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Not exactly. I just think he'll do more with less than BJGE did.
Well after this Ellington news yesterday, he wont be much higher. In fact, i'd prefer Ellington, especially in non-ppr. He's at least going to get more touches then Gio IMO
and likely has less capable backup players as well. To me, that news about Ellington has essentially been out there all off season it was just add'l confirmation.
For redraft - agree they are close if Ellington gets 20 touches per game and Gio only gets 10-15. If they move him into the slot as some news has suggested I would probably still lean towards Gio. For dynasty Gio has the edge in talent and it is not even close. He's a better banger through the tackles, moves piles, rarely gets taken down on first contact, and makes better adjustments to the ball in the air. Net effect he can do more with less touches.
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Nobody's saying that he won't cut into Gio's numbers. We just don't believe he'll cut into them as much as BJGE did.
I know he won't get the shot over HIll but man I love the way James Wilder Jr. runs the ball...he's sooooo angry! I think Wilder is the better power back....Hill runs very upright reminds me of Darren McFadden...I don't think I saw him get his pads below a defender once.
I'm the exact opposite...I cant see any reason to have Ellington over him. There's a reason his role was as limited as it was...also a reason why he was a 25 year old 6th round draft pick....
Wow totally disagree. First off he fell to the 6th rd due to injury. And what was the reason his role was limited? All he did when he got touches was produce, so not sure what that 'reason' for a limited role is. The Daryl Richardson comparison is atrocious. Ellington is more like Charles with less speed. Elusive as can be and has that 2nd gear to break it to the house. Gio is more of a Ray Rice clone. Depends on your flavor, using the rd they got drafted in as any basis for analysis is comical. Tell that to Arian Foster who was undrafted.
So wait....you think that the Bengals are going to give Bernard less touches than they did last year?
I suspect it will be very similar. About 180 carries and 50-60 receptions. His receptions will be where he should see an uptick.
I don't know how you can read stuff like this from his OC and think that.
And since I don't think Bernard is as fragile as McFadden, I believe the former will have better numbers in such a situation as this.
He fell for MANY reasons and injuries were one...not the end all be all but just one of many reasons..
So the games against Seattle (2), Jacksonville and 9ers he "Produced every time he touched the ball"?
Yeah, I'm equally mystified by the "sky is falling/full blown timeshare" panic. If you want to make the case that Hill keeps Bernard from being a bellcow RB then, sure, he probably does. But I don't think that was ever going to be the basis of Bernard's value, at least in ppr (and if we're talking non-ppr I really wonder why Bernard would be ranked as a top tier dynasty back in the first place given his profile and skill set). Two considerations matter for dynasty purposes: 1) do you think he's legitimately talented enough to have a prominent and secure role in the offense?; and 2) do you think his specific talents translate to consistent production in your scoring system? I see him as very, very talented so I'm willing to bet (comfortably) that he retains a key ppr role in the Bengals offense and that given all of the evidence in conjunction with my confidence in his talent--Jackson's history as an OC and the likelihood of there being a larger RB-touches-pile, the team's stated desire to get him more catches/overall touches--that he's a solid top tier dynasty RB in ppr. Everything else is short-term noise that you either ride out because you believe he's that good, or you find as a premise to sell because in the end you don't think he's special. If you took a snapshot of attitudes toward McCoy or Charles earlier in their careers--guys who Bernard is supposedly never going to be now--you'd read the same dilemma.
It blows my mind that people think this.
I don't play in any non-ppr leagues so that has something to do with my own calculations for him. But nowhere did I say that Bernard should be evaluated purely as a receiver and that rushing touches are irrelevant. I also wrote in my post "If you took a snapshot of attitudes toward McCoy or Charles earlier in their careers--guys who Bernard is supposedly never going to be now--you'd read the same dilemma." So my larger point is about short-term thinking. I have no problem imagining Bernard as a possible a bellcow guy one day. But I don't see how you would want to count on that and not take into consideration that a large part of his value is bound up in combined rushing/receiving touches.
Hill is also a difference maker and you seem to be discounting him totally in your post. I think Hill is a better "running back" than Bernard, keyword "running".
If you're referring to my post I don't see how you can read that I'm "totally discounting" Hill. I have several posts in the Hill thread indicating that I think he's a very good player. My point is that Bernard should be able to retain his value despite Hill getting a portion of the RB touches, because of Bernard's role (again ppr specific) and because there should still be enough touches to go around for him to remain productive and finish higher than he did last year. I also very much disagree that Hill is a better runner than Bernard, but that's a legitimate debate.
or the cream rises.
I fully expect him to do that since power running is his specialty. However, this is looking a lot like Tiki/Jacobs and Tiki had a couple fantastic years with Jacobs being a vulture.
I'm gonna wait until Hill offically overtakes BGE before I even consider him at this point
But that said, it wouldn't surprise me either if Hue throws Gio a bone now and again near the goal line. He had four rushing TDs last year from inside the 3, and BJGE played every game.
Hard to tell what will happen. You think a coaching staff wants to hear "why did you draft Hill then??!" from the fans if Gio gets stuffed?
Fans said the same thing last year going in with BJGE and they didn't use him as a goal line back. Gio proved himself good enough in the red zone to finish his own drives in the rotation. BJGE got more touchdowns, but only because we got more rushing touchdowns on "his" drives. If you prefer stats, Gio got a total of 6 carries in the 7 BJGE touchdown drives... far from a vulture situation.
As I said, I don't think it is likely, was just curious how rare it was, or to get close. Could they both get 900, 800, etc. (and not necessarily this year, but in the future, when they settle into their roles)?
well, if we count in receiving yds, hue's 2010 oakland team rolled up about 2500 yds between it's top 2 backs, and that was mcfadden and bush.
bear in mind, tate got almost half his production in 2011 over a handful of games that foster sat, and 2008 giants was probably similar.
