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Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him (1 Viewer)

I identify mostly Independent: Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Rep


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Tend to agree with these points. While we play "Team Politics" fighting over the the culture war issues of the day.
Yep. I am certainly guilty of fighting because these are important issues to us. How can we not care? The problem is, we are dividing ourselves and the “We the People” thing is true - but can never come to fruition if we fight amongst ourselves.

We need a true leader. (I dont think Trump was/is that guy FTR) Unfortunaly- the way the system is set up- those people get silenced before they ever gain momentum. Tulsi Gabbard is a small example of that. She doesn’t use big corp money. She speaks her mind and from the heart. She’s a minority woman and the perfect candidate you would think. However, if you ask Democrats they say she’s a Republican. She’s not a Republican so the Republicans won’t support her.

We are in a pickle. I’m not going into politics (and again I lack the skills to unite the people), so until I see the leader that we need I’m just throwing my hands up in the air and voting for chaos.

 
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Is this what your warped brain thinks I’m talking about? No, I’m not talking about violently attacking government officials. 
 

I’m talking about peacefully abstaining from voting or voting third-party. Anything but following the same system that is gotten us to this point. 
 

Removing the one renegade (Trump) And voting for the same dopes over and over so you can go back to your head in the sand (normal) is a mistake
But that is exactly what happened.

Ive voted 3rd party (didn't vote for Trump or Hillary).

You stated we need more of Trump...more of Trump gives us more of what we saw on January 6th...it just is...its all he will continue to do is push that type of divide.  he lives off of it...he craves it...that is what blowing it all up will look like.

 
Trump fires warning shot

Govern yourself accordingly, GOP congressional candidates.


Wow he managed to fit all his favorite buzzwords into the first two sentences.  Must have assumed people weren't going to read beyond that.

Interesting to note that Trump now considers people who don't believe he had the election stolen from him as part of the "woke" crowd.

I wonder how Republicans that don't believe he had the election stolen from him are going to react to being lumped in with "woke" folks after the way they've demonized that word.

 
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Wow he managed to fit all his favorite buzzwords into the first two sentences.  Must have assumed people weren't going to read beyond that.

Interesting to note that Trump now considers people who don't believe he had the election stolen from him as part of the "woke" crowd.

I wonder how Republicans that don't believe he stole the election are going to react to being lumped in with "woke" folks after the way they've demonized that word.


I have no idea how all 20 of them will feel.  :shrug:

Probably won't like it, but no big deal.

 
Shows just how sad and pathetic the Republican party is when the only GOP Senator to defend him against Trump's insane rampage is Sen Romney.

 
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Shows just how sad and pathetic the Republican party is when the only GOP Senator to defend him against Trump's insane rampage is Sen Romney.


Or maybe they have better things to do than give any credibility to the rantings of a loser? 

Do you really need EVERY member of the entire GOP party to chime in here?

 
BR brings up a good point.  Are we supposed to be disappointed more from the GOP aren't giving Trump more attention and rebutting all his rants?   

Is it acceptance through silence or are they doing their job and ignoring the guy like we wish more would?

 
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This was a brilliant reply.  He didn't even say Trump's name.  Just 'former president'.  He ignored the insults and made a great reply that is somewhat dismissive of Trump and forward looking.

This could be the start of some momentum to weaken Trump's position in the party if it is followed up by a couple other senators.
This could be it.   

How's Trudeau?

 
This was a brilliant reply.  He didn't even say Trump's name.  Just 'former president'.  He ignored the insults and made a great reply that is somewhat dismissive of Trump and forward looking.

This could be the start of some momentum to weaken Trump's position in the party if it is followed up by a couple other senators.
Or proof that Trump remains the bullying mob boss of the Republican party if they don't show some support.

 
BR brings up a good point.  Are we supposed to be disappointed more from the GOP aren't giving Trump more attention and rebutting all his rants?   

Is it acceptance through silence or are they doing their job and ignoring the guy like we wish more would?
I’m sure it’s both, depending on the congressman or senator.  But considering the guy is the party right now, and the heavy favorite to be the nominee, it can’t all be the latter.

 
I’m sure it’s both, depending on the congressman or senator.  But considering the guy is the party right now, and the heavy favorite to be the nominee, it can’t all be the latter.
What party? Not the GOP. You guys are talking about him and giving him free add space and free Rental properties in your head more than the GOP is.

It's almost as if – now stay with me here - you don't want him to go away.  I'm starting to think that YOU think your fascination with him increases your chances of being able to date him.

 
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At the moment Trump owns the Republican Party lock, stock and barrel IMO.


Direct Headline: Trump's ire grows as DeSantis' popularity with Republicans takes off

And for months, billionaire Republican donors who bankrolled Trump have opened their checkbooks to boost DeSantis in his bid for a second term as Florida's governor....Former Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross donated $50,000 to DeSantis' campaign in April... Home Depot co-founder Bernie Marcus, who contributed $250,000 in March. Interactive Brokers Group chairman Thomas Peterffy, whose last six-figure donation to the Trump Victory fund occurred in September 2017, also gave $250,000 to DeSantis in April....DeSantis has raised $56 million so far this year through a political committee, and in a sign of his growing national stature, almost half of his 2021 haul has come from outside Florida...Some Trump foes have picked up on the former President's jealousy and are using it to advance their own objectives. Next week, Palm Beach televisions, perhaps including those in Mar-a-Lago, will once again air a commercial by the Lincoln Project intended to remind Trump that DeSantis is the new GOP "it" guy....Rick Wilson, one of the ex-Republicans behind the Lincoln Project, is hoping to provoke a very specific reaction from Trump..."We want Trump to kill his own babies," Wilson said. "We believe if we narrow the field and it's only Trump in 2024, it's an easy choice for Americans to say 'no.'"

By Gabby Orr and Steve Contorno, CNN 2:23 PM ET, Fri November 19, 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/19/politics/trump-desantis-relationship/index.html

Direct Headline: Trump Campaign Could Run Out Of Money Before Election Day

“Go back to the Reagan campaign, George H. Bush against Dukakis, Clinton against George H. Bush, the Obama campaigns—the candidate that spent more money won,” said Bruce Newman, professor of marketing at DePaul University...“Politics is now being driven by marketing, as opposed to political party affiliation,” said Newman “In order to run a marketing campaign effectively, you need money. Without having the money to pay for the various activities to fall under the umbrella of marketing, it’s impossible to compete effectively.”

by Erik Sherman Oct 27, 2020,12:10am EDT

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zengernews/2020/10/27/trump-campaign-could-run-out-of-money-before-election-day/?sh=63d46914791d

Direct Headline: Trump has gotten nearly $3 billion in ‘free’ advertising

Trump, who became the presumptive Republican presidential nominee ...has received the equivalent of more than $2.8 billion in free ads through April. That’s based on media coverage and the equivalent advertising rates....MarketWatch earlier this week wrote that Trump has spent the least amount of money per vote and per delegate of any candidate in either party — just $4.62 per vote.

By Robert Schroeder  May 6, 2016 at 12:56 p.m. ET

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-has-gotten-nearly-3-billion-in-free-advertising-2016-05-06

*****

Nothing you say has any basis in practical political reality. You need money to win elections and Trump actually ran out of money in the 2020 cycle. Based on a shortfall that couldn't be overcome, the strategy was to save most of what was left for the last month. That was a financial compromise but it was a mistake. Kellyanne Conway wouldn't have played it that way. And Trump needed her badly towards the end. One in ten voters waited until near the end of the cycle to cast their votes. Trump should have spent all he had earlier and tried to secure more votes sooner.

I'm not a huge fan of Ronna McDaniel at RNC HQ, but she's not dumb. Trump in 2024 makes Arizona a push, even with the collapsing Southern Border. I believe Team Blue can hold onto Georgia and Michigan. DeSantis would have a better shot than Trump at taking Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Trump would struggle with suburban voters and DeSantis would have an easier time appealing to working class minorities and independents.

Here's what McDaniel will hold true and she would be right. Polling represents a snapshot in time. Trying to give predictive modeling three years from now and hope it unfolds that way is madness. The polling industry has proven it's cooked and has failed on many levels the last two cycles. No one knows how the pandemic will shape out, which will impact Gavin Newsom, the current best shot for the DNC right now. Trump is out of the spotlight, Biden is at his worst right now and lots of moderates, independents and undecideds haven't weighed in yet. Lots of Republicans, especially the moderates, don't talk to pollsters (Net effect of the cancel culture and threatening to put people on lists. Big Surprise)  Once Trump gets back but is limited into the national daily media cycle, that ill will towards him that was somewhat dormant will come storming back.  The polling numbers and turnout won't look so good then.

And Trump won't have the benefit of big money donors who abandoned him and will keep abandoning him for DeSantis and Nikki Haley and the activist complicit left leaning MSM will cut him off from all the "unpaid" media coverage he received before.

Trump carries the J6 baggage, COVID19 baggage, questions about his age timeline ( all the fears of geriatric Biden don't end with Biden, they start to edge in on Trump too), the risk of driving out the Never Trumper votes to storm the voting booths, will cause many Republicans to sit out the election, risks the suburban vote, won't have the same fundraising ( which wasn't enough last time), lost many of his key staffers that helped him win 2016, and will have active media suppression working against him to make sure he gets little to no practical coverage in the MSM and Big Social Media.

If Trump "owned" the Republican Party, many of the critical big money donors and special interests wouldn't have abandoned him for DeSantis and Haley. More importantly, Trump doesn't "own" the left leaning activist complicit MSM and Big Social Media, which can choke out his impact in the national daily media cycle.

Only low information voters and zealots see Republicans as some kind of monolithic hillbilly cult that blindly adheres to Trump. The makeup of the entire Party is actually very complex. Dehumanizing them is an easy but lazy dirty way to cheaply attack them.

So, go on, explain it. Explain how Trump has total control and "owns" the Republican Party. Give some actual cogent practical reasons based on real time functional political strategy to explain your position.

 
Only low information voters and zealots see Republicans as some kind of monolithic hillbilly cult that blindly adheres to Trump. The makeup of the entire Party is actually very complex. Dehumanizing them is an easy but lazy dirty way to cheaply attack them.


I too have not seen this blind loyalty in my real friends who voted for Trump.

Which is one reason this question was interesting to me. I totally understand from a strategic angle why Democrats would want to paint it this way. It's convenient to generalize every Republican voter as a MAGA Rally super fan.

So, go on, explain it. Explain how Trump has total control and "owns" the Republican Party. Give some actual cogent practical reasons based on real time functional political strategy to explain your position.


I also would like to see more detail on this.

 
I too have not seen this blind loyalty in my real friends who voted for Trump.

Which is one reason this question was interesting to me. I totally understand from a strategic angle why Democrats would want to paint it this way. It's convenient to generalize every Republican voter as a MAGA Rally super fan.

I also would like to see more detail on this.
The fact that he is the bookmakers odds on favorite to be the nominee is really all the proof I need.  YMMV.

 
BR brings up a good point.  Are we supposed to be disappointed more from the GOP aren't giving Trump more attention and rebutting all his rants?   

Is it acceptance through silence or are they doing their job and ignoring the guy like we wish more would?
I mean, they have time to rant and rave on their own conspiracy theories.  I don't know why we would expect them to be "too busy" to take 10 seconds and reject Don's nonsense.  It's probably the least time consuming thing they'll do in a day.  It's not like they are working on legislation of any meaningful sort  :shrug:  

 
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Mine definitely varies.

I was hoping for discussion on it. Gekko did a good job with that. Not dismissal. But I get it.  :shrug:  
I outlined my thoughts on it previously.  If we want to jump in to policy then it might make sense at more local locales.  Most (not all) votes in the House and Senate are along party lines.  And that’s not a Trump thing - we were heading or already there prior to Trump.  

 
Mine definitely varies.

I was hoping for discussion on it. Gekko did a good job with that. Not dismissal. But I get it.  :shrug:  
I feel like we keep supplying with actual data and examples and you repeatedly dismiss them and say that the claims of Trump owning the party are based on nothing more than feelings.

Liz Cheney is the top draft pick here.  She had the audacity to criticize Trump's actions on Jan 6 and admit that the election wasn't stolen.  Her reward was the GOP House membership took away her leadership position, replacing her with a "stolen election" sycophant.

Let's review the recent GOP primary debate for Minnesota governor.  All candidates were asked if the stolen election.  Not one was willing to state that Biden won the election legitimately.

Let's review Trump's recent, conditional endorsement of Alaska's GOP governor.  Trump made it clear that his endorsement was conditional on Dunleavy not supporting Lisa Murkowski, a sitting GOP senator who had the audacity to vote for conviction on the most recent impeachment.  Dunleavy, of course, accepted Trump's conditional endorsement.

Look at how McCarthy, McConnell, Cruz, et.al. were willing to call Trump out on Jan 6 and Jan 7, but have since reversed course and refuse to say anything negative about him and have refused to even acknowledge the statements they made immediately after the attack on the Capitol.

Trump has done nothing but attack Raffensberger, Georgia's GOP governor who refused to help him find 12,000 votes.  Look at the recent statement attacking Senator Rounds, yet virtually no GOP politicians were willing to support Rounds.

There's lots more if you're willing to look for it and acknowledge it.

 
I feel like we keep supplying with actual data and examples and you repeatedly dismiss them and say that the claims of Trump owning the party are based on nothing more than feelings.


:confused:   

I said I'd like to see continued discussion.  Which I would as I think the topic is interesting. :shrug:  

 
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Mine definitely varies.

I was hoping for discussion on it. Gekko did a good job with that. Not dismissal. But I get it.  :shrug:  
But haven't people outlined what they have meant by Trump controlling the party multiple times?

Does that make people who voted he controls the party "low information"?   Because responses like Rounds' and those supporting him...seem still to be few and far between.  Until they become the norm...where people either don't respond to Trump any longer or respond more in force to him...it seems he has control.  Look at January 6th...the early GOP line was about how bad this was and putting it at the feet of Trump.  How many have backed off of that?  Any pushback towards Trump almost always seems short lived with those in office or seeking office.  How quickly do they refuse to answer the question when asked if Trump actually lost in 2020?

I don't think people are claiming there is some blind loyalty among all conservatives at all.  Its not blind loyalty...its calculated because people like Cruz (as an example) need Trump to continue to hold on to power.

 
I too have not seen this blind loyalty in my real friends who voted for Trump.

Which is one reason this question was interesting to me. I totally understand from a strategic angle why Democrats would want to paint it this way. It's convenient to generalize every Republican voter as a MAGA Rally super fan. 
There's a disconnect here. You are talking about voters. People replying are talking about politicians. 

Talking about voters, I disagree with the premise. I have no idea what percentage of Republican voters are controlled by Trump and must yield to him. Pretty low, I would imagine. Most have no reason to fear him. 

Talking about Representatives and Senators, I think it's pretty high. Which are opposing him? Which are saying, gosh let's stop voting 70 year old men to President?  

 
:confused:   Where did I say that? 

I said I'd like to see continued discussion.  Which I would as I think the topic is interesting. :shrug:  
I don't know that you directly state it, but your postings certainly indicate your leanings.  For example:

I too have not seen this blind loyalty in my real friends who voted for Trump.

Which is one reason this question was interesting to me. I totally understand from a strategic angle why Democrats would want to paint it this way. It's convenient to generalize every Republican voter as a MAGA Rally super fan.
This isn't remotely the first time you've accused liberals of generalizing Republican voters as hardcore-MAGA types.

So, go on, explain it. Explain how Trump has total control and "owns" the Republican Party. Give some actual cogent practical reasons based on real time functional political strategy to explain your position.
I also would like to see more detail on this.
As noted, you've been provided with example after example, yet you never comment on or acknowledge the examples.  Instead, you ask for "more detail".  When one is provided with information, doesn't acknowledge it, then asks for the same information over again, it's reasonable for others to assume the person is dismissing the original information provided.

 
There's a disconnect here. You are talking about voters. People replying are talking about politicians. 

Talking about voters, I disagree with the premise. I have no idea what percentage of Republican voters are controlled by Trump and must yield to him. Pretty low, I would imagine. Most have no reason to fear him. 

Talking about Representatives and Senators, I think it's pretty high. Which are opposing him? Which are saying, gosh let's stop voting 70 year old men to President?  
I think this is a good distinction.  I'd also say if we changed the word from "control" to "heavy influence or even extreme influence" you'd get a lot more "yes" votes.  Control is too absolute of a term for me personally.

 
I was hoping for more discussion but maybe you're right and it's done. Thanks. 
Im not sure how much more needs to be said though Joe...and respectfully, a post claiming those that believe he has control must be low information or zealots is not a great way to generate discussion.  It was surprising to see you praise that post as such.

Done...possibly...the poll was a good idea.  Keeping it public also a good idea in such polling.  There just doesn't seem to be much of a counter to the numerous times people have backed down against Trump.  And when they haven't, they lose power.  Where is this push against him from those in the GOP?  Is it 100%?  No...but its enough to the point he is still the frontrunner..ke Rounds at this point.  I think a lot of people hope that changes (including posters here that would not be seen as far left or low information types or zealots or whatever)

 
As noted, you've been provided with example after example, yet you never comment on or acknowledge the examples.  Instead, you ask for "more detail".  When one is provided with information, doesn't acknowledge it, then asks for the same information over again, it's reasonable for others to assume the person is dismissing the original information provided.


We'll just have to disagree there. I for sure don't have time to acknowledge or comment on every example. I wish I did but that's not reality. I think continued discussion is a good thing. But thank you for your comments. Much appreciated. 

 
There's a disconnect here. You are talking about voters. People replying are talking about politicians. 

Talking about voters, I disagree with the premise. I have no idea what percentage of Republican voters are controlled by Trump and must yield to him. Pretty low, I would imagine. Most have no reason to fear him. 

Talking about Representatives and Senators, I think it's pretty high. Which are opposing him? Which are saying, gosh let's stop voting 70 year old men to President?  


Thanks. That's a good point. I think for what I was going for in the poll (and in talking to my friends) was getting a pulse for what voters think about politicians. So sort of combining the two. Good distinction though. 

 
How many GOPers won't challenge Trump in a 2024 primary?  Nikki Haley, Josh Hawley, Kristi Noem, Marco Rubio have said or suggested they wont challenge Trump.

The GOP has censured or attempted to censor over the past 12 months (this is the quick list):

  • Cindy McCain
  • Mitt Romney
  • Liz Cheney
  • Lisa Murkowski
  • Jeff Flake
  • Richard Burr
  • Bill Cassidy
Feels like Trump controls the party...

 
There's a disconnect here. You are talking about voters. People replying are talking about politicians. 

Talking about voters, I disagree with the premise. I have no idea what percentage of Republican voters are controlled by Trump and must yield to him. Pretty low, I would imagine. Most have no reason to fear him. 

Talking about Representatives and Senators, I think it's pretty high. Which are opposing him? Which are saying, gosh let's stop voting 70 year old men to President?  
Yes...definitely its about the party the leadership...GOP governors and Reps and Senators still need him it seems.

Voters...no, his base is definitely lower at this point.  

 
I have to say that the 2020 Presidential Platform should definitely be entered into evidence here. 

I don't think Gekko is correct about "low-information" voters thinking that Trump controls the Republican Party. In fact, it's high-information voters like Rich Conway who have noted that everyone opposed to Trump and his claims about the election have either been totally marginalized, forced to face the threat of a serious primary, or have lost their positions within the bicameral body that is supposed to be independent of the executive branch. 

It seems like only people that follow politics would know this. Those that show up every four years are not likely to have heard so much about it. 

Trump quite simply controls everything in the party. You can see it in the Party's refusal to impeach him even after the Capitol building was stormed. Trump is running in 2024 barring anything unforeseen. Book it. He's got the candidates afraid of running against him in 2024 and risking his ire, which will proceed from his quips to the base of followers he has. Republicans on this board can shriek to high heaven how independent they and the politicians they support are. That is just not true. Until he either recedes from the spotlight, dies, or is arrested, he's the kingmaker. 

I have a hard time believing more evidence is needed than already proffered. 

 
Thanks. That's a good point. I think for what I was going for in the poll (and in talking to my friends) was getting a pulse for what voters think about politicians. So sort of combining the two. Good distinction though. 


If we are talking about voters then I'd say parties have control versus politicians although I do think Trump is unique.  He'd never switch to being a D but he would still garner a lot of votes as an Independent.  But generally speaking, the control that maybe you are talking about is mostly at a party level.  I'm not sure that's how I took things but maybe that's the direction the thread went.

 
How many GOPers won't challenge Trump in a 2024 primary?  Nikki Haley, Josh Hawley, Kristi Noem, Marco Rubio have said or suggested they wont challenge Trump.

The GOP has censured or attempted to censor over the past 12 months (this is the quick list):

  • Cindy McCain
  • Mitt Romney
  • Liz Cheney
  • Lisa Murkowski
  • Jeff Flake

  • Richard

    Burr
  • Bill Cassidy
Feels like Trump controls the party...


And, once again, we have "feelings" over actual data and reality.  :doh:

Simply put, @GordonGekko has it right.  The only people Trump "controls" are you guys.  He's got free rent, free ad space and is the topic of every conversation for every Democrat.  Conservatives I know don't give Trump the time of day, much less make outlandish claims about "controlling" the GOP.

You know who needs Trump?  You guys do.  You literally have nothing else.  Not in your party, not in your conversations, not in policy and not in marketing.

So you guys keep making outlandish claims about Trump "controlling" the GOP.  The only place that is going to get you is an even bigger bloodbath come 2022 and 2024.

 
And, once again, we have "feelings" over actual data and reality.
There is nothing that would indicate mere "feelings" about what Nugget said, nor has Gekko laid out any actual data or contextual reality. 

In fact, the only people swept up in feelings and actual data are those reading Gekko's purple prose. There was no data proffered, simply three links that are a bit of a red herring. 

 
I have to say that the 2020 Presidential Platform should definitely be entered into evidence here. 

I don't think Gekko is correct about "low-information" voters thinking that Trump controls the Republican Party. In fact, it's high-information voters like Rich Conway who have noted that everyone opposed to Trump and his claims about the election have either been totally marginalized, forced to face the threat of a serious primary, or have lost their positions within the bicameral body that is supposed to be independent of the executive branch. 

It seems like only people that follow politics would know this. Those that show up every four years are not likely to have heard so much about it. 

Trump quite simply controls everything in the party. You can see it in the Party's refusal to impeach him even after the Capitol building was stormed. Trump is running in 2024 barring anything unforeseen. Book it. He's got the candidates afraid of running against him in 2024 and risking his ire, which will proceed from his quips to the base of followers he has. Republicans on this board can shriek to high heaven how independent they and the politicians they support are. That is just not true. Until he either recedes from the spotlight, dies, or is arrested, he's the kingmaker. 

I have a hard time believing more evidence is needed than already proffered. 


I disagree with you whole-heartedly.  The only "evidence" that has been offered has been nothing more than feelings, emotions and wishes.

SAYING Trump controls the party does not make it so.  You guys know that, right?

 

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