Sand
Footballguy
I expect all the rates for services - A/C, plumbing, electrical, etc. to go up substantially to cover this. My electrical guy's policy doubled.
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Obamacare: Obama just straight up lied to you, in your face (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter tommyboy
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Sand
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't understand why people are focused on this issue (the Congressional staffers). Republicans seem to care about it, in the same way that Democrats are always going on about the large bonuses that corporate executives receive. I've never gotten the focus on either issue. There's not enough staffers, or corporate executives, to matter. I really don't care if every congressional staffer is getting free health care and a large salary, and I don't care if every corporate executive is getting a 50 million bonus. None of that affects the public.
It doesn't matter if ACA is hypocritcal. It doesn't matter if the President lied- not at this point. The only that matters is if Obamacare is good or bad for the public- as a whole.
It doesn't matter if ACA is hypocritcal. It doesn't matter if the President lied- not at this point. The only that matters is if Obamacare is good or bad for the public- as a whole.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Democrats cared about it a lot - they signed on to it and pimped it as part of the ACA bona fides.
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Mario Kart
Footballguy
Good for the goose, good for the gander.
Is it true that Wal Mart has better insurance than what the ACA provides and is cheaper? If true, wow.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
See, this is what I mean. People are way too focused on "justice", when what they should be focused on is how this stuff affects the public. These staffers are way too insignificant to matter.
As to your question about Wal Mart, I have no idea.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Generally a fan, but if you don't understand the difference between a congressinal staffer getting a few hundred dollar health care stipend and a CEO getting a 50M bonus, your far less intelligent than I've always considered you to be.
Comparing the two is just ignorant.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
You're missing the point. Of course I understand the difference between the two.
I'm making the comparison because in both cases, people are worrying about stuff that won't change their lives in the least, because it's happening to so few people that there are no large term effects. When it comes to Obamacare, we should be concentrating on how it's affecting the middle class. When it comes to corporate earnings, we should be concentrating on how many millions of people are hired or laid off. We don't need to worry about "fair play" and "justice".
Sarnoff
Footballguy
Most laws passed by Congress do not apply to Congress. They actually enjoy a kind of transactional immunity. They are detached from how their laws actually affect the average person. The best way for The People to be protected is for them to make sure Congress understands how it's actions affect them. By forcing staffers to live within the rules that Congress creates, members of Congress will be face-to-face with the repercussions daily.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/01/07/surprise-walmart-health-plan-is-cheaper-offers-more-coverage-than-obamacare/
http://www.newsmax.com/US/walmart-healthcare-insurance-plans/2014/01/07/id/545728
http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2014/01/07/sorry-liberals-walmart-health-plans-beat-obamacare/
Google is awesome.
timschochet
Footballguy
So what?
This idea, which smacks of a ridiculous populism IMO, that we should have congressmen who should be "regular guys" who feels what we do, will have no positive effects whatsoever IMO. Let them live like kings. I don't care, so long as they're effective and smart. Personally, I like it when my politicians are elitist, because elitism usually equals ability.
The most effective politician in my lifetime in my state was a black Democrat named Willie Brown. He served various offices, and he got more good things accomplished for California than anyone I can think of. He also dressed in thousand dollar suits, dined with celebrities, and lived far beyond his official salary means. But I don't care; I wish we had a hundred Willie Browns.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
W(hat) T(he) H(oly) F(lying) F(#%$)????????
I surely hope you are posting in a druken stupor because this is by far the most asisine thing I have ever seen posted here. GTFO
Sarnoff
Footballguy
Sarnoff
Footballguy
This is why Obamacare is so great, it's exposed the liberal elite fantasy for exactly how terrible it would be in reality. Let the most left-leaning intellectual snobs govern exactly how they want, run things their way, and watch it blow up in their face.
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timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
So far it is not well run. That cannot be denied.
Yet your assumption that the reason that it is not well run is because it's an "elite liberal fantasy" doesn't work. It doesn't work because conservatives made the exact same predictions about Medicare, which is extremely well run. The competency or lack of competency of a government program has very little to do with the political mindset of the people behind the program, but this is something that I truly doubt you'll ever understand.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
It's about how the law was "sold" vs how it was implemented.
That's what they're getting at, piling on example after example of total and complete deception on a myriad of points by the Democrats.
That's all.
To be fair - between this and some of the Bush years where Republicans had free reign it's kind of shown that want to avoid giving any of these goons the power to do about anything. It's better in the short term when they have to make deals between each other to screw us over. Long term it's probably better we just take our lumps and let the inevitable collapse happen sooner rather than later. So I guess if Tim's right and we're stuck with Obamacare, I'll at least root for the positives it does bring. The quicker everything comes down, the better chance we'll have at actually having some resources left to do something off of the bounce.
timschochet
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ok, pointing out yet another way that Demos sold this thing falsely to garner or encourage passage is totally legitimate.
jonessed
Footballguy
And it also runs up the price of health care for everyone as a whole, which makes some people actually believe Obamacare is a good idea.
tommyboy
Footballguy
I called you an idiot and a moron, and after reading your latest deep thoughts you've confirmed it forever Tim.
There is absolutely nothing you bring to the table. Youve exposed yourself as the intellectual lightweight ideologue fit for duty at the freshman debate club. My condolences on your epic meltdown
There is absolutely nothing you bring to the table. Youve exposed yourself as the intellectual lightweight ideologue fit for duty at the freshman debate club. My condolences on your epic meltdown
timschochet
Footballguy
Freshman debate team can be tough
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Not today there isn't. Today no one can "know", only suspect what the ACA would ultimately mean. No amount of being proven correct in the future will change that there is nothing to "know" at this point. We might never know as before it can have much impact at all before it is tinkered with significantly here or there for better and for worst before sufficient data is generated to judge the original idea. As of today most American's have impacted in such insignificant ways that the ACA has been nothing but noise. However there are those like Ballstein (sic?) and Grand??? among othere that have shown that real people are both helped and hurt which is the norm for major policy change. While the Exchange's problems have inconvenienced the BnBs of the nation and embarrassed the administration it is not really an indicator of the success or failure of ObamaCare itself, though it starting to have a "perception is reality" impact.
drunken slob
Footballguy
You just had your Brian Griffin, "Real Time with Bill Maher" moment.
Wish it, Want It, Do It
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
This thread turned into the "fun guy in high school." It used to be fun but I've gone away for a while and now I come back and he's still working at Burger King trying to get me to smoke some weed behind the dumpster.
What happened to you, Obamacare thread?
What happened to you, Obamacare thread?
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Hang 10
Footballguy
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
Yeah, it's so much worse than the old system, where those workers would just go to the Emergency Room, and the middle class wouldn't have to pay for it. Oh wait.............
Sand
Footballguy
Then why do you continue to beat that drum?
"People"? The Democratic party is obsessed with "justice". We have a president who is on record stating that social justice is a higher goal than economic expansion - he flat out stated that hurting the economy is fine in the name of equality. Did you hear Di Blasio's inauguration speech? Obsessed. Congress? Listen to Schumer or Pelosi. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Let them practice what they preach.
Frankly I'd like to see the staffers of the idiots who voted this thing in to be subject to it. Those that voted against should be exempt. That's justice.
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
jamny
Footballguy
Why do people think that these workers don't get billed later on? A friend of mine had to go to the emergency room with pneumonia, no insurance, and will be paying it off for years.
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Stinger Ray
Footballguy
quickhands
Footballguy
no wonder u don't get the tea party.
youre a aristocrat apologist. Good to know. Free the elite from the mundane concerns of proletariat.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Yeah, I think if you ask any Libertarian who the most effective politician they ever saw was, they'd say "Willie Brown." Natch.
quickhands
Footballguy
We used to have a politician in detroit who fit that description. Many people who worked with him described him as effective.
Some even called him "king" kwame. By your standard he should still be mayor of detroit.
timschochet
Footballguy
Of course they won't but they should, because he did a lot to lower regulations in order to make California more business friendly, and also heavily promoted free trade, especially with the Pacific Rim. These used to be important libertarian concerns. I wish our more recent Dems were more like him, especially with regard to the regulations.
Stinger Ray
Footballguy
We need more corrupt politicians.
http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Willie-Brown-Inc-How-S-F-s-mayor-built-a-city-2926278.php
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
If you weren't in such a hurry to make your awful point, you would have seen that he said "increase in healthcare premiums"-- meaning they already had healthcare, and now it is more expensive. But lucky for them they will at least break even, unlike many others to whom Obama promised savings. Also the middle class people who hire these contractors will pay more for their services so even if they were lucky enough to get "affordable" health care they will still pay for it in other ways.
timschochet
Footballguy
I really don't want to turn this into a discussion of the merits of "power" politicians, though. My main point is that they're too small a group to worry about one way or another. I say we keep the discussion focused on how Obamacare affects the middle class. BFS just made the argument that it's impossible to evaluate this- its too early. I think that's a fair point, though it's certainly reasonable to make predictions. What will our healthcare system look like ten years from now?
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You must have missed the part where he said to cover the increase in premiums. Meaning they already have health insurance. Although if we cover more people we will see less ER usage. Oh wait...
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2014/01/02/science.1246183
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