Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Really wish just one time China would say "You know..we are siding with the USA on this one"
Then Russia who say Whoaaa
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*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jayrod
- Start date
Really wish just one time China would say "You know..we are siding with the USA on this one"
Then Russia who say Whoaaa
That’s pretty funny, but North Korea had funnier lies, like Kim Jong Il shooting something like a 34 with 6 aces the first time he touched a golf club.[icon] said:Putin approaching North Korean levels of comedy with this propaganda:
Apparently Putin now claiming "we were just training", and the west has been "humiliated & destroyed" in historic fashion for thinking they were going to attack
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-crisis-moscow-says-western-propaganda-has-failed-without-a-single-shot-fired-12542524
Kim Jong Un is Impressed
Jayrod
Footballguy
[icon] said:Putin approaching North Korean levels of comedy with this propaganda:
Apparently Putin now claiming "we were just training", and the west has been "humiliated & destroyed" in historic fashion for thinking they were going to attack
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-crisis-moscow-says-western-propaganda-has-failed-without-a-single-shot-fired-12542524
Kim Jong Un is Impressed
Looking like maybe this was all a bunch of sabre rattling for Putin to gain some ground domestically and abroad. Hoping that's all it is and this drawback is legit and not just feigning before a strike.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I'm no expert and do not know how this will shake out, but with regards to Putin's motivations, I think it's safe to say that he's just trying to protect his massive kleptocracy operation. Threatening Ukraine rallies nationalistic-minded citizenry that distracts from his ongoing thievery (pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!), which would lead me to believe that he is bluffing; but on the other hand, he wants to drag down Ukraine by whatever means because a thriving neighbor will eventually come home to roost.
Putin is cancer, and I hope that we (and the rest of the world, China notwithstanding) can sanction him into oblivion.
Doug B
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
@BobbyLayne , I was trying to work these five out -- an opportunity for me to learn.
So, I got the three Baltic Republics -- Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. And Poland butts up against the Kaliningrad Oblast enclave. So that's four bordering NATO countries by land.
Which country is the fifth? Are you counting the sea border between the eastern tip of Siberia and Alaska (the Diomede Islands)? Or something else?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
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Mister CIA
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I don’t make the rules, I just parrot
them https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-nato-border-forces-map-where-are-they-positioned-a7562391.html?amp
I’ve seen twenty sources that say five. You should reach out to set the record straight bc their definition is flawed.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
that’s what they sayRomania?
you have a source that says something other than five LMK
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Wikipedia, second sentence. Please foward link along to your twenty sources.that’s what they say
you have a source that says something other than five LMK
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Seems strange to us bc really only the Baltic states touch the Russian border. IDK the media consistently says 5. But maybe it’s bc Russian, Ukrainian, and Belorussian people are all Slavic?
Honestly don’t know the answer.
Honestly don’t know the answer.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
@Doug B @Mister CIA
Along the 20,139-kilometer land frontier, Russia has boundaries with 14 countries: Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland (via the Kaliningrad Oblast), Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, the People's Republic of China and North Korea.
Bolded are the 5 NATO.
6% of Russia’s borders.
Along the 20,139-kilometer land frontier, Russia has boundaries with 14 countries: Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland (via the Kaliningrad Oblast), Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, the People's Republic of China and North Korea.
Bolded are the 5 NATO.
6% of Russia’s borders.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Whether its 3, 4 or 5....either way, the point stands that Russia is already bordered by several NATO nations and their demand that Ukraine not become one because they don't want NATO troops on their border is ridiculous on the surface.
From what I've read, the real issue with Ukraine is Crimea. According to international law, Russia is occupying that region illegal as it is still recognized as Ukrainian soil. If Ukraine becomes part of NATO, there will have to be something done about that and likely that means the NATO allies forcing Russia out of there. Most of this may very well be a warning that Russia is ready to go to war with everyone over Crimea, so Ukraine can't become a NATO ally. Not sure about the endgame unless Russia can convince Ukraine and the rest of the world to just let them have it.
From what I've read, the real issue with Ukraine is Crimea. According to international law, Russia is occupying that region illegal as it is still recognized as Ukrainian soil. If Ukraine becomes part of NATO, there will have to be something done about that and likely that means the NATO allies forcing Russia out of there. Most of this may very well be a warning that Russia is ready to go to war with everyone over Crimea, so Ukraine can't become a NATO ally. Not sure about the endgame unless Russia can convince Ukraine and the rest of the world to just let them have it.
Doug B
Footballguy
The article you linked doesn't say or show five. However, I did find an apparent answer on NATO's own website -- the fifth one must, indeed, be the United States according the map shown under the "Myth 4" section (note where the yellow borders are drawn). That's despite them seeming to specify five land borders.I don’t make the rules, I just parrot
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-nato-border-forces-map-where-are-they-positioned-a7562391.html?amp
I’ve seen twenty sources that say five. You should reach out to set the record straight bc their definition is flawed.
The two Diomede Islands are so close together -- one being Russia, the other the U.S. -- that maybe that just counts as a "land border" by some geopolitical ground rule
EDIT: Dang it -- the NATO map I just linked even shows the Norway border ... totally missed it
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Doug B
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
No, but he apparently pulled off a Space Jam-esque half court dunk despite being 3’2”.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
I'm starting to think it was the latter. Things are escalating. Russia kicked our #2 diplomat out of their country and then announced that we have ignored their security demands. Meanwhile Lukashenko (Belarusian President and Russia's closest ally, also bordering Ukraine) is mocking the Western world for being wrong about a Wednesday invasion and stating that they and Russia have essentially merged their armies into one force.
Still no actual invasion, but US intelligence is reporting that despite what Putin said, they are not actually removing any troops from the border and in fact may be increasing them.
Sleestak
Footballguy
Yep. And after Ukraine there's nothing left but NATO countries. The tanks are going to be muzzle-to-muzzle.
G
Guest
Guest
Sleestak said:
ура.....ура....ураJayrod said:
Rattle and Hum
Footballguy
I'm late to the game here. Just seem Russia doesn't have to worry about the financial backlash (sanctions) of the West with China's support so they can act aggressively:
Bond Between China and Russia Alarms U.S. and Europe Amid Ukraine Crisis
Russia, China agree 30-year gas deal via new pipeline, to settle in euros
...“China is our strategic cushion,” Sergey Karaganov, a Kremlin adviser, told Nikkei. “We know that in any difficult situation, we can lean on it for military, political and economic support.”...
etc.
G
Guest
Guest
Is Russia the aggressor?
Jayrod
Footballguy
Well crap. Russia is moving in.
They are "recognizing" the factions they planted as separate from Ukraine and are moving in to "assist" them with establishing control against the big bad Ukrainian government.
The ruse was established and justification manufactured so here we are and tanks have now rolled in (though unmarked). Not sure if the ultimate goal is to take Kiev or not, but the war on the ground has started.
They are "recognizing" the factions they planted as separate from Ukraine and are moving in to "assist" them with establishing control against the big bad Ukrainian government.
The ruse was established and justification manufactured so here we are and tanks have now rolled in (though unmarked). Not sure if the ultimate goal is to take Kiev or not, but the war on the ground has started.
culdeus
Footballguy
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
There is no analogy for this sort of annexation with a nuclear backdrop to it. It is not a repeat of anything heretofore seen.
It sounds like the pipeline between Germany and Russia will be a fulcrum of any proposed sanctions. Should Germany keep its pipeline with Russia turned on, a NATO country will be unwilling to exercise sanctions against Russia for taking part of Ukraine.
Should be interesting.
It sounds like the pipeline between Germany and Russia will be a fulcrum of any proposed sanctions. Should Germany keep its pipeline with Russia turned on, a NATO country will be unwilling to exercise sanctions against Russia for taking part of Ukraine.
Should be interesting.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Agree. Germany's actions will play a large role in how all this plays out. Turn off the pipeline and Russia's economy is toast.
Just one more reason to get off fossil fuel as fast as possible.
rockaction
Footballguy
One minute ago from the Guardian:
Philip Oltermann
Germany has stopped the certification process for the controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline in reaction to Russia’s recognition of the self-proclaimed republics in Luhansk and Donetsk in east Ukraine, chancellor Olaf Scholz has announced.
On Tuesday morning, Germany’s energy minister, Robert Habeck, instructed the withdrawal of a positive assessment required to authorise the pipeline between Russia and Germany.
“Without this certification Nord Stream 2 cannot go into operation,” Scholz said at a press conference in Berlin at midday.
The German leader described Putin’s recognition of the Russian-controlled territories as a “grave breach” of international law that broke with decades of agreements between Russia and the west. “The situation today is fundamentally different”.
Sleestak
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Chess match here. Russia aggressively moves into two regions where they've already been interfering (heavy Russian populations) ...NATO starts with some sanctions. What's the next move? Is this like Crimea with an uneasy, new balance within Ukraine?
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Go after the the ex-pat oligarchs. Freeze their money, take their yachts, kick their kids out of unversities. Maybe send ICE down to Miami and start deporting Russian citizens. I hear the weather is beautiful in Russia this time of year.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Germany dropped the biggest hammer they had this side of sending troops by locking up the gas pipeline deal Russia had with them. There was some belief that they wouldn't have the guts to do that with their own energy and economic problems looming. Good on the Germans for doing the right thing this go around.
Jayrod
Footballguy
So the US, the UK, EU, Canada, Japan & Australia have dropped sanctions on Russia. Read some stuff that the UK has a lot of Russian oligarch's assets and have more power in this regard than the US. However, a lot of Russian financial activity is done in US dollars.
Word prior to this week was that Putin was prepared for all of this and was leaning on China to insulate from the financial sanctions from the West. We'll see.
Meanwhile, Ukraine has instituted a draft for all reservists age 18-60.
Still no word on if Ukraine is going on the offensive into the disputed regions or not. They claimed they were better prepared technologically to fight this time than in 2014.
Word prior to this week was that Putin was prepared for all of this and was leaning on China to insulate from the financial sanctions from the West. We'll see.
Meanwhile, Ukraine has instituted a draft for all reservists age 18-60.
Still no word on if Ukraine is going on the offensive into the disputed regions or not. They claimed they were better prepared technologically to fight this time than in 2014.
seahawk 17
Footballguy
Now officially happening.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Dammit!!! This is so pointless and will be so devastating in so many ways.
It’s a pointless endeavor. Putin wants Ukrainian territory, and he will apparently do whatever it takes to get it.
gruecd
Footballguy
Watching this one closely. My wife was born and raised in Lublin, Poland (about 90 min from Ukraine’s western border), and her mom and several other friends and family members still live there. We have plane tickets to visit in May.
I don't think Putin would be dumb enough to #### with a NATO country, but you never know with this clown…
I don't think Putin would be dumb enough to #### with a NATO country, but you never know with this clown…
tri-man 47
Footballguy
One of our new professors that I work with was born in Russia but moved to Crimea when she was ten. She left in 2015 (after the Russian takeover) fearing for her safety. Her mother is still there. The professor offered a presentation just yesterday on the effect of the takeover on Crimea …not pretty due to a major economic downturn and loss of freedoms. One of my students from the fall term is Ukrainian and had hoped to visit family there last month. I feel so bad for her and others.
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