[Dynasty] 2014 Draft Prospects (1 Viewer)

EBF said:

Starting to go back and look at the class as I try to build some kind of final pre-combine list. Some early quick hitters:

RUNNING BACKS

- I'm starting to think Jeremy Hill might be a more sudden, more athletic version of Carlos Hyde. He put together some impressive runs this season and packs a wallop with deceptive top speed.

- Hyde is okay, but he might lack the special qualities to be a really good pro. I'm curious to see what kind of explosiveness he shows at the combine.

- Seastrunk has a somewhat unique running style, but on his good days he's impressive. I get kind of a Gio Bernard/DeAngelo Williams vibe from him. He might not be a slam dunk top 3-4 rookie pick, but he looks fairly good and I think I'm likely to be cautiously optimistic regarding his outlook.

- Andre Williams is a fun player to watch. There are some obvious warts. He will never be a prolific pass catcher and he'll probably be a durability risk, but at times he's a pretty dominant runner with some freaky power/speed. I seem to be a little higher on him than a lot of the Internet draft pundits and I think he's likely to shine at the combine. Will he be a great FF option? The lack of receiving skills could be an issue. I think he's more of a deep league start 2RB special.

- I tentatively think Sankey, Freeman, and Mason are similar in their overall outlook. I don't see obvious star talent in any of those guys, but I think they're all talented enough to be serviceable if they go to an open situation with good opportunity. Mason and Sankey are efficient runners. Freeman might not be quite as smooth. A little more straight-line. He might have the most burst of the group though and he's a weapon as a receiver, which is huge.

WIDE RECEIVER

- I'm probably going to have Watkins as the #1 WR, though maybe with minor reservations. He's kind of a unique proposition. A straight-line speedster with more range and possession game than most players of that ilk. He isn't really built like the prototypical #1 NFL WR (the Fitz/VJax/Demaryius type) and doesn't move like them. With his speed and other traits, it might not matter much. All else being equal, I would rather have a big/agile receiver than the speed type.

- On that note, I think it's going to be important to nail your evaluations of Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin. Those are two guys who, if they hit, might have the highest ceiling of anyone in this WR class. I don't think sheer speed is going to be a question mark with them. In fact, Evans might be downright fast. The question will be whether they move around well enough before/after the catch to be effective at the next level. It's something that I'll be looking at closely in their game cuts and also when they take the field for the positional drills at the combine. It is hard to hide in that environment.

- Lee should be good, but he's probably more of a 14-15 ppg WR than a potential 18-20 ppg type of target.

- Somewhat intrigued by Moncrief, Beckham, Cooks, and Adams. My take on Beckham and Moncrief hasn't changed much in the past 12 months. Cooks is really really tiny, but also explosive. Not a prototypical elite NFL WR at all. Maybe the right team can find a role for him.

- Thinking Landry, Huff, and Matthews will be relegated to supporting roles in the NFL. Not quite sure on Cody Latimer. Martavis Bryant is a likely bust IMO.

Click to expand...

EBF said:

Starting to go back and look at the class as I try to build some kind of final pre-combine list. Some early quick hitters:

RUNNING BACKS

- I'm starting to think Jeremy Hill might be a more sudden, more athletic version of Carlos Hyde. He put together some impressive runs this season and packs a wallop with deceptive top speed.

- Hyde is okay, but he might lack the special qualities to be a really good pro. I'm curious to see what kind of explosiveness he shows at the combine.

- Seastrunk has a somewhat unique running style, but on his good days he's impressive. I get kind of a Gio Bernard/DeAngelo Williams vibe from him. He might not be a slam dunk top 3-4 rookie pick, but he looks fairly good and I think I'm likely to be cautiously optimistic regarding his outlook.

- Andre Williams is a fun player to watch. There are some obvious warts. He will never be a prolific pass catcher and he'll probably be a durability risk, but at times he's a pretty dominant runner with some freaky power/speed. I seem to be a little higher on him than a lot of the Internet draft pundits and I think he's likely to shine at the combine. Will he be a great FF option? The lack of receiving skills could be an issue. I think he's more of a deep league start 2RB special.

- I tentatively think Sankey, Freeman, and Mason are similar in their overall outlook. I don't see obvious star talent in any of those guys, but I think they're all talented enough to be serviceable if they go to an open situation with good opportunity. Mason and Sankey are efficient runners. Freeman might not be quite as smooth. A little more straight-line. He might have the most burst of the group though and he's a weapon as a receiver, which is huge.

WIDE RECEIVER

- I'm probably going to have Watkins as the #1 WR, though maybe with minor reservations. He's kind of a unique proposition. A straight-line speedster with more range and possession game than most players of that ilk. He isn't really built like the prototypical #1 NFL WR (the Fitz/VJax/Demaryius type) and doesn't move like them. With his speed and other traits, it might not matter much. All else being equal, I would rather have a big/agile receiver than the speed type.

- On that note, I think it's going to be important to nail your evaluations of Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin. Those are two guys who, if they hit, might have the highest ceiling of anyone in this WR class. I don't think sheer speed is going to be a question mark with them. In fact, Evans might be downright fast. The question will be whether they move around well enough before/after the catch to be effective at the next level. It's something that I'll be looking at closely in their game cuts and also when they take the field for the positional drills at the combine. It is hard to hide in that environment.

- Lee should be good, but he's probably more of a 14-15 ppg WR than a potential 18-20 ppg type of target.

- Somewhat intrigued by Moncrief, Beckham, Cooks, and Adams. My take on Beckham and Moncrief hasn't changed much in the past 12 months. Cooks is really really tiny, but also explosive. Not a prototypical elite NFL WR at all. Maybe the right team can find a role for him.

- Thinking Landry, Huff, and Matthews will be relegated to supporting roles in the NFL. Not quite sure on Cody Latimer. Martavis Bryant is a likely bust IMO.

Click to expand...

• Hill more athletic than Hyde? I think they're on the same level, just different type of runners. Hill is more of a downhill, one-cut type of runner. Hyde is more shifty and can make multiple lateral cuts on a single run.
• I really like Williams, too, but he seems like a boom/bust type of runner.
• Freeman doesn't look any better than Sankey or Mason as a receiver. Sankey and Mason were just under- or misused. Heck Mason was even a kick returner. I think they can all be weapons.

• Matthews has been the best WR at Senior Bowl and has tremendous work ethic. No way he's less than a #1 WR NFL-wise. Longest wingspan among WRs as well. He could very well have a Keenan Allen type of rookie year. Not sure why you are still down on him. You love "economy of movement" and Matthews has a lot of it in his routes.
• Huff has been shining so far at Senior Bowl as well. I think he's going to blow up the combine like Josh Boyce. He's a better pure WR, though.

Xue said:

EBF said:

Starting to go back and look at the class as I try to build some kind of final pre-combine list. Some early quick hitters:

RUNNING BACKS

- I'm starting to think Jeremy Hill might be a more sudden, more athletic version of Carlos Hyde. He put together some impressive runs this season and packs a wallop with deceptive top speed.

- Hyde is okay, but he might lack the special qualities to be a really good pro. I'm curious to see what kind of explosiveness he shows at the combine.

- Seastrunk has a somewhat unique running style, but on his good days he's impressive. I get kind of a Gio Bernard/DeAngelo Williams vibe from him. He might not be a slam dunk top 3-4 rookie pick, but he looks fairly good and I think I'm likely to be cautiously optimistic regarding his outlook.

- Andre Williams is a fun player to watch. There are some obvious warts. He will never be a prolific pass catcher and he'll probably be a durability risk, but at times he's a pretty dominant runner with some freaky power/speed. I seem to be a little higher on him than a lot of the Internet draft pundits and I think he's likely to shine at the combine. Will he be a great FF option? The lack of receiving skills could be an issue. I think he's more of a deep league start 2RB special.

- I tentatively think Sankey, Freeman, and Mason are similar in their overall outlook. I don't see obvious star talent in any of those guys, but I think they're all talented enough to be serviceable if they go to an open situation with good opportunity. Mason and Sankey are efficient runners. Freeman might not be quite as smooth. A little more straight-line. He might have the most burst of the group though and he's a weapon as a receiver, which is huge.

WIDE RECEIVER

- I'm probably going to have Watkins as the #1 WR, though maybe with minor reservations. He's kind of a unique proposition. A straight-line speedster with more range and possession game than most players of that ilk. He isn't really built like the prototypical #1 NFL WR (the Fitz/VJax/Demaryius type) and doesn't move like them. With his speed and other traits, it might not matter much. All else being equal, I would rather have a big/agile receiver than the speed type.

- On that note, I think it's going to be important to nail your evaluations of Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin. Those are two guys who, if they hit, might have the highest ceiling of anyone in this WR class. I don't think sheer speed is going to be a question mark with them. In fact, Evans might be downright fast. The question will be whether they move around well enough before/after the catch to be effective at the next level. It's something that I'll be looking at closely in their game cuts and also when they take the field for the positional drills at the combine. It is hard to hide in that environment.

- Lee should be good, but he's probably more of a 14-15 ppg WR than a potential 18-20 ppg type of target.

- Somewhat intrigued by Moncrief, Beckham, Cooks, and Adams. My take on Beckham and Moncrief hasn't changed much in the past 12 months. Cooks is really really tiny, but also explosive. Not a prototypical elite NFL WR at all. Maybe the right team can find a role for him.

- Thinking Landry, Huff, and Matthews will be relegated to supporting roles in the NFL. Not quite sure on Cody Latimer. Martavis Bryant is a likely bust IMO.

Click to expand...

• Hill more athletic than Hyde? I think they're on the same level, just different type of runners. Hill is more of a downhill, one-cut type of runner. Hyde is more shifty and can make multiple lateral cuts on a single run.
• I really like Williams, too, but he seems like a boom/bust type of runner.
• Freeman doesn't look any better than Sankey or Mason as a receiver. Sankey and Mason were just under- or misused. Heck Mason was even a kick returner. I think they can all be weapons.

• Matthews has been the best WR at Senior Bowl and has tremendous work ethic. No way he's less than a #1 WR NFL-wise. Longest wingspan among WRs as well. He could very well have a Keenan Allen type of rookie year. Not sure why you are still down on him. You love "economy of movement" and Matthews has a lot of it in his routes.
• Huff has been shining so far at Senior Bowl as well. I think he's going to blow up the combine like Josh Boyce. He's a better pure WR, though.

Click to expand...

Brewtown said:

EBF said:

Starting to go back and look at the class as I try to build some kind of final pre-combine list. Some early quick hitters:

RUNNING BACKS

- I'm starting to think Jeremy Hill might be a more sudden, more athletic version of Carlos Hyde. He put together some impressive runs this season and packs a wallop with deceptive top speed.

- Hyde is okay, but he might lack the special qualities to be a really good pro. I'm curious to see what kind of explosiveness he shows at the combine.

- Seastrunk has a somewhat unique running style, but on his good days he's impressive. I get kind of a Gio Bernard/DeAngelo Williams vibe from him. He might not be a slam dunk top 3-4 rookie pick, but he looks fairly good and I think I'm likely to be cautiously optimistic regarding his outlook.

- Andre Williams is a fun player to watch. There are some obvious warts. He will never be a prolific pass catcher and he'll probably be a durability risk, but at times he's a pretty dominant runner with some freaky power/speed. I seem to be a little higher on him than a lot of the Internet draft pundits and I think he's likely to shine at the combine. Will he be a great FF option? The lack of receiving skills could be an issue. I think he's more of a deep league start 2RB special.

- I tentatively think Sankey, Freeman, and Mason are similar in their overall outlook. I don't see obvious star talent in any of those guys, but I think they're all talented enough to be serviceable if they go to an open situation with good opportunity. Mason and Sankey are efficient runners. Freeman might not be quite as smooth. A little more straight-line. He might have the most burst of the group though and he's a weapon as a receiver, which is huge.

WIDE RECEIVER

- I'm probably going to have Watkins as the #1 WR, though maybe with minor reservations. He's kind of a unique proposition. A straight-line speedster with more range and possession game than most players of that ilk. He isn't really built like the prototypical #1 NFL WR (the Fitz/VJax/Demaryius type) and doesn't move like them. With his speed and other traits, it might not matter much. All else being equal, I would rather have a big/agile receiver than the speed type.

- On that note, I think it's going to be important to nail your evaluations of Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin. Those are two guys who, if they hit, might have the highest ceiling of anyone in this WR class. I don't think sheer speed is going to be a question mark with them. In fact, Evans might be downright fast. The question will be whether they move around well enough before/after the catch to be effective at the next level. It's something that I'll be looking at closely in their game cuts and also when they take the field for the positional drills at the combine. It is hard to hide in that environment.

- Lee should be good, but he's probably more of a 14-15 ppg WR than a potential 18-20 ppg type of target.

- Somewhat intrigued by Moncrief, Beckham, Cooks, and Adams. My take on Beckham and Moncrief hasn't changed much in the past 12 months. Cooks is really really tiny, but also explosive. Not a prototypical elite NFL WR at all. Maybe the right team can find a role for him.

- Thinking Landry, Huff, and Matthews will be relegated to supporting roles in the NFL. Not quite sure on Cody Latimer. Martavis Bryant is a likely bust IMO.

Click to expand...

I'm worried about Williams at the combine. Speed could be an issue.... I don't see speed being an issue for Sankey, Mason, and Freeman. I would group Williams in that second tier just outside of the elite 7 RBs ( Carey, Hill, Sankey, Mason, Seastrunk, Hyde, Freeman - I don't see any of these 7 RBs busting in the NFL). If Williams runs in the 4.4/low 4.5s he has a potential to join that group. I don't think that he will. If he struggles to run a 4.6 (which I suspect) -he then falls out of the top 10.At WR their are others that has great NFL potential: Allen Robinson (I know EBF is a fan of his), Brandon Coleman, Cody Hoffman, Jered Abbrederis. Really looking forward to the combine for these guys.

Robinson- #5/6 on my board for WRs in this years class. Great size and looks like a very natural WR.

Coleman- has the size and pedigree to be a red-zone monster at the next level.

Hoffman- I think that I am higher on him than most. Good athlete with great size. He could be a PPR monster in the NFL. I think he will be a great value in round 2 of rookie drafts.

Abbrederis- sneaky fast WR who produced in a run heavy offense. If he lands in the right situation and is utilized correctly he could e a monster in the slot. Interested to see how he runs at the combine.

These 4 WRs (in addition to who EBF mentioned above) give this class great depth.

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Xue said:

EBF said:

Starting to go back and look at the class as I try to build some kind of final pre-combine list. Some early quick hitters:

RUNNING BACKS

- I'm starting to think Jeremy Hill might be a more sudden, more athletic version of Carlos Hyde. He put together some impressive runs this season and packs a wallop with deceptive top speed.

- Hyde is okay, but he might lack the special qualities to be a really good pro. I'm curious to see what kind of explosiveness he shows at the combine.

- Seastrunk has a somewhat unique running style, but on his good days he's impressive. I get kind of a Gio Bernard/DeAngelo Williams vibe from him. He might not be a slam dunk top 3-4 rookie pick, but he looks fairly good and I think I'm likely to be cautiously optimistic regarding his outlook.

- Andre Williams is a fun player to watch. There are some obvious warts. He will never be a prolific pass catcher and he'll probably be a durability risk, but at times he's a pretty dominant runner with some freaky power/speed. I seem to be a little higher on him than a lot of the Internet draft pundits and I think he's likely to shine at the combine. Will he be a great FF option? The lack of receiving skills could be an issue. I think he's more of a deep league start 2RB special.

- I tentatively think Sankey, Freeman, and Mason are similar in their overall outlook. I don't see obvious star talent in any of those guys, but I think they're all talented enough to be serviceable if they go to an open situation with good opportunity. Mason and Sankey are efficient runners. Freeman might not be quite as smooth. A little more straight-line. He might have the most burst of the group though and he's a weapon as a receiver, which is huge.

WIDE RECEIVER

- I'm probably going to have Watkins as the #1 WR, though maybe with minor reservations. He's kind of a unique proposition. A straight-line speedster with more range and possession game than most players of that ilk. He isn't really built like the prototypical #1 NFL WR (the Fitz/VJax/Demaryius type) and doesn't move like them. With his speed and other traits, it might not matter much. All else being equal, I would rather have a big/agile receiver than the speed type.

- On that note, I think it's going to be important to nail your evaluations of Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin. Those are two guys who, if they hit, might have the highest ceiling of anyone in this WR class. I don't think sheer speed is going to be a question mark with them. In fact, Evans might be downright fast. The question will be whether they move around well enough before/after the catch to be effective at the next level. It's something that I'll be looking at closely in their game cuts and also when they take the field for the positional drills at the combine. It is hard to hide in that environment.

- Lee should be good, but he's probably more of a 14-15 ppg WR than a potential 18-20 ppg type of target.

- Somewhat intrigued by Moncrief, Beckham, Cooks, and Adams. My take on Beckham and Moncrief hasn't changed much in the past 12 months. Cooks is really really tiny, but also explosive. Not a prototypical elite NFL WR at all. Maybe the right team can find a role for him.

- Thinking Landry, Huff, and Matthews will be relegated to supporting roles in the NFL. Not quite sure on Cody Latimer. Martavis Bryant is a likely bust IMO.

Click to expand...

• Hill more athletic than Hyde? I think they're on the same level, just different type of runners. Hill is more of a downhill, one-cut type of runner. Hyde is more shifty and can make multiple lateral cuts on a single run.
• I really like Williams, too, but he seems like a boom/bust type of runner.
• Freeman doesn't look any better than Sankey or Mason as a receiver. Sankey and Mason were just under- or misused. Heck Mason was even a kick returner. I think they can all be weapons.

• Matthews has been the best WR at Senior Bowl and has tremendous work ethic. No way he's less than a #1 WR NFL-wise. Longest wingspan among WRs as well. He could very well have a Keenan Allen type of rookie year. Not sure why you are still down on him. You love "economy of movement" and Matthews has a lot of it in his routes.
• Huff has been shining so far at Senior Bowl as well. I think he's going to blow up the combine like Josh Boyce. He's a better pure WR, though.

Click to expand...

Xue said:

• Hill more athletic than Hyde? I think they're on the same level, just different type of runners. Hill is more of a downhill, one-cut type of runner. Hyde is more shifty and can make multiple lateral cuts on a single run.
• I really like Williams, too, but he seems like a boom/bust type of runner.
• Freeman doesn't look any better than Sankey or Mason as a receiver. Sankey and Mason were just under- or misused. Heck Mason was even a kick returner. I think they can all be weapons.

• Matthews has been the best WR at Senior Bowl and has tremendous work ethic. No way he's less than a #1 WR NFL-wise. Longest wingspan among WRs as well. He could very well have a Keenan Allen type of rookie year. Not sure why you are still down on him. You love "economy of movement" and Matthews has a lot of it in his routes.
• Huff has been shining so far at Senior Bowl as well. I think he's going to blow up the combine like Josh Boyce. He's a better pure WR, though.

Click to expand...

EBF said:

Starting to go back and look at the class as I try to build some kind of final pre-combine list. Some early quick hitters:

RUNNING BACKS

- I'm starting to think Jeremy Hill might be a more sudden, more athletic version of Carlos Hyde. He put together some impressive runs this season and packs a wallop with deceptive top speed.

- Hyde is okay, but he might lack the special qualities to be a really good pro. I'm curious to see what kind of explosiveness he shows at the combine.

- Seastrunk has a somewhat unique running style, but on his good days he's impressive. I get kind of a Gio Bernard/DeAngelo Williams vibe from him. He might not be a slam dunk top 3-4 rookie pick, but he looks fairly good and I think I'm likely to be cautiously optimistic regarding his outlook.

- Andre Williams is a fun player to watch. There are some obvious warts. He will never be a prolific pass catcher and he'll probably be a durability risk, but at times he's a pretty dominant runner with some freaky power/speed. I seem to be a little higher on him than a lot of the Internet draft pundits and I think he's likely to shine at the combine. Will he be a great FF option? The lack of receiving skills could be an issue. I think he's more of a deep league start 2RB special.

- I tentatively think Sankey, Freeman, and Mason are similar in their overall outlook. I don't see obvious star talent in any of those guys, but I think they're all talented enough to be serviceable if they go to an open situation with good opportunity. Mason and Sankey are efficient runners. Freeman might not be quite as smooth. A little more straight-line. He might have the most burst of the group though and he's a weapon as a receiver, which is huge.

WIDE RECEIVER

- I'm probably going to have Watkins as the #1 WR, though maybe with minor reservations. He's kind of a unique proposition. A straight-line speedster with more range and possession game than most players of that ilk. He isn't really built like the prototypical #1 NFL WR (the Fitz/VJax/Demaryius type) and doesn't move like them. With his speed and other traits, it might not matter much. All else being equal, I would rather have a big/agile receiver than the speed type.

- On that note, I think it's going to be important to nail your evaluations of Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin. Those are two guys who, if they hit, might have the highest ceiling of anyone in this WR class. I don't think sheer speed is going to be a question mark with them. In fact, Evans might be downright fast. The question will be whether they move around well enough before/after the catch to be effective at the next level. It's something that I'll be looking at closely in their game cuts and also when they take the field for the positional drills at the combine. It is hard to hide in that environment.

- Lee should be good, but he's probably more of a 14-15 ppg WR than a potential 18-20 ppg type of target.

- Somewhat intrigued by Moncrief, Beckham, Cooks, and Adams. My take on Beckham and Moncrief hasn't changed much in the past 12 months. Cooks is really really tiny, but also explosive. Not a prototypical elite NFL WR at all. Maybe the right team can find a role for him.

- Thinking Landry, Huff, and Matthews will be relegated to supporting roles in the NFL. Not quite sure on Cody Latimer. Martavis Bryant is a likely bust IMO.

Click to expand...

clwn_posse said:

I think a case could be made to take Kelvin Benjamin #1 in Rookie drafts. He makes some amazing catches and will only get better if the work ethic is there.

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Brewtown said:

ILUVBEER99 said:

Bob Magaw said:

It might be useful to make a distinction between what we think and how they are viewed as prospects. Maybe Watkins won't be as good as Thomas and Bryant. But based on where they went in the draft, and where Watkins is likely to, it would seem scouts have assigned him a higher grade at a comparable stage of development (part of their overall grade was shaped by questions about whether Bryant might have off field issues, and Georgia Tech's unorthodox scheme in the case of Thomas). His freshman campaign was one of the best ever at any position in NCAA history (only WR to be first team AP All American as true freshman - only others Herschel Walker, Marshall Faulk and Adrian Peyetson, excellent company).

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Going into the nfl draft Watkins will definitely be viewed more favorably than dez/DT were.

My point is the guys who end up FF beasts in today's nfl are cut from a different body type, which Sammy doesn't possess.

I love Sammy and would take him #1, but in rookie drafts people always fall in love with the rookie rb in a good spot. It happens every year.

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It should happen!

Running backs are like diamonds and WRs are like clearance DVDs at Wal-Mart - there is a whole bin full of them available!!

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clwn_posse said:

I think a case could be made to take Kelvin Benjamin #1 in Rookie drafts. He makes some amazing catches and will only get better if the work ethic is there.

Click to expand...

ZWK said:

clwn_posse said:

I think a case could be made to take Kelvin Benjamin #1 in Rookie drafts. He makes some amazing catches and will only get better if the work ethic is there.

Click to expand...

By my numbers, Benjamin has the least impressive college stats out of the 11 WRs who are ranked among the top 70 prospects here.

He also did not come out very well in Greg Peshek's metrics (based on game charting).

Click to expand...

Brewtown said:

I'm worried about Williams at the combine. Speed could be an issue.... I don't see speed being an issue for Sankey, Mason, and Freeman. I would group Williams in that second tier just outside of the elite 7 RBs ( Carey, Hill, Sankey, Mason, Seastrunk, Hyde, Freeman - I don't see any of these 7 RBs busting in the NFL). If Williams runs in the 4.4/low 4.5s he has a potential to join that group. I don't think that he will. If he struggles to run a 4.6 (which I suspect) -he then falls out of the top 10.

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Time Kibitzer said:

ZWK said:

clwn_posse said:

I think a case could be made to take Kelvin Benjamin #1 in Rookie drafts. He makes some amazing catches and will only get better if the work ethic is there.

Click to expand...

By my numbers, Benjamin has the least impressive college stats out of the 11 WRs who are ranked among the top 70 prospects here.

He also did not come out very well in Greg Peshek's metrics (based on game charting).

Click to expand...

He also makes catches that no NFL player outside of Calvin Johnson can make. His combination of height, length, jumping ability, and ability to catch/high pointing the ball is nothing short of outstanding, as evidenced by this catch here, and a few others earlier on in that video. Benjamin definitely has his warts, like a penchant to drop easy passes, being a year old, and perhaps having no more than adequate speed, but I think it'd be foolish to ignore his upside based on his college stats.

Click to expand...

Time Kibitzer said:

ZWK said:

clwn_posse said:

I think a case could be made to take Kelvin Benjamin #1 in Rookie drafts. He makes some amazing catches and will only get better if the work ethic is there.

Click to expand...

By my numbers, Benjamin has the least impressive college stats out of the 11 WRs who are ranked among the top 70 prospects here.

He also did not come out very well in Greg Peshek's metrics (based on game charting).

Click to expand...

He also makes catches that no NFL player outside of Calvin Johnson can make. His combination of height, length, jumping ability, and ability to catch/high pointing the ball is nothing short of outstanding, as evidenced by this catch here, and a few others earlier on in that video. Benjamin definitely has his warts, like a penchant to drop easy passes, being a year old, and perhaps having no more than adequate speed, but I think it'd be foolish to ignore his upside based on his college stats.

Click to expand...

JFS171 said:

Time Kibitzer said:

ZWK said:

clwn_posse said:

I think a case could be made to take Kelvin Benjamin #1 in Rookie drafts. He makes some amazing catches and will only get better if the work ethic is there.

Click to expand...

By my numbers, Benjamin has the least impressive college stats out of the 11 WRs who are ranked among the top 70 prospects here.

He also did not come out very well in Greg Peshek's metrics (based on game charting).

Click to expand...

He also makes catches that no NFL player outside of Calvin Johnson can make. His combination of height, length, jumping ability, and ability to catch/high pointing the ball is nothing short of outstanding, as evidenced by this catch here, and a few others earlier on in that video. Benjamin definitely has his warts, like a penchant to drop easy passes, being a year old, and perhaps having no more than adequate speed, but I think it'd be foolish to ignore his upside based on his college stats.

Click to expand...

I see the ceiling with Benjamin that others do as well, and he's a physical freak in the air (still a couple questions on the speed/agility to be checked off). But I also believe it's rather myopic to ignore the downside, and with Benjamin I think it's pretty significant. He scares me as a prospect...

The sky is the limit, but the floor is really low IMO.

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mlball77 said:

If this is a pretty deep class at RB (though maybe lacking elite talent at the very top), it wouldn't surprise me if I were to see 5+ of the first 8 picks go RB in my league. -This is not to say this is good/bad or right/wrong, just an observation.

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According to the National Football Post, three general managers with a "serious interest" in this year's quarterback-draft class compare it to 2011's.
Per reporter Jason Cole, one GM added "except there’s no Cam Newton." Aside from Newton, the 2011 class included Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker and Christian Ponder. In other words, a bunch of flops. All four players went in the first 12 picks. Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater is generally considered the top talent in this year's class, followed in varying order by Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel, UCF's Blake Bortles and Fresno State's Derek Carr. With as many as seven QB-needy teams picking in the top 10 this May, reaches like 2011's are a definite possibility.

Source: National Football Post

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Faust said:

Rotoworld:

According to the National Football Post, three general managers with a "serious interest" in this year's quarterback-draft class compare it to 2011's.
Per reporter Jason Cole, one GM added "except there’s no Cam Newton." Aside from Newton, the 2011 class included Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker and Christian Ponder. In other words, a bunch of flops. All four players went in the first 12 picks. Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater is generally considered the top talent in this year's class, followed in varying order by Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel, UCF's Blake Bortles and Fresno State's Derek Carr. With as many as seven QB-needy teams picking in the top 10 this May, reaches like 2011's are a definite possibility.

Source: National Football Post

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mlball77 said:

Brewtown said:

ILUVBEER99 said:

Bob Magaw said:

It might be useful to make a distinction between what we think and how they are viewed as prospects. Maybe Watkins won't be as good as Thomas and Bryant. But based on where they went in the draft, and where Watkins is likely to, it would seem scouts have assigned him a higher grade at a comparable stage of development (part of their overall grade was shaped by questions about whether Bryant might have off field issues, and Georgia Tech's unorthodox scheme in the case of Thomas). His freshman campaign was one of the best ever at any position in NCAA history (only WR to be first team AP All American as true freshman - only others Herschel Walker, Marshall Faulk and Adrian Peyetson, excellent company).

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Going into the nfl draft Watkins will definitely be viewed more favorably than dez/DT were.

My point is the guys who end up FF beasts in today's nfl are cut from a different body type, which Sammy doesn't possess.

I love Sammy and would take him #1, but in rookie drafts people always fall in love with the rookie rb in a good spot. It happens every year.

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It should happen!

Running backs are like diamonds and WRs are like clearance DVDs at Wal-Mart - there is a whole bin full of them available!!

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I know that leagues are different, and relative positional values will vary, but I think my dynasty league generally sees this like you guys are describing. People seem willing to reach much more for potential RB help in the draft... but it makes sense, as WR help seems easier to come by, through various means.

If this is a pretty deep class at RB (though maybe lacking elite talent at the very top), it wouldn't surprise me if I were to see 5+ of the first 8 picks go RB in my league. -This is not to say this is good/bad or right/wrong, just an observation.

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JFS171 said:

mlball77 said:

If this is a pretty deep class at RB (though maybe lacking elite talent at the very top), it wouldn't surprise me if I were to see 5+ of the first 8 picks go RB in my league. -This is not to say this is good/bad or right/wrong, just an observation.

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My main league is the same way - 16 team, .5 PPR, start 2 RBs, and two flex spots. That's 32 RBs that HAVE to be played every week, and they're not exactly evenly distributed to all the teams. Guys are ALWAYS hunting RB talent in that league to the point that they pass over elite WRs.

Two years ago Blackmon fell to the 7th pick; Floyd to the 10th pick. Last year Austin (though he was polarizing given the size) fell to the 5th pick, Hopkins 6th, and Patterson 8th… and even that's only because LeVeon Bell was hurt in preseason (when our ridiculously late draft occurs) and was falling like a rock in the rookie draft (inexplicably IMO -- he went 7th).

There's a legit chance I'll end up with Watkins or Evans/Lee (whomever shakes out as the 2nd WR) with the 6th pick due do the depth of this RB class… everyone at the top will chase them.

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EBF said:

Brewtown said:

I'm worried about Williams at the combine. Speed could be an issue.... I don't see speed being an issue for Sankey, Mason, and Freeman. I would group Williams in that second tier just outside of the elite 7 RBs ( Carey, Hill, Sankey, Mason, Seastrunk, Hyde, Freeman - I don't see any of these 7 RBs busting in the NFL). If Williams runs in the 4.4/low 4.5s he has a potential to join that group. I don't think that he will. If he struggles to run a 4.6 (which I suspect) -he then falls out of the top 10.

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If anything, I expect Williams to rise after the combine. I think he might have more sheer speed than people realize. He has very powerful, very long strides that chew up a lot of ground. His turnover isn't great, but he should run at least low 4.5 with potential to break into the 4.4 range IMO. If you watch the chain of runs beginning ~ 3:40 on the following video you'll notice that he's able to run to daylight and even destroy some angles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujt1S9P2XHE

I think he's also likely to have the most impressive RB physique "on the hoof" at the underwear olympics. He's listed at a relatively modest 6'0" 227, but to these eyes he looks like he might be a lot heavier than that. He's a big dude and there doesn't appear to be a lot of bad weight on his frame. When he's standing next to guys like Carey, Sankey, and Mason I think there will be a tangible difference.

In terms of negatives, long striders often struggle with short area quickness/change of direction and Williams is no different. He is not going to be Ray Rice or Shady McCoy in terms of picking his way through traffic. He's a more of a deliberate, heavy-footed runner than a guy who's going to dance and juke his way around tacklers. Some players are described as "quicker than fast." Well, Williams is probably "faster than quick" and that's a bit of a problem at RB. It's apparent from his highlights that he's not great at avoiding contact, as there are numerous instances of him being forced to bowl over defenders rather than evade them. Such runs are often cited as positive plays, but many times they reflect deficits in vision/short area quickness/elusiveness. So with Williams you're probably going to get a player who burns really bright for a short period of time, but breaks down relatively quickly.

I've previously said that he's a player who won't appeal to every team, but who will be especially coveted by teams that appreciate his style. Meaning he doesn't fit every scheme because his skill set is pretty narrow, but for teams seeking that type of player, he's going to be a very appealing option. I think all of this makes him a prime candidate to be drafted a little higher than projected. Draft Scout has him as a 4th round pick right now. I guess that's possible, but I think he could go in the 2nd.

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Faust said:

Rotoworld:

According to the National Football Post, three general managers with a "serious interest" in this year's quarterback-draft class compare it to 2011's.
Per reporter Jason Cole, one GM added "except there’s no Cam Newton." Aside from Newton, the 2011 class included Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker and Christian Ponder. In other words, a bunch of flops. All four players went in the first 12 picks. Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater is generally considered the top talent in this year's class, followed in varying order by Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel, UCF's Blake Bortles and Fresno State's Derek Carr. With as many as seven QB-needy teams picking in the top 10 this May, reaches like 2011's are a definite possibility.

Source: National Football Post

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wdcrob said:

Surprised to see you don't like Benjamin Z.

I'll wait until the combine to finalize my stuff, but he looks pretty strong right now.

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ZWK said:

wdcrob said:

Surprised to see you don't like Benjamin Z.

I'll wait until the combine to finalize my stuff, but he looks pretty strong right now.

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The case against Benjamin in very brief form: he was 66th in the country in receiving yards per game, while playing for a team that ranked 14th in passing yards per game. Usually, guys who turn into elite NFL receivers do more than that in college.

This is actually a ridiculously strong WR class according to my WR metrics (so much so that I am considering adding some era adjustments which would lead me to downgrade everyone), so 11th out of 11 is actually not that bad. On the scale I use, a score of 0 is an average college WR1, a 4 can be considered the cutoff for "good" college numbers (which almost all elite NFL receivers reach), and a 9 is the cutoff for "excellent" college numbers (which indicate a higher success rate). Benjamin is very close to a 4 (slightly below, according to my current formula, though I'm still tinkering a bit). 8 of the 11 WRs have a 9+ (Watkins, Evans, Lee, Robinson, Cooks, Matthews, Adams, and Richardson), and Beckham & Landry are around a 6 or 7.

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Milkman said:

ZWK said:

wdcrob said:

Surprised to see you don't like Benjamin Z.

I'll wait until the combine to finalize my stuff, but he looks pretty strong right now.

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The case against Benjamin in very brief form: he was 66th in the country in receiving yards per game, while playing for a team that ranked 14th in passing yards per game. Usually, guys who turn into elite NFL receivers do more than that in college.

This is actually a ridiculously strong WR class according to my WR metrics (so much so that I am considering adding some era adjustments which would lead me to downgrade everyone), so 11th out of 11 is actually not that bad. On the scale I use, a score of 0 is an average college WR1, a 4 can be considered the cutoff for "good" college numbers (which almost all elite NFL receivers reach), and a 9 is the cutoff for "excellent" college numbers (which indicate a higher success rate). Benjamin is very close to a 4 (slightly below, according to my current formula, though I'm still tinkering a bit). 8 of the 11 WRs have a 9+ (Watkins, Evans, Lee, Robinson, Cooks, Matthews, Adams, and Richardson), and Beckham & Landry are around a 6 or 7.

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Keep us posted because if you feel the numbers are is juiced due to teams throwing more it would be good to keep everything in perspective.

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ZWK said:

wdcrob said:

Surprised to see you don't like Benjamin Z.

I'll wait until the combine to finalize my stuff, but he looks pretty strong right now.

Click to expand...

The case against Benjamin in very brief form: he was 66th in the country in receiving yards per game, while playing for a team that ranked 14th in passing yards per game. Usually, guys who turn into elite NFL receivers do more than that in college.

This is actually a ridiculously strong WR class according to my WR metrics (so much so that I am considering adding some era adjustments which would lead me to downgrade everyone), so 11th out of 11 is actually not that bad. On the scale I use, a score of 0 is an average college WR1, a 4 can be considered the cutoff for "good" college numbers (which almost all elite NFL receivers reach), and a 9 is the cutoff for "excellent" college numbers (which indicate a higher success rate). Benjamin is very close to a 4 (slightly below, according to my current formula, though I'm still tinkering a bit). 8 of the 11 WRs have a 9+ (Watkins, Evans, Lee, Robinson, Cooks, Matthews, Adams, and Richardson), and Beckham & Landry are around a 6 or 7.

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Milkman said:

ZWK said:

wdcrob said:

Surprised to see you don't like Benjamin Z.

I'll wait until the combine to finalize my stuff, but he looks pretty strong right now.

Click to expand...

The case against Benjamin in very brief form: he was 66th in the country in receiving yards per game, while playing for a team that ranked 14th in passing yards per game. Usually, guys who turn into elite NFL receivers do more than that in college.

This is actually a ridiculously strong WR class according to my WR metrics (so much so that I am considering adding some era adjustments which would lead me to downgrade everyone), so 11th out of 11 is actually not that bad. On the scale I use, a score of 0 is an average college WR1, a 4 can be considered the cutoff for "good" college numbers (which almost all elite NFL receivers reach), and a 9 is the cutoff for "excellent" college numbers (which indicate a higher success rate). Benjamin is very close to a 4 (slightly below, according to my current formula, though I'm still tinkering a bit). 8 of the 11 WRs have a 9+ (Watkins, Evans, Lee, Robinson, Cooks, Matthews, Adams, and Richardson), and Beckham & Landry are around a 6 or 7.

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Keep us posted because if you feel the numbers are is juiced due to teams throwing more it would be good to keep everything in perspective.

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Time Kibitzer said:

Faust said:

Rotoworld:

According to the National Football Post, three general managers with a "serious interest" in this year's quarterback-draft class compare it to 2011's.

Per reporter Jason Cole, one GM added "except there’s no Cam Newton." Aside from Newton, the 2011 class included Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker and Christian Ponder. In other words, a bunch of flops. All four players went in the first 12 picks. Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater is generally considered the top talent in this year's class, followed in varying order by Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel, UCF's Blake Bortles and Fresno State's Derek Carr. With as many as seven QB-needy teams picking in the top 10 this May, reaches like 2011's are a definite possibility.

Source: National Football Post

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The thing about that 2011 QB class was that all 3 of Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder sucked in college. I think that QB draft class was nothing more than an outlier where 3 bad franchises all happened to made dumb picks and reach for a bad QB and it just happened to happen in the same draft, I think the chances of there being many future drafts like that are pretty slim.

Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, and Carr all dominated NCAA competition, if they all end up grading out as first round picks and end up being drafted in the first round of the draft, I'd say the chance that 3 or 4 of them outright busting like Gabbert/Locker/Ponder did or are likely to is slim to nil.

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ShaHBucks said:

Milkman said:

ZWK said:

wdcrob said:

Surprised to see you don't like Benjamin Z.

I'll wait until the combine to finalize my stuff, but he looks pretty strong right now.

Click to expand...

The case against Benjamin in very brief form: he was 66th in the country in receiving yards per game, while playing for a team that ranked 14th in passing yards per game. Usually, guys who turn into elite NFL receivers do more than that in college.

This is actually a ridiculously strong WR class according to my WR metrics (so much so that I am considering adding some era adjustments which would lead me to downgrade everyone), so 11th out of 11 is actually not that bad. On the scale I use, a score of 0 is an average college WR1, a 4 can be considered the cutoff for "good" college numbers (which almost all elite NFL receivers reach), and a 9 is the cutoff for "excellent" college numbers (which indicate a higher success rate). Benjamin is very close to a 4 (slightly below, according to my current formula, though I'm still tinkering a bit). 8 of the 11 WRs have a 9+ (Watkins, Evans, Lee, Robinson, Cooks, Matthews, Adams, and Richardson), and Beckham & Landry are around a 6 or 7.

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Keep us posted because if you feel the numbers are is juiced due to teams throwing more it would be good to keep everything in perspective.

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Especially Adams. Carr threw the ball a ridiculous 50x a game.

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lbouchard said:

ShaHBucks said:

Milkman said:

ZWK said:

wdcrob said:

Surprised to see you don't like Benjamin Z.

I'll wait until the combine to finalize my stuff, but he looks pretty strong right now.

Click to expand...

The case against Benjamin in very brief form: he was 66th in the country in receiving yards per game, while playing for a team that ranked 14th in passing yards per game. Usually, guys who turn into elite NFL receivers do more than that in college.

This is actually a ridiculously strong WR class according to my WR metrics (so much so that I am considering adding some era adjustments which would lead me to downgrade everyone), so 11th out of 11 is actually not that bad. On the scale I use, a score of 0 is an average college WR1, a 4 can be considered the cutoff for "good" college numbers (which almost all elite NFL receivers reach), and a 9 is the cutoff for "excellent" college numbers (which indicate a higher success rate). Benjamin is very close to a 4 (slightly below, according to my current formula, though I'm still tinkering a bit). 8 of the 11 WRs have a 9+ (Watkins, Evans, Lee, Robinson, Cooks, Matthews, Adams, and Richardson), and Beckham & Landry are around a 6 or 7.

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Keep us posted because if you feel the numbers are is juiced due to teams throwing more it would be good to keep everything in perspective.

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Especially Adams. Carr threw the ball a ridiculous 50x a game.

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Adams did put up crazy raw stats (24 TDs!) but he also posted a very solid dominator rating, accounting for 34% of team passing yards and 48% of team passing TDs, for an overall rate of .42. That's pretty good. If he measures in at his listed height, I'm a fan.

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lbouchard said:

ZWK said:

wdcrob said:

Surprised to see you don't like Benjamin Z.

I'll wait until the combine to finalize my stuff, but he looks pretty strong right now.

Click to expand...

The case against Benjamin in very brief form: he was 66th in the country in receiving yards per game, while playing for a team that ranked 14th in passing yards per game. Usually, guys who turn into elite NFL receivers do more than that in college.

This is actually a ridiculously strong WR class according to my WR metrics (so much so that I am considering adding some era adjustments which would lead me to downgrade everyone), so 11th out of 11 is actually not that bad. On the scale I use, a score of 0 is an average college WR1, a 4 can be considered the cutoff for "good" college numbers (which almost all elite NFL receivers reach), and a 9 is the cutoff for "excellent" college numbers (which indicate a higher success rate). Benjamin is very close to a 4 (slightly below, according to my current formula, though I'm still tinkering a bit). 8 of the 11 WRs have a 9+ (Watkins, Evans, Lee, Robinson, Cooks, Matthews, Adams, and Richardson), and Beckham & Landry are around a 6 or 7.

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It's early, but I think I agree. Benjamin is obviously very talented physically. However, I believe that he is already 22 years old, which means he will play his rookie season at age 23. He did look very good on the field for the Seminoles, but he was a literal man amongst boys. However, despite his age advantage, he only accounted for 29% of his team's passing yards and TDs. Good college WRs should be a decent amount higher. He also seems to lack concentration at times, leading to drops.

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ShaHBucks said:

lbouchard said:

ShaHBucks said:

Milkman said:

ZWK said:

wdcrob said:

Surprised to see you don't like Benjamin Z.

I'll wait until the combine to finalize my stuff, but he looks pretty strong right now.

Click to expand...

The case against Benjamin in very brief form: he was 66th in the country in receiving yards per game, while playing for a team that ranked 14th in passing yards per game. Usually, guys who turn into elite NFL receivers do more than that in college.

This is actually a ridiculously strong WR class according to my WR metrics (so much so that I am considering adding some era adjustments which would lead me to downgrade everyone), so 11th out of 11 is actually not that bad. On the scale I use, a score of 0 is an average college WR1, a 4 can be considered the cutoff for "good" college numbers (which almost all elite NFL receivers reach), and a 9 is the cutoff for "excellent" college numbers (which indicate a higher success rate). Benjamin is very close to a 4 (slightly below, according to my current formula, though I'm still tinkering a bit). 8 of the 11 WRs have a 9+ (Watkins, Evans, Lee, Robinson, Cooks, Matthews, Adams, and Richardson), and Beckham & Landry are around a 6 or 7.

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Keep us posted because if you feel the numbers are is juiced due to teams throwing more it would be good to keep everything in perspective.

Click to expand...

Especially Adams. Carr threw the ball a ridiculous 50x a game.

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Adams did put up crazy raw stats (24 TDs!) but he also posted a very solid dominator rating, accounting for 34% of team passing yards and 48% of team passing TDs, for an overall rate of .42. That's pretty good. If he measures in at his listed height, I'm a fan.

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I seen that on RotoViz. The MWC is terrible. The games I zeroed in on were Rutgers, USC and the top MWC team Utah St. Yes the raw totals are nice, but you have to account for Carr throwing the ball 60x's a game. That's twice the norm. Chop Adams numbers in half like it was a normal game in the 3 matchups and you get 5.3rec 65yds .67 TDs per game. That's just meh. The USC game was out of hand quick. They couldn't do any quick passes vs those type athletes. Same vs Oregon last season or Cal. I don't seriously rank grade WR/RB without the combine numbers so a lot can change my mind. Just peeking at the data I'm not too impressed.

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ZWK said:

wdcrob said:

Surprised to see you don't like Benjamin Z.

I'll wait until the combine to finalize my stuff, but he looks pretty strong right now.

Click to expand...

The case against Benjamin in very brief form: he was 66th in the country in receiving yards per game, while playing for a team that ranked 14th in passing yards per game. Usually, guys who turn into elite NFL receivers do more than that in college.

This is actually a ridiculously strong WR class according to my WR metrics (so much so that I am considering adding some era adjustments which would lead me to downgrade everyone), so 11th out of 11 is actually not that bad. On the scale I use, a score of 0 is an average college WR1, a 4 can be considered the cutoff for "good" college numbers (which almost all elite NFL receivers reach), and a 9 is the cutoff for "excellent" college numbers (which indicate a higher success rate). Benjamin is very close to a 4 (slightly below, according to my current formula, though I'm still tinkering a bit). 8 of the 11 WRs have a 9+ (Watkins, Evans, Lee, Robinson, Cooks, Matthews, Adams, and Richardson), and Beckham & Landry are around a 6 or 7.

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ZWK said:

To elaborate a little more on Benjamin and share a bit more on my method, let's take a closer look at the numbers which go into my calculation for him and 2 other WRs from this class who have a similarly high YPR: Odell Beckham and Mike Evans.

Here are their stats for the year, including receptions, an approximate estimate of targets (based on pre-Bowl-game data), receiving yards, TDs, and long receptions (25+ and 40+).

Player rec/tg, yd, td, 25+, 40+Beckham 59/85, 1152, 8, 18, 4Benjamin 54/83, 1011, 15, 13, 4Evans 69/96, 1394, 12, 24, 8At first glance, Evans clearly stands out among the trio while Beckham & Benjamin are a step back (and fairly close to each other overall, with Benjamin having more TDs and Beckham having the edge in yards & 25+ receptions).Now, let's add some context. Here are their teams' overall passing stats in the same categories, plus games played (and with total offensive TDs in parentheses):

Team g comp/att, yd, pTD (TD), 25+, 40+LSU 13 205/326, 3263, 23 (61), 42, 10FSU 14 288/442, 4423, 42 (94), 37, 15A&M 13 339/489, 4593, 40 (78), 50, 14The striking thing here is that LSU passed a lot less than the other two. Also, Florida State played an extra game.Now let's dig into some rate stats. First, yardage - yards per game, yards per team pass attempt, and percent of team's passing yards:

Player y/g y/a yd%Beckham 89 3.5 35%Benjamin 72 2.3 23%Evans 107 2.9 30%By these numbers, it looks like Beckham is challenging Evans for the most impressive while Benjamin trails in a clear 3rd.What about efficiency numbers - yards per target, and how that compares to the team's yards per attempt:

Player yd/t tm y/t diffBeckham 13.6 10.0 +3.5Benjamin 12.2 10.0 +2.2Evans 14.5 9.4 +5.1All three players have an impressively high yards per target, but there is a clear order here of Evans, Beckham, Benjamin.Next, touchdowns: per game, as a percentage of the team's total passing TDs, and as a percentage of the team's total offensive TDs:

Player td/g td/ptd td/totBeckham 0.62 34.8% 13.1%Benjamin 1.07 35.7% 16.0%Evans 0.92 30.0% 15.4%This is where Benjamin shines, although the differences aren't that huge.That leaves long gains, of 25+ or 40+. Here are their numbers, per game and as a percentage of the team's total long passing gains.

Player 25/g 40/g 25/tm 40/tmBeckham 1.38 0.31 43% 40%Benjamin 0.93 0.29 35% 27%Evans 1.85 0.62 48% 57%Evans stands out here again, followed by Beckham and then Benjamin.Finally, we can also look at some stats that Greg Peshek has tracked (with Beckham's stats only through early November). I've also included the averages (for the 18 WRs he has tracked this year and last).

Drop rate

Beckham 7.4%

Benjamin 9.7%

Evans 4.3%

Average 7.1%

Benjamin's hands leave the biggest doubts.

Yards after catch

Beckham 6.0

Benjamin 4.9

Evans 7.6

Average 6.3

Screens: percent of receptions which were screens & yards per reception on screens

Beckham 8%, ?? YPR

Benjamin 5%, -2.6 YPR

Evans 18%, 8.9 YPR

Average 22%, 6.9 YPR

Evans looks dangerous after the catch and is a threat on screens; Benjamin not so much. (Beckham is in between, and his success in the return game makes me suspect that these numbers may be selling him short). Evans's heavy usage in the screen game also makes his high YPR & YPT even more impressive.

That's a large collection of stats, with almost all of them pointing in the same direction. Evans's numbers are ridiculously good and Beckham's are also pretty nice, which does make this some tough competition for Benjamin, but we are talking about him as a potential first round NFL pick (and early first round fantasy pick) so he does have a pretty high bar to cross.

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Time Kibitzer said:

Been looking at the WRs a little more closely this past week, here's some of my thoughts on a few guys:

Going by nfldraftscout, Odell Beckham Jr. is pretty overrated right now. Guy's just too small and too slow to ever be a WR1 in the NFL imo; he's got nice WR skills and makes sharp cuts, but that's not enough for me to think he's worth being selected in the 1st or 2nd round which is where nfldraftscout currently has him. He's more of a 3rd round kinda player imo. And as someone who generally only spends their rookie picks on players with WR1 upside, Beckham's likely not gonna end up on any of my teams.

I know Jared Abbrederis is getting a lot of love at the Senior Bowl right now, but watching his college highlights I come away thinking he kind of sucks. He doesn't have much going for him besides being pretty fast. He's really skinny, is of a mediocre height, and he body catches too much. Guy's gonna have lots of trouble finding an NFL endzone; I wouldn't touch him in fantasy drafts.

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MOBILE, Ala. -- The scouting combine in February is the made-for-TV main event leading up to the NFL Draft, but no pre-draft gathering will have a greater effect on adjusting player grades than this week's practices at the Senior Bowl.

In Mobile, 109 of the nation's elite senior prospects auditioned in front of hundreds of NFL scouts and personnel men. Roughly 30 more turned down the invitation due to injury or personal choice. A year ago, Central Michigan offensive tackle Eric Fisher's dominant play led to his steady ascent toward the No. 1 overall pick by the Kansas City Chiefs. EJ Manuel rode an MVP performance in the game to become the only quarterback to earn a selection in the first round -- No. 16 overall to the Buffalo Bills.

The No. 1 pick this May will almost surely be an underclassman, but don't be fooled -- top prospects at the Senior Bowl have had a lot on the line this week, and my current Big Board reflects it.

The Big Board isn't a mock draft. There is no attention given to team needs or the projected selection order. It is simply a ranking of the 50 best prospects potentially eligible for the 2014 NFL Draft.

1. Jadeveon Clowney*, DE, South Carolina (6-feet-6, 268 pounds): There's no denying Clowney failed to live up to expectations, statistically speaking. He also inflamed concerns about his maturity with two speeding tickets before the Gamecocks' bowl game. Clowney's red flags are real, but so is his talent. Imposing, explosive and more technically sound than many realize, Clowney competes only with former No. 2 overall pick Julius Peppers (2002) as the most gifted defensive end prospect I have ever seen.

2. Jake Matthews, OT, Texas A&M (6-5, 305): The son of Hall of Famer Bruce Matthews, Jake proves the cliché -- the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. He has played well at left tackle this season after starring at right tackle over his first three years. Matthews is a terrific player, demonstrating impressive technique, strength and consistency. He is not, however, an elite athlete and some view his future back on the right side in the NFL.

3. Greg Robinson*, OT, Auburn (6-5, 320): Redshirt offensive linemen rarely earn more than a whisper in scouting circles, but the buzz around the Tigers' star left tackle is venturing into deafening. Physical and tenacious, Robinson is a grizzly bear in the running game, mauling opponents with an exciting blend of size, strength and athleticism. Auburn's reliance on the running game gave Robinson few opportunities in pass protection, meaning he could struggle initially in this role. Robinson isn't as polished as Matthews, which is why he ranks behind the Aggies' star for me, but the redshirt sophomore has an extraordinary upside which could lead to his earning a higher selection come draft day.

4. Teddy Bridgewater*, QB, Louisville (6-3, 220): In an era in which college quarterbacks' numbers are often inflated by short passes and relatively simplistic schemes, Bridgewater's sparkling production is due to Pro Bowl-caliber accuracy. His success (71 percent completion rate with 31 touchdowns against just four interceptions) comes out of a pro-style offense that requires him to make adjustments at the line of scrimmage and complete NFL throws. Those traits make Bridgewater an ideal fit in new Houston Texans head coach Bill O'Brien's offense, making him the safest candidate to be the No. 1 overall pick.

5. Sammy Watkins*, WR, Clemson (6-1, 200): Scouts love players who rise to the occasion in big games, and no one played better under the bright lights of bowl mania than Watkins, whose 16 catches for 227 yards and two scores lifted Clemson to a 40-35 victory over Ohio State in the Orange Bowl. Watkins is an explosive athlete whose instant acceleration, impressive body control and natural hands to pluck the ball should earn him Pro Bowl consideration early in his NFL career.

6. Anthony Barr, OLB, UCLA (6-4, 238): Barr's emergence as an elite NFL prospects has been well documented. A running back early in his career, Barr exploded in 2012 in his first season on the defensive side of the ball and backed it up with another spectacular campaign in 2013 -- 65 tackles, 20 tackles for loss, 10 sacks and five forced fumbles, earning him the Lott IMPACT Trophy. His burst, length and power make him tough to handle on the edge.

7. Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo (6-3, 248): With an FBS-record 16 career forced fumbles and record-tying 75 career tackles for loss, Mack's statistics jump off the page. Against the most gifted opponents he faced this season (Ohio State, Baylor, Connecticut), it was his game that jumped off the screen. His size, instincts and agility as an edge rusher make him equally intriguing to teams operating out of a 4-3 or 3-4 alignment.

8. Blake Bortles*, QB, Central Florida (6-3, 230): A prototypically built pocket passer with good awareness, athleticism and arm, Bortles looks the part of an NFL starting quarterback. He is methodical in his setup and delivery and is a bit inconsistent with his accuracy, but the mettle he showed in guiding UCF to several comeback victories in 2013 has scouts buzzing. Bortles isn't as polished as Bridgewater, but he may have an even higher upside. A top-10 pick is likely and it isn't out of the question that he'll rank as the best quarterback for some, potentially including Bill O'Brien, whose Penn State team lost to Bortles and UCF in 2013.

9. C.J. Mosley, OLB, Alabama (6-2, 232): A bit undersized, Mosley might be the best pound-for-pound player in the country. Athletic and instinctive, he is a true three-down linebacker capable of making plays against the run and pass. Mosley lacks the bulk scouts want in a pass rusher but his awareness in coverage is special. While the tape is phenomenal, Mosley has undergone multiple surgeries (knee, shoulder) over his career and could be the latest Alabama player to receive medical red flags from some evaluators.

10. Marqise Lee*, WR, Southern Cal (6-0, 195): A nagging left knee injury hampered Lee for much of the 2013 season, robbing the 2012 Biletnikoff Award winner of his trademark elusiveness and acceleration. Finally healthy in the Las Vegas Bowl against Fresno State, however, Lee showed off his playmaking ability, hauling in seven passes for 118 yards and two scores. Lee's relatively slight frame could lead to durability issues in the NFL, but his first-round skill set is undeniable.

11. Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan State (5-11, 197): Quick feet, loose hips and a fluid turning motion make Dennard a classic cover corner capable of shutting down half the field. Dennard allowed only three completions in 31 passes of 15-plus yards targeted against him this season. His ability in coverage played a huge role in the Spartans' run to a Rose Bowl victory, and was recognized with Dennard winning the Thorpe Award as the nation's elite defensive back. The only factor keeping Dennard from a selection in the top half of the first round is a question about his straight-line speed.

12. Eric Ebron*, TE, North Carolina (6-4, 245): Ebron has a jaw-dropping combination of size and athleticism that has earned comparisons to 49ers star Vernon Davis. Like Davis, however, Ebron struggles with consistency, relying too much on his athleticism rather than dedicating himself to learning the finer techniques of the position.

13. Johnny Manziel*, QB, Texas A&M (5-11, 210): Manziel's vision, elusiveness and accuracy on the move make him a mesmerizing prospect who will almost surely be drafted higher than I rank him. While dynamic throughout his career -- including in the Aggies' thrilling comeback over Duke in the Chick-fil-A Bowl -- red flags were raised with mediocre performances against LSU and Missouri to end the regular season. Bottled in the pocket by both, Manziel was unable to throw his receivers open and he struggled. The NFL rule books have never been more accommodating to dual-threat passers, but consistent accuracy from the pocket remains the most critical element to quarterback play at the next level.

14. Mike Evans*, WR, Texas A&M (6-5, 225): Like Manziel, Evans is just a redshirt sophomore, but he has shown star ability in dominating the SEC. Deceptively fast with great body control as well as timing, Evans is an exciting split end prospect who reminds scouts of Tampa Bay Buccaneers star Vincent Jackson. Of concern, however, is the fact that Evans does not have elite top-end speed and struggled when defenders matched his physicality.

15. Zach Martin, OL, Notre Dame (6-4, 308): The vast majority of Martin's school-record 52 career starts came at left tackle but his square-ish frame and 32¼-inch arms will earn him a projection inside to guard for many. Regardless of where he lines up, Martin plays with the controlled aggression I love along the offensive line, latching on and controlling opponents with excellent strength. Martin was the best player on the field during practices in Mobile.

16. Taylor Lewan, OT, Michigan (6-7, 310): With an impressive combination of size, strength and toughness, Lewan has earned comparisons to former Michigan standout Jake Long throughout his career with the Wolverines. Lewan was one of the bright spots in an otherwise disappointing 2013 season in Ann Arbor. Before drafting him, however, NFL teams will want to investigate Lewan's role -- if any -- in an alleged assault on an Ohio State fan following this year's Big Game.

17. Stephon Tuitt*, DL, Notre Dame (6-5, 303): Clowney isn't the only highly regarded defensive lineman who struggled under the burden of monstrous expectations in 2013. After dominating as a sophomore, Tuitt began his junior campaign out of shape (after missing spring due to hernia surgery) and struggled with consistency all season. Highly athletic with the frame to star as either a 4-3 defensive tackle or 3-4 defensive end, Tuitt's upside is just too tantalizing to ignore.

18. Cyrus Kouandjio*, OT, Alabama (6-5, 312): Nick Saban questioned draft analysts for pegging Kouandjio as a first-round talent before the season, but given the junior left tackle's exciting skill set the projection fits. Long-armed, athletic and aggressive, Kouandjio has many of the traits scouts are looking for in a potential Pro Bowl offensive tackle. However, a lack of elite foot quickness was exposed by the Oklahoma Sooners' pass rush in their Sugar Bowl upset win over the Tide.

19. Jace Amaro*, TE, Texas Tech (6-5, 260): The NFL is looking for seam threats rather than extra blockers at tight end. There wasn't a more impressive prospect in the country in 2013 in this role than Amaro, who finished the regular season with 106 catches for 1,352 yards -- the most ever from a tight end in FBS history. Despite Amaro's size, he doesn't provide much as a blocker as he was split out wide as a glorified slot receiver throughout most of his collegiate career. In this role he has proven to be a Jimmy Graham-like matchup nightmare for defenders.

20. Derek Carr, QB, Fresno State (6-2, 215): Carr's staggering production (68.2 completion percentage, 50 TDs, 8 INTs) was certainly inflated by head coach Tim DeRuyter's QB-friendly spread attack and Fresno's talented receiving corps, but any questions about his talent were put to rest with a stellar week in Mobile. While no one questions Carr's arm, some wonder if he has the grit to hold up as the leader of an NFL huddle.

21. Ryan Shazier*, OLB, Ohio State (6-2, 226): Shazier may be 10-15 pounds lighter than scouts would prefer but his instincts, speed and bone-jarring hits make him a fearful defender offenses must account for on every snap. Statistics don't always tell the story, but they do with Shazier, whose 143 tackles, including an eye-popping 22½ for loss, not only led the Big Ten this season, they combine to rank among the best seasons from any Buckeyes defender over the past quarter century.

22. Kony Ealy*, DE, Missouri (6-5, 275): While teammate Michael Sam garnered more hype, scouts are increasingly intrigued by Ealy due to his impressive combination of size and athleticism. A highly versatile defender with experience inside and out for the Tigers, Ealy projects nicely to both the 4-3 and 3-4 alignments and the first-team All-SEC pick is just scratching the surface of his potential.

23. Calvin Pryor*, FS, Louisville (6-2, 208): With all of the focus on Bridgewater, Pryor was overshadowed a bit at Louisville. His stock will climb once scouts turn their attention to the instinctive and hard-hitting defender. Boasting the size, agility and physicality that every team is seeking to lead the deep patrol, Pryor is my top-rated safety of the 2014 draft class and projects as a first-round pick if he can assure scouts of his straight-line speed.

24. Timmy Jernigan*, DT, Florida State (6-2, 298): Jernigan played a critical role in the Seminoles' rise to the BCS national championship, showing a unique burst to penetrate gaps as well as the leverage and strength to hold up against the run. His upside is undeniable and could earn him a significantly higher grade for some. The fact that he has started just one year at the collegiate level and was clearly gassed against Auburn raises red flags about his readiness for the NFL, however.

25. Justin Gilbert, CB, Oklahoma State (6-0, 200): In terms of size, agility and speed, no cornerback offers a more intriguing skill set than the Cowboys' star. Gilbert, a Thorpe Award finalist, led the Big 12 with six interceptions this season and returned just as many kickoffs for touchdowns during his time in Stillwater.

26. Kyle Van Noy, OLB, BYU (6-3, 244): Van Noy may not be the most physical linebacker in the draft, but he might just be the most efficient. As he demonstrated throughout a spectacular career in Provo and again in Mobile, he's just as slippery and savvy in attacking the line of scrimmage as he is in dropping back into coverage.

27. Ra'Shede Hageman, DT, Minnesota (6-6, 318): Just as he did at times during his career with the Golden Gophers, Hagemen flashed a dominant combination of size, strength and athleticism during Senior Bowl practices. Scouts wish he was more consistent but given his position and scheme versatility, Hageman is a first-round gamble worth taking.

28. Jason Verrett, CB, TCU (5-10, 182): Verrett lacks the size so en vogue in today's NFL, but agility and ball skills never go out of style for cornerbacks. Verrett led the Big 12 with 22 passes defended and six interceptions in 2012. Through the end of the 2013 regular season he led again in pass deflections (16) while recording two pass thefts. While light, Verrett is scrappy and tenacious, making him an ideal nickel corner with the tackling ability to threaten on an occasional blitz.

29. Brandin Cooks, WR, Oregon State (5-10, 186): Beavers coach Mike Riley has made a career out of finding undersized pass-catchers to star in his offense, but Cooks is a different level of athlete from Sammie Stroughter, Markus Wheaton and the Rodgers brothers (James and Jacquizz). Boasting a combination of elusiveness, acceleration and toughness that is earning comparisons to Tavon Austin, the Biletnikoff Award winner shattered school and conference records and has already announced his intentions to enter the draft.

30. Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh (6-1, 288): Donald was arguably the Senior Bowl's MVP throughout the first three days of practice, routinely penetrating to make the kind of big plays behind the line of scrimmage that led to his earning CBSSports.com's Defensive Player of the Year, along with a host of other awards. Scouts wonder if he can hold up to the size and power of the NFL as a full-time defender but given his burst, 8-10 sacks a year as a three-technique pass-rush defensive tackle deserves late first round consideration for me.

31. Marcus Roberson*, CB, Florida (6-0, 195): Limited to just seven games (including only four starts) in 2013 due to a knee injury and one-game suspension for violation of team rules, Roberson surprised many with his decision to leave early for the NFL. While his knack for injuries (he also missed three games in 2011 with a neck strain) is certainly cause for concern, Roberson started 18 career games for the Gators and his fluidity, awareness and competitiveness at the catch-point are obvious. If team doctors clear him at the combine, expect Roberson's stock to steadily rise as the draft approaches.

32. Scott Crichton*, DE, Oregon State (6-3, 265): Crichton will not test as well as Clowney or Ealy, but he has been the more consistent defender over his career, racking up an eye-popping 51 tackles for loss and 22½ sacks over the past three seasons. He has an impressive initial burst, uses his hands well to defeat blocks and plays a tough, tenacious brand of football that I expect will help him outperform some of the players selected ahead of him in the NFL.

Just missed the cutHa Ha Clinton-Dix*, FS, Alabama
Ka'Deem Carey*, RB, Arizona
Bradley Roby*, CB, Ohio State
Dee Ford, DE/OLB, Auburn
Troy Niklas*, TE, Notre Dame
Xavier Su'a-Filo*, G, UCLA
Allen Robinson*, WR, Penn State
Kelcy Quarles*, DT, South Carolina
David Yankey*, G, Stanford
William Sutton, DT, Arizona State
Kelvin Benjamin*, WR, Florida State
Austin Seferian-Jenkins*, TE, Washington
Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Eastern Illinois
Morgan Moses, OT, Virginia
Jarvis Landry*, WR, LSU
Marcus Smith, OLB, Louisville
Trent Murphy, DE, Stanford
Davante Adams*, WR, Fresno State

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cloppbeast said:

How do you guys watch film of college players?

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Time Kibitzer said:

Been looking at the WRs a little more closely this past week, here's some of my thoughts on a few guys:

Going by nfldraftscout, Odell Beckham Jr. is pretty overrated right now. Guy's just too small and too slow to ever be a WR1 in the NFL imo; he's got nice WR skills and makes sharp cuts, but that's not enough for me to think he's worth being selected in the 1st or 2nd round which is where nfldraftscout currently has him. He's more of a 3rd round kinda player imo. And as someone who generally only spends their rookie picks on players with WR1 upside, Beckham's likely not gonna end up on any of my teams.

I know Jared Abbrederis is getting a lot of love at the Senior Bowl right now, but watching his college highlights I come away thinking he kind of sucks. He doesn't have much going for him besides being pretty fast. He's really skinny, is of a mediocre height, and he body catches too much. Guy's gonna have lots of trouble finding an NFL endzone; I wouldn't touch him in fantasy drafts.

I'm pretty sure I talked about him earlier in this thread, but Cody Latimer is probably my favourite sleeper prospect right now. Guy's just one smooth operator; has fantastic WR skills, catches the ball with his hands every time, wins jump balls consistently, gets behind defenders consistently, and he has good/great size at ~6'3 215lbs. He doesn't really make defenders miss and he might not have great acceleration out of cuts, but I think he's closer to a 2nd round prospect than a 4th-5th round prospect where nfldraftscout currently has him.

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Time Kibitzer said:

Yeah mostly just youtube. For some players that don't have youtube videos, ESPN has free video of every big play that happens in about 50% of all BCS conferences, so that can be useful too.

Most of the time I prefer simple highlight clips of a player instead of a full game breakdown clip from draftbreakdown. I don't have the patience to watch an oftentimes 8+ min video of each player, whereas highlight clips show all the best bits and are generally much shorter. If a player doesn't impress me in their highlight clips, they're definitely not gonna impress me in a 8+ min video of any particular game.

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ConnSKINS26 said:

Time Kibitzer said:

Yeah mostly just youtube. For some players that don't have youtube videos, ESPN has free video of every big play that happens in about 50% of all BCS conferences, so that can be useful too.

Most of the time I prefer simple highlight clips of a player instead of a full game breakdown clip from draftbreakdown. I don't have the patience to watch an oftentimes 8+ min video of each player, whereas highlight clips show all the best bits and are generally much shorter. If a player doesn't impress me in their highlight clips, they're definitely not gonna impress me in a 8+ min video of any particular game.

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I guess I'm the opposite--I don't want to be impressed by highlights, every good college player should look awesome in highlights. I like to see the flaws, the plays away from the ball, the route running, etc. in the cut-ups that show a larger portion of their body of work. I want to see the nitty gritty first down catches and drops, etc. that comprise every game but don't make a highlight video.

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