Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Any word if he will get time with the 1st Stringers ???
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Tatum Bell to Debut on Friday (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Macdaddy_2004
- Start date
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Tatum will make some noise this FridayHe is clearly Shanny's flavour of the year ... now he has to just run like it
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Well Shanny didn't waste a second round pick to let Bell rot on the benchHe knows Bell is his guy ... he just wants Tatum to prove it to everyone which will happen this FridayBell crosses the stripe in GL situation which will vault him over Q in Shanny's eyes
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I think you are way off MacDaddy - Shanny really likes what Griffin has done both last year in relief of Portis and to win the starting RB job this off season (which he CLEARLY has done).Shannie is not willing to hand the starting RB job to Bell THIS year unless Bell shows remarkable imrpovement - the best you can hope for in the next couple of weeks is that Bell is impressive enough to win the backup job away from Hearst and Anderson.If THAT happens, you may see him during the regular season if Q struggles, but otherwise it seems to clearly be Q as starting back on day one unless Q does something to LOSE the job at this point.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Considering Denver's injury history at RB, and tendency to allow backs to filter through the system - I don't know what you would be debating here anyway - in Dynasty terms, KJones is CLEARLY the better pick than Q Griffin.
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Q Griffin consistently produces run as so forth1,2,0,-1,14,3,4,1,,-2,15You think Shanny is gonna deal with that all year long. Its way too inconsistent. Plus Q can't get the short yardage Shanny needs on 3 and 1.
grouse
Footballguy
Actually, you're not far off the mark Macdaddy re: Griffin handing over the ball to Bell. "...There was a nice moment in Broncos practice yesterday where Griffin had taken some reps and made some long runs in 11-on-11 drills and subsequently needed a breather. He trotted over to the sidelines with ball in hand knowing that Bell was itching to get in. Griffin mumbled some verbal encouragement Bell's way before flipping the ball gently towards Bell as he was jogging towards the huddle. Bell snatched the ball from Griffin but the ball slid through Bell's fingers like a wet banana, he tried to double-clutch it but the ball slid down off of his hip, then his right knee, off of his shoelaces and skittered along the ground before it hit the huddle and lay to rest by big lineman Matt Lepsis's foot who stood there with hands on hips smirking and shaking his head."
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Link ???
Have we not learn anything from 2 years ago when Gary was dubbed the starter and Portis was the one to ride the pine all year.Things change quickly in Shanny's mind. Does anyone know the specific reason Shanny made the switch from Gary to Portis that year ???
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Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I disagree that what you point to concerns Shannie enough to make a change. First, there's no guarantee rookie Bell will be any better than Griffin. Second, I think it would take a LOT for Griffin to lose his starting gig right now. Third, the problems seemed ot be with the OL, not Q's running, but I'd have to watch it again.This friday, my guess is that Griffin = 1st Q+ as primary back with Bell seeing limited action in the first half, with maybe 2 carries behind the first string crew.Shannie will expect him (Bell) to be very impressive against the second string crew during the 3rd and 4th Qs before Bell gets extensive preseason looks with the first string O. That's my impression, anyway.
The reason Portis will be replaced by Rock Cartwright is that he is so inconsistant.Game 11-10-WAS26 (14:55) C.Portis right end to WAS 26 for no gain (D.Morgan). 3-11-WAS1 (9:49) C.Portis left end to WAS 10 for 9 yards (D.Foster, W.Witherspoon). 1-10-WAS21 (4:48) C.Portis left end to WAS 23 for 2 yards (D.Morgan; W.Witherspoon). 1-10-WAS28 (3:58) C.Portis right guard to WAS 29 for 1 yard (K.Jenkins). 1-10-CAR31 
42) C.Portis right guard to CAR 29 for 2 yards (M.Rucker). Game 21-10-MIA40 (9:18) C.Portis right tackle to MIA 40 for no gain (D.Bowens). 1-10-MIA40 (9:18) C.Portis right tackle to MIA 40 for no gain (D.Bowens). 2-10-MIA40 (8:46) C.Portis left end to MIA 18 for 22 yards (A.Edwards). 1-10-MIA18 (8:04) C.Portis right guard to MIA 14 for 4 yards (D.Bowens). 2-6-MIA14 (7:25) C.Portis right end to MIA 5 for 9 yards (A.Edwards; R.Howard). 1-5-MIA5 (6:44) C.Portis up the middle to MIA 5 for no gain (M.Greenwood; J.Seau). 2-2-MIA2 (5:35) C.Portis left guard to MIA 1 for 1 yard (L.Chester). 3-1-MIA1 (4:56) C.Portis up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. 0,9,2,1,2,0,0,22,4,9,5,1,td
42) C.Portis right guard to CAR 29 for 2 yards (M.Rucker). Game 21-10-MIA40 (9:18) C.Portis right tackle to MIA 40 for no gain (D.Bowens). 1-10-MIA40 (9:18) C.Portis right tackle to MIA 40 for no gain (D.Bowens). 2-10-MIA40 (8:46) C.Portis left end to MIA 18 for 22 yards (A.Edwards). 1-10-MIA18 (8:04) C.Portis right guard to MIA 14 for 4 yards (D.Bowens). 2-6-MIA14 (7:25) C.Portis right end to MIA 5 for 9 yards (A.Edwards; R.Howard). 1-5-MIA5 (6:44) C.Portis up the middle to MIA 5 for no gain (M.Greenwood; J.Seau). 2-2-MIA2 (5:35) C.Portis left guard to MIA 1 for 1 yard (L.Chester). 3-1-MIA1 (4:56) C.Portis up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. 0,9,2,1,2,0,0,22,4,9,5,1,tdDudeWheresMyRB
Footballguy
This logic-- if you want to call it that-- assumes that coaches never change their assessment of the talent on the team coming out of draft day. If that were the case, then why didn't Shanahan annoit Bell the started going into minicamps? Or training camp? Heck, why evaluate talent at all during the preseason? Mike chose player X in round Y. Therefore, he's slotted to play here. Ridiculous...The fact of the matter is Griffin has played well, perhaps better than the coach's original assessment.... perhaps not. Griffin has done one thing *much* better than anyone could have anticipated given his size, and that is pick up blocks. I have no idea how Bell will do in this regard, but I can guarantee it's the one thing that will keep a rookie RB off the field on every team in the league.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I think the point (as poor as it was) was made in relation to Portis taking over as starter by game 5 two years ago from Gary. But even then, Portis had been TREMENDOUSLY impressive in TC and preseason, along with two games in relief of Gary, before taking over.It is not the 2nd round selection status that will earn Bell the job over Griffin - it will be Bell OUTPLAYING Griffin (and Hearst, and Anderson), and that alone, that will earn Bell the field.
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
hahaEven more reason to boot Griff to the benchOne missed block by Griff when a 6'1 220lbs linebacker comes barelling for Plummer and Shanny will flip his Lid.I can see it now ... WHAMO .... Who's Griffin gonna stop at his size ??
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
???What is your point?If it is the RB must be a blocker, then you should be pimping Hearst, not Bell - Hearst is the best blocking RB in the game of football.Also, blocking is the single most difficult thing for young RBs to pick up - especially RBs who have been hurt, unable to practice or play, and have not seen the speed of NFL defenders first hand - - Anderson or Hearst would start over Bell if blocking were the issue.Bell will be on the sideline as soon as Griffin by BLOWING a blocking assignment, which is something rookie RBs do with regularity.
babydemon90
Footballguy
I disagree.... coaches are NOT pressured to get second round picks in as starters their first year. Not in the slightest bit. If anything, teams FREQUENTLY like to let second round (and even first round) picks ride the bench their first year...and even their second year.Yea, Portis got the starting job his first year. So did Boldin. There are a lot that end up starting...but just as many provide needed depth, or are being groomed to start 2-3 years down the line. I'd wager 60% of the 2nd rounders from last year are not yet starting.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Again, what is this BASED on? Nothing.Griffin is the same size as other NFL backs and he has NFL experience - Bell has none.I was pimping Bell as the man several weeks after the draft, but it is blindness to facts in front of your face to think Griffin is not the clear front-runner for the job right now.
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Thats not the point.The point is for only the 2nd Time since Shanny has been running the show he used a 2nd Rounder on a RB all the other times he waited till later on. Obviously he has concerns about his RB situation or he would not have used a pick so highOh yeah just to let you know that the other 2nd ROunder is the guy starting in Washington now.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
HAD concerns - as of April.Since then, Griffin proved he can handle the strater role and he outpalyed the two other options.Bell's 2nd round status will not earn him time on the field in 2004, though he may be expected to compete for the start in 2005.
DudeWheresMyRB
Footballguy
You can't compare a 2nd round pick this year to a 2nd round pick of last year, or 3 years ago, or 5 years ago... it depends on the draft class. This was the shallowest RB class in years (and the deepest at WR). The fact that Bell was a second round pick *only* means that relative to *this* class, Shanahan believed it offered the most value and that there were no 5th round steals to be had, otherwise its reasonable to guess Shannahan would have found him.
gman8343
What would Lemmy do?
I hope you're right. I drafted Q in one of my money leagues, but it was grudgingly.At 195 pounds which starting backs is Q on par with? I know he's heavier than Dunn who's about 180, but I can't think of anyone under 200, though I'm sure there are a few at 205 or so.
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Have we seen Bell on the field yet ??? No.Therfore we cannot say who Shanny will start untill we see what Bell can doGriffin is the frontrunner but I think there is a good chance Bell takes this job by mid-seasonHe just suits the sytem better
babydemon90
Footballguy
Flawwed argument. All these "other times" you are referring to, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Terrell Davis was supposed to be the CLEAR starter coming in. Injury forced the issue..... When it was apparent Terrell was done, they drafted Portis. This is the first year there hasn't been an existing set starter, so he used a 2nd rounder for depth, and to compete for a starting gig. He is not pressured to start him though.Oh yeah, and Davis was a 6th rounder too....but I think 1995 the Broncos did not HAVE a pick before the 4th round, and at that point were a heavy passing team with Elway. RB's were not their priority.
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Tatum Bell is indeed a Portis clone from Height to Weight down to the Number he choseBell has talent ... probably more than Griffin judging by College stats and the talent of opponent they faced in College.Everyone fails to realize that in each pre-season game Griffin has been fresh - what happens when the legs start to burn and he can't tote the rock 20-25 times a game.While he has impressed so far this pre-season take it with a grain of salt. This gig is still up for grabs into week 3 of the regular season.Thats when we will see the real seperation of the two.
Vivian Darkbloom
Footballguy
Blocking as a HB has little if anything to do with size. We're not talking about FB's, who need to fill the hole aggressively then do their best to annihilate rabid 250 lb MLB's. Successful blocking HB's need to sell the play (if it's play-action), know their assignments (or read the threats, depending on scheme), and use intelligent angles to get themselves between threats to the QB and the QB himself. VERY few HB's are out there pancaking blitzers. The good blockers are the guys who excel at getting in the way, and being at least a minor pain in the ### to get around once they get there.A 195 lb'er who knows how to get in the way can be a real asset to a team's passing game. A 220 lb'er who misses assignments is as useless as teats on a bull moose.Anyway, don't discount a RB as a blocker because of his size, is the point. Whether the respective DEN RB's fit the descriptions above, I have no idea.
DudeWheresMyRB
Footballguy
Some things get proven right and others wrong over time... I don't have a problem with this statement since it's an educated guess, just like most all of our fantasy-related decisions. If the Broncos struggle (quite possible), Bell may also break into the lineup that way.But barring injury or a disastrous preseason game this week, Griffin has done enough to keep Bell on the bench for now...
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Jeez, strange how Griffin magically appeared on the roster and wasnt specifically drafted by the Broncos. You guys are grasping at straws. All these theories fly in the face of the simple fact that Griffin is the starter and everything that has been said reflects that they are very happy with him. Bell is reportedly out of favor to begin with, totally unproven, and was a fumbler in college that now has a broken finger. How does that all add up to Griffin taking a seat because he's too short? If thats the case why isnt Hearst or Anderson starting?
babydemon90
Footballguy
If I saw a 23-lb LB on the field, so would I.
Griffin had much better stats in college than Bell did, and the two played in the same conference so strength-of-opponent is a wash. Now how that translates to the NFL remains to be seen.From denverbroncos.com:Griffin rushed for 3,756 yards (5.4 avg) on 702 carries and 44 touchdowns during his career. He also caught 146 passes for 1,217 yards (8.3 avg) and six touchdowns.Bell rushed 634 times for 3,409 yards (5.4) and 34 touchdowns in 41 career games (29 starts). He added 258 yards and a pair of touchdowns on 36 receptions (7.2).
Griffin's stats as a three-year starter at Oklahoma: 702 rushes for 3,756 yards (5.4 avg) and 44 touchdowns; 146 receptions for 1217 yards (8.3 avg) and six touchdowns.Bell's stats as a three-year starter at Oklahoma State: 634 rushes for 3,409 yards (5.4 avg) and 34 touchdowns; 36 receptions for 258 yards and a pair of touchdowns.
Edit: I mean, what davearm said.
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KTM
Braaaaaaaaaap
How does he suit the system better if we haven't seen Bell on the field yet? I don't think many are arguing, or guaranteeing that Griffin will be the starter all 16 games. Bottom line is that it's Griffin's job to lose at this point...Whether it be Friday night, or sometime in October...
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
except unlike barry sanders he doesn't have unreal speed, and unlike barry sanders he has never scored a TD in the NFL.Then like Barry Sanders he's gone for a 50yd TD
jurb26
Footballguy
Take out the TD part and you'd be right!Then like Barry Sanders he's gone for a 50yd TD
Either way, I think Griffin has done enough to claim the #1 spot clearly. Will he hold on to it, who knows. My guess is that it will take an injury to have him fully replaced though (much like every other Den RB to be replaced). I can see him being spelled though. His lack of TD production is of concern right now in my book. With Hearst, Anderson, and Bell chomping at the bit to get in. I can easily see a red zone, goal line change.Q is the starter because he has done well in the preseasonWe don't know how Bell will fare because he's never played in the NFL 
HELLO!?! Isn't this the Denver Bronco running game we are talking about? How many times do we sit around and say the O-line in Denver makes running backs look good?And some of us think Tatum Bell is going to get into the game and look bad proving Griffin should be the starter because he has done well? No, Tatum Bell is going to go off! Just like Griffin before him and Portis before him and Anderson before him and Gary before him and Davis before him.And some of us think Griffin is entrenched as starter because he has looked good? Let me ask you... which Denver RB in the past 10 years HASN"T looked good? That isn't proof that is par for the course.For crying out loud... Anderson just put 100+ on the board and he is the worst RB on the team. What are all you Griffin fans going to say when Tatum (who is part of the same system as everyone else) puts up huge numbers (just like everyone else)?The question isn't who can average 5 ypc and put 1,000 yards and 10 TDs on the board. Denver has proven every ###### with a pair of shoes can do that.The question is... who can carry the rock 300 times in a season and be as effective on carry 250 as they were on carry 15? Who can move the pile on 3 and 1 not once, not twice, not three times but every game, every week all season long. Who can pass protect not 3 times in a game but 15 times? Who can block a 250 lb LB 100 times this year and not either get run over or miss the assignment altogether?My bet is that Griffin is NOT that person. I believe 197 pounds is a flat out lie. IMHO, he is at least 10 pounds lighter than that. 5'7" 197... no way.Of course that is my opinion and Griffin has already proven he is more capable than a lot of us originally thought. When I see explosion after 4 straight games of 25 carries from the "Little One" then I'll be sold. That is the measure of this competition.
HELLO!?! Isn't this the Denver Bronco running game we are talking about? How many times do we sit around and say the O-line in Denver makes running backs look good?And some of us think Tatum Bell is going to get into the game and look bad proving Griffin should be the starter because he has done well? No, Tatum Bell is going to go off! Just like Griffin before him and Portis before him and Anderson before him and Gary before him and Davis before him.And some of us think Griffin is entrenched as starter because he has looked good? Let me ask you... which Denver RB in the past 10 years HASN"T looked good? That isn't proof that is par for the course.For crying out loud... Anderson just put 100+ on the board and he is the worst RB on the team. What are all you Griffin fans going to say when Tatum (who is part of the same system as everyone else) puts up huge numbers (just like everyone else)?The question isn't who can average 5 ypc and put 1,000 yards and 10 TDs on the board. Denver has proven every ###### with a pair of shoes can do that.The question is... who can carry the rock 300 times in a season and be as effective on carry 250 as they were on carry 15? Who can move the pile on 3 and 1 not once, not twice, not three times but every game, every week all season long. Who can pass protect not 3 times in a game but 15 times? Who can block a 250 lb LB 100 times this year and not either get run over or miss the assignment altogether?My bet is that Griffin is NOT that person. I believe 197 pounds is a flat out lie. IMHO, he is at least 10 pounds lighter than that. 5'7" 197... no way.Of course that is my opinion and Griffin has already proven he is more capable than a lot of us originally thought. When I see explosion after 4 straight games of 25 carries from the "Little One" then I'll be sold. That is the measure of this competition.
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jurb26
Footballguy
How many Den RBs have been replaced as the starter for the sole reason of being out performed? We are talking with no injury catalyist. When you realize the answer is 0, then you will realize why Griffin will not be easily replaced. It could happen, yes. I for one just don't see it as very likely with out injury.Q is the starter because he has done well in the preseasonWe don't know how Bell will fare because he's never played in the NFL
babydemon90
Footballguy
I thought I saw somewhere Griffin had more rushes, and far more catches in college then Bell.....so why do you use this as a knock on Griffin?
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