Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Twitter and Elon Musk


If you ran Twitter, what would you do?  

91 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

24 minutes ago, timschochet said:

If they really believe that (I haven’t heard it from them) then they’re whiners. 
Jon Voight is one of the biggest conservatives there is in Hollywood these days. Strong Trump supporter. He’s getting roles all the time. 

Blacklists exist for bigots, sexual abusers and the like. And it should. No Blacklist exists for conservatives. 

 

This is an extremely callous post.  Shame on you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, hagmania said:

Yes, it's all quite similar to my feelings regarding religious people that I know. I lived that life before and am so closely acquainted with it; it's startling to realize there's a secular version of fundamentalism, but here we are.

This comparison seems pretty far off to me, in part because of how different the power dynamics are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, hagmania said:

Yes, it's all quite similar to my feelings regarding religious people that I know. I lived that life before and am so closely acquainted with it; it's startling to realize there's a secular version of fundamentalism, but here we are.

But isn’t there a vital difference? Religious fundamentalists consistently want government to make illegal things they don’t like: ban abortion! Ban gay marriage! Ban trans people! Etc. The woke crowd wants to change peoples’ attitudes, and they want to be intolerant of bigotry, but they’re not asking government to ban anything. 
Religious fundamentalists are looking to keep things they don’t like away from society. Woke people are looking for acceptance. The dogmatic aspects of each are somewhat similar, but their goals are so radically opposed that I don’t think it’s very useful to compare them in any way other than dogmatic aspects. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

But isn’t there a vital difference? Religious fundamentalists consistently want government to make illegal things they don’t like: ban abortion! Ban gay marriage! Ban trans people! Etc. The woke crowd wants to change peoples’ attitudes, and they want to be intolerant of bigotry, but they’re not asking government to ban anything. 
Religious fundamentalists are looking to keep things they don’t like away from society. Woke people are looking for acceptance. The dogmatic aspects of each are somewhat similar, but their goals are so radically opposed that I don’t think it’s very useful to compare them in any way other than dogmatic aspects. 

Yes, both groups carry forward their mission on different axes, I'm not debating that. It just helps me understand the motivations a bit better.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The woke crowd wants to change peoples’ attitudes, and they want to be intolerant of bigotry, but they’re not asking government to ban anything. 
Religious fundamentalists are looking to keep things they don’t like away from society. Woke people are looking for acceptance. 

What differentiates woke people from traditional liberals is precisely that they are not simply looking for acceptance.  They very much want to remove non-believers from society.  That's what "de-platforming" is about.  It's why they like censorship, as opposed to argumentation.  It's exactly what they have in common with other fundies.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The woke crowd wants to change peoples’ attitudes, and they want to be intolerant of bigotry, but they’re not asking government to ban anything. 

Policing, laws around discrimination, rights, educational requirements, social spending, etc..  Are you saying "woke" is not looking to influence all of these within government to further their agenda?  They've limited themselves to social media and yelling on a college campus? 

Edited by djmich
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

What differentiates woke people from traditional liberals is precisely that they are not simply looking for acceptance.  They very much want to remove non-believers from society.  That's what "de-platforming" is about.  It's why they like censorship, as opposed to argumentation.  It's exactly what they have in common with other fundies.

First off not all woke people feel the same about this and I think you’re painting too broad a brush here. But even the ones you’re referring to don’t want to remove people, they want to remove attitudes. Not the same. But you’re correct that they prefer censorship (of a voluntary variety, not enforced by government, which is a very important distinction over argumentation. You believe this is fundamental to their thinking; I believe they are mostly young and passionate and they just KNOW they’re right; they will grow out of it. 

  • Thinking 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, djmich said:

Policing, laws around discrimination, rights, educational requirements, social spending, etc..  Are you saying "woke" is not looking to influence all of these within government to further their agenda?  They've limited themselves to social media and yelling on a college campus? 

Of course they’re trying to influence these but never in restrictive ways. In each case they want to widen, to make society more accepting, not less. Also their “agenda” is pretty vague. I have no objection to using woke as a term to describe those who generally seek more political correctness,  but let’s not pretend they have an organized agenda, list of specific demands with bullet points or anything like that. They don’t. Most of their actions are in the form of intuitive responses to whatever comes up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Of course they’re trying to influence these but never in restrictive ways. In each case they want to widen, to make society more accepting, not less. Also their “agenda” is pretty vague. I have no objection to using woke as a term to describe those who generally seek more political correctness,  but let’s not pretend they have an organized agenda, list of specific demands with bullet points or anything like that. They don’t. Most of their actions are in the form of intuitive responses to whatever comes up. 

I'm not sure why whether their goal is "restrictive" or not is relevant to validating the fact that they are trying to leverage government to meet their desired ends.  And often one persons "widen", is anothers "restriction".

You may believe reducing policing is widening acceptance of disadvantaged people, I believe its restricting my safety...as an example.  Anytime you are forcing someone to "accept" something you are restricting their ability to make an autonomous decision.

Edited by djmich
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, djmich said:

I'm not sure why whether their goal is "restrictive" or not is relevant to validating the fact that they are trying to leverage government to meet their desired ends.  And often one persons "widen", is anothers "restriction".

You may believe reducing policing is widening acceptance of disadvantaged people, I believe its restricting my safety...as an example.  Anytime you are forcing someone to "accept" something you are restricting their ability to make an autonomous decision.

Don’t get me wrong: reducing policing is a dumb headed idea and I am opposed to it as much as you are and for the same reasons. But I think it’s a stretch to claim that it restricts your freedoms. It makes you and I less safe probably, but that’s not the same thing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Don’t get me wrong: reducing policing is a dumb headed idea and I am opposed to it as much as you are and for the same reasons. But I think it’s a stretch to claim that it restricts your freedoms. It makes you and I less safe probably, but that’s not the same thing. 

Yah I'm not even arguing good or bad.  Or really semantics about restricts or widens.  Woke wants to change how the government regulates and administers our country, thats it.

Separately, if I'm afraid to go out at night or go to a concert in town...that sure feels like my ability to be free is restricted.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, timschochet said:

The Hollywood Blacklist involved the FBI, at the direction of J Edgar Hoover, approaching studios and warning them who Communists were suspected of being, and pressuring executives to fire them and refuse to hire them. 
 

It does not exist today. 

I

 

1 hour ago, timschochet said:

If they really believe that (I haven’t heard it from them) then they’re whiners. 
Jon Voight is one of the biggest conservatives there is in Hollywood these days. Strong Trump supporter. He’s getting roles all the time. 

Blacklists exist for bigots, sexual abusers and the like. And it should. No Blacklist exists for conservatives. 

My friend works on a very high profile show, I’m pretty sure he knows.  The blacklist isn’t just for recognized people either.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Don’t get me wrong: reducing policing is a dumb headed idea and I am opposed to it as much as you are and for the same reasons. But I think it’s a stretch to claim that it restricts your freedoms. It makes you and I less safe probably, but that’s not the same thing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why would someone want to go out if they come back to their car broken into?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, FairWarning said:

Im talking about if someone made a joke about wheat germ, no one would be offended 

 

Have  you met some of the posters in here?  :lol:  

I highly doubt such an incredibly offense joke with wheat germ would make it past 1 reply without being reported.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Don’t get me wrong: reducing policing is a dumb headed idea and I am opposed to it as much as you are and for the same reasons. But I think it’s a stretch to claim that it restricts your freedoms. It makes you and I less safe probably, but that’s not the same thing. 

The parks, for picnics and child play that my tax dollars paid for, are full of homeless drug tents.  They not only took my freedom away, they are occupying it.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hagmania said:

Can I just say thank you for this post. I have had many thoughts regarding the rigid intolerance present in woke/cancel culture, but using the word "fundamentalism" finally allowed me to evolve on this topic.

Drawing out the parallel, one observes that wokeness has defined a number of sins, and I posit that the reason past transgressions can't be moved on from is that there's no supernatural grace figure; Woke Christ didn't come to die for everyone's woke sins.

I was going to post something similar, and agree.   Once you look at at through that fundamental lens, it motivations and actions make more sense.  

Bolded 100%.   If you can't move on from that part or have the ability to separate past actions and beliefs from current ones, then you will always have that spectre of original sin/past transgressions hanging over society.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

 

Have  you met some of the posters in here?  :lol:  

I highly doubt such an incredibly offense joke with wheat germ would make it past 1 reply without being reported.

I almost responded to this with the laughing emoji and then remembered how deeply offensive that is.  My apologies for my almost-faux-pas.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I almost responded to this with the laughing emoji and then remembered how deeply offensive that is.  My apologies for my almost-faux-pas.

Same here

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, PhillipPhoto said:

The parks, for picnics and child play that my tax dollars paid for, are full of homeless drug tents.  They not only took my freedom away, they are occupying it.

You are denying the rights of shooting up in a tent, just so your kid can play frisbee golf?  

Talking about privilege. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, McBokonon said:

I think viewing trans people as merely “playing a role playing game” is pretty divorced from the reality of what they’re going though.

eta: It’s possible I misunderstood and you’re not actually somebody who thinks they just decide to be trans so try can use different bathrooms and dominate track.

 

It's role playing if you're asking others to partake in a fallacy.  The fact of the matter is no matter how many surgeries or chemical cocktails one takes, they CANNOT change their sex.  Nature and Biology have ruled that a firm and unalterable "NO".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, timschochet said:

The folks opposed to the gay rights movement all behaved like they were being strong armed. They consistently argued that the right to gay marriage was an attack on traditional marriage, am interference with their rights. I think you may have forgotten the rhetoric involved. 
The trans movement is no different. You may think it is but it’s not. All trans people want is to be left alone and treated with dignity and the same as everyone else

 

Lia Thomas say, "Huh?".

And that's the whole point of these conversations - the trans movement is CERTAINLY NOT about "being left alone and treated with dignity".  

It's almost like you're on another planet.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

 

Lia Thomas say, "Huh?".

And that's the whole point of these conversations - the trans movement is CERTAINLY NOT about "being left alone and treated with dignity".  

It's almost like you're on another planet.

 

Well the real one anyhow. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, timschochet said:

Sorry to sound so frustrated but these constant comparisons to terrible events in history annoy me perhaps more than anything I can think of. And it’s from both sides. AOC compared Trump’s detention camps to Auschwitz. Black athletes compare not being paid to lynching. In this forum @BladeRunner compared silly college students to murderous Russian Bolsheviks, and now Ivan is comparing the woke movement to the Red Scare. It’s all crap. None of this compares. These analogies are all BS. 

 

If the shoe fits, Tim, you gotta' wear it.   And it fits oh so snugly.

There have been numerous publications online - and a lot of Russians - that make the same references to what happened back in the early 20th century Russia to what's happening now with the woke mob.  The dots are all there to connect.

There is ZERO doubt in my mind that if the woke ever got the power they crave (it's got electrolytes!), you better believe they would become the New Bolsheviks in a heartbeat.  Look how crazy they are now WITHOUT any real power.  Youtube is your friend if you want to see how crazy they are.

Edited by BladeRunner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, FairWarning said:

You are denying the rights of shooting up in a tent, just so your kid can play frisbee golf?  

Talking about privilege. 

Disc golf is the preferred nomenclature please.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/23/2022 at 12:17 PM, timschochet said:

Nope. Conservatives are going to lose. 
 

I don’t write that to be trite, or trollish. I simply base it on history- our society is constantly changing, becoming more and more progressive, more accepting: and with every change that has occurred over the last 100 years or so, whether it’s race, sex, sexual orientation, gender, etc., conservatives begin by fighting it, angrily insisting they will never accept it, and then ultimately they surrender and move on to the next issue they will fight for a time. They always lose in the end. Always. 

Actually, when the leftists realize their utopia is an unsustainable #### hole, it'll be too late, and everyone loses.

Edited by Manster
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, if you're a fan of satire accounts and humor in general (and god know I realize from first hand experience many of you here are not) you may want to give Claire Foster PHD a follow. She's no Titania McGrath but she has her moments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/24/2022 at 8:46 PM, Manster said:

Actually, when the leftists realize their utopia is an unsustainable #### hole, it'll be too late, and everyone loses.

 

Having equality is an unsustainable #### hole? I feel sorry for anyone who actually believes that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/24/2022 at 10:46 PM, Manster said:

Actually, when the leftists realize their utopia is an unsustainable #### hole, it'll be too late, and everyone loses.

 

The USSR, China, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Cambodia took that bet and lost.  The list goes on and on.

How many more people have to die before people realize these leftist ideas are not good at all?  They're literally deadly.

Edited by BladeRunner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, squistion said:

 

Having equality is an unsustainable #### hole? I feel sorry for anyone who actually believes that.

It's the methods.

It's not the average peace loving, meadow muffin that concerns me.  I know plenty of well intentioned people who are pretty far left.  What concerns me is the overhaul of our Constitution.  The use of emotion to get people to believe that there is some fundamental problem with how our country is structured......that systemic racism is so ingrained in us that we need to completely re-work our education system.  So much white guilt felt by people who shouldn't feel it.  All the while, our younger generations are becoming brainwashed into believing they are entitled to #### they should have to work for.  They will give up freedoms for security......and they are offended by everything.   Free speech is under constant attack at leftist institutions.

Now all that said, crony capitalism is a problem.  I'm all for supporting small business and changing some of the practices that allow huge corporations and banks to swallow everything up........socialism is not the way.  More, and bigger government regulation, and taxes, are not the way.  The fed needs to have a lot of fat trimmed.

Edited by Manster
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Elon Musk giving serious thought to building a new social media platform.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/elon-musk-giving-serious-thought-build-new-social-media-platform-2022-03-27/

 

It immediately would be more successful that Truth Social, GETTR or Parler, just because Musk understands the tech part of it. No doubt he would invest money and resources more to the backend and make sure it's stable and user friendly. That would go a long way.

I would be really interested to see what he considers to be allowed as his "free speech" compared to Twitter. I still think it's only a small percentage of Twitter users that have issues with what they can and can not post on the site. Most of the most popular accounts on Truth Social are still also posting on Twitter (even lazily just posting pics of their Twitter posts) and getting more sticky interaction on Twitter. At that point, you aren't protesting the rules on Twitter, you just are trying to appease those that think you are.

All that to say. who would move from Twitter (or the alt-right sites) to MuskTalk and who stays, blissfully happy with where they are?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bogart said:

I would be really interested to see what he considers to be allowed as his "free speech" compared to Twitter.

History suggests this new platform will immediately have to implement some not-so-free-speech rules or turn into a hellish pit.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

History suggests this new platform will immediately have to implement some not-so-free-speech rules or turn into a hellish pit.

 

History also suggests he will remove users that are critical of his companies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Elon Musk giving serious thought to building a new social media platform.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/elon-musk-giving-serious-thought-build-new-social-media-platform-2022-03-27/

Yeah....THIS will work just fine.  In the article itself I read this and it made me laughed out loud. There's no reason to believe this platform would be any different than the rest. 

prioritize free speech, and where propaganda was minimal.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Yeah....THIS will work just fine.  In the article itself I read this and it made me laughed out loud. There's no reason to believe this platform would be any different than the rest. 

prioritize free speech, and where propaganda was minimal.

 

That's precisely where he may be able to outcompete Twitter. There's obvious tension between prioritizing free speech and minimizing propaganda. It's a hard needle to thread, and Twitter makes errors in both directions.

Better AI could help. That's where I imagine Musk would try to gain an advantage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

 

That's precisely where he may be able to outcompete Twitter. There's obvious tension between prioritizing free speech and minimizing propaganda. It's a hard needle to thread, and Twitter makes errors in both directions.

Better AI could help. That's where I imagine Musk would try to gain an advantage.

 

Absolutely. He's got the two things you need to succeed in this venture. Money and Intellectual talent. 

Throw in the fact he strikes me as someone who'd love to show the world he can do ANOTHER thing better than everyone else and I can't think of someone more likely to pull this off than Musk.

I'd say he's not a great guy to bet against. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/24/2022 at 10:05 AM, Juxtatarot said:


I know you aren’t equating things but Twitter placing the Babylon Bee in read-only mode until they agree to remove a Tweet is such a far cry away from burning witches. My worry is that the negative attacks against woke-ism become worse than the negative ramifications of woke-ism.

 

Uh, the whole Salem Witch Trial thing in The Crucible was a metaphor for the Red Scare. To take The Crucible literally and say the Babylon Bee is not akin to burning witches is odd when the play was so obviously a metaphor also. What happened by being blacklisted is also incomparable to burning witches. 

But both the Red Scare and the Babylon Bee are colloquial "witch hunts," a term which has come to mean moral panics fueled by a fundamentalism that precludes rational or proper thought. 

Edited by rockaction
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

 

That's precisely where he may be able to outcompete Twitter. There's obvious tension between prioritizing free speech and minimizing propaganda. It's a hard needle to thread, and Twitter makes errors in both directions.

Better AI could help. That's where I imagine Musk would try to gain an advantage.

Anything in this space that is subjective like this has the same destiny. Its unavoidable. This isnt the same thing as saying "no political talk here"  or "no sports talk" etc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Joe Bryant changed the title to Twitter and Elon Musk

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
  • Create New...