Bette Midler not a WV fan (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant said:

Let's not pretend Bette Midler is the only person who thinks West Virginia is full of strung out uneducated poor people.

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Yenrub said:

Let’s not pretend that all the people who think that represents just one political party 

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The General said:

Here is the guy who runs WV response to Midler: Link

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The General said:

Here is the guy who runs WV response to Midler: Link

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BTW, here are the state rankings of all the areas and agencies for which the so-called “Governor” of WVA, #JimJustice, is responsible. Judging from these rankings, I’d say his dog’s ### would make a better Governor than him!

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Joe Bryant said:

And for what it's worth, the Bette Middler / West Virginia / Governor thing is an almost perfect illustration of the article I often link that I think does the best job of explaining how Trump was able to gain traction in these areas that I've seen. Like the author, I know plenty of people like he's taking about and I think he's spot on. 

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James Daulton said:

I'm curious though.  Trump has exactly zero in common with working class people.  He's a silver spoon, New York real estate mogul who flaunts his wealth and loved to be seen with the Hollywood jet set.

Exactly how did that guy appeal to the working man?  It's a mystery to me.

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"But Trump is objectively a piece of ####!" you say. "He insults people, he objectifies women, and cheats whenever possible! And he's not an everyman; he's a smarmy, arrogant billionaire!"

Wait, are you talking about Donald Trump, or this guy: (Picture of Marvel's Tony Stark / Iron Man)

You've never rooted for somebody like that? Someone powerful who gives your enemies the insults they deserve? Somebody with big fun appetites who screws up just enough to make them relatable? Like Dr. House or Walter White? Or any of the several million renegade cop characters who can break all the rules because they get #### done? Who only get #### done because they don't care about the rules?

"But those are fictional characters!" Okay, what about all those millionaire left-leaning talk show hosts? You think they keep their insults classy? Tune into any bit about Chris Christie and start counting down the seconds until the fat joke. Google David Letterman's sex scandals. But it's okay, because they're on our side, and everybody wants an ####### on their team -- a spiked bat to smash their enemies with. That's all Trump is. The howls of elite outrage are like the sounds of bombs landing on the enemy's fortress. The louder the better.

Already some of you have gotten angry, feeling this gut-level revulsion at any attempt to excuse or even understand these people. After all, they're hardly people, right? Aren't they just a mass of ignorant, rageful, crude, cursing, spitting subhumans?

Gee, I hope not. I have to hug a bunch of them at Thanksgiving. And when I do, it will be with the knowledge that if I hadn't moved away, I'd be on the other side of the fence, leaving nasty comments on this article the alternate universe version of me wrote. 

It feels good to dismiss people, to mock them, to write them off as deplorables. But you might as well take time to try to understand them, because I'm telling you, they'll still be around long after Trump is gone.

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Joe Bryant said:

I agree that part is fascinating. I remember thinking too way back when he was in the primary, "Yeah right, a yankee with gold toilets in the mansion is going to connect with a guy struggling to make rent in West Virginia". But he did. And also talks about the "nothing in common" thing. That explains some of the stuff not just about how a poor person could relate to Trump but how people who are nice or kind or don't do the insults like he does. 

The article I linked talks about it. 

https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about
 

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Joe Bryant said:

That's a good picture of how it spirals downward.

He should have been above that but lots of people understand how he feels after her tweet regarding Joe Manchin and the state of West Virginia "“He sold us out. He wants us all to be just like his state, West Virginia. Poor, illiterate and strung out.” Even with an apology later, lots of people don't forget. 

So the governor, who should be well above dropping to her level did what he did. 

Then she quickly replies in a tweet that sounds like something Donald Trump would post. Complete with the exclamation point at the end. 

https://twitter.com/BetteMidler/status/1487164407755026443?s=20&t=hpV5UHTBfExWwcKV6lhDew

It's just an ugly downward and divisive spiral where everyone gets to high five their side for the zinger but in my opinion, everyone looks bad.

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James Daulton said:

So basically it's all about owning the libs.  Why now?  Why is this one of the primary factors for so many Republicans now?  For the life of me I'll never understand it.  So many intelligent, well meaning conservatives out there and so many rural and christian conservatives rally behind someone who's the embodiment of what they despise like Trump.

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Joe Bryant said:

Not "all about owning the libs". But I think as the article says, that's some of it. 

I feel certain there were lots of people who looked at the governor holding dog up like he and felt "Finally, someone standing up for us. Let them keep on with the "strung out hillbilly" shots but finally, someone standing up for us." 

I don't agree with it and I think the governor should not drop to her level, but I totally understand it. And I understand the people who feel like they've been mocked and derided for years. 

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James Daulton said:

Prior to Trump, why did these folks feel they were mocked an derided?  Who mocked and derided them?  Am I so far removed that I just don't see it?  Don't rural folks tend to hang out with other rural folks, so who was doing the mocking?  Is it all late night shows or something?  

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Joe Bryant said:

From 1976.

New Yorker looking West from Manhattan.

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The General said:

This does go the other way with the rural folks thinking that big city are filled with inept city slickers. 

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Joe Bryant said:

Absolutely. All kinds of bubbles on both sides.

I think what the cracked article hit more though is the city side has a much louder voice in culture and media and what is "heard". 

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The General said:

In culture perhaps although as it is pointed out Let’s Go Brandon songs are number 1 on iTunes a lot.

Politically the Senate is weighted towards the rural side which I’d argue is much more important that people’s perception that they are being looked down upon. 

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Joe Bryant said:

For sure. Many rural people see the Senate as their voice so they're not over run as a minority voice. Lots of people don't see that as a negative. 

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James Daulton said:

Prior to Trump, why did these folks feel they were mocked an derided?  Who mocked and derided them?  Am I so far removed that I just don't see it?  Don't rural folks tend to hang out with other rural folks, so who was doing the mocking?  Is it all late night shows or something?  

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Ruffrodys05 said:

I can't imagine the billionaire they elected Governor or the millionaire they elected to the House represents any of their legitimate beefs either. How could either of those "gentlemen" possibly relate to the common West Virginian?

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KarmaPolice said:

At the end of the day IMO the sad reality is all this political posturing means jack as it's a battle of the have and have nots.   Damn near all of these people elected are "haves", no matter what letter they have after their name and they have a very similar circle of campaign donors to keep happy.   

As has been discussed a lot in threads, addressing poverty/education/wealth gap is probably the biggest step to addressing the groups that both sides are fighting about, but actually doing much about these would go against the donor class of these parties.  

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Joe Bryant said:

Absolutely. All kinds of bubbles on both sides.

I think what the cracked article hit more though is the city side has a much louder voice in culture and media and what is "heard". 

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James Daulton said:

So basically it's all about owning the libs.  Why now?  Why is this one of the primary factors for so many Republicans now?  For the life of me I'll never understand it.  So many intelligent, well meaning conservatives out there and so many rural and christian conservatives rally behind someone who's the embodiment of what they despise like Trump.

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quick-hands said:

I suppose the real question is "what is it about the libs that makes 'rural and Christian conservatives stand behind someone who's the embodiment of what they despise like trump?'"

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quick-hands said:

They are just MAGA types just coalesce around stopping women and gays, I suppose.

Or maybe being talked down to and being mocked is why they want to own they would rather roll with a guy like Trump.

I suppose the real question is "what is it about the libs that makes 'rural and Christian conservatives stand behind someone who's the embodiment of what they despise like trump?'"

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James Daulton said:

What is the epidemic of rural folks being talked down to and mocked?  Again, don't rural folks mostly interact with other rural folks?  Who's doing the talking down?  Big business?  Big education?  The government?  I know Joe's article is good but I really really don't understand why rural folks feel that way.  Hell I'm Polish and Polish jokes have been around forever.  I don't feel mocked or anything. 

And let's remember, these folks who apparently are so upset at being talked down to and mocked have as one of their primary reasons for supporting Trump is owning the libs.  Crazy town if you ask me.  Libs never have mocking conservatives as one of their primary reasons for supporting a candidate.  

So I read the article again and it seems like the perception comes from a couple of tv shows and movies?  And the author even notes that in most movies and shows, the rural folks are the heroes.  So entertainment and what they perceive liberals to be thinking.  Those to me seem to be pretty flimsy reasons for supporting a narcissistic, rich, lying, pandering, not smart guy like Trump.

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Try telling that to anybody who lives in Trump country.

They're getting the #### kicked out of them. I know, I was there. Step outside of the city, and the suicide rate among young people ####### doubles. The recession pounded rural communities, but all the recovery went to the cities. The rate of new businesses opening in rural areas has utterly collapsed.

See, rural jobs used to be based around one big local business -- a factory, a coal mine, etc. When it dies, the town dies. Where I grew up, it was an oil refinery closing that did us in. I was raised in the hollowed-out shell of what the town had once been. The roof of our high school leaked when it rained. Cities can make up for the loss of manufacturing jobs with service jobs -- small towns cannot. That model doesn't work below a certain population density.

If you don't live in one of these small towns, you can't understand the hopelessness. The vast majority of possible careers involve moving to the city, and around every city is now a hundred-foot wall called "Cost of Living." Let's say you're a smart kid making $8 an hour at Walgreen's and aspire to greater things. Fine, get ready to move yourself and your new baby into a 700-square-foot apartment for $1,200 a month, and to then pay double what you're paying now for utilities, groceries, and babysitters. Unless, of course, you're planning to move to one of "those" neighborhoods (hope you like being set on fire!).

In a city, you can plausibly aspire to start a band, or become an actor, or get a medical degree. You can actually have dreams. In a small town, there may be no venues for performing arts aside from country music bars and churches. There may only be two doctors in town -- aspiring to that job means waiting for one of them to retire or die. You open the classifieds and all of the job listings will be for fast food or convenience stores. The "downtown" is just the corpses of mom and pop stores left shattered in Walmart's blast crater, the "suburbs" are trailer parks. There are parts of these towns that look post-apocalyptic.

I'm telling you, the hopelessness eats you alive.

And if you dare complain, some liberal elite will pull out their iPad and type up a rant about your racist white privilege. Already, someone has replied to this with a comment saying, "You should try living in a ghetto as a minority!" Exactly. To them, it seems like the plight of poor minorities is only used as a club to bat away white cries for help. Meanwhile, the rate of rural white suicides and overdoses skyrockets. ####, at least politicians act like they care about the inner cities.

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Joe Bryant said:

I don't think anyone's calling it an "epidemic". What I'm talking about was mostly addressed in the article.  I don't think it's as easily dismissed as saying it's about a couple of tv shows.

I think the author framed it pretty well in that it's about cities vs rural. And the "rural areas have been beaten to ####."

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James Daulton said:

I clearly don't have the life experience to relate so I'll stop commenting.  But thanks a lot for the article it was really interesting and thought provoking. 

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