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Kansas Outlaws Fee Based Fantasy Football (1 Viewer)

Gawd I hate my bass akwards state. Seems like about once every six months we need a national story to embarrass us. No evolution, the phelps clan, the adventures of Sam Brownback and Kris Kobach. Ugh.

 
Many states, not just Kansas, consider poker a game of chance and not of skill. But even if Kansas were a state that made an exception for poker, I doubt it would for fantasy football. Fantasy football is no more a game of skill than sports betting in general. I'm not sure how'd you'd interpret a typical "game of chance/scheme of chance" gambling statute to allow fantasy football and not allow guys to run book on NFL games.

 
Florida considers poker a game of skill. Then again, until recently, they only recognized one other game of skill where you could legally gamble on your own play, and that was bingo.

 
Are Fantasy Sports Leagues legal?

As with any other illegal gambling matter, if a fantasy sports league involves the elements of (1) prize, (2) chance and (3) consideration, then it is an illegal "lottery" prohibited by Kansas criminal law. See K.S.A. 21-6404. Typically, fantasy leagues involve participants ("owners" or "managers") who assemble a fantasy team via a pretend draft of professional athletes. Each manager's team then accumulates points based on their selections' weekly individual performances.

In most local fantasy sports leagues, the prize and consideration elements are not in doubt. As prizes, local leagues typically award something valuable to the top finishers. Prizes can include cash, gift certificates, televisions, or other items redeemed from tickets. Likewise, the "consideration" element is not doubtful in leagues that require managers to pay some fee to participate. Under Kansas law, consideration means "anything which is a commercial or financial advantage to the promoter or a disadvantage to any participant." K.S.A. 21-6403©. The facts of each fantasy league resolve whether the consideration element is met. Certainly, if the fantasy league requires an entry fee payment, "buy-in", "ownership fee" or required "donation," then the consideration element is satisfied.

The only element that fantasy league participants attempt to counter is that fantasy leagues are predominantly games of chance. Under Kansas law, the chance element is satisfied if it predominates over any skill involved. See Games Management, Inc. v. Owens, 233 Kan. 444, 446, 662 P.2d 260 (1983) (calling it the "dominant factor" test). We do not argue that there are some elements of skill involved in fantasy leagues. Particularly, fantasy managers must be knowledgeable of player statistics, and must execute some strategy in selecting the best players for their fantasy team. On the other hand, a manager leaves to chance a number of things, including: (1) how a drafted athlete performs in a future event; (2) whether a drafted player is injured; (3) whether the player's actual team in a given week executes a game plan that fits the player's talents; whether the coach calls plays that favor the player; and (4) how opponents of the actual player (who may be drafted by another manager) actually play. For those reasons, chance predominates over skill in fantasy sports leagues.

In short, if a fantasy sports league has a buy-in (no matter what it is called) for its managers and gives a prize, then all three elements of an illegal lottery are satisfied. The Florida Attorney General's office reached the same conclusion in its formal opinion AGO91-03.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Many states, not just Kansas, consider poker a game of chance and not of skill. But even if Kansas were a state that made an exception for poker, I doubt it would for fantasy football. Fantasy football is no more a game of skill than sports betting in general. I'm not sure how'd you'd interpret a typical "game of chance/scheme of chance" gambling statute to allow fantasy football and not allow guys to run book on NFL games.
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Totally disagree.My four year old niece has a decent chance of beating me picking games against the spread randomly. She would have an extremely small chance of beating me in fantasy football if she picked players randomly.

 
Wait... Kansas is uncool? Color me shocked.

A "faux" "conservative" approach whereby gov't should stay out of all things except those which reinforce the beliefs of one segment of society, the "Kansas Majority." No better example of how the "small government" party has been overrun by idiots.

If there is any fair basis of right vs wrong, it may be just to do the opposite of Kansas. Gotta be right 90%+ going that way.

 
Can Chet help the FBG's out? Maybe buy a ranch there and fight this all the way to the SCOTUS? Otis and Henry Ford can first chair and Woz and the others can file Amicus Briefs.

Dodds, Kutta and his 4 yo niece can be the star witnesses.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Many states, not just Kansas, consider poker a game of chance and not of skill. But even if Kansas were a state that made an exception for poker, I doubt it would for fantasy football. Fantasy football is no more a game of skill than sports betting in general. I'm not sure how'd you'd interpret a typical "game of chance/scheme of chance" gambling statute to allow fantasy football and not allow guys to run book on NFL games.
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Of course it's a game of skill. While like any game there is luck involved the same people consistently place well and win leagues. That isn't luck. Now certainly a player can get hurt and hurt or help a team and that is luck. But no more luck than what card falls next.

 
Koya said:
Wait... Kansas is uncool? Color me shocked.

A "faux" "conservative" approach whereby gov't should stay out of all things except those which reinforce the beliefs of one segment of society, the "Kansas Majority." No better example of how the "small government" party has been overrun by idiots.

If there is any fair basis of right vs wrong, it may be just to do the opposite of Kansas. Gotta be right 90%+ going that way.
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Hint: there are big government conservatives.
 
Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
LINK

Kansas residents: Beware which fantasy sports leagues you enter this fall.

The Kansas Racing and Gaming Commission has declared some fantasy sports leagues as illegal lotteries, Forbes reports.

A number of pay-to-enter fantasy football contests run by Yahoo, CBS, ESPN, theNational Football League and others are likely on the wrong side of the commission's latest advice
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I think the problem here is that they conclude it's gambling because it's a lottery.

It's not a lottery, so it's not gambling. Now maybe it's arguably gambling for other reasons but it's not a lottery. - I'm guessing these people know nothing about FF. and have never played it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
otello said:
Are Fantasy Sports Leagues legal?

As with any other illegal gambling matter, if a fantasy sports league involves the elements of (1) prize, (2) chance and (3) consideration, then it is an illegal "lottery" prohibited by Kansas criminal law. See K.S.A. 21-6404. Typically, fantasy leagues involve participants ("owners" or "managers") who assemble a fantasy team via a pretend draft of professional athletes. Each manager's team then accumulates points based on their selections' weekly individual performances.

In most local fantasy sports leagues, the prize and consideration elements are not in doubt. As prizes, local leagues typically award something valuable to the top finishers. Prizes can include cash, gift certificates, televisions, or other items redeemed from tickets. Likewise, the "consideration" element is not doubtful in leagues that require managers to pay some fee to participate. Under Kansas law, consideration means "anything which is a commercial or financial advantage to the promoter or a disadvantage to any participant." K.S.A. 21-6403©. The facts of each fantasy league resolve whether the consideration element is met. Certainly, if the fantasy league requires an entry fee payment, "buy-in", "ownership fee" or required "donation," then the consideration element is satisfied.

The only element that fantasy league participants attempt to counter is that fantasy leagues are predominantly games of chance. Under Kansas law, the chance element is satisfied if it predominates over any skill involved. See Games Management, Inc. v. Owens, 233 Kan. 444, 446, 662 P.2d 260 (1983) (calling it the "dominant factor" test). We do not argue that there are some elements of skill involved in fantasy leagues. Particularly, fantasy managers must be knowledgeable of player statistics, and must execute some strategy in selecting the best players for their fantasy team. On the other hand, a manager leaves to chance a number of things, including: (1) how a drafted athlete performs in a future event; (2) whether a drafted player is injured; (3) whether the player's actual team in a given week executes a game plan that fits the player's talents; whether the coach calls plays that favor the player; and (4) how opponents of the actual player (who may be drafted by another manager) actually play. For those reasons, chance predominates over skill in fantasy sports leagues.

In short, if a fantasy sports league has a buy-in (no matter what it is called) for its managers and gives a prize, then all three elements of an illegal lottery are satisfied. The Florida Attorney General's office reached the same conclusion in its formal opinion AGO91-03.
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This shows a complete lack of understanding as to how fantasy football works. All of these points definitely favor the better prepared, better informed players. From a simpletons viewpoint, maybe not so much. But for anyone that actually plays the game at a level above an office league where the software drafts for you, absolutely. There is "chance" in everything. But this is far from random. I think the easiest way to see this would be to ask can you get better by learning how to play? And the answer is yes. Why do the same players consistently win money? Chance? Is this the same skill level as chess? No. But skill dominates over chance.

And based on their definition I don't know how they can allow their residents to invest in the stock market. So much of that is out of their control.

 
otello said:
Are Fantasy Sports Leagues legal?

As with any other illegal gambling matter, if a fantasy sports league involves the elements of (1) prize, (2) chance and (3) consideration, then it is an illegal "lottery" prohibited by Kansas criminal law. See K.S.A. 21-6404. Typically, fantasy leagues involve participants ("owners" or "managers") who assemble a fantasy team via a pretend draft of professional athletes. Each manager's team then accumulates points based on their selections' weekly individual performances.

In most local fantasy sports leagues, the prize and consideration elements are not in doubt. As prizes, local leagues typically award something valuable to the top finishers. Prizes can include cash, gift certificates, televisions, or other items redeemed from tickets. Likewise, the "consideration" element is not doubtful in leagues that require managers to pay some fee to participate. Under Kansas law, consideration means "anything which is a commercial or financial advantage to the promoter or a disadvantage to any participant." K.S.A. 21-6403©. The facts of each fantasy league resolve whether the consideration element is met. Certainly, if the fantasy league requires an entry fee payment, "buy-in", "ownership fee" or required "donation," then the consideration element is satisfied.

The only element that fantasy league participants attempt to counter is that fantasy leagues are predominantly games of chance. Under Kansas law, the chance element is satisfied if it predominates over any skill involved. See Games Management, Inc. v. Owens, 233 Kan. 444, 446, 662 P.2d 260 (1983) (calling it the "dominant factor" test). We do not argue that there are some elements of skill involved in fantasy leagues. Particularly, fantasy managers must be knowledgeable of player statistics, and must execute some strategy in selecting the best players for their fantasy team. On the other hand, a manager leaves to chance a number of things, including: (1) how a drafted athlete performs in a future event; (2) whether a drafted player is injured; (3) whether the player's actual team in a given week executes a game plan that fits the player's talents; whether the coach calls plays that favor the player; and (4) how opponents of the actual player (who may be drafted by another manager) actually play. For those reasons, chance predominates over skill in fantasy sports leagues.

In short, if a fantasy sports league has a buy-in (no matter what it is called) for its managers and gives a prize, then all three elements of an illegal lottery are satisfied. The Florida Attorney General's office reached the same conclusion in its formal opinion AGO91-03.
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Seems like this analysis could work just as well for the stock market.

 
Thorn said:
otello said:
Are Fantasy Sports Leagues legal?

As with any other illegal gambling matter, if a fantasy sports league involves the elements of (1) prize, (2) chance and (3) consideration, then it is an illegal "lottery" prohibited by Kansas criminal law. See K.S.A. 21-6404. Typically, fantasy leagues involve participants ("owners" or "managers") who assemble a fantasy team via a pretend draft of professional athletes. Each manager's team then accumulates points based on their selections' weekly individual performances.

In most local fantasy sports leagues, the prize and consideration elements are not in doubt. As prizes, local leagues typically award something valuable to the top finishers. Prizes can include cash, gift certificates, televisions, or other items redeemed from tickets. Likewise, the "consideration" element is not doubtful in leagues that require managers to pay some fee to participate. Under Kansas law, consideration means "anything which is a commercial or financial advantage to the promoter or a disadvantage to any participant." K.S.A. 21-6403©. The facts of each fantasy league resolve whether the consideration element is met. Certainly, if the fantasy league requires an entry fee payment, "buy-in", "ownership fee" or required "donation," then the consideration element is satisfied.

The only element that fantasy league participants attempt to counter is that fantasy leagues are predominantly games of chance. Under Kansas law, the chance element is satisfied if it predominates over any skill involved. See Games Management, Inc. v. Owens, 233 Kan. 444, 446, 662 P.2d 260 (1983) (calling it the "dominant factor" test). We do not argue that there are some elements of skill involved in fantasy leagues. Particularly, fantasy managers must be knowledgeable of player statistics, and must execute some strategy in selecting the best players for their fantasy team. On the other hand, a manager leaves to chance a number of things, including: (1) how a drafted athlete performs in a future event; (2) whether a drafted player is injured; (3) whether the player's actual team in a given week executes a game plan that fits the player's talents; whether the coach calls plays that favor the player; and (4) how opponents of the actual player (who may be drafted by another manager) actually play. For those reasons, chance predominates over skill in fantasy sports leagues.

In short, if a fantasy sports league has a buy-in (no matter what it is called) for its managers and gives a prize, then all three elements of an illegal lottery are satisfied. The Florida Attorney General's office reached the same conclusion in its formal opinion AGO91-03.
Click to expand...
Seems like this analysis could work just as well for the stock market.
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Or poker.
 
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