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2009 N.L. Rookie of the Year (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter MaddHatter
- Start date
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Would help if you gave some stats:
Randy Wells: 8-4, 102.1 IP, 2.73 ERA, 65 K, 23 BB
JA Happ: 8-2, 115.0 IP, 2.74 ERA, 86 K, 37 BB
Tom Hanson: 6-2, 67.0 IP, 3.22 ERA, 46 K, 29 BB
Garrett Jones: .299, 11 HR, 18 RBI, 1.031 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .248, 11 HR, 35 RBI, .725 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .292, 7HR, 32 RBI, .842 OPS
To me it looks like a 3 horse race between Wells, Happ and Jones with Hanson making a late push.
Randy Wells: 8-4, 102.1 IP, 2.73 ERA, 65 K, 23 BB
JA Happ: 8-2, 115.0 IP, 2.74 ERA, 86 K, 37 BB
Tom Hanson: 6-2, 67.0 IP, 3.22 ERA, 46 K, 29 BB
Garrett Jones: .299, 11 HR, 18 RBI, 1.031 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .248, 11 HR, 35 RBI, .725 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .292, 7HR, 32 RBI, .842 OPS
To me it looks like a 3 horse race between Wells, Happ and Jones with Hanson making a late push.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Happ
boubucarow
Footballguy
How do you justify Happ over Wells with any certainty?
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
STAT UPDATE:Randy Wells: 8-5, 107.2 IP, 3.01 ERA, 68 K, 25 BBJA Happ: 8-2, 121.0 IP, 2.75 ERA, 89 K, 41 BBTom Hanson: 7-2, 73.2 IP, 3.05 ERA, 55 K, 29 BBGarrett Jones: .296, 12 HR, 20 RBI, 1.000 OPSColby Rasmus: .248, 11 HR, 38 RBI, .718 OPSAndrew McCutchen: .289, 7HR, 32 RBI, .839 OPSHanson starting to make his move. Happ IMO still in the lead. Wells starting to drop.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
STAT UPDATE:
Randy Wells: 9-5, 113.2 IP, 3.01 ERA, 71 K, 27 BB
JA Happ: 9-2, 128.2 IP, 2.66 ERA, 92 K, 47 BB
Tom Hanson: 7-2, 73.2 IP, 3.05 ERA, 55 K, 29 BB
Garrett Jones: .292, 12 HR, 20 RBI, .962 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .259, 12 HR, 40 RBI, .742 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .285, 7HR, 34 RBI, .825 OPS
Randy Wells: 9-5, 113.2 IP, 3.01 ERA, 71 K, 27 BB
JA Happ: 9-2, 128.2 IP, 2.66 ERA, 92 K, 47 BB
Tom Hanson: 7-2, 73.2 IP, 3.05 ERA, 55 K, 29 BB
Garrett Jones: .292, 12 HR, 20 RBI, .962 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .259, 12 HR, 40 RBI, .742 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .285, 7HR, 34 RBI, .825 OPS
eagles2007
Footballguy
you're missing one of the top 3 candidates in your poll: dexter fowler. he's arguably the best of the position players.
i think it comes down to the 3 pitchers: wells, happ and hanson. if i was drafting, it would be a no-brainer - i'd take hanson. i am not sure who i would vote for this year.
if you put a gun to my head i'd probably go:
fowler
happ/wells/hanson
mccutcheon
i would go fowler as a cop out to not being able to decide between the 3 pitchers. though i think he is worthy.
i think it comes down to the 3 pitchers: wells, happ and hanson. if i was drafting, it would be a no-brainer - i'd take hanson. i am not sure who i would vote for this year.
if you put a gun to my head i'd probably go:
fowler
happ/wells/hanson
mccutcheon
i would go fowler as a cop out to not being able to decide between the 3 pitchers. though i think he is worthy.
eagles2007
Footballguy
actually i'm putting wells second now. he has been much more important to the cubs than the other two pitchers have been to their teams. with all the injuries, wells has filled in nicely as no. 2/3 starter for the cubs. happ is at best 4 and so is hanson.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Here are Fowlers numbers
exter Fowler: .270, 4 HR, 30 RBI, .778 OPSNot sure I'm buying him as ROY or best position player right now. I think Jones, Rasmus and McCutchen all have better numbers.
eagles2007
Footballguy
i disagree. he's way better than rasmus. jones had 2 great weeks. mccutcheon got a late start ... if mccutchen was up on april 1 i might agree with you.by the way, you left off the most important state for Fowler: 26 SBs. He also has 55 walks, has scored 55 runs and has an OBP of .365.Here are Fowlers numbers
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Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Ok. I'll play.
Fowler
107 games
.270 BA
.365 OBP
.413 SLB
099 OPS+
55 runs (.514/gm)
4 HR
30 RBI
26 SB (.242/gm)
55 BB
100 Ks
.986 Fld%
McCutchen
64 games
.284 BA
.349 OBP
.471 SLB
119 OPS+
43 runs (.672/gm)
7 HR
35 RBI
12 SB (.187/gm)
26 BB
48 Ks
.988 Fld%
Jones
40 games
.297 BA
.358 OBP
.627 SLB
159 OPS+
24 runs (.600/gm)
13 HR
22 RBI
06 SB (.150/gm)
15 BB
35 Ks
1.000 Fld%
So basically, Fowler gets on base and steals at a slightly higher rate than McCutchen/Jones. But, in every other statistical category, they are better. Rasmus is the only player where the numbers are arguable.
Fowler
107 games
.270 BA
.365 OBP
.413 SLB
099 OPS+
55 runs (.514/gm)
4 HR
30 RBI
26 SB (.242/gm)
55 BB
100 Ks
.986 Fld%
McCutchen
64 games
.284 BA
.349 OBP
.471 SLB
119 OPS+
43 runs (.672/gm)
7 HR
35 RBI
12 SB (.187/gm)
26 BB
48 Ks
.988 Fld%
Jones
40 games
.297 BA
.358 OBP
.627 SLB
159 OPS+
24 runs (.600/gm)
13 HR
22 RBI
06 SB (.150/gm)
15 BB
35 Ks
1.000 Fld%
So basically, Fowler gets on base and steals at a slightly higher rate than McCutchen/Jones. But, in every other statistical category, they are better. Rasmus is the only player where the numbers are arguable.
eagles2007
Footballguy
i am much more willing to vote for a guy who has been up all year. jones has played 40 games ... i just don't think he's a viable candidate. if you wanna argue mccutch-fowler, fine. i'd take mccutch if i was picking of the two, b ut the fact that he's on a last-place team and the rockies are in the wild card chase (in good part due to fowler being put into a regular role by jim tracy) seals the deal for me.
BoulderBob
Footballguy
Happ, Wells, and Fowler should share it. All three have been important parts to decent teams.
Even though there are some deserving arms in the AL, Gordon Beckham walks away with it relatively easily in the AL
Even though there are some deserving arms in the AL, Gordon Beckham walks away with it relatively easily in the AL
MaddHatter
Footballguy
Nolan Reimold was in contention until about 3 weeks ago or longer I would say. He was playing good ball for the O's.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
STAT UPDATE:
Randy Wells: 9-6, 120.1 IP, 2.84 ERA, 74 K, 29 BB
JA Happ: 10-2, 135.2 IP, 2.59 ERA, 93 K, 49 BB
Tom Hanson: 9-2, 86.2 IP, 3.12 ERA, 69 K, 32 BB
Garrett Jones: .306, 14 HR, 28 RBI, 1.004 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .254, 13 HR, 41 RBI, .739 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .283, 7 HR, 36 RBI, .817 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .277, 4 HR, 33 RBI, .811 OPS
Randy Wells: 9-6, 120.1 IP, 2.84 ERA, 74 K, 29 BB
JA Happ: 10-2, 135.2 IP, 2.59 ERA, 93 K, 49 BB
Tom Hanson: 9-2, 86.2 IP, 3.12 ERA, 69 K, 32 BB
Garrett Jones: .306, 14 HR, 28 RBI, 1.004 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .254, 13 HR, 41 RBI, .739 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .283, 7 HR, 36 RBI, .817 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .277, 4 HR, 33 RBI, .811 OPS
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
STAT UPDATE:
Randy Wells: 9-7, 126.2 IP, 3.06 ERA, 78 K, 33 BB
JA Happ: 10-3, 143.2 IP, 2.63 ERA, 97 K, 51 BB
Tom Hanson: 9-3, 88.2 IP, 3.15 ERA, 73 K, 32 BB
Garrett Jones: .289, 15 HR, 30 RBI, .946 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .252, 14 HR, 44 RBI, .731 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .293, 10 HR, 43 RBI, .862 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .270, 4 HR, 33 RBI, .792 OPS
Randy Wells: 9-7, 126.2 IP, 3.06 ERA, 78 K, 33 BB
JA Happ: 10-3, 143.2 IP, 2.63 ERA, 97 K, 51 BB
Tom Hanson: 9-3, 88.2 IP, 3.15 ERA, 73 K, 32 BB
Garrett Jones: .289, 15 HR, 30 RBI, .946 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .252, 14 HR, 44 RBI, .731 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .293, 10 HR, 43 RBI, .862 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .270, 4 HR, 33 RBI, .792 OPS
harryhood
Footballguy
2 horse race in my opinion
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I'll add him to the numbers.His stats: .297, 9 HR, 38 RBI, .817 OPSsandy said:
oso diablo
Footballguy
odd stats to post for a leadoff hitter. better> 377 OBP, 59 runs. since ASB, hitting 367/420/571
p.s. think Happ wins it, although he's been quite "lucky" with the BABIP
A
awesomeness
Guest
Garrett Jones is more worthy of the award than McCutchen. The only 2 stats McCutchen betters Jones in is RBIs, games played.
The award has to go to Happ or Wells.
The award has to go to Happ or Wells.
eagles2007
Footballguy
couldn't disagree more. mc'clutch'en is way better than jones.and unless he ####s the bed, the award now belongs to happ.
A
awesomeness
Guest
Everyone knows McCuthchen is better than Jones. The thing is Jones is having a better statistical season than McCutchen to this point.
eagles2007
Footballguy
really? mccutch has a better BA and more RBIS - out of the leadoff spot. significantly more RBIs. i know chicks dig the long ball, but there' s more to the game than solo HRs.
A
awesomeness
Guest
You might want to take another look at those stats. Garret Jones is batting .294, McCutchen is batting .283. Jones has more HR, a better OBP, a better SLG%, and a better OPS. The only reasons McCutchen has more RBIs is dumb luck and the fact that he's played 25 more games.
eagles2007
Footballguy
yeah, i was looking at BA through 8.31. mccutcheon is still better. i hope any votes jones gets don't take away from mccutchen.
A
awesomeness
Guest
dparker713
Footballguy
McCutchen leads in SB and WAR. Plus he's actually a defensive asset in CF. Whereas Jones plays poor defense in LF, RF and 1B.
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Snotbubbles
Footballguy
STAT UPDATE:
Randy Wells: 10-8, 139.1 IP, 2.84 ERA, 84 K, 35 BB
JA Happ: 10-4, 149.2 IP, 2.77 ERA, 104 K, 52 BB
Tom Hanson: 9-3, 93.2 IP, 3.07 ERA, 78 K, 36 BB
Garrett Jones: .303, 18 HR, 36 RBI, .977 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .254, 14 HR, 45 RBI, .726 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .279, 11 HR, 45 RBI, .832 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .270, 4 HR, 33 RBI, .792 OPS
Garrett Jones starting to pull away from the position players. JA Happ had two rough starts and then was scratched from his last start.
Randy Wells: 10-8, 139.1 IP, 2.84 ERA, 84 K, 35 BB
JA Happ: 10-4, 149.2 IP, 2.77 ERA, 104 K, 52 BB
Tom Hanson: 9-3, 93.2 IP, 3.07 ERA, 78 K, 36 BB
Garrett Jones: .303, 18 HR, 36 RBI, .977 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .254, 14 HR, 45 RBI, .726 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .279, 11 HR, 45 RBI, .832 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .270, 4 HR, 33 RBI, .792 OPS
Garrett Jones starting to pull away from the position players. JA Happ had two rough starts and then was scratched from his last start.
oso diablo
Footballguy
Jones is having a fine rookie season, but i don't see anyone pulling away from the pack here. Coghlan actually has the most Total Bases and the most Runs Scored among rookies.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
But Coghlan has played 44 more games than Jones. Jones OPS+ is 157, Coghlan is 118. Jones is averaging 2.377 total bases per game, Coghlan 1.695. Coghlan does lead Jones in runs per game .63 to .59. Quite frankly, it's not even close IMO.
Oh Yes!
Footballguy
man, wells would have 13 or 14 wins if he would have gotten ANY run support when he was 1st called up.
editor47
Footballguy
yes, jones has more power than coghlan. if you're going to vote for jones, please be sure to vote every year from the guy who hits the most HRs among all rookies. there's more to baseball than that.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Runs per game for Coghlan: .65Runs per game for Jones: .59Hits per game for Coghlan: 1.19Hits per game for Jones: 1.18HRs per game for Coghlan: .08HRs per game for Jones: .311RBIs per game for Coghlan: .377RBIs per game for Jones: .623SBs per game for Coghlan: .07SBs per game for Jones: .15OBP for Coghlan: .384OBP for Jones: .366SLG for Coghlan: .338SLG for Jone: .607OPS+ for Coghlan: 119OPS+ for Jones: 157Fielding % for Coghlan: .976Fielding % for Jones: 1.000Range factor for Coghlan: 1.73Range factor for Jones: 1.94Looks like Coghlan gets on base slightly more and scores slightly more runs. But the difference in those numbers are negligible. In every other statistical category, Jones is better. And most of those differences are by a large margin. Please tell me, what exactly does Coghlan do better?
oso diablo
Footballguy
i think games played is an important component for ROY.
oso diablo
Footballguy
Coghlan's SLG is 445, not 338. Your 338 number must have come from Jones' slugging % in his 2007 cup of coffee with the Twins.Since the ASB, Coghlan's OPS has been 954. Jones' OPS since the ASB has been 945.Look, all i'm saying is that it's not a clear-cut thing here. Jones has been an excellent rookie power hitter, who had a super-hot start and has kept hitting well. Coghlan has been an excellent rookie leadoff hitter, who started slow but has gotten better and better as the season progresses. It's anything but a runaway.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
STAT UPDATE:
Randy Wells: 10-8, 143.0 IP, 2.96 ERA, 84 K, 38 BB
JA Happ: 10-4, 149.2 IP, 2.77 ERA, 104 K, 52 BB
Tom Hanson: 10-3, 108.2 IP, 2.65 ERA, 93 K, 39 BB
Garrett Jones: .297, 19 HR, 39 RBI, .949 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .260, 15 HR, 50 RBI, .740 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .269, 11 HR, 47 RBI, .799 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .268, 4 HR, 33 RBI, .781 OPS
Chris Coghlan: .304, 9 HR, 42 RBI, .821 OPS
Randy Wells: 10-8, 143.0 IP, 2.96 ERA, 84 K, 38 BB
JA Happ: 10-4, 149.2 IP, 2.77 ERA, 104 K, 52 BB
Tom Hanson: 10-3, 108.2 IP, 2.65 ERA, 93 K, 39 BB
Garrett Jones: .297, 19 HR, 39 RBI, .949 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .260, 15 HR, 50 RBI, .740 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .269, 11 HR, 47 RBI, .799 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .268, 4 HR, 33 RBI, .781 OPS
Chris Coghlan: .304, 9 HR, 42 RBI, .821 OPS
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
STAT UPDATE:
Randy Wells: 11-9, 153.0 IP, 3.00 ERA, 93 K, 43 BB
JA Happ: 11-4, 158.1 IP, 2.79 ERA, 112 K, 54 BB
Tom Hanson: 11-4, 120.2 IP, 2.98 ERA, 107 K, 44 BB
Garrett Jones: .305, 20 HR, 42 RBI, .969 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .256, 16 HR, 51 RBI, .726 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .277, 12 HR, 54 RBI, .814 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .267, 4 HR, 33 RBI, .773 OPS
Chris Coghlan: .312, 9 HR, 44 RBI, .832 OPS
Randy Wells: 11-9, 153.0 IP, 3.00 ERA, 93 K, 43 BB
JA Happ: 11-4, 158.1 IP, 2.79 ERA, 112 K, 54 BB
Tom Hanson: 11-4, 120.2 IP, 2.98 ERA, 107 K, 44 BB
Garrett Jones: .305, 20 HR, 42 RBI, .969 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .256, 16 HR, 51 RBI, .726 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .277, 12 HR, 54 RBI, .814 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .267, 4 HR, 33 RBI, .773 OPS
Chris Coghlan: .312, 9 HR, 44 RBI, .832 OPS
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
FINAL NUMBERS:
Randy Wells: 12-10, 165.1 IP, 3.05 ERA, 104 K, 46 BB
JA Happ: 12-4, 166.0 IP, 2.93 ERA, 119 K, 56 BB
Tom Hanson: 11-4, 127.2 IP, 2.89 ERA, 116 K, 46 BB
Garrett Jones: .293, 21 HR, 44 RBI, .938 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .251, 16 HR, 52 RBI, .714 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .286, 12 HR, 54 RBI, .836 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .266, 4 HR, 34 RBI, .770 OPS
Chris Coghlan: .321, 9 HR, 47 RBI, .850 OPS
Randy Wells: 12-10, 165.1 IP, 3.05 ERA, 104 K, 46 BB
JA Happ: 12-4, 166.0 IP, 2.93 ERA, 119 K, 56 BB
Tom Hanson: 11-4, 127.2 IP, 2.89 ERA, 116 K, 46 BB
Garrett Jones: .293, 21 HR, 44 RBI, .938 OPS
Colby Rasmus: .251, 16 HR, 52 RBI, .714 OPS
Andrew McCutchen: .286, 12 HR, 54 RBI, .836 OPS
Dexter Fowler: .266, 4 HR, 34 RBI, .770 OPS
Chris Coghlan: .321, 9 HR, 47 RBI, .850 OPS
A
awesomeness
Guest
Between Happ, Jones, and Coghlan imo.
My vote is for Jones, survey says Happ.
My vote is for Jones, survey says Happ.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
I got to give it to Happ. For a decent amount of time...Happ was the best starter on the World Champs. With the Lidge and Hamels meltdowns....Happ kept them in the lead.
