increase and raised their price to $20 more to protect the markup.

The two apps battled for a month before anyone noticed. By then the textbook was priced at about $23,000,000.

 
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Meanwhile, I was looking at StubHub for tickets to an event I was considering attending next month. 

The reason I was looking at StubHub is that this event is at reduced capacity due to covid. Specifically, no general-admission tickets were issued due to local health regulations. Every ticket was a high-priced reserved "experience" ticket, not a normal GA, for box seats/restaurant/etc. seating.

However, I saw plenty of listings on StubHub for GA tickets, which I know do not exist. I'm not sure how that's supposed to work.

Anyway, the whole ticket reselling experience feels scammy. There's always that thought that until you're through the turnstile, everything is fake and you've been had. 

 
I lowered the price on one set of tix over an hour ago and the scraper just lowered his SH price now.  

The risk I see is that a third party buys the tix off of TM before they're listed on SH.

 
I would expect he would just cancel your purchase.   I highly doubt he's just gonna eat the difference.   If this is your idea of entertainment, go ahead and please report back.   

 
Runkle said:
There's always that thought that until you're through the turnstile, everything is fake and you've been had. 
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Especially if you're traveling a ways to get to the show.  I have no concern about getting my money back, but to make the trip usually in a tight window just to have to turn around is crap.  

 
NutterButter said:
Especially if you're traveling a ways to get to the show.  I have no concern about getting my money back, but to make the trip usually in a tight window just to have to turn around is crap.  
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Right. I'm looking at travel, hotel, two/three days... and then I show up and the guy at the entrance says "these are bogus" and I'm SOL. I'm sure all StubHub would do is, maybe, give me a refund if I complain about it for four months, if I'm lucky. Entirely possible they won't do jack####, I've had this happen before... "UPS shows the tickets were delivered, so we're washing our hands of it. You have no claim." But still I'd be out all the other costs.

There's very little assurance in the reselling biz. I don't trust it at all. There needs to be better verification, ideally ticket resales would be processed or somehow confirmed by the original venue that they're legit.

Seeing tickets I know don't exist listed on StubHub and SeatGeek is not reassuring.

 
Runkle said:
Right. I'm looking at travel, hotel, two/three days... and then I show up and the guy at the entrance says "these are bogus" and I'm SOL. I'm sure all StubHub would do is, maybe, give me a refund if I complain about it for four months, if I'm lucky. Entirely possible they won't do jack####, I've had this happen before... "UPS shows the tickets were delivered, so we're washing our hands of it. You have no claim." But still I'd be out all the other costs.

There's very little assurance in the reselling biz. I don't trust it at all. There needs to be better verification, ideally ticket resales would be processed or somehow confirmed by the original venue that they're legit.

Seeing tickets I know don't exist listed on StubHub and SeatGeek is not reassuring.
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Ticketmaster is doing this with the NHL.  They remove the tix from your account when they sell so the buyer is guaranteed they're real.

 
I think you should just list your tickets for whatever price you are happy to get for them. If somebody else is able to act as a middle man and make a little coin on the side while getting you your desired price—so be it.  Appreciate the hustle. 

 
If it bothers you that much, just buy his tickets and take yours off as soon as the transaction goes through. Then ask him how he's going to sell tickets that you currently own and report him. 

 
Gally said:
I think he would have problems because he doesn't have the tix.  It's been awhile since I begrudgingly listed my tix on Stub hub but I thought you had to have some "proof" of actually having the tix.  I find it odd that this guy can list something on SH that he doesn't actually have.  Also, if he gets burned once (sell his SH tix and not be able to get your TM tix) he would be dinged by SH and eventually not be able to post.  

Personally I would rather report this user to SH and get him banned than try and beat the system to make him pay.  
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I think you pay SH for the tickets, the seller sends them.  If the buyer doesn’t get them, the money is refunded.  The Seller doesn’t get paid until after the event.  It’s a great way for people to abuse the system like the OP stated.  I have a problem with ticket brokers in general.   

 
FairWarning said:
I think you pay SH for the tickets, the seller sends them.  If the buyer doesn’t get them, the money is refunded.  The Seller doesn’t get paid until after the event.  It’s a great way for people to abuse the system like the OP stated.  I have a problem with ticket brokers in general.   
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I got paid immediately when I sold on SH.  You had to load the tax in their site but the transaction was immediate.

 
Gally said:
I got paid immediately when I sold on SH.  You had to load the tax in their site but the transaction was immediate.
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They must have changed the policy.  I knew someone who sold his WS tickets on there and that was the policy at the time. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I think you should just list your tickets for whatever price you are happy to get for them. If somebody else is able to act as a middle man and make a little coin on the side while getting you your desired price—so be it.  Appreciate the hustle. 
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Agreed. Unless for some reason Chet is selling them for face to be cool and then this guy is jacking them up, that would piss me off for sure.  If you are both making profit, I don't see the big deal here.

 
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