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#1 duaneok66

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 07:07 AM

This is the first draft I have followed really closely. A month ago, it seemed like Tannehill was a a borderline first pick (correct me if I am wrong). Now, speculation is that he might go in the top 5. Does he wattant a top 5 pick? I know supply and demand usually inflates the value of QB - but is he a possible franchise QB??



#2 eakfootball

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 07:52 AM

Not a top 5 pick, but I couldn't blame a team for taking him after the top 10. If he works out, he could become a franchise QB, and a team with a big question mark at QB needs to take that risk.

#3 Bracie Smathers

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:02 AM

Don't worry Duane. If the Browns didn't overpay for RG III they won't overpay for Tannehill. Heckertt sees value in the #4 pick, he'll get a solid player or he'll be able to pull off another trade-down. I felt Holmgren really wanted Barkley. If they make a trade-down they might want to get extra picks in next year's draft so they will have ammo to make a move for Barkley.

#4 Boone22

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:04 AM

Where would he fall in terms of talent compared to last years rookie QBs. Are we talking Locker or Ponder level or better than that?
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#5 coolnerd

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:12 AM

Where would he fall in terms of talent compared to last years rookie QBs. Are we talking Locker or Ponder level or better than that?

I think Ponder is a pretty good comparison. He has similair athelteic ability and as I remember about the same level of arm strength and general playing style. Obviously, I would put the upside about the same also.

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#6 Bracie Smathers

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:20 AM

Where would he fall in terms of talent compared to last years rookie QBs. Are we talking Locker or Ponder level or better than that?

Whoo boy, tough to make a comparison. Tannehill has a good arm and he's not just mobile he was a WR so when he takes off he isn't looking to hook slide he hurts a defense if he sees a seam. However, he's really raw. He played WR and that could have gotten him in some bad habits. I'm not sure of his ability to pre-snap read defenses or if he can go deep in his reads if his primary and terciary WRs are covered or how he comes off his reads if everyone is covered and he has to hang in the pocket to buy time, does he continue to look downfield or does he panic and look for a seam to run? Most big plays come when a QB is able to hang in the pocket and allow his receivers to work free, that is when a busted play can turn into a big play. I have no clue about his intangibles or leadership but he worked hard and made the move to WR when the coaches asked him and he didn't complain. Raw skills that intrigue but tough to make comparisons. If you look at his tape you can see the raw skills, good arm and fantastic mobility.

#7 Andy Dufresne

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:22 AM

Good enough to go to the Dolphins at #9.

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#8 Donnybrook

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:35 AM

Good enough to go to the Dolphins at #9.

Maybe good enough to start a bidding war. I mean if Seattle and Arizona could start a bidding war over clipboard Jesus, then what will they do for Tannehill.

#9 Bracie Smathers

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:40 AM

Good enough to go to the Dolphins at #9.

Maybe good enough to start a bidding war. I mean if Seattle and Arizona could start a bidding war over clipboard Jesus, then what will they do for Tannehill.

LOL, I don't know about that. Washington just paid a king's ransom but Tannenhill isn't RG III. I don't think RG III is Cam Newton and I think that in the back of many people's minds the image of Cam Newton got super-imposed on Robert Griffin's face. I luv RG III but he's not Cam Newton and I don't see him throwing for 400 yards in his first two rookie games or busting Peyton Manning's rookie passing record. Ryan Tannenhill isn't in RG III's neighborhood, oh and Donny. Minnesota isn't going to be able to parlay Washington's deal into a mega deal for Tannehill. Peyton Manning and Matt Flynn are going somewhere. Tannenhill is probably a conselation prize.

#10 Donnybrook

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:50 AM

Ryan Tannenhill isn't in RG III's neighborhood, oh and Donny. Minnesota isn't going to be able to parlay Washington's deal into a mega deal for Tannehill. Peyton Manning and Matt Flynn are going somewhere. Tannenhill is probably a conselation prize.

I know I am just stirring the pot a little. I will be happy if Minnesota takes Kalil and doesn't look back. I like Tannehill as a project in Miami because I think it is a good situation for him. I have the unpopular opinion that Matt Moore deserves to start for another year and Tannehill needs to sit for a year.

#11 Bracie Smathers

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:54 AM

Ryan Tannenhill isn't in RG III's neighborhood, oh and Donny. Minnesota isn't going to be able to parlay Washington's deal into a mega deal for Tannehill. Peyton Manning and Matt Flynn are going somewhere. Tannenhill is probably a conselation prize.

I know I am just stirring the pot a little. I will be happy if Minnesota takes Kalil and doesn't look back. I like Tannehill as a project in Miami because I think it is a good situation for him. I have the unpopular opinion that Matt Moore deserves to start for another year and Tannehill needs to sit for a year.

Yeah I understand but Kalil looks like a blue-chip stud, you and Ponder and AdP and Gerhart will love him. First three picks appear to be already made, Luck, RG III, and Kalil. If anyone is interested in moviing up it looks like Cleveland is in the driver's seat right now.

#12 Area51Inhabitant

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 10:18 AM

If Tannehill goes that high, it'll be another example of a so-so college qb going way higher than his performance on the field dictates he should go. Way to high for a guy who's a 2-3 year project guy at best.

Edited by Area51Inhabitant, 10 March 2012 - 10:24 AM.


#13 Time Kibitzer

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 01:23 PM

If Tannehill goes that high, it'll be another example of a so-so college qb going way higher than his performance on the field dictates he should go. Way to high for a guy who's a 2-3 year project guy at best.

Agreed. There's nothing in his stats from last year that suggest he should be a top 10 pick in the NFL. If anything, he should be a round 3 pick at the earliest. And personally, if I was an NFL GM I probably wouldn't draft him til the 6th round if at all. Firstly, he had one of the best WR combos in the country to throw to in Jeff Fuller and Ryan Swope; and he also had 2 future NFL RBs on his team to keep defenses honest. Second, the Big 12 was probably the worst conference in the FBS when it comes to defense. 3 of the bottom 7 defenses FBS defenses in the country came from the Big 12 (Kansas, Baylor, Texas Tech.). Third, considering the quality of his teammates and the poor opposition Tannehill faced, his stats last year are pretty bad, particularly against teams with any semblance of a defense. Against the only 6 teams who ranked in the top 100 of 120 in the FBS in defense who Tannehill faced (Texas-14th, Arkansas-51st, Missouri-61st, Oklahoma-62nd, Kansas State-74th, Iowa State-99th), his stats are as follows: 163 completions, 290 attempts, 56.2% completions, 1640 passing yards (avg. of 273 per game, median of 255), Yards-per-attempt of 5.66 (!!very ugly!!), TD/INT ratio of 12/9. Those numbers are terrible considering he's playing in an offense that should inflate numbers, his offensive teammates are significantly above average, and besides Texas and maybe Arkansas, those other defenses aren't very good, especially his YPA. Granted, I don't think I even watched Tannehill play a whole game last season, so I'm sure some of you will argue that one must watch a QB play to make any judgement on him, but in my opinion those stats are so bad he doesn't deserve to be watched if I'm looking to scout QBs who deserve to be taken in the early rounds.

Edited by Time Kibitzer, 10 March 2012 - 01:24 PM.


#14 duaneok66

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:35 PM

now NFL Network is saying that teams will have to move into the top 10 to get Tannehill?? So now he's a QB that you have to trade extra picks to get??

#15 duaneok66

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:40 PM

how many games has he started at QB ??

#16 Andy Dufresne

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:48 PM

how many games has he started at QB ??

19. Which is three more than Mark Sanchez did at USC.

Edited by Andy Dufresne, 12 March 2012 - 02:49 PM.

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#17 duaneok66

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:49 PM

how many games has he started at QB ??

20. Which is four more than Mark Sanchez did at USC.

not a fan of mark Sanchez. And that is one of the reasons why.

#18 Andy Dufresne

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:50 PM

how many games has he started at QB ??

20. Which is four more than Mark Sanchez did at USC.

not a fan of mark Sanchez. And that is one of the reasons why.

A totally legitimate reason.

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#19 coolnerd

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:54 PM

how many games has he started at QB ??

He started a year and half at Texas A & M. When he was a starting WR, he was still considered the top back-up QB and did much of the Qb work. Also, another high GPA guy like Luck and Griffin, so there is good hope that learning is not issue.

Edited by coolnerd, 12 March 2012 - 02:55 PM.

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#20 Zimm

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:01 PM

I really don't see him going top 10 unless Miami strikes out with Manning and Flynn. Seattle could reach on him and i don't see that as a fit because Tannehill is the same type of project QB that last years C.Kaepernick was its just this year the QB class is very thin.

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#21 Warpig

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:42 AM

If Tannehill goes that high, it'll be another example of a so-so college qb going way higher than his performance on the field dictates he should go. Way to high for a guy who's a 2-3 year project guy at best.

Agreed. There's nothing in his stats from last year that suggest he should be a top 10 pick in the NFL. If anything, he should be a round 3 pick at the earliest. And personally, if I was an NFL GM I probably wouldn't draft him til the 6th round if at all. Firstly, he had one of the best WR combos in the country to throw to in Jeff Fuller and Ryan Swope; and he also had 2 future NFL RBs on his team to keep defenses honest. Second, the Big 12 was probably the worst conference in the FBS when it comes to defense. 3 of the bottom 7 defenses FBS defenses in the country came from the Big 12 (Kansas, Baylor, Texas Tech.). Third, considering the quality of his teammates and the poor opposition Tannehill faced, his stats last year are pretty bad, particularly against teams with any semblance of a defense. Against the only 6 teams who ranked in the top 100 of 120 in the FBS in defense who Tannehill faced (Texas-14th, Arkansas-51st, Missouri-61st, Oklahoma-62nd, Kansas State-74th, Iowa State-99th), his stats are as follows: 163 completions, 290 attempts, 56.2% completions, 1640 passing yards (avg. of 273 per game, median of 255), Yards-per-attempt of 5.66 (!!very ugly!!), TD/INT ratio of 12/9. Those numbers are terrible considering he's playing in an offense that should inflate numbers, his offensive teammates are significantly above average, and besides Texas and maybe Arkansas, those other defenses aren't very good, especially his YPA. Granted, I don't think I even watched Tannehill play a whole game last season, so I'm sure some of you will argue that one must watch a QB play to make any judgement on him, but in my opinion those stats are so bad he doesn't deserve to be watched if I'm looking to scout QBs who deserve to be taken in the early rounds.

Soooo...you're saying he's Blaine Gabbert? Gabbert was horrible at Missouri and he went #10 overall last year (though it was to the Jaguars and Gene Smith is a total idiot). I don't think I got to see any of Tannehill's games, but just because of my example above, he has a shot to go top 10.

#22 MAC_32

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:07 AM

Tannehill is not Gabbert. Gabbert sucked when he was drafted and always will suck. Tannehill could develop...but he has a lot of work to do. Personally, i think if someone takes him in round 1 they're crazy, just like I did with Ponder + Locker + Gabbert last year. if someone takes him in the same range as Kaepernick or Dalton I can get behind that. he has loads of potential, unlike most of the other QB's in this draft.

#23 coolnerd

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:38 AM

http://www.nationalf...-NFL-Draft.html Scouting report...Waldman has some stuff on him also.

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#24 FreeBaGeL

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

A month ago, it seemed like Tannehill was a a borderline first pick (correct me if I am wrong). Now, speculation is that he might go in the top 5.

It seems like this happens all the time, maybe we should just skip a step and rate the top 3 or so QBs highly no matter how they compare to QBs in other classes. In early February... Vince Young was a mid-round pick (went 3rd overall) Mark Sanchez was a 2nd rounder (went 5th overall) Locker and Gabbert were late 1st rounders (went 8th and 10th overall) Christain Ponder was a mid-2nd rounder (went 14th overall) It seems like every year, Once we start to get within about 4-6 weeks of the draft every QB moves up about 15-30 spots from where they were being mocked before.

Edited by FreeBaGeL, 13 March 2012 - 08:48 AM.


#25 Obie Wan

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:20 AM

Good enough to go to the Dolphins at #9.

Having Mike Sherman to provide the inside scoop will certainly give the Dolphins the inside track on where to slot him in the draft. Also having Philbin on staff covers all the bases We shall see what the insiders know if not overridden by Ross' pursuit of Manning.

#26 Obie Wan

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:25 AM

A month ago, it seemed like Tannehill was a a borderline first pick (correct me if I am wrong). Now, speculation is that he might go in the top 5.

It seems like this happens all the time, maybe we should just skip a step and rate the top 3 or so QBs highly no matter how they compare to QBs in other classes. In early February... Vince Young was a mid-round pick (went 3rd overall) Mark Sanchez was a 2nd rounder (went 5th overall) Locker and Gabbert were late 1st rounders (went 8th and 10th overall) Christain Ponder was a mid-2nd rounder (went 14th overall) It seems like every year, Once we start to get within about 4-6 weeks of the draft every QB moves up about 15-30 spots from where they were being mocked before.

The fallacy of your statement is that you equate internet hacks with NFL clubs front office personnel. The players did not move up the NFL GM board they moved up internet board mock drafts - based on outsider speculation NFL teams know you need a QB and overvalue them because of the shortage and the high return if gold is struck internet experts - not so much

#27 Time Kibitzer

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:02 AM

If Tannehill goes that high, it'll be another example of a so-so college qb going way higher than his performance on the field dictates he should go. Way to high for a guy who's a 2-3 year project guy at best.

Agreed. There's nothing in his stats from last year that suggest he should be a top 10 pick in the NFL. If anything, he should be a round 3 pick at the earliest. And personally, if I was an NFL GM I probably wouldn't draft him til the 6th round if at all. Firstly, he had one of the best WR combos in the country to throw to in Jeff Fuller and Ryan Swope; and he also had 2 future NFL RBs on his team to keep defenses honest. Second, the Big 12 was probably the worst conference in the FBS when it comes to defense. 3 of the bottom 7 defenses FBS defenses in the country came from the Big 12 (Kansas, Baylor, Texas Tech.). Third, considering the quality of his teammates and the poor opposition Tannehill faced, his stats last year are pretty bad, particularly against teams with any semblance of a defense. Against the only 6 teams who ranked in the top 100 of 120 in the FBS in defense who Tannehill faced (Texas-14th, Arkansas-51st, Missouri-61st, Oklahoma-62nd, Kansas State-74th, Iowa State-99th), his stats are as follows: 163 completions, 290 attempts, 56.2% completions, 1640 passing yards (avg. of 273 per game, median of 255), Yards-per-attempt of 5.66 (!!very ugly!!), TD/INT ratio of 12/9. Those numbers are terrible considering he's playing in an offense that should inflate numbers, his offensive teammates are significantly above average, and besides Texas and maybe Arkansas, those other defenses aren't very good, especially his YPA. Granted, I don't think I even watched Tannehill play a whole game last season, so I'm sure some of you will argue that one must watch a QB play to make any judgement on him, but in my opinion those stats are so bad he doesn't deserve to be watched if I'm looking to scout QBs who deserve to be taken in the early rounds.

Soooo...you're saying he's Blaine Gabbert? Gabbert was horrible at Missouri and he went #10 overall last year (though it was to the Jaguars and Gene Smith is a total idiot). I don't think I got to see any of Tannehill's games, but just because of my example above, he has a shot to go top 10.

I wasn't really saying anything about where I think he'll be drafted, I was saying I think he'll be drafted earlier than he should and that if I were a GM I wouldn't touch him in the first 2 rounds.

#28 FreeBaGeL

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:43 AM

A month ago, it seemed like Tannehill was a a borderline first pick (correct me if I am wrong). Now, speculation is that he might go in the top 5.

It seems like this happens all the time, maybe we should just skip a step and rate the top 3 or so QBs highly no matter how they compare to QBs in other classes. In early February... Vince Young was a mid-round pick (went 3rd overall) Mark Sanchez was a 2nd rounder (went 5th overall) Locker and Gabbert were late 1st rounders (went 8th and 10th overall) Christain Ponder was a mid-2nd rounder (went 14th overall) It seems like every year, Once we start to get within about 4-6 weeks of the draft every QB moves up about 15-30 spots from where they were being mocked before.

The fallacy of your statement is that you equate internet hacks with NFL clubs front office personnel. The players did not move up the NFL GM board they moved up internet board mock drafts - based on outsider speculation NFL teams know you need a QB and overvalue them because of the shortage and the high return if gold is struck internet experts - not so much

Probably true, but I don't see how that changes anything, as it's likely the same thing with Tannehill as it was with the others. The point is, every year on this board and in mock drafts the 2nd tier of rookie QBs rank a good 30 spots higher in late March than they did in late January, so we really shouldn't be surprised when it happens. People think back to guys like Vince Young, Mark Sanchez, and Christian Ponder as early draft picks but forget that a month before that they all thought they were going to be 2nd rounders. It will likely be the same 2 years from now with someone else and everyone just will just remember that Tannehill was a commonly mocked top 10 pick and not that they thought he also would be a 2nd rounder as recently as a few weeks ago.

Edited by FreeBaGeL, 13 March 2012 - 11:44 AM.


#29 FreeBaGeL

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:46 AM

While we're at it, how many of those guys that went through those huge jumps in ranking just because they're QBs actually worked out. Maybe there's something to the internet goobers ranking them where they did prior to GMs getting all excited and letting it slip that they'd be interested in grabbing that 2nd-3rd round talent with a top 10 overall pick.

#30 Bracie Smathers

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:24 AM

Gregg Cosell threw out abunch of tweets about Tannenhill recently:

Greg Cosell ‏ @ gregcosell
Tannehill better prospect than Ponder. NIce feel in pocket. Good pocket mobility re: lack of experience. Willing to make stick throws.

Greg Cosell ‏ @ gregcosell
Tannehill needs work with progession reading but can be coached. Must learn to validate safeties after snap. Threw well outside the numbers.

Greg Cosell ‏ @ gregcosell
Tannehill threw w/anticipation. NFL throws: Outs, seams, hooks. Poised w/downfield focus. May have best pocket command + mobility in class.

Greg Cosell ‏ @ gregcosell
Questions re: pocket command. Here's how I see it: Ability to stay on balance in collapsing pocket + maintain downfield focus.

Greg Cosell ‏ @ gregcosell
Pocket command also involves ability to move within pocket, area about size of boxing ring, in response to pressure, also keeping focus,

Greg Cosell ‏ @ gregcosell
Pocket command far more important attribute for consistent success than runnig out of pocket. NFL QB a pocket game. Must master pocket first

It is difficult to place any sort of conntext on Cosell's remarks concerning Tannenhill.

He has requisite size and above average arm strength and fantastic mobility. From Cosell's comments he sees weakness in his pre-snap reads but it sounds as though he is under the impression that Ryan can be coached-up.

The one comment that sticks out to me is "Tannehill better prospect than Ponder."

Ponder was taken much higher in last year's draft than most draftnicks anticipated but last year was not typical due to the lockout and the new CBA terms that limited salaries for first round draft picks. The lockout prevented free agency so any team in need of a QB HAD to get one via the draft. This off-season we've already seen two teams in the top dozen picks make pre-emptive moves to land their franchise QB and a playoff team from last land the Moby Dick of free agents in Peyton Manning.

Tannenhill looks like the only game in town left at the QB position but I do not think he's worth a top-five pick but last year I didn't think Ponder was going to go as high as he did.

I can see Miami with Sherman pulliing the trigger too soon but at eight they don't have any shot at one of the top blue-chip players so their opportunity cost is minimal as opposed to Cleveland sitting at four who is in the thick of a couple of blue-chip prospects.

Interesting commments by Cosell though. Thought I'd pass them along.

#31 Andy Dufresne

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:28 AM

:whistle:

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#32 duaneok66

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:36 AM

Ok I am on the bandwagon now - glad to see positive comments about Tebow from someone who studied him in mltiple games.

#33 Donnybrook

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:13 PM

Gregg Cosell threw out abunch of tweets about Tannenhill recently:

Greg Cosell ‏ @ gregcosell
Tannehill better prospect than Ponder. NIce feel in pocket. Good pocket mobility re: lack of experience. Willing to make stick throws.

NFL Films' Greg Cosell believes Colt McCoy's "significant arm strength limitations" could limit the Browns offense going forward, and force it to be run based.

http://www.fantasysp...t#ixzz1pyLJxdfJ

:coffee:

Edited by Donnybrook, 23 March 2012 - 12:14 PM.


#34 Crazysight

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:51 PM

in short: not very.

Edited by Crazysight, 23 March 2012 - 12:51 PM.


#35 Andy Dufresne

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:04 AM

Mayock knows stuff...

Browns will bring in Ryan Tannehill for pre-draft visit Posted by Michael David Smith on March 27, 2012, 1:55 PM EDT Getty Images Although Browns coach Pat Shurmur says his team is moving forward with Colt McCoy at quarterback, drafting Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill remains a possibility. Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that the Browns will bring in Tannehill as one of their 30 pre-draft visits. That doesn’t necessarily mean the Browns view Tannehill as their best bet with the fourth overall pick in the NFL draft, but it’s still a move they’re considering. And NFL Network’s Mike Mayock endorsed Tannehill as the player the Browns should take. “Franchise quarterback trumps all,” Mayock said on Path to the Draft. “We talk about that all the time, and I don’t believe Colt McCoy is the answer. And I do believe Ryan Tannehill could become the answer. So I believe at No. 4 they ought to pull the trigger on Tannehill.” The question is whether they’d be passing up on an offensive playmaker they love when they pulled the trigger on Tannehill. Alabama running back Trent Richardson and Oklahoma State receiver Justin Blackmon are other potential targets for the Browns at No. 4. But Mayock said the Browns would be better off drafting Tannehill at No. 4 and then using their second first-round pick, the 22nd overall selection they acquired from the Falcons in last year’s Julio Jones trade, on a running back or receiver. “Don’t forget, Cleveland’s got No. 22 in the first round,” Mayock said. “So don’t look at this as just No. 4. You’re trying to come out of this draft the best you can. And if you want a tailback because you lost Peyton Hillis, how about Doug Martin? How about David Wilson? At No. 22 you can get one of those tailbacks. If you need a wide receiver at No. 22, what about Kendall Wright? The way I think they have to look at this thing is, go get the franchise quarterback, sit him on the bench for a little bit behind Colt McCoy, get him comfortable, and then at 22 get yourself a playmaker.” Fourth overall is higher than most people think Tannehill will go. But if the Browns think there’s a chance Tannehill will be their franchise quarterback for years to come, they can’t pass him up.


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#36 Sabertooth

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:42 AM

In a 2QB dynasty league where would you slot Tannehill provided he goes in the first round? With such a premium on the QB spot, I'm thinking 4 or 5 is reasonable.

#37 Sabertooth

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:45 AM

Video of Mayock breaking down Tannehill.
http://www.nfl.com/v...-Ryan-Tannehill

#38 SWC

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:07 AM

1. does he poop in his pants when he sees a fan wearing a defensive players jersey and then fall to the ground and curl up into the fetus position while sobbing uncrontrollably and shouting for his mommy well at the same time ruining the desire to play football for everyone on his team and then also ruining the desire of everyone in the greater florida area to even watch or think about football 2. if you answered no to nubmer 1 then he is not blaine gabbert poopy pants and has a shot to be ok in the nfl

#39 Andy Dufresne

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:35 AM

1. does he poop in his pants when he sees a fan wearing a defensive players jersey and then fall to the ground and curl up into the fetus position while sobbing uncrontrollably and shouting for his mommy well at the same time ruining the desire to play football for everyone on his team and then also ruining the desire of everyone in the greater florida area to even watch or think about football 2. if you answered no to nubmer 1 then he is not blaine gabbert poopy pants and has a shot to be ok in the nfl

Dude. Stop.

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#40 Faust

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 01:16 PM

Cosell Talks: The Tannehill Project

by Greg Cosell

Ryan Tannehill started 19 games at Texas A&M. I watched six of them, all from his senior season in College Station, Texas. Given his lack of experience at the quarterback position (only six starts to end his junior year), my evaluation was chronological. I was anxious to see how he progressed as he played more snaps and gained a greater feel for the subtleties of the position.

I began with Oklahoma State, A&M’s first conference matchup in the Big 12. It was the Aggies’ third game of the season, after consecutive easy wins against non-conference teams. Remember, at that early point in the season, no one knew with any certainty that Oklahoma State would be a contender for the national championship. Quite frankly, that was not that relevant to me. When I study a quarterback, I am not overly concerned with the opponent. In addition, I don’t spend a lot of time analyzing the specifics of his college offense. That’s only important in one sense: You get a feel for what he’s asked to do, and then you can analyze his reads and throws accordingly. Think of it this way: If you based your evaluation of Cam Newton a year ago on the mechanics of Auburn’s run-first option offense, then you would have missed the more essential evaluation — that Newton was a special talent as a passer.

When I watch coaching tape of a college quarterback, my focus is on the attributes of quarterback play that are necessary to succeed at the position in the NFL. Passing the ball well on Sundays demands particular and identifiable traits. There’s no question different players possess these characteristics in distinctive and varying degrees. The overriding point, however, is that consistent quarterback play requires a tangible skill set that can be quantified.

Back to Tannehill — against Oklahoma State, a number of things were evident. Let’s start with arm strength, often dismissed as an overrated attribute — until, of course, it’s needed in a critical situation. Tannehill had a good arm, but not a gun. What helped him spin the ball was good weight transfer. He did not lift his back foot off the ground too soon, and effectively drove through his throws.

Three other points emerged from this game. First, he was willing to pull the trigger on difficult throws, which is a necessity in the NFL. Second, he threw the ball well and with confidence when working outside the numbers. Lastly, and surprisingly given his relative inexperience, he exhibited comfortable pocket mobility. In response to pressure, he moved within an area that approximates the size of a boxing ring while maintaining both his passer profile and his downfield focus. Pocket movement is a far more important attribute in the NFL than leaving the pocket and running.

This was one game, so these were snapshots more than final grades. As I continued with Arkansas, Iowa State and Missouri, I developed a more fully developed picture of Tannehill. His delivery was a bit low, more three-quarters than over-the-top. It was compact with good arm speed, which also accounted for the aforementioned velocity. One concern: I thought he had a tendency to lock his front leg as he delivered the ball at times. There were instances in which that hindered his usually precise ball location. Some throws were a little high, especially ones between the numbers. Those problems can be coached and fixed, but it’s a process and, at this point, a concern.

One benefit of Tannehill’s three-quarters delivery is it allows him to throw very well on the move, both to his right and impressively, to his left. In fact, he’s a better, more accurate passer on the run than either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin. Tannehill was very efficient off the boot-action pass game. That will translate very well to the NFL.

The final two games I evaluated were Texas A&M’s contests against Oklahoma and Texas. Pocket movement remained a strong element of his game. I would argue that Tannehill exhibited the best pocket command and mobility of any quarterback in this draft class. To take it a step further, Tannehill was very good when improvising within structure. When the pressure forced him to abandon the boxing ring, he did, but the objective was again to find a quieter area to deliver the ball rather than to run. While the threat of the run was present, Tannehill remained a passer first, allowing the defense to dictate his reaction. We always talk about extending plays. Tannehill did that well, preserving his downfield focus and making accurate throws at the intermediate and deeper levels of the defense.

Some inconsistencies in his play also appeared. He did not drive the ball as well against Texas as he had in the earlier games. He missed some throws that were there; overall, his ball location was inconsistent. I am not ready to say it’s a red flag as he transitions to the NFL, but it is something to watch, especially with his tendency to lock his front leg.

One other problem became increasingly evident the more plays I watched. In every pass offense, the quarterback must locate the safeties to best determine where to throw the ball at the intermediate and deeper levels. Tannehill at times did not do a good job of verifying the positioning of the safeties after the snap of the ball. That led to some poor reads and ill-advised throws, especially against Texas. As I mentioned earlier, that can and will be fixed through coaching in the context of his NFL pass offense.

Overall, I did not necessarily see the kind of improvement over time I would have liked. In the final analysis, Tannehill is a better prospect than Christian Ponder was a year ago. Tannehill possesses the skill set to be a quality NFL starter. At this point, he would be best in a quick-rhythm, short-to-intermediate passing game that featured play-action and boot-action passes. One thing we know for certain: He likely will be drafted higher than his body of work suggests he should be.



#41 Sabertooth

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 01:27 PM

Nice article. He's definitely an enigma. I may have to take him based on draft position.

#42 coolnerd

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:14 PM

In a 2QB dynasty league where would you slot Tannehill provided he goes in the first round? With such a premium on the QB spot, I'm thinking 4 or 5 is reasonable.

Five seems like the range in that type of league, assuming he really goes top 10.

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#43 Faust

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:35 PM

Ryan Tannehill has too many question marks to go in top 10

By Bucky Brooks NFL.com
Analyst

It's a foregone conclusion that Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III will be the first two quarterbacks to come off the board on draft day following their spectacular pro-day performances a week ago. The workouts confirmed scouts' opinions on each prospect and secured their spots with the Indianapolis Colts and Washington Redskins.

However, there are other teams near the top of the board still in need of a franchise quarterback, which has sent the stock of Texas A&M QB Ryan Tannehill soaring across the league. The consensus third-rated quarterback has been pegged as a potential fit in Cleveland and Miami, but questions persist about whether he is truly a top-10 talent.

While some view Tannehill as an athletic quarterback in the mold of Tony Romo, others see an unpolished passer with a game that is not quite ready for primetime. After taking some time to study his game tape in advance of his highly anticipated pro day Thursday in College Station, here are the three questions I believe evaluators must resolve before pulling the trigger on Tannehill as a top-10 pick:

1. Is Tannehill an elite talent?

Scouts are taught to look for special qualities in every prospect that will help them become successful at the next level. These traits are often dubbed "blue qualities," and top-10 picks typically possess two or three elite characteristics. Andrew Luck (accuracy, pocket presence and awareness, football IQ) and Robert Griffin III (athleticism, arm strength, leadership ability) have these blue qualities. Tannehill, in my opinion, only has one.

Tannehill certainly is a blue-chip athlete. He was one of the Aggies' top receiving threats during his first two seasons in College Station, and those skills are on display when he has the ball in his hands. He is nimble and elusive in the pocket and also shows above average speed in the open field. His ability to operate as a dual-threat playmaker on the edge makes him an outstanding fit in movement-based passing games.

When breaking down other key components of Tannehill's game, I would rank his arm strength near elite level, but not quite there. And his accuracy and touch, particularly on deep throws, only receive above-average marks. While some of those traits can be improved through diligent training and repetition, Tannehill doesn't necessarily possess a skill set that will allow him to become a dominant player immediately.

Now, that doesn't mean that Tannehill can't become an effective starter early in his career (Matt Ryan has had success in Atlanta without having elite arm strength or athleticism), but he must be exceptional in other areas and have the right supporting cast to thrive. Given those unique circumstances, it is hard to view Tannehill as a top-10 talent at first glance.

2. Will his limited game experience prevent him from becoming an instant success as a pro?

Studies have shown that a young quarterback's success can be tied to his game experience as a collegian. In fact, Bill Parcells reportedly used a formula that required a quarterback prospect to have three-plus years of starting experience, 23-plus wins and a college degree to garner serious consideration. Others have employed similar formulas with 30-plus collegiate starts as a baseline. The common denominator in all of these philosophies is to acquire quarterbacks who enter the league prepared mentally and physically from extensive game experience.

Tannehill, however, falls short on those benchmarks, and thus, evaluators could question his readiness for the pro game. He enters the league with only 20 career starts, compiling a 13-7 record in those games. Although the record is not disappointing, the tale of the tape suggests he still needs to work on the finer aspects of the position. From developing a better sense of how to orchestrate the game at the line of scrimmage to showing improved awareness of defensive fronts and coverage, Tannehill needs more training and repetitions.

While some would counter by referencing the immediate impact of Cam Newton as a rookie starter despite his limited collegiate résumé, I would point out that Mark Sanchez and Alex Smith also had similar collegiate starting experience to Tannehill.

That's why scouts must carefully scrutinize Tannehill's workout at his pro day to assess where he is in his development and how quickly he can grasp the complexities of the pro game. He must demonstrate sound mechanics from a footwork standpoint, while also displaying arm strength, accuracy and touch. If he can put on spectacular showing to complement the occasional flashes of brilliance that show up on game tape, a team might be convinced to ignore the limited résumé and gamble on Tannehill's upside and potential.

3. Does he possesses the "it" factor to take his team to another level?

When evaluating top talent, scouts want to see how players perform in big games. The idea is to see how well a prospect fares against pro-caliber talent in a pressurized environment that mirrors the weekly battles in the NFL.

In studying Tannehill's senior season, it is apparent that he struggled in the Aggies' biggest games. In a five-game breakdown against the top-tier teams on his schedule (Oklahoma State, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas State and Texas), Tannehill only completed 54.7 percent of his passes with nine touchdowns and 11 interceptions. More importantly, his team lost all five games. Tannehill didn't make enough plays from the pocket to help his team take those competitive battles. Whether it was a critical interception or a poor throw on a pivotal third down, Tannehill appeared to come up short when it mattered most.

Given those failures, scouts should strongly consider whether Tannehill has the "it" factor needed to be a franchise quarterback. Although this remains an unquantifiable trait, the ability to lead a team to victory despite difficult circumstances separates the elite from the also-rans at the position.

Without a signature win or a memorable moment to indicate Tannehill has the goods to be a clutch performer with the game on the line, I have a hard time considering Tannehill to be a top-10 talent. The Browns or Dolphins might eventually disagree with my opinion, but it is difficult to find a game tape that rebuffs that assessment.


Edited by Faust, 28 March 2012 - 02:36 PM.


#44 Faust

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:50 PM

Tannehill still standing in NFL's QB version of musical chairs

By Chad Reuter NFL.com

The NFL free-agency period gave us a high-stakes game of quarterback musical chairs.

Peyton Manning's nationwide tour led to his choosing Denver as his future home, which led to the trade of Broncos fan favorite Tim Tebow to the New York Jets, which in turn led to recent free-agent signee Drew Stanton moving from the Big Apple to Indianapolis to play behind likely No. 1 pick Andrew Luck.

Seattle landed highly regarded Green Bay Packers backup Matt Flynn, and Alex Smith re-signed with the San Francisco 49ers after they lost the Manning Sweepstakes. Meanwhile, these top backups all found new homes: Derek Anderson (Carolina Panthers), Jason Campbell (Chicago Bears), Trent Edwards (Philadelphia Eagles), Chad Henne (Jacksonville Jaguars), Kyle Orton (Dallas Cowboys), Brady Quinn (Kansas City Chiefs), David Garrard (Miami Dolphins) and Charlie Whitehurst (San Diego Chargers).

Not all of the QB dominoes have fallen, though, and the position will certainly continue to be a hot topic as next month's draft approaches. Let's take a look at where things stand:

Top of the draft

Two QB-bereft squads are in line to secure the draft's elite quarterback prospects. The Colts "earned" the top overall pick with a 2-14 2011 season and are widely expected to take Stanford's Andrew Luck with the No. 1 pick. The Redskins made a bold move to sit directly behind Indianapolis in the draft order, giving up their first-round picks in the 2012, 2013 and 2014 drafts, as well as their second-round pick in April. Washington has its sights set squarely on Robert Griffin III.

That leaves Cleveland and Miami as the teams most discussed as needing signal callers, with apologies to the Browns' Colt McCoy and Dolphins' Matt Moore and Garrard. They are the leading candidates to select Texas A&M's Ryan Tannehill, either in the top 10 (where Cleveland has the fourth overall pick and Miami the eighth) or in the middle of the round after trading.

Though obviously a promising prospect due to his very good physical and mental attributes, Tannehill is not considered early first-round value by many, due to his inexperience. (Though neither were Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder before they were picked eighth, 10th and 12th, respectively, in last year's draft.)

The Browns possess the 22nd overall selection, as well as an extra fourth-rounder. They could use those picks to move up in the first to ensure getting Tannehill if Miami does not feel he is worthy of their pick at eight. Patience could be team president Mike Holmgren's plan, selecting running back Trent Richardson or receiver Justin Blackmon at four and then holding tight while Miami makes its decision.

Bargain bin

Either Cleveland or Miami (or both, if a surprise team emerges to take Tannehill) will join a few other teams in yet another game of musical chairs -- this time in competition for the third tier of quarterback prospects. The hope here will be to find an eventual starter or long-time reliable backup.

Buffalo is the top candidate to fight the Browns and/or Dolphins for Brandon Weeden (Oklahoma State), Kirk Cousins (Michigan State) or Brock Osweiler (Arizona State), the next three QBs on the draft board behind Luck, Griffin and Tannehill. The Bills have just two true quarterbacks on the roster, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Tyler Thigpen. Giving Fitzpatrick a $5 million roster bonus last week by no means takes them out of the quarterback sweepstakes on the second day of the draft. Weeden or Cousins could fill the "caretaker" role that Fitzpatrick struggled with at times in 2011, leading the NFL with 23 interceptions.

Weeden's age (he turns 29 in October) should not turn off teams from considering him as a second-round pick. He is a mature player to fill an immediate need, as teams no longer have the luxury of long rebuilding plans. Cousins may not have elite physical tools but seems like a natural fit to play in Buffalo or Cleveland, as he possesses similar intelligence to Fitzpatrick and leadership qualities to McCoy.

Osweiler's 6-foot-7 frame and ability to distribute the ball from the pocket could land him in Denver, if those other teams aren't interested, especially now that the Broncos have an extra fourth-round pick from the Jets in the Tebow trade. Team president John Elway and head coach John Fox will want to ensure their team doesn't nose-dive in the standings like the Colts did if Manning cannot stay on the field. Osweiler's delivery needs to be shortened, and who better to emulate than the similarly-sized Manning.

St. Louis may also search out a reliable backup for Sam Bradford, who missed six games last season (and most of his final season at Oklahoma) due to injury. Weeden is likely to be gone before the Rams consider selecting a quarterback. Although neither Osweiler nor Cousins can match Bradford's accuracy, they should be prepared to fill in admirably for a few games if needed, much like 2011 fifth-round pick T.J. Yates did for the Texans when Matt Schaub was injured last season.

These three quarterbacks, somewhat lost in all the Luck-Griffin-Tannehill talk, have the ability to become at least solid starters in the mold of Cincinnati 2011 second-round pick Andy Dalton or former third-rounder Matt Schaub. If they do, the winner of the secondary game of musical chairs could find a more comfortable place to settle than those buying expensive seats in free agency.



Edited by Faust, 28 March 2012 - 02:51 PM.


#45 Faust

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:03 PM

Video Link:


Draft debate: Ryan Tannehill vs. Brandon Weeden

08:55 – Former NFL executives Tony Softli and Ted Sundquist discuss which QBs after Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III should go in the first round of the 2012 NFL Draft.


Edited by Faust, 28 March 2012 - 03:22 PM.


#46 duaneok66

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:48 PM

Yo Faust, thanks for all the work you do in posting the articles!! This one was great!!! Cosell is the man!!

#47 Faust

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:32 PM

Yo Faust, thanks for all the work you do in posting the articles!! This one was great!!! Cosell is the man!!

I always stop to read anything that has a take from Cosell because he has so much experience watching tape, that he is almost always spot on with his analysis! And thank you for your avatar! :thumbup:

Edited by Faust, 28 March 2012 - 05:33 PM.


#48 duaneok66

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:28 PM

Yo Faust, thanks for all the work you do in posting the articles!! This one was great!!! Cosell is the man!!

I always stop to read anything that has a take from Cosell because he has so much experience watching tape, that he is almost always spot on with his analysis! And thank you for your avatar! :thumbup:

no problem! keep up the great work!!

#49 MAC_32

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:15 AM

Mayock knows stuff...

Browns will bring in Ryan Tannehill for pre-draft visit Posted by Michael David Smith on March 27, 2012, 1:55 PM EDT Getty Images Although Browns coach Pat Shurmur says his team is moving forward with Colt McCoy at quarterback, drafting Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill remains a possibility. Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that the Browns will bring in Tannehill as one of their 30 pre-draft visits. That doesn’t necessarily mean the Browns view Tannehill as their best bet with the fourth overall pick in the NFL draft, but it’s still a move they’re considering. And NFL Network’s Mike Mayock endorsed Tannehill as the player the Browns should take. “Franchise quarterback trumps all,” Mayock said on Path to the Draft. “We talk about that all the time, and I don’t believe Colt McCoy is the answer. And I do believe Ryan Tannehill could become the answer. So I believe at No. 4 they ought to pull the trigger on Tannehill.” The question is whether they’d be passing up on an offensive playmaker they love when they pulled the trigger on Tannehill. Alabama running back Trent Richardson and Oklahoma State receiver Justin Blackmon are other potential targets for the Browns at No. 4. But Mayock said the Browns would be better off drafting Tannehill at No. 4 and then using their second first-round pick, the 22nd overall selection they acquired from the Falcons in last year’s Julio Jones trade, on a running back or receiver. “Don’t forget, Cleveland’s got No. 22 in the first round,” Mayock said. “So don’t look at this as just No. 4. You’re trying to come out of this draft the best you can. And if you want a tailback because you lost Peyton Hillis, how about Doug Martin? How about David Wilson? At No. 22 you can get one of those tailbacks. If you need a wide receiver at No. 22, what about Kendall Wright? The way I think they have to look at this thing is, go get the franchise quarterback, sit him on the bench for a little bit behind Colt McCoy, get him comfortable, and then at 22 get yourself a playmaker.” Fourth overall is higher than most people think Tannehill will go. But if the Browns think there’s a chance Tannehill will be their franchise quarterback for years to come, they can’t pass him up.

I used to really like Mayock, but he's getting watered down. Not sure who's gotten in his ear and when but he was gushing about Colt during the Pittsburgh game this year, obviously that was his last game played of the year, and now he's saying he's not the answer. Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?

#50 Multiple Scores

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:26 AM

If he goes top 10 it's just silly. Overvaluing a need this much is the way to make a bad team worse.




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