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Mock Draft with Bloom, Waldman, Bramel at 10am 08/01/2011 (1 Viewer)

Good job holding up the draft Waldman.

Wrong forum. 11 defensive starters, to only 7 offensive starters.

Move to IDP IMO.

 
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Was considering renewing my subscription. Not a compelling argument there.

 
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TEs also get 1.5 times the points for receiving yardage, in addition to 1.5 points per reception vs. 1 PPR for RB and WR.

 
Even if Witten is #1 in PoRV, isn't it likely he would have been there on the turn? He's usually the 4th or 5th TE off the board.

 
This is not a mock draft. It's a league with a lineup and scoring system meant to force you to consider multiple positions and strategies at any point in the draft.

Before you mock Waldman's TE pick as ludicrous, take a closer look at the league parameters. You won't, and I think shouldn't, see the usual run of RBs, then WRs, then a handful of TEs and QBs in the first 2-3 rounds here. I wouldn't have gone TE with the 1.01, but the top TEs must be under consideration somewhere in the first round. With the relative values, if you like the top TE over the top RB or DE or WR or LB, it's an easily defensible pick.

And I'm sure Matt will.

 
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This is not a mock draft. It's a league with a lineup and scoring system meant to force you to consider multiple positions and strategies at any point in the draft.Before you mock Waldman's TE pick as ludicrous, take a closer look at the league parameters. You won't, and I think shouldn't, see the usual run of RBs, then WRs, then a handful of TEs and QBs in the first 2-3 rounds here. I wouldn't have gone TE with the 1.01, but the top TEs must be under consideration somewhere in the first round. With the relative values, if you like the top TE over the top RB or DE or WR or LB, it's an easily defensible pick.And I'm sure Matt will.
:goodposting: I've contested several leagues against Matt, and he is always tough as nails. If he thinks Witten is worth 1.01 in this scoring paradigm, I can assure you that the math works out given Matt's projections. Also, there is a reason his nickname is "Wildman" - Matt thinks outside the box, and isn't concerned with taking "safe" picks - he plays to win. :2cents:
 
You won't, and I think shouldn't, see the usual run of RBs, then WRs, then a handful of TEs and QBs in the first 2-3 rounds here.
Really?Selection Date/Time Comments

1.01 1. Witten, Jason DAL TE

1.02 2. Foster, Arian HOU RB

1.03 3. Peterson, Adrian MIN RB

1.04 4. Johnson, Chris TEN RB

 
You won't, and I think shouldn't, see the usual run of RBs, then WRs, then a handful of TEs and QBs in the first 2-3 rounds here.
Really?Selection Date/Time Comments

1.01 1. Witten, Jason DAL TE

1.02 2. Foster, Arian HOU RB

1.03 3. Peterson, Adrian MIN RB

1.04 4. Johnson, Chris TEN RB
I'm suggesting that instead of seeing the second tier RBs go at the end of the first round and the second tier WRs go throughout the 3rd round, you're going to see TEs, DEs, a LB or three, and a DT mixed in. In most leagues with combined offense-IDP lineups, you wouldn't (and shouldn't) see that occur.My draft board has six RBs in the top ten, but only about ten carry grades in the top four rounds. The second tier receivers fit the same profile, fewer carry higher grades. I draft in tiers, so that's somewhat fluid, but I'll be very surprised. if I have two backs and a receiver on my roster through three rounds.

I've got the 1.06 pick and I'm going to have a tough decision between three different positions.

 
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This is very interesting--probably the most detailed without being ridiculous attempt at fully balanced scoring across positions I've seen. QB hits are the only stat that feel a little forced, though I suppose they're basically just passes defended for the front 7. LBs are hyper-balanced, with your 45 tackle/8 sack rush OLBs having more value than I've seen them have in any other league.

90/1000/6 from a TE is the same as 100/1300/10 from a receiver, or 1800 total yards, 12 TDs, and 35 receptions from a running back. I can see the justification for Witten, even it is still an eye-catching choice.

 
You won't, and I think shouldn't, see the usual run of RBs, then WRs, then a handful of TEs and QBs in the first 2-3 rounds here.
Really?Selection Date/Time Comments

1.01 1. Witten, Jason DAL TE

1.02 2. Foster, Arian HOU RB

1.03 3. Peterson, Adrian MIN RB

1.04 4. Johnson, Chris TEN RB
I'm suggesting that instead of seeing the second tier RBs go at the end of the first round and the second tier WRs go throughout the 3rd round, you're going to see TEs, DEs, a LB or three, and a DT mixed in. In most leagues with combined offense-IDP lineups, you wouldn't (and shouldn't) see that occur.My draft board has six RBs in the top ten, but only about ten carry grades in the top four rounds. The second tier receivers fit the same profile, fewer carry higher grades. I draft in tiers, so that's somewhat fluid, but I'll be very surprised. if I have two backs and a receiver on my roster through three rounds.

I've got the 1.06 pick and I'm going to have a tough decision between three different positions.
1.06 is a tough spot for you. If you earmarked it for a top 1-2 TE wiith this system you'll have people saying you did it to bail out Waldman.
 
You won't, and I think shouldn't, see the usual run of RBs, then WRs, then a handful of TEs and QBs in the first 2-3 rounds here.
Really?Selection Date/Time Comments

1.01 1. Witten, Jason DAL TE

1.02 2. Foster, Arian HOU RB

1.03 3. Peterson, Adrian MIN RB

1.04 4. Johnson, Chris TEN RB
I'm suggesting that instead of seeing the second tier RBs go at the end of the first round and the second tier WRs go throughout the 3rd round, you're going to see TEs, DEs, a LB or three, and a DT mixed in. In most leagues with combined offense-IDP lineups, you wouldn't (and shouldn't) see that occur.My draft board has six RBs in the top ten, but only about ten carry grades in the top four rounds. The second tier receivers fit the same profile, fewer carry higher grades. I draft in tiers, so that's somewhat fluid, but I'll be very surprised. if I have two backs and a receiver on my roster through three rounds.

I've got the 1.06 pick and I'm going to have a tough decision between three different positions.
1.06 is a tough spot for you. If you earmarked it for a top 1-2 TE wiith this system you'll have people saying you did it to bail out Waldman.
I am not considering TE here. I very well might in Round 2, however.
 
I dunno, you can only start 1 RB, it seems to me you want one of the top tier RBs. Yeah TE gets bumped up, relative TE value doesn't. The tier 1 TE pool is far deeper than the pool of bell cow RBs.

I mean, trade back if you want to go TE (or can't you trade?)

Then, even when you go TE, is Witten really the first TE off the board? I'd think Gates in redraft.

 
I remember a similar thread last year (not sure which staffer was in the draft) but it was the same thing where the staffer was ripped for his picks in an oddball scoring system league. I forget the exact record but toward the end of the year the staffer was nearly or was undefeated and absolutely crushed the league. To make snap judgements based on one pick, let alone an entire draft is silly...you have to watch how it plays out but ultimately it's like the NFL draft or free agency, everyone has their "winners and losers" but they are rarely right in the end.

I think Waldman is a terrific talent evaluator and he knows his stuff much moreso than 99% of the posters on here.

 
it's gotta be Suh right now if it is a position scarcity league enough to make a TE go 1st

he's got the most gap between the best and second-best at any position in NFL



what i'm waiting for is a scoring system that make Revis and Asomugha etc the top CB choices, but that may be impossible ... surely there is some measurable stat seeing as now we have QB Hits as a stat

 
I remember a similar thread last year (not sure which staffer was in the draft) but it was the same thing where the staffer was ripped for his picks in an oddball scoring system league. I forget the exact record but toward the end of the year the staffer was nearly or was undefeated and absolutely crushed the league.
This was someone taking Rodgers and Gonzo with his first 2 picks a couple years ago. So glad my brain stores such useful information.
 
This cracks me up. Same crew of folks who reamed one of our staffers for taking Aaron Rodgers in the first round of a draft when Rodgers became the top QB that year. If you don't read the scoring rules I understand why you'd think Witten was a crazy pick. Even if you do there are still legitimate questions. Here's some food for thought:

- Witten was the No.3 overall player in last year's scoring system for this league. He was also very consistent week to week.

- The rate of turnover of RBs from year to year in the top 12 is about 65%. It's a coin flip for them returning to the top 24 overall.

- The rate of turnover of TEs from year to year in the top 12 is in the 40 percent range.

- The rate of turnover of WRs from year to year in the top 12 is slightly better than RBs, not as good as TEs.

I've studied this rate at 3 years, 5 years, and 10 years. It will be in my forthcoming Upside Down Strategy article.

Witten in this league might be like taking Randy Moss or Jerry Rice at his peak form in a PPR league that starts 3-4 WRs to 1-2 RBs. The reason I chose Witten over Gates was that plantar fascia issue. While Gates feels great and might be the better player if he stays healthy, the risk of him missing 3-4 games this year seems pretty high to me. Finley and Clark could be nice options but Witten is younger than Clark and in an offense where I think he'll continue to be consistently excellent. I haven't updated my TE rankings this week, but Gates will no longer be my top TE.

I knew I wouldn't get the TE I wanted in round two and the defensive players I considered seemed too inconsistent. I also feel good about finding quality running backs later.

Controversial pick. I guess so. Thought you'd want some idea of my thought process.

 
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it's gotta be Suh right now if it is a position scarcity league enough to make a TE go 1st

he's got the most gap between the best and second-best at any position in NFL



what i'm waiting for is a scoring system that make Revis and Asomugha etc the top CB choices, but that may be impossible ... surely there is some measurable stat seeing as now we have QB Hits as a stat
DT (Suh) is one of the three positions in the mix for me.There's no good way to value those cover corners. Even when you prioritize PD and INT and INT return yards over tackles, it's hard to elevate a player that isn't targeted. Things like yards per attempt allowed or awarding points for fewer times targeted just aren't (yet) practical for fantasy leagues. It's the biggest blind spot for IDP leagues.

 
I'm not going to pile on Waldman but I have found a person that a good % of the time I am on the polar opposite of in POV about a player and or their draft position.

 
I think you are failing to consider the impact that a healthy Miles Austin and presumably better Dez Bryant will have on Witten's numbers. One reason Witten got so many receptions was because those two guys were not what they will be this year. I'd be very surprised if Witten comes close to either his receptions or TD numbers from last year.

 
I dunno, you can only start 1 RB, it seems to me you want one of the top tier RBs. Yeah TE gets bumped up, relative TE value doesn't. The tier 1 TE pool is far deeper than the pool of bell cow RBs.

I mean, trade back if you want to go TE (or can't you trade?)

Then, even when you go TE, is Witten really the first TE off the board? I'd think Gates in redraft.
First of all, the bolded part is dead wrong. If you can only start 1 RB, the relative value of the studs goes down. The math is complicated, but just compare 1QB and 2QB leagues for an example of this principle. Second, this format bumps the value of high-yardage TEs, so tier 1 probably splits into at least two tiers. This is especially true because the multipliers magnify the differences between individual players' values.

 
There's thinking outside the box, and then there's silly. Sorry Matt, Witten at 1.1 was silly, regardless of scoring system. When there are so few 'feature' RBs in fantasy ball, if you have a chance at one, you take it, then be 'sneaky' with your 2nd rounder if you want to attract attention. But then again, I'm not an expert.

 
There's thinking outside the box, and then there's silly. Sorry Matt, Witten at 1.1 was silly, regardless of scoring system. When there are so few 'feature' RBs in fantasy ball, if you have a chance at one, you take it, then be 'sneaky' with your 2nd rounder if you want to attract attention. But then again, I'm not an expert.
not sure if you read Matt's post, if you did you should read it again.
 
There's thinking outside the box, and then there's silly. Sorry Matt, Witten at 1.1 was silly, regardless of scoring system. When there are so few 'feature' RBs in fantasy ball, if you have a chance at one, you take it, then be 'sneaky' with your 2nd rounder if you want to attract attention. But then again, I'm not an expert.
not sure if you read Matt's post, if you did you should read it again.
I did. And I still think it was silly. What am I missing?
 
I think you are failing to consider the impact that a healthy Miles Austin and presumably better Dez Bryant will have on Witten's numbers. One reason Witten got so many receptions was because those two guys were not what they will be this year. I'd be very surprised if Witten comes close to either his receptions or TD numbers from last year.
Not only that but 7 or 8 of his 9 TDs last season came from Kitna. He had 4 TDs in 2008 and 2 TDs in 2009 with Romo.
 
I think you are failing to consider the impact that a healthy Miles Austin and presumably better Dez Bryant will have on Witten's numbers. One reason Witten got so many receptions was because those two guys were not what they will be this year. I'd be very surprised if Witten comes close to either his receptions or TD numbers from last year.
With you all the way Fester EXCEPT the Dallas defense is not getting better so they may find themselves in a lot of shootouts. They have a hit n miss secondary and then they have lost some pieces as well in the front 7. Romo stays healthy and I see him passing for a career high. There might be room for Austin to grab 1000/8TD, Dez to come close to 1,000 and Witten to still post fairly strong numbers.
 
I think you are failing to consider the impact that a healthy Miles Austin and presumably better Dez Bryant will have on Witten's numbers. One reason Witten got so many receptions was because those two guys were not what they will be this year. I'd be very surprised if Witten comes close to either his receptions or TD numbers from last year.
Receptions and Yards are more the thing in this league. Witten past four years with/without Austin and Romo starting 9, 16, 13, 16 games past four years: Witten 94-1002-9, 94-1030-2, 81-952-4, 96-1145-7.
 
There's thinking outside the box, and then there's silly. Sorry Matt, Witten at 1.1 was silly, regardless of scoring system. When there are so few 'feature' RBs in fantasy ball, if you have a chance at one, you take it, then be 'sneaky' with your 2nd rounder if you want to attract attention. But then again, I'm not an expert.
not sure if you read Matt's post, if you did you should read it again.
I did. And I still think it was silly. What am I missing?
that Witten was the #3 overall player in the league and the position turnover analysis. I think his explanation is very rational and methodical. I can possibly see debating a different TE but based on the scoring system TE's are valuable and he's looking for a consistent and reliable one and while Gates would fit the bill ordinarily his injury history knocked him down.
 
- Witten was the No.3 overall player in last year's scoring system for this league. He was also very consistent week to week. Witten in this league might be like taking Randy Moss or Jerry Rice at his peak form in a PPR league that starts 3-4 WRs to 1-2 RBs. The reason I chose Witten over Gates was that plantar fascia issue.
Matt,Are you at all concerned with Witten's mediocre start with Romo under center for the first six games?Here is his gamelog:1 09/12/10 @WAS 3 27 0 2 09/19/10 CHI 5 51 0 3 09/26/10 @HOU 7 56 0 4* // - - - - - 5 10/10/10 TEN 5 84 1 6 10/17/10 @MIN 3 52 0
 
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- Witten was the No.3 overall player in last year's scoring system for this league. He was also very consistent week to week. - The rate of turnover of RBs from year to year in the top 12 is about 65%. It's a coin flip for them returning to the top 24 overall.

- The rate of turnover of TEs from year to year in the top 12 is in the 40 percent range.

- The rate of turnover of WRs from year to year in the top 12 is slightly better than RBs, not as good as TEs.
With all due respect, Matt, if Romo hadn't been injured, I doubt you would have seen those numbers last year. Kitna (for whatever reason) had a poor rapport with Austin and Witten was the beneficiary. For that reason, I view last year's stats as an anomaly or outlier.
 
overall leaders in this league's scoring format...

http://football.myfantasyleague.com/2011/options?L=65781&O=08

i have never seen a league this balanced in scoring between offense and defense (if anything, maybe skewed to the latter, based on distribution at the top), but i applaud it... five dynasty leagues i'm in all IDP... in the one i participated in the formation of, when setting up league scoring parameters, consciously tried to make defense more close in value in relation to offense, to expand options for team architecting, ways to win, etc...

giving TE 1.5 pts per reception (for first time in a league i had participated in), it was a revelation how much more valuable it made TE relative to other skill positions, compared to more conventional scoring leagues...

if you haven't ever participated in a league like this, or familiarized yourself with scoring system, hard to wrap your mind around how valuable blue chip, elite TEs are in this scoring format... get the right one in a good year, possible to get overall scoring leader at a non-QB position... lets see what kind of TEs are available at the 2/3 turn.

* norton was the staffer crucified last year

 
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There's thinking outside the box, and then there's silly. Sorry Matt, Witten at 1.1 was silly, regardless of scoring system. When there are so few 'feature' RBs in fantasy ball, if you have a chance at one, you take it, then be 'sneaky' with your 2nd rounder if you want to attract attention. But then again, I'm not an expert.
not sure if you read Matt's post, if you did you should read it again.
I did. And I still think it was silly. What am I missing?
I will reserve judgement until I see Matt 2nd pick. There are a lots of RBs that aren't considered top tier but will still get the lions share of carries. (I don't even know why I am commenting since it a mock draft. It not like it counts for anything.)
 
I think you are failing to consider the impact that a healthy Miles Austin and presumably better Dez Bryant will have on Witten's numbers. One reason Witten got so many receptions was because those two guys were not what they will be this year. I'd be very surprised if Witten comes close to either his receptions or TD numbers from last year.
Receptions and Yards are more the thing in this league. Witten past four years with/without Austin and Romo starting 9, 16, 13, 16 games past four years: Witten 94-1002-9, 94-1030-2, 81-952-4, 96-1145-7.
See above. I'll take four years over six games last year.
 
There's thinking outside the box, and then there's silly. Sorry Matt, Witten at 1.1 was silly, regardless of scoring system. When there are so few 'feature' RBs in fantasy ball, if you have a chance at one, you take it, then be 'sneaky' with your 2nd rounder if you want to attract attention. But then again, I'm not an expert.
not sure if you read Matt's post, if you did you should read it again.
I did. And I still think it was silly. What am I missing?
that Witten was the #3 overall player in the league and the position turnover analysis. I think his explanation is very rational and methodical. I can possibly see debating a different TE but based on the scoring system TE's are valuable and he's looking for a consistent and reliable one and while Gates would fit the bill ordinarily his injury history knocked him down.
Whether it works out or not, I appreciate you understand the logic behind it. Because it is pretty logical.
 
I was a little surprised at the pick at first, and I would have made a different pick myself but looking at the scoring system and reading Matt's thoughtful and careful analysis, I don't think it is an unreasonable pick either. Know your scoring system and a big part of fantasy football is taking some calculated risks based on your beliefs in your analysis and player projections.

 

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