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Stevan Ridley (1 Viewer)

At some point, this should really be a discussion about Stevan Ridley's talent level rather than the Patriots depth chart. How talented is he? Any concern that he probably had the slowest 40 time of any of the top RB's in this rookie class with something like a 4.66/4.67? I saw even BJGE ran a 4.6 heading into his rookie season. I'm quite aware that 40 times are extremely misleading, but how many elite RB's in recent memory were 4.66 guys? Will a lack of speed pigeon hole him into being just a short yardage/goal line back?

I don't say this to knock him as much as I'm just curious?

 
'David Yudkin said:
Since someone asked, here is a yearly breakdown of how many carries the top back got each week. Basically, I looked up each box score and logged the highest carry total from each game. Mind you, some years the top carry back rotated while others it was mostly Dillon. I also noted how many games each year that the high individual hit 10 carries, 15 carries, 20 carries, and 25 carries.Year, AVG, 10, 15, 20, 252000, 14.75, 13, 6, 6, 02001, 17.94, 16, 11, 9, 12002, 15.75, 14, 10, 2, 22003, 17.00, 16, 12, 3, 12004, 22.56, 15, 15, 11, 82005, 16.81, 14, 10, 5, 12006, 14.44, 14, 7, 2, 02007, 15.19, 14, 8, 4, 12008, 13.81, 13, 6, 3, 12009, 14.94, 13, 8, 5, 02010, 15.13, 14, 9, 3, 02011, 13.33, 2, 1, 0, 0Obviously 2004 was the outlier. And even with injuries, the past 5 years has seen the top ball carrier see fewer carries than in the early days with BB in NE. Remember, the above numbers were made up of several different guys getting the most carries, It doesn't mean that one guy got the most carries every week.As for Ridley, there are a lot that doesn't add up. If Ridley was going to be their guy of the future, why did they take Vereen in the 2nd round before taking Ridley in the third? I agree that Ridley has looked good in limited action, but there is not a ton to go on . . . he's had 9 carries so far. If we play this out and say Ridley takes on a bigger role, what happens to all the other backs? Does Vereen ever play or does he sit on the bench? If so, why did they draft him? And what about BJGE and Woodhead? Do they get kicked to the curb? It seems like they would be taking up quite a few roster spots on RBs.. Against BUF, he had a nice 16 yard run. But he averaged
You aren't making much sense here. First of all... players don't always play according to where they were drafted. When they get to camp, play in games, ect... the coaches are better able to determine where the guys belong. It isn't as if we are talking about a top 10 draft choice here. Vereen has been nothing to impress the coaches... while Ridley has done nothing but produce, and take great advantage of every opportunity that he has been given. If you notice... he is active and playing... even in crucial situations while Vereen remains inactive. I think it's obvious that they trust Ridley and want to use him on the field... which is exactly why they are using him and not Vereen. I also found it interesting that they used Ridley in their more crucial parts of the game against Buffalo... which shows how much trust they obviously have in him. All of that is much more important than draft position. Also to be noted that Ridley seriously out produced BJGE and Woodhead with his opportunity. BB is a results based guy... as we seen by him using Morris over Maroney a few years ago, BGJE and Woodhead last year, ect...
 
At some point, this should really be a discussion about Stevan Ridley's talent level rather than the Patriots depth chart. How talented is he? Any concern that he probably had the slowest 40 time of any of the top RB's in this rookie class with something like a 4.66/4.67? I saw even BJGE ran a 4.6 heading into his rookie season. I'm quite aware that 40 times are extremely misleading, but how many elite RB's in recent memory were 4.66 guys? Will a lack of speed pigeon hole him into being just a short yardage/goal line back? I don't say this to knock him as much as I'm just curious?
Forty doesn't measure short area speed. Ridley looks like he has a much better short burst than BJGE. And MUCH better receiving skills, which is good b/c maybe he takes some of both LawFirm's AND Woodchuck's touches as the year wears on.IMO, this kid's two biggest hurdles are not LawFirm and Woody but ball security and pass pro. He will be on a short leash when it comes to those two concepts.Vereen is also a potential cluster bomb to Riddler if things break right. We haven't seen that guy yet, but I wonder how buried he is right now after missing so much time.
 
Talent will win out; just look at the shiny new TEs up there. Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead? Not much to unseat there. Had there not been a strike, you likely don't have a chance like this (to get him off the WW in week 4). A lot can be gleaned off that one series in Buffalo, down 7. A few more like that and it's over...so now is the time. Went all-in, this is what it's about really.
How many TEs did the Pats have on the roster when they drafted Gronk and Hernandez? Zero. Tough not to play when you run a race unopposed.Since you and I already emailed back and forth about this, I again say people that need RB help are going to look at Ridley as a potential savior. People are wanting to first draw a conclusion and then make a scenario and a road map that some how gets them to their desired outcome.Unlike the TEs, the Pats already had BGJE and Woodhead, who last year combined for 2K+ yards and nearly 20 TD. People suggesting that those two have no track record are kidding themselves. They did fine.Yes, I agree that if Ridley is far and away the best, most talented, and most productive back he might see more playing time. But are they going to bench 4 other backs to do so?Ridley has had NINE career carries, one of which was for 16 or 18 yards. By extension, that means his other 8 carries were in line with every other Pats back in recent years. So his numbers are inflated from one carry.The Pats have had other young backs over the past 10 years. Maroney was a first round pick and didn't ever get a full workload. JR Redmond was taken almost at the same point as Ridley was, and he did not get a ton of work either. As for skill position players, the Pats generally haven't got much rookie production from WRs either.While it's true that the Pats will give rookies a bigger role on occasion (McCourty, Mayo, last year's TEs, etc.), most of the time rookies are brought along slowly in NE.If Ridley were so clearly a transcendent and uberly talented back, why was he the 7th back taken in the draft? I'm not saying he isn't talented, but where were all the mavens suggesting he was going to be a beast before? I am asking because I don't know. Was Ridley universally thought as the next big thing and I missed it?THe other "given" that people seem to be making is that Ridley will shine while the other backs will roll over and die. I think it's a stretch that all the other backs are somehow going to have a 2.0 ypc, get hurt, and start fumbling while Ridley will average over 6 yards a carry, stay healthy, and never couch up the ball. One blown pass prtection and Ridley will be in the doghouse, especially if Brady gets decked.So bottom line, yes, go pick him up if he is on waivers. He is truly a lottery ticket. If his number comes up and you have him, good for you. But I am not 100% convinced that his lottery ticket is worth much more than a lottery ticket from another team. If people can stash him, I don't see why you shouldnt stash him. I am just providing my take on how I see things turning out.
 
The Patriots have zero runs of 20 yards or more in 3 games. This is where Ridley can really help the Patriots. Ultimately his fantasy value comes down to touches. 10-15 touches could translate to RB2 type of numbers.
I like Ridley, but I think you're sorely mistaken if you're expecting him to be a back that rips off runs of 20 yards. I've seen nothing in his college or pro film that suggests he's a homerun/big play threat at the NFL level. If anything, that would be Vereen. Ridley's value would be around the goal line where I think it's clear that he projects to be a better version of BJGE.
Just in case you missed #22Like every coach, Belichick wants to win the Superbowl. It's been a while, 2004 season, coincidentely the last time they had a stud RB. Corey Dillon played in... 15 regular season games:Carries 345Yards 1,635TDs 123 playoff games:292 Yards2 TDsI do believe Belichick has been searching (first 2 of 3 rounds = RB). Ridley will get the majority if carries this week and going foward... I bought the cool-aid. :banned:
Not to disagree too much, but last year, BJGE/Woodhead comboCarries - 326Yards - 1555TDs - 18NE has been getting excellent production from the RBs ( especially in context of their offensive scheme ), but they've tended to split the workload over a number of backs for the past several years.I like what I've seen from Ridley so far, and I think he has a chance to get in the mix. I wouldn't expect to see a huge surge in touches unless we see some injury issues in the Patriots backfield.
 
'griff321 said:
'NCPanthersFan said:
Once the weather turns we are going to be seeing allot more of Ridley.
This is a myth. It's hard to do anything in bad weather, but it's even harder for linemen to get any push and open lanes in the slop.
Tell that to the Jags who ran almost every play in the second half this past weekend, during what looked a hurricane
 
I like what I've seen from Ridley so far, and I think he has a chance to get in the mix. I wouldn't expect to see a huge surge in touches unless we see some injury issues in the Patriots backfield.
He's definitely a "stash and see" play. Starting him now is only for the extremely bold and/or truly desperate. One's hope is that he'll emerge as the season wears. It's only week 4. Just like for Mark Ingram, time and attrition can still play a big role. I can see either or even both of these two rooks putting up solid PPG numbers by the time the fantasy playoffs roll around. They have some distinct commonalities and I'd rather stash guys like this with legit late season upside than many of the middle of the road guys as the last RB on my bench. If I'm grabbing lottery tickets I'll gladly do it with talented young backup RBs on sick offenses. Look no further than just last season to see what the starting GL running back for the Pats is capable of late in the season after Brady has been shredding through the air all year.
 
I like what I've seen from Ridley so far, and I think he has a chance to get in the mix. I wouldn't expect to see a huge surge in touches unless we see some injury issues in the Patriots backfield.
He's definitely a "stash and see" play. Starting him now is only for the extremely bold and/or truly desperate. One's hope is that he'll emerge as the season wears. It's only week 4. Just like for Mark Ingram, time and attrition can still play a big role. I can see either or even both of these two rooks putting up solid PPG numbers by the time the fantasy playoffs roll around. They have some distinct commonalities and I'd rather stash guys like this with legit late season upside than many of the middle of the road guys as the last RB on my bench. If I'm grabbing lottery tickets I'll gladly do it with talented young backup RBs on sick offenses. Look no further than just last season to see what the starting GL running back for the Pats is capable of late in the season after Brady has been shredding through the air all year.
Great discussion. So, is Ridley a better keeper on my bench than say, a Murray from Dallas?? He's waiting on the status of Felix's injury, so their is value potentially there also!
 
One thing I forgot to mention is that over the years the Pats have had some guys do very well in training camp and in the preseason, but that really didn't get them much. Players like Patrick Pass, Mike Cloud, Patrick Cobb, and Kory Chapman looked good. Even BJGE had one camp where he look awesome, including a game where he went for 125/3. Yet he still went to the back of the line in terms of the RB depth chart.

Whoever mentioned Vereen and that Ridley has to be considre leaps and bounds in front of him, all I can say is we really have no idea. Vereen was hurt and has been trying to improve his pass protection. I don't think the Pats are down on him or think he won't be productive, they just don't want to get Brady killed. If BJGE and Woodhead are as bad as some people make it out to be, Vereen certainly should be expected to get a shot at a bigger workload too.

Overall, like in many other threads, the Pats offense has a lot of mouths to feed, so unless there are fewer people to divide the pie, I still think there will be more smaller pieces to go around. To be clear, not knocking Ridley (since some have accused me of that), just looking at the big picture.

 
One thing I forgot to mention is that over the years the Pats have had some guys do very well in training camp and in the preseason, but that really didn't get them much. Players like Patrick Pass, Mike Cloud, Patrick Cobb, and Kory Chapman looked good. Even BJGE had one camp where he look awesome, including a game where he went for 125/3. Yet he still went to the back of the line in terms of the RB depth chart.

Whoever mentioned Vereen and that Ridley has to be considre leaps and bounds in front of him, all I can say is we really have no idea. Vereen was hurt and has been trying to improve his pass protection. I don't think the Pats are down on him or think he won't be productive, they just don't want to get Brady killed. If BJGE and Woodhead are as bad as some people make it out to be, Vereen certainly should be expected to get a shot at a bigger workload too.

Overall, like in many other threads, the Pats offense has a lot of mouths to feed, so unless there are fewer people to divide the pie, I still think there will be more smaller pieces to go around. To be clear, not knocking Ridley (since some have accused me of that), just looking at the big picture.
I don't know... Brady's been doing a pretty good job of making that pie REALLY big, so even with a larger number of slices out of it, those pieces are pretty big. ;) mmmmm... PIE! :homer:

 
Talent will win out; just look at the shiny new TEs up there. Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead? Not much to unseat there. Had there not been a strike, you likely don't have a chance like this (to get him off the WW in week 4). A lot can be gleaned off that one series in Buffalo, down 7. A few more like that and it's over...so now is the time. Went all-in, this is what it's about really.
How many TEs did the Pats have on the roster when they drafted Gronk and Hernandez? Zero. Tough not to play when you run a race unopposed.Since you and I already emailed back and forth about this, I again say people that need RB help are going to look at Ridley as a potential savior. People are wanting to first draw a conclusion and then make a scenario and a road map that some how gets them to their desired outcome.Unlike the TEs, the Pats already had BGJE and Woodhead, who last year combined for 2K+ yards and nearly 20 TD. People suggesting that those two have no track record are kidding themselves. They did fine.Yes, I agree that if Ridley is far and away the best, most talented, and most productive back he might see more playing time. But are they going to bench 4 other backs to do so?Ridley has had NINE career carries, one of which was for 16 or 18 yards. By extension, that means his other 8 carries were in line with every other Pats back in recent years. So his numbers are inflated from one carry.The Pats have had other young backs over the past 10 years. Maroney was a first round pick and didn't ever get a full workload. JR Redmond was taken almost at the same point as Ridley was, and he did not get a ton of work either. As for skill position players, the Pats generally haven't got much rookie production from WRs either.While it's true that the Pats will give rookies a bigger role on occasion (McCourty, Mayo, last year's TEs, etc.), most of the time rookies are brought along slowly in NE.If Ridley were so clearly a transcendent and uberly talented back, why was he the 7th back taken in the draft? I'm not saying he isn't talented, but where were all the mavens suggesting he was going to be a beast before? I am asking because I don't know. Was Ridley universally thought as the next big thing and I missed it?THe other "given" that people seem to be making is that Ridley will shine while the other backs will roll over and die. I think it's a stretch that all the other backs are somehow going to have a 2.0 ypc, get hurt, and start fumbling while Ridley will average over 6 yards a carry, stay healthy, and never couch up the ball. One blown pass prtection and Ridley will be in the doghouse, especially if Brady gets decked.So bottom line, yes, go pick him up if he is on waivers. He is truly a lottery ticket. If his number comes up and you have him, good for you. But I am not 100% convinced that his lottery ticket is worth much more than a lottery ticket from another team. If people can stash him, I don't see why you shouldnt stash him. I am just providing my take on how I see things turning out.
The Patriots had two tight ends on their roster before,during and then four after the 2010 draftRob Myers and Alge Crumpler. No matter what you think about the talent of these two, it is still not zero.BB will do what he thinks is needed to win Ridley gives them a duel threat back. While there is a number of if, ands,or maybes that will determine Ridleys playing time.The talent ahead of Ridley is unimpressive. I don't see how its such a big reach to think Ridley (could) earn significant playing time.
 
Talent will win out; just look at the shiny new TEs up there. Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead? Not much to unseat there. Had there not been a strike, you likely don't have a chance like this (to get him off the WW in week 4).

A lot can be gleaned off that one series in Buffalo, down 7. A few more like that and it's over...so now is the time. Went all-in, this is what it's about really.
Ah...'The Cream Always Rises To The Top'Everyone always gets a chance...especially in NE

I'm drinking the Cool-Aid :banned:

Bump the Riddler :wub:

 
If Ridley were so clearly a transcendent and uberly talented back, why was he the 7th back taken in the draft? I'm not saying he isn't talented, but where were all the mavens suggesting he was going to be a beast before? I am asking because I don't know. Was Ridley universally thought as the next big thing and I missed it?
This mentality is silly to me. Just because he was drafted 7th doesn't mean the ones drafted before him are all much better. Why was Chris Johnson the 5th running back taken in his class, or Matt Forte after him, or Ray Rice after him, or Jamaal Charles after him, or Hillis that was drafted in that same class in the 7th round, etc. etc?
 
One thing I forgot to mention is that over the years the Pats have had some guys do very well in training camp and in the preseason, but that really didn't get them much. Players like Patrick Pass, Mike Cloud, Patrick Cobb, and Kory Chapman looked good. Even BJGE had one camp where he look awesome, including a game where he went for 125/3. Yet he still went to the back of the line in terms of the RB depth chart.

Whoever mentioned Vereen and that Ridley has to be considre leaps and bounds in front of him, all I can say is we really have no idea. Vereen was hurt and has been trying to improve his pass protection. I don't think the Pats are down on him or think he won't be productive, they just don't want to get Brady killed. If BJGE and Woodhead are as bad as some people make it out to be, Vereen certainly should be expected to get a shot at a bigger workload too.

Overall, like in many other threads, the Pats offense has a lot of mouths to feed, so unless there are fewer people to divide the pie, I still think there will be more smaller pieces to go around. To be clear, not knocking Ridley (since some have accused me of that), just looking at the big picture.
Found this article...good readThe Jump to Conclusions Mat: Stevan Ridley

by Alec Shane on Aug 22, 2011 1:07 PM EDT in Opinion/Analysis Pats Pulpit -A New England Patriots Blog

Two preseason games down, two great outings by 3rd round pick Stevan Ridley. Move over, Adrian Peterson, there's a new kid in town.

Well, not really. Ridley is only in AP's league in the "they both play in the NFL" sense. But still, these first two exhibition games have seen Ridley take full advantage of the carries he's been given and his impressive skill set has been on display for both the coaches and the fans. He was the lone bright spot in Thursday night's 2nd half fiasco, and much like a fat man getting behind the wheel of a Honda Civic, he is slowly but surely wedging himself into place in the Patriots' backfield.

However, as solid as Ridley has been as of late, he hasn't been flawless. In fact, a number of areas have stood out over the last month of practices and games that warrant attention. So, before I jump to my conclusion, I want to first break down what I think are his biggest strengths and biggest weaknesses thus far. The good news is that almost all of his shortcomings are very correctable, and with the right mentoring he has the potential to be one of the better all-around backs on this team. Below are the positives and negatives that have been prevalent in Ridley's play thus far.

The Pros

Positive First Step. One of the things that drove Patriots Nation nuts with Laurence Maroney was his maddening 3-step shuffle at the line of scrimmage before he committed to the run (of course, by "committed to the run", I mean a few lateral steps followed by a dive for no gain). I'm happy to report that Ridley does not seem to share Maroney's desire to appear on Dancing with the Stars. Ridley takes the ball and attacks the hole with authority (heh), generating a great first step and establishing his lane well. How a runner approaches gaps in the line is a crucial component to being an effective back, and Ridley is decisive and strong-minded from the moment he receives the handoff. Which is a nice segue into...

Solid Gap Vision. "Seeing the field" is a term that gets thrown around a lot in the National Football League. It means different things for different positions, obviously; for a running back, the ability to see the field connotes an understanding of where the bulk of the defensive pressure is coming from, recognizing the blocking assignments of the offensive linemen, and taking advantage of the gaps created by the various offensive schemes. While reliable gap vision can be improved with coaching, a lot of it is simply instinctive, and Ridley has demonstrated great instincts at seeing holes open up and getting through them. He is still working on his patience - there were a couple of plays on Thursday where he didn't wait long enough for the hole to develop and got stuffed as a result - but overall Ridley seems to understand where his primary openings are and charges at the gap like a suburban teenager armed with her daddy's credit card.

Explosive 2nd Gear. Ridley isn't an exceptionally fast runner and can be chased down by speedier defensive players, but I was impressed with his ability to explode into space and turn on the burners he does have at his disposal. Ridley's legs were on full display during the first drive following Mallett's interception, and while that drive may have ended in a Ridley fumble, I think it was his best overall drive of the game and showed his ability to change speeds at the right time. There is a marked difference between Ridley's 1st and 2nd gear, and although his transition between them isn't as smooth as I'd like it to be (more on that in the cons section), he is able to turn it on once he gets into open space and can clip away sizable chunks of yards at a time.

I feel like there is a landscaping joke to be made somewhere in the last sentence, but since I live in New York City and don't have a yard, I just can't find it. Oh well.

Dependable Hands. The check-down receiver is a scrambling QB's best friend, and the 2nd offense was scrambling quite a bit on Thursday. Ridley was able to haul in 3 passes for 27 yards, including a nice little 13 yard gain that resulted in a 1st down. What makes Ridley's receiving contributions that much more impressive is his relative lack of experience to this point as a receiver, as he is not known as a receiving back and didn't catch a great deal of passes at Cal. I was also impressed with Ridley's knowledge of where the first down marker was and the efforts he made to try and secure a new set of downs each time he caught the ball. All too often younger players will be thinking about running with the ball before they secure the actual reception, and it is refreshing to see a young back that correctly prioritizes the proper steps to effective pass catching.

OK, enough with the glowing admiration. Time to rip Ridley a new one.

The Cons

Weak Blitz Pickups. Weak may be too strong a word to use here, as Ridley has been adequate at picking up blitzes thus far (including a nice stop of charging former Patriot Tyrone McKenzie on the Patriots' 3rd quarter FG drive). But while he hasn't been bad, he hasn't been great, either. While you have to attribute some of it to Ryan Mallett's inability to read the coverages on a few plays, there were definitely instances where Mallett was rushed because Ridley missed his assignment. Furthermore, Ridley tends to carry his bodyweight a little high on his blocks, which leaves him in prime position to get blown up like the bathrooms at Arby's by a smart linebacker coming in low at full speed. As game tape of Ridley piles up, blitzing LBs will be able to exploit his upright blocking style. If only the Patriots had a running back on the roster that is considered one of the best blocking RBs in the game...

I can't say it enough: having Obi-Wan Faulk around is going to prove invaluable for these young running backs.

Leads With His Face. The career of the NFL running back is very much like the career of a stripper: short and spectacular, but destined for a premature and messy end if you don't take care of yourself. While it's always nice to see a runner smash into a defender trying to pick up that extra yard or two, sometimes it's a smarter play to just step out of bounds or fall into the hit to avoid getting your bell rung. A number of Ridley's sideline runs these past two games ended with him lowering his shoulder and taking an unnecessary hit before stepping out of bounds. Sure it's fun to watch, but it's not the recipe for durability in this league. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now and chalk it up to Ridley just trying to prove his durability and toughness to the coaching staff. Plus, he's a rookie with plenty of time to learn the nuances of the position. However, I'd like to see Ridley get a little smarter with his body so he can maintain the same intensity for the entire season.

Lacks Smoothness with Cuts. One of Danny Woodhead's biggest strengths, besides the fact that defenses just can't see the guy behind the mass of O Line bodies, is his ability to cut with speed and conviction. Ridley, not so much: he tends to slow back down to 1st gear before making his cuts upfield. Granted, Ridley is more of a slasher than a cut-and-run type back, but there were a few plays where he got brought down as he slowed his pace looking to make a cut, and I'd like to see that improve. Ridley doesn't have the size to be the bruiser that just runs people over, so he's going to have to work on his ability to cut with fluidity and confidence. Working with Woodhead and Faulk, two great cutters, should help him immensely as the season goes on.

Lame Nickname Potential. This one may be just me. I know I'm not the most creative guy in the world, especially when it comes to bestowing nicknames on people. It's a gift I just don't have, and I've accepted it. However, for the life of me I just can't see someone with a name like Stevan Ridley ever getting a cool nickname. When you look at some of the greatest nicknames this sport has ever seen - Sweetness, Night Train, The Fridge, All Day, Prime Time - their actual names just fit in perfectly with their imparted moniker. All I can think of when I hear Stevan Ridley's name is "Heavin' Stevan" and "Ridley's Believe it or Not." Both of those names are about as cool as I was in Junior High School when I still thought sweatpants and a sweater was a perfectly acceptable outfit (for the record, I still love sweatpants. I just know now that there are only certain places where it's OK to wear them. Like when I'm relaxing at home, or out at a strip club). Let's hope someone more original than I gets to him first and gives him a really cool nickname.

So, with that, the question still remains: is Stevan Ridley a legit NFL-caliber running back? Have we seen enough over the course of these two preseason games and this past month of practices to feel confident in saying he'll be a productive member of this team? Is Stevan Ridley going to be a stud in the National Football League?

Of course he is! After all, this is the Jump to Conclusions Mat, isn't it? If we can't make insane assumptions now, when can we? I have no problem giving Ridley my official Shane Stamp of Approval (note to self: purchase large wooden Shane Stamp of Approval). He's only going to get better as the season goes on, and being part of such a full stable of running backs means he won't have to take on that workhorse role and start to wear out down the stretch. I'm very excited to see what he brings to the table when Tom Brady is under center and New England's very dangerous 1st String tight ends and receivers are on the field, giving opposing defenses plenty to worry about.

I honestly can't remember the last time I had this much fun watching meaningless football games. It seems like every week a new potential Patriots star is born (paging Will Yeatman), and all the excitement and bravado of the regular season is still ahead of us. In fact, this may be the first preseason ever where I get really excited to watch every single play.

Well, every single play except for the kickoff, that is. I really hate this new rule.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2011/8/22/2377384/the-jump-to-conclusions-mat-stevan-ridley

 
Director of Player Personnel Nick Caserio confirmed that RB Steven Ridley "made the most of his opportunity" in Week 3.

The Patriots want Ridley to continue to show improvement and "develop a level of consistency" before he becomes a weekly fixture atop the depth chart. "Last week was basically the first game he played a decent amount," said OC Bill O'Brien. "He has a long way to go, just like any rookie as it relates to the overall scheme and what to do." We expect Ridley's role to increase at BenJarvus Green-Ellis' expense, but this is likely to remain a committee attack dictated by matchups and game flow. Sep 27 - 2:25 PM

Per Rotoworld

I think this says it all... just keep an eye on him.. he has looked good with the opportunities he has been given..

 
Director of Player Personnel Nick Caserio confirmed that RB Steven Ridley "made the most of his opportunity" in Week 3.

The Patriots want Ridley to continue to show improvement and "develop a level of consistency" before he becomes a weekly fixture atop the depth chart. "Last week was basically the first game he played a decent amount," said OC Bill O'Brien. "He has a long way to go, just like any rookie as it relates to the overall scheme and what to do." We expect Ridley's role to increase at BenJarvus Green-Ellis' expense, but this is likely to remain a committee attack dictated by matchups and game flow. Sep 27 - 2:25 PM

Per Rotoworld

I think this says it all... just keep an eye on him.. he has looked good with the opportunities he has been given..
The first part of the paragraph is PURE SPECULATION on Rotoworld's part. But people can pick and choose what they want, I suppose.What was actually said and the source of this was posted earlier in the thread.

 
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Patriots will play the guy that gives them the best chance to win, and I think last week made them realize they have to get more balanced. It remains to be seen if BJGE starts running with the authority he showed last season, or Ridley steps up and eats into his carries.

All the talk about Vereen being drafted before Ridley and thus being the heir apparent is nonsense. Vereen graded out better before getting them on the practice field, that's all being drafted #2 to Ridley's #3 says. After getting to camp, Ridley has shown a lot more than Vereen, that's why he saw the field last week. Hell, if the Patriots were so sure Vereen was the answer, don't you think they would have looked elsewhere with their 3rd pick instead of another RB?

 
Talent will win out; just look at the shiny new TEs up there. Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead? Not much to unseat there. Had there not been a strike, you likely don't have a chance like this (to get him off the WW in week 4).

A lot can be gleaned off that one series in Buffalo, down 7. A few more like that and it's over...so now is the time. Went all-in, this is what it's about really.
How many TEs did the Pats have on the roster when they drafted Gronk and Hernandez? Zero. Tough not to play when you run a race unopposed.I didn't know we were only going back a few years now. And that's not the point exactly; the point is that BB will utilize talent wherever it is. You kind of illustrate my point in a way...that is, if Ridley does prove to be their best back, things will change.

Since you and I already emailed back and forth about this, I again say people that need RB help are going to look at Ridley as a potential savior. People are wanting to first draw a conclusion and then make a scenario and a road map that some how gets them to their desired outcome.

I agree with this, happens all too often and I'll admit I'm somewhat guilty here. However, I have never been convinced on Green-Ellis or Danny Woodhead, it's the system. And the fact they drafted RBs in TWO of the first 3 rounds says as much, to me anyway.

Unlike the TEs, the Pats already had BGJE and Woodhead, who last year combined for 2K+ yards and nearly 20 TD. People suggesting that those two have no track record are kidding themselves. They did fine.

I never suggested as much. What I am suggesting is they are beneficiaries of an insane system. How would those two be doing in say, Kansas City right now?

Yes, I agree that if Ridley is far and away the best, most talented, and most productive back he might see more playing time. But are they going to bench 4 other backs to do so?

No, if he is far and away the best, most talented, he will see a lot more playing time. Talk about jumping to erroneous conclusions, of course they don't all get benched. But take a back seat? Sure, why not? Nobody is arguing Ridley's role at best, isn't still shared. I think the pro-Ridleys are realizing a changing of the guard might be upon us -- happens all the time.

Ridley has had NINE career carries, one of which was for 16 or 18 yards. By extension, that means his other 8 carries were in line with every other Pats back in recent years. So his numbers are inflated from one carry.

Oh come on. You don't mind if I do this :rolleyes: , do you? What was telling is when he was put in the game and what he did with it. BB inserts him when they are down 7 and the game on the line? And he came through. Meanwhile, BJGE got stuffed twice at the goal line...it's perfect. Minute sample and all but it's all we have to go on, otherwise he wouldn't be on the WW now would he? So we're goin on it, big deal. :shrug: That and the eye test, which I said already, he passed for me, albeit in college. We might have been seeing more of him earlier without the strike, remember.

The Pats have had other young backs over the past 10 years. Maroney was a first round pick and didn't ever get a full workload. JR Redmond was taken almost at the same point as Ridley was, and he did not get a ton of work either. As for skill position players, the Pats generally haven't got much rookie production from WRs either.

How does the fact they had backs that flopped affect Ridley exactly? Their track record means little, unless you are saying they just can't evaluate RB talent well. You seem to focus on the position he was taken, imo, too much. That was then...

And what's this about rookie WR production, wha??? Uh, not the most relevant issue here...

While it's true that the Pats will give rookies a bigger role on occasion (McCourty, Mayo, last year's TEs, etc.), most of the time rookies are brought along slowly in NE.

Can't argue with you there, and you know this team WAY better than I, but if there is a position in football where this matters least, it is probably RB. I'll grant you that in this system, not so fast, but still. And the Riddlers in us are thinking down the line anyway, not now.

If Ridley were so clearly a transcendent and uberly talented back, why was he the 7th back taken in the draft? I'm not saying he isn't talented, but where were all the mavens suggesting he was going to be a beast before? I am asking because I don't know. Was Ridley universally thought as the next big thing and I missed it?

Not sure why he was taken 7th but the pedestrian 40 time probably didn't help. Or you might say it says a lot about the rest of his tools that he got taken 7th after that. Regardless, the mavens missed on T.D. and tons of others, didn't they? I just know that I thought he looked great at LSU. Did you not? And he doesn't have to be the next big thing, he has to be better than Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead. Since draft position seems quite important, where were they drafted? Right, they weren't.

THe other "given" that people seem to be making is that Ridley will shine while the other backs will roll over and die. I think it's a stretch that all the other backs are somehow going to have a 2.0 ypc, get hurt, and start fumbling while Ridley will average over 6 yards a carry, stay healthy, and never couch up the ball. One blown pass prtection and Ridley will be in the doghouse, especially if Brady gets decked.

Nobody is saying the other backs will do any of that. We are just thinking he might do things better, it's really not a stretch.

Couldn't agree more on your last point, that's the fear for sure, but since we have no way of knowing, it's the risk we take...which is what exactly? Yeah, next to nothing.

So bottom line, yes, go pick him up if he is on waivers. He is truly a lottery ticket. If his number comes up and you have him, good for you. But I am not 100% convinced that his lottery ticket is worth much more than a lottery ticket from another team. If people can stash him, I don't see why you shouldnt stash him. I am just providing my take on how I see things turning out.

Lottery ticket, yes, we all can agree on that. And nobody is saying anything about 100%. I think they are saying the risk/reward on this one is as good as you'll find out there...right now anyway.

God, that was exhausting. Now I know why I never do this ####. :wall:
Christ, do I have to? Oh what the hell, answers in red (above)...
 
Patriots will play the guy that gives them the best chance to win, and I think last week made them realize they have to get more balanced. It remains to be seen if BJGE starts running with the authority he showed last season, or Ridley steps up and eats into his carries.

All the talk about Vereen being drafted before Ridley and thus being the heir apparent is nonsense. Vereen graded out better before getting them on the practice field, that's all being drafted #2 to Ridley's #3 says. After getting to camp, Ridley has shown a lot more than Vereen, that's why he saw the field last week. Hell, if the Patriots were so sure Vereen was the answer, don't you think they would have looked elsewhere with their 3rd pick instead of another RB?
Honestly, it's more a case of BB looking ahead to 2012 when Faulk is retired, BJGE is quite possibly gone to FA and not resigned and all of a sudden he's staring at little Danny Woodhead as the only RB on the roster. After all the junk they had at RB last year that cycled through, they were in bad need of RB depth which is why Vereen and Ridley made so much sense in hindsight. I think in BB's perfect world for 2012 you'd have a rotation of Vereen (playing the upgraded role of Woody) and Ridley (playing the upgraded role of BJGE) and mix in Danny Woodhead in Kevin Faulk's slot. From a Pats perspective, that has to be the ultimate goal I would think.
 
Beat writer Chris Forsberg had some thoughts this afternoon on Ridley, fwiw;

grandjordanian (San Diego, CA)I really want to see a lot more of Ridley with each game that goes by. I noticed when Woodhead missed his block in Week 2, Ridley was in on the next snap and he's shown his size can be an asset in pass protection. BJGE has sure hands, maybe he is your goal line back, though he's underimpressed this year. Predict how many touches Ridley gets this week?Chris Forsberg (12:31 PM)Let's got with 8 touches for Ridley; Still not an overwhelming amount, but a good change-of-pace back. Green-Ellis has thrived on short yardage, so no need to mess with what's worked there. Need to see more to know how Ridley will do in blitz pickup.
 
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Patriots will play the guy that gives them the best chance to win, and I think last week made them realize they have to get more balanced. It remains to be seen if BJGE starts running with the authority he showed last season, or Ridley steps up and eats into his carries.

All the talk about Vereen being drafted before Ridley and thus being the heir apparent is nonsense. Vereen graded out better before getting them on the practice field, that's all being drafted #2 to Ridley's #3 says. After getting to camp, Ridley has shown a lot more than Vereen, that's why he saw the field last week. Hell, if the Patriots were so sure Vereen was the answer, don't you think they would have looked elsewhere with their 3rd pick instead of another RB?
Honestly, it's more a case of BB looking ahead to 2012 when Faulk is retired, BJGE is quite possibly gone to FA and not resigned and all of a sudden he's staring at little Danny Woodhead as the only RB on the roster. After all the junk they had at RB last year that cycled through, they were in bad need of RB depth which is why Vereen and Ridley made so much sense in hindsight. I think in BB's perfect world for 2012 you'd have a rotation of Vereen (playing the upgraded role of Woody) and Ridley (playing the upgraded role of BJGE) and mix in Danny Woodhead in Kevin Faulk's slot. From a Pats perspective, that has to be the ultimate goal I would think.
Woodhead's role won't change. He has a very specialized role, which he excels at. He's the type of player the Patriots love. Few players are as quick as him in the NFL. Darren Sproles-lite.

I agree they were looking towards the future when they drafted both these guys. They graded Vereen out better, so they took him first. If you asked them at that point which would probably see the field first, they might have said Vereen. The fact remains Ridley has shown them something so far this season. Will it lead to an increased role? Who knows, only time will tell but I'd rather take a flier on someone like Ridley who plays in an explosive offense than someone like Powell who would be running behind a terrible run blocking line. If Ridley can somehow scrape out a role where he sees 10-15 carries a game and some goal line work, his value will skyrocket.

 
I dont think I've missed even one minute of the Patriots regular & pre-season action this year. To me, Ridley just seems to be able to make things happen. He passes the eye-ball test. BJGE is a very reliable back. He's never fumbled the ball. He's work-man-like. If I had to describe him in one word, I think I'd go with 'adequate'. Thats about it. Theres not alot to get excited about him.

I think you're going to continue to see Ridley's touches increase as he gets better at pass protection. He's clearly the better runner and reciever (when compared to BJGE). It wouldnt surprise me to see him finish the year very strongly.
To me, this is the biggest obstacle to leapfrogging BJGE. The Pats move through the air first and foremost, with steady, if unspectacular, but RELIABLE movement on the ground. BJGE has been nothing if not all of these things. Just not sure who you're going to take snaps away from to give them to Ridley/Vereen. The way the Pats RB-injury history has been the past few seasons, you have to wonder if they weren't just drafting RBs for depth this year. Another thing to note is that the Pats haven't exactly hit the bullseye with their offensive skill player picks the past half-decade: Maroney, Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price, Matt Slater and Edelman. Edelman has been ok, bit the rest of these guys have panned out to nil.

I picked up Ridley, so hopefully I'm wrong.

 
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I dont think I've missed even one minute of the Patriots regular & pre-season action this year. To me, Ridley just seems to be able to make things happen. He passes the eye-ball test. BJGE is a very reliable back. He's never fumbled the ball. He's work-man-like. If I had to describe him in one word, I think I'd go with 'adequate'. Thats about it. Theres not alot to get excited about him.

I think you're going to continue to see Ridley's touches increase as he gets better at pass protection. He's clearly the better runner and reciever (when compared to BJGE). It wouldnt surprise me to see him finish the year very strongly.
To me, this is the biggest obstacle to leapfrogging BJGE. The Pats move through the air first and foremost, with steady, if unspectacular, but RELIABLE movement on the ground. BJGE has been nothing if not all of these things. Just not sure who you're going to take snaps away from to give them to Ridley/Vereen. The way the Pats RB-injury history has been the past few seasons, you have to wonder if they weren't just drafting RBs for depth this year. I picked up Ridley, so hopefully I'm wrong.
That's true of last year and the first two weeks vs Miami and San Diego, but last week BJGE underachieved. That's why Ridley saw the field in a key situation. The case is not closed on him though. He scored in weeks 1 and 2, and had a workmanlike 4.3 yards per carry in those weeks. Buffalo has a much improved run D, but BJGE is going nowhere, not yet anyway. He will be given opportunity to show he is still the sure handed RB who rushed for 1000 yards and scored 13 TD's for them. Who knows, what if BJGE had a stomach bug last week? The flu? The Patriots aren't exactly forthcoming with that sort of information.

 
Christ, do I have to? Oh what the hell, answers in red (above)...
I'm not going to go line by line through your post, but YOU noted previously something along the lines of "Talent will win out...look at the shiny new TEs up there" as anectdotal evidence that BB has set a predecent of playing a rookie over a veteran if he's more talented. Then you later call Yudkin out on citing BB's tendency to NOT rely on rookie RBs by saying "their track record means little."I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you (yet), but you're arguing out both sides of your mouth here. You can't cite BB's past actions to support your argument in one line, then disregard it in the next because it refutes your argument.
 
I got this guy with the sixth waiver priority in a 12-team keeper league and it's not like there weren't other teams hurting at the position ahead of me. I think Brady's passing numbers has everyone convinced that the Patriots can't support a viable fantasy RB, but IMHO I think they're dead wrong because:

1) You don't draft two running backs in the first three rounds of the NFL draft unless you're committed to improving the running attack. You have to assume the Patriot front office knew what they had in BJGE and Woodhead heading into the draft since those two players have been in their system for a while. Clearly, they were not satisfied with the depth chart at the position. And you can't scream "best player available" either because many thought the Pats reached for Ridley.

2) They put up Tecmo Bowl like passing numbers in that Buffalo game and still lost. Bill Belichick is a Hall of Fame coach. He knows a running game will keep his defense and the opposing offense off the field.

3) He also realizes offensively they are painfully predictable right now and if a team is able to scheme to take away Welker and Gronkowski then they're going to have trouble moving the ball unless they produce at least the threat of a running game to keep defenses honest.

4) As mentioned earlier in the thread, Pats fans know that New England tends to get more balanced as the weather turns nasty up there later in the year.

I think Ridley is a great stash and hold. By the end of the year, he will be helping a lot of fantasy teams make the playoffs. Just my :2cents: .

 
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I realize things will change, but for right now, the NE RB corps doesn't even rank in the Top 20 in terms of fantasy production. When there is a small pie that gets cut up several way, that doesn't normally lead to big slices. NE should start rushing more and thereby getting more RB production, but that situation is another thing to monitor as the year progresses.

Team RB production in fantasy points through 3 games:

OAK 107.2

SDC 100

BUF 77

PHI 74.6

BAL 73.4

NYG 73.1

NOS 69.9

MIN 62.3

DET 61.6

NYJ 59.8

JAX 57.8

GBP 56.9

HOU 56.6

WAS 56

ATL 55.7

MIA 51.4

CHI 49.9

DEN 48.7

TBB 45.9

KCC 45.2

NEP 44.9

CLE 44.8

ARI 44.6

PIT 43.2

STL 42.8

DAL 41.6

CIN 40.2

IND 38.3

TEN 37.2

SFO 35.2

CAR 34.4

SEA 24

 
I got this guy with the sixth waiver priority in a 12-team keeper league and it's not like there weren't other teams hurting at the position ahead of me. I think Brady's passing numbers has everyone convinced that the Patriots can't support a viable fantasy RB, but IMHO I think they're dead wrong because:1) You don't draft two running backs in the first three rounds of the NFL draft unless you're committed to improving the running attack. You have to assume the Patriot front office knew what they had in BJGE and Woodhead heading into the draft since those two players have been in their system for a while. Clearly, they were not satisfied with the depth chart at the position. And you can't scream "best player available" either because many thought the Pats reached for Ridley.
There was no depth chart in NE coming into the 2011 draft. They had two RBs on their roster, and one of them ( BJGE ) was RFA. They needed to add depth and youth to the position. Those RBs produced over 1500 yards rushing and 18 TDs in 2010. I don't think they drafted these 2 guys to come in and take over this year.
2) They put up Tecmo Bowl like passing numbers in that Buffalo game and still lost. Bill Belichick is a Hall of Fame coach. He knows a running game will keep his defense and the opposing offense off the field. 3) He also realizes offensively they are painfully predictable right now and if a team is able to scheme to take away Welker and Gronkowski then they're going to have trouble moving the ball unless they produce at least the threat of a running game to keep defenses honest.
It's better now than previous years ( Moss/Welker ), but right now, with Hernandez out, I agree. However, assuming Hernandez injury is a short term one, as has been reported, I don't think you can effectively shut down all the passing options in NE unless you're getting to ( and hitting ) Brady very quickly. Hernandez/Branch/Woodhead are all very solid options if the defense takes away Welker and/or Gronk... and I believe it's much harder to take either of those guys away than most receiving optiosn around the league. They each possess a skill set that is tough to shut down.
4) As mentioned earlier in the thread, Pats fans know that New England tends to get more balanced as the weather turns nasty up there later in the year.I think Ridley is a great stash and hold. By the end of the year, he will be helping a lot of fantasy teams make the playoffs. Just my :2cents: .
I agree with the last part, Ridley will likely get more in the mix and could be a viable fantasy option in the second half of the year ( especially if he gets involved in the passing game). I, too, have him stashed away. But, barring injury, I don't think he'll be the primary option in the NE running game this year.
 
I got this guy with the sixth waiver priority in a 12-team keeper league and it's not like there weren't other teams hurting at the position ahead of me. I think Brady's passing numbers has everyone convinced that the Patriots can't support a viable fantasy RB, but IMHO I think they're dead wrong because:

1) You don't draft two running backs in the first three rounds of the NFL draft unless you're committed to improving the running attack.

They were committed to improving a running attack that was top 10 in 2010? :confused:

You have to assume the Patriot front office knew what they had in BJGE and Woodhead heading into the draft since those two players have been in their system for a while.

Depends on your definition of a while. Woodhead had been in the Patriot system for 7 months when they drafted, but 2 of those months were locked-out. I do agree that the Pats front office knew what they had, though, and that was a Free Agent (BJGE) who they couldn't negotiate with and couldn't be positive they would have in 2011 and an undersized RB who only had few months in their system & was definitely not suited to be an every-down RB.

Clearly, they were not satisfied with the depth chart at the position. And you can't scream "best player available" either because many thought the Pats reached for Ridley.

Of course they weren't satisfied with the depth chart at the position. They had 3 RBs well over 30, all coming off injury (1 who retired, 1 who is on the PUP list), an unsigned FA (BJGE), and Woodhead. BTW-it doesn't matter where other teams had Ridley, or what the "experts" think. If Ridley was the BPA on the Pats draft chart, you can scream "best player available" at the top of your lungs, because that is what it means: the best player available, ACCORDING TO THE PATS.

2) They put up Tecmo Bowl like passing numbers in that Buffalo game and still lost. Bill Belichick is a Hall of Fame coach. He knows a running game will keep his defense and the opposing offense off the field.

If they were so determined to improve their running game, and BB is a Hall of Fame coach (both YOUR arguments), why didn't they run more when they were up 21-0? You're contradicting yourself. Ridley was active; if he is part of the key to improving their run game, why didn't BB use him to keep the opposing offense off the field?

3) He also realizes offensively they are painfully predictable right now and if a team is able to scheme to take away Welker and Gronkowski then they're going to have trouble moving the ball unless they produce at least the threat of a running game to keep defenses honest.

They are a painfully predictable offense that is #2 in scoring so far? :confused:

4) As mentioned earlier in the thread, Pats fans know that New England tends to get more balanced as the weather turns nasty up there later in the year.

While this is technically true, it is a VERY misleading statement. They don't go from a tem who throws 70% of the time to a team that runs 70% of the time. Over the past 5 years (with the exception of 2008, when Brady was hurt), NE has "gotten more balanced" by rushing between 2% and 10% more often than in Sept-Nov(from rushing about 30% of the time to anywhere between 33% & 38%). I don't see that slight bump is going to make Ridley a FF savior, especially when he's going to have to share that slight bump with other NE RBs.

I think Ridley is a great stash and hold. By the end of the year, he will be helping a lot of fantasy teams make the playoffs. Just my :2cents: .

You're entitled to your opinion, but IMO, it's based on faulty logic.
 
'Bayhawks said:
I got this guy with the sixth waiver priority in a 12-team keeper league and it's not like there weren't other teams hurting at the position ahead of me. I think Brady's passing numbers has everyone convinced that the Patriots can't support a viable fantasy RB, but IMHO I think they're dead wrong because:

1) You don't draft two running backs in the first three rounds of the NFL draft unless you're committed to improving the running attack.

They were committed to improving a running attack that was top 10 in 2010? :confused:

You have to assume the Patriot front office knew what they had in BJGE and Woodhead heading into the draft since those two players have been in their system for a while.

Depends on your definition of a while. Woodhead had been in the Patriot system for 7 months when they drafted, but 2 of those months were locked-out. I do agree that the Pats front office knew what they had, though, and that was a Free Agent (BJGE) who they couldn't negotiate with and couldn't be positive they would have in 2011 and an undersized RB who only had few months in their system & was definitely not suited to be an every-down RB.

Clearly, they were not satisfied with the depth chart at the position. And you can't scream "best player available" either because many thought the Pats reached for Ridley.

Of course they weren't satisfied with the depth chart at the position. They had 3 RBs well over 30, all coming off injury (1 who retired, 1 who is on the PUP list), an unsigned FA (BJGE), and Woodhead. BTW-it doesn't matter where other teams had Ridley, or what the "experts" think. If Ridley was the BPA on the Pats draft chart, you can scream "best player available" at the top of your lungs, because that is what it means: the best player available, ACCORDING TO THE PATS.

2) They put up Tecmo Bowl like passing numbers in that Buffalo game and still lost. Bill Belichick is a Hall of Fame coach. He knows a running game will keep his defense and the opposing offense off the field.

If they were so determined to improve their running game, and BB is a Hall of Fame coach (both YOUR arguments), why didn't they run more when they were up 21-0? You're contradicting yourself. Ridley was active; if he is part of the key to improving their run game, why didn't BB use him to keep the opposing offense off the field?

3) He also realizes offensively they are painfully predictable right now and if a team is able to scheme to take away Welker and Gronkowski then they're going to have trouble moving the ball unless they produce at least the threat of a running game to keep defenses honest.

They are a painfully predictable offense that is #2 in scoring so far? :confused:

4) As mentioned earlier in the thread, Pats fans know that New England tends to get more balanced as the weather turns nasty up there later in the year.

While this is technically true, it is a VERY misleading statement. They don't go from a tem who throws 70% of the time to a team that runs 70% of the time. Over the past 5 years (with the exception of 2008, when Brady was hurt), NE has "gotten more balanced" by rushing between 2% and 10% more often than in Sept-Nov(from rushing about 30% of the time to anywhere between 33% & 38%). I don't see that slight bump is going to make Ridley a FF savior, especially when he's going to have to share that slight bump with other NE RBs.

I think Ridley is a great stash and hold. By the end of the year, he will be helping a lot of fantasy teams make the playoffs. Just my :2cents: .

You're entitled to your opinion, but IMO, it's based on faulty logic.
NE was obviously committed to improving their run game and anyone who thinks Benny is more than a jag is in the minority imho.The fact that NE "only" gave the rookie 7 touches last week is hardly an indictment on Ridleys ability or the coachings staffs faith in him.

NE was painfully predictable (relatively) in last years playoff loss to NY and IMHO BB saw what Pitt did on the ground to NY in the very next game (in comparison to what NE did) and he knew he needed to improve his running game.

NEs running game has been very productive over the last 5 years and I would expect that it will be again this year. Some can assume the load will be shared equally among 4 backs (similar to what David said last year at this point in the season..IE there is no value), I didn't agree then and I do not agree now with that assumption.

Ridley is a very logical pickup imho. Would I drop Ingram for him as someone asked earlier? No I wouldn't; would I drop Carter or Deji Karim? Yes I would, they both need injuries to be relevent and I don't think Ridley does; I think there is a significant chance he takes the job away from Benny.

Ridley might well end up being irrelevent, maybe he fumbles his chance away or wilts, but we are talking about end of the bench roster spots and investing for later in the year. I believe there is a real chance that Ridley could be productive and imho he is going to get the oportunity (he doesn't need an injury) to make it happen. :popcorn:

 
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At some point, this should really be a discussion about Stevan Ridley's talent level rather than the Patriots depth chart. How talented is he? Any concern that he probably had the slowest 40 time of any of the top RB's in this rookie class with something like a 4.66/4.67? I saw even BJGE ran a 4.6 heading into his rookie season. I'm quite aware that 40 times are extremely misleading, but how many elite RB's in recent memory were 4.66 guys? Will a lack of speed pigeon hole him into being just a short yardage/goal line back?

I don't say this to knock him as much as I'm just curious?
Arian Foster ran a 4.69 on his pro day.
 
:lol: at people who think they can predict what the Great Hoodie will do going forward.

Some things to remember about the Pats running attack:

- young backs have had trouble fitting in and being productive. The scheme is very complex, with tons of personnel groups, reads and changes at the line. It's typically taken younger backs a few years to really settle into the scheme.

- this has been a committee back field for BB's entire tenure. Yes, there have been some productive players that have been worth owning, but non of them have been real "bell-cow" backs.

- two types of backs succeed here: the Kevin Faulk/ Danny Woodhead type and the Corey Dillon, Antwan Smith, BJGE type. They usually have a pass catcher, third down type thatbgets some extra play because of the spread offense and a main SD/between the tackles guy. Right now those players are Woodhead and BJGE. what you see of Ridley is just some work for some fresh legs. For now.

- ball protection, pass protection,performing as an outlet for a broken play, knowing how to execute the play, playing hard, and doing what you are told are all very important. It might sound insane to say that these things are as important as what kind of yardage you gain when you get the rock, but I think that in the Pats system they are, or at least they are really close.

Unless BJGE or Woodhead gets hurt, I don't see Ridley being a major factor this year. I like what I see, and I think he has a lot to offer in Dynasty leagues, but you are unlikely to find him on one of my rosters in a redraft unless an injury comes into play. No matter what your eyeballs are telling you when he runs, he's a rookie that had no training camp coming into a very complex offense. The veteran players will handle most of the workload this season IMO.

Take it FWIW. I am a season ticket holder and don't miss much Pats football. I pay more attention to team trends than to what a guy did last week. How many times have people been torched chasing the new hot Patriots player only to find a slim stat line the week after the guy had a hot game. Show me a trend and then I'll think about throwing some resources at it. Not until.

 
Is injury the only way BJGE loses playing time?

He averaged 4.4ypc last season, if he maintains a 3.5ypc could he see his playing time slip or does the no fumbling thing trump all?

 
NE was obviously committed to improving their run game and anyone who thinks Benny is more than a jag is in the minority imho.

Then why haven't they done anything different? If they were so "obviously committed" to improving their run game, why have they continued to throw 65% of the time and run 35% of the time? They have been up big in all 3 games, yet didn't utilize the run game they were "committed" to improve to eat the clock. You're welcome to your opinion, and it sounds logical, but it IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE FACTS!

The fact that NE "only" gave the rookie 7 touches last week is hardly an indictment on Ridleys ability or the coachings staffs faith in him.

I can't find where I said it was. But the fact that NE "only" gave the rookie 7 touches hardly belies the fact that he is on the cusp of a huge workload increase, either.

NE was painfully predictable (relatively) in last years playoff loss to NY and IMHO BB saw what Pitt did on the ground to NY in the very next game (in comparison to what NE did) and he knew he needed to improve his running game.

Then why hasn't he? Are you suggesting that he is waiting until the playoffs to unleash a completely different style of offense. BB's too smart a coach for that, if he wants to morph the Pats into a different kind of offense, he's not going to wait until it's do-or-die time. Again, you are welcome to your opinion, but it IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE FACTS.

NEs running game has been very productive over the last 5 years and I would expect that it will be again this year. Some can assume the load will be shared equally among 4 backs (similar to what David said last year at this point in the season..IE there is no value), I didn't agree then and I do not agree now with that assumption.

He was wrong last year because of injury. BJGE and Woodhead were the only really healthy backs at the end of last year, and Woodhead isn't an everydown back, so BJGE got a lot of carries. Are you predicting multiple injuries for this season?

Ridley is a very logical pickup imho. Would I drop Ingram for him as someone asked earlier? No I wouldn't; would I drop Carter or Deji Karim? Yes I would, they both need injuries to be relevent and I don't think Ridley does; I think there is a significant chance he takes the job away from Benny.

Based on what? Your opinion? You have no real FACTS to support that thought.

Ridley might well end up being irrelevent, maybe he fumbles his chance away or wilts, but we are talking about end of the bench roster spots and investing for later in the year. I believe there is a real chance that Ridley could be productive and imho he is going to get the oportunity (he doesn't need an injury) to make it happen. :popcorn:
I agree that he is worth a bench spot, but your gut instinct that he'll be productive, while possible, isn't based on facts.
 
NE was obviously committed to improving their run game and anyone who thinks Benny is more than a jag is in the minority imho.

Then why haven't they done anything different? If they were so "obviously committed" to improving their run game, why have they continued to throw 65% of the time and run 35% of the time? They have been up big in all 3 games, yet didn't utilize the run game they were "committed" to improve to eat the clock. You're welcome to your opinion, and it sounds logical, but it IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE FACTS!

The fact that NE "only" gave the rookie 7 touches last week is hardly an indictment on Ridleys ability or the coachings staffs faith in him.

I can't find where I said it was. But the fact that NE "only" gave the rookie 7 touches hardly belies the fact that he is on the cusp of a huge workload increase, either.

NE was painfully predictable (relatively) in last years playoff loss to NY and IMHO BB saw what Pitt did on the ground to NY in the very next game (in comparison to what NE did) and he knew he needed to improve his running game.

Then why hasn't he? Are you suggesting that he is waiting until the playoffs to unleash a completely different style of offense. BB's too smart a coach for that, if he wants to morph the Pats into a different kind of offense, he's not going to wait until it's do-or-die time. Again, you are welcome to your opinion, but it IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE FACTS.

NEs running game has been very productive over the last 5 years and I would expect that it will be again this year. Some can assume the load will be shared equally among 4 backs (similar to what David said last year at this point in the season..IE there is no value), I didn't agree then and I do not agree now with that assumption.

He was wrong last year because of injury. BJGE and Woodhead were the only really healthy backs at the end of last year, and Woodhead isn't an everydown back, so BJGE got a lot of carries. Are you predicting multiple injuries for this season?

Ridley is a very logical pickup imho. Would I drop Ingram for him as someone asked earlier? No I wouldn't; would I drop Carter or Deji Karim? Yes I would, they both need injuries to be relevent and I don't think Ridley does; I think there is a significant chance he takes the job away from Benny.

Based on what? Your opinion? You have no real FACTS to support that thought.

Ridley might well end up being irrelevent, maybe he fumbles his chance away or wilts, but we are talking about end of the bench roster spots and investing for later in the year. I believe there is a real chance that Ridley could be productive and imho he is going to get the oportunity (he doesn't need an injury) to make it happen. :popcorn:
I agree that he is worth a bench spot, but your gut instinct that he'll be productive, while possible, isn't based on facts.
Part of FF is having strong opinions and I respect yours. I love crossing swords and having a good clean spirited debate; I sincerely hope that is how my posts will be interpreted.

Drafting 2 RBs in the first 4 rounds is a fact and imho it is irefutable evidence that suggests NE wantd to improve their running game. I don't see how anyone can logically claim otherwise.

Claiming the patriots have to change their pass run ratio immediatly in order to proove they tried to improve their running game is not a fact, it is opinion.

David was wrong last year in part because even after the injuries he didn't think Benny (or the starting NE rb for that matter) was realy worth picking up or starting (or at least he implied that with his posts). I can post the thread if you like. Benny went on to be a relativley productive ff player the rest of the year.

I never claimed my opinion that Ridley has a significant chance to replace Benny was a fact. But there most certainly are facts to support that opinion. Benny is a jag (fact), "pedestrian" was a word David used to describe him at 1 point last year, Ridley is a relatively high draft pick (fact), who is has looked good (fact) and is already taking snaps away from him (fact). Those are all facts whether you care to acknowledge them or not.

I don't claim to know what BB will do with regard to the offense, but I do know one thing about BB that I consider to be a fact. He will play the player(s) who he thinks give his team the best chance to win. We know what Benny can do, reliable, hard worker, stays healthy, doesn't fumble. Now that may not sound like much, but it is a heck of a lot easier said than done so I don't think it is any sort of slam dunk Ridley pushes him to the curb. Ridley has a long way to go; all I am saying and have ever said is the possibility that Ridley outplays Benny and takes his job is real. I am also saying that if he does that he could have some real value as the season wears on.

What I have seen in Ridley in comparison to Benny is that Ridley seems a little quicker/faster and he seems to catch the ball well. Granted it is a small sample size, but I would be shocked at this point if they do not give the kid every oportunity to take Bennys job. Is the kid up to the task? We do not know, he had no off season, he might not be able to handle his assignments, he might fumble, etc, etc. However, 7 touches in his 3rd game, on the road in a close game indicates to me they like him and he is going to have an oportunity here. You and David and others are free to come up with an endless list of reason why it can't possibly happen and you may very well be right. Reasonable minds can dissagree ;)

 
Part of FF is having strong opinions and I respect yours. I love crossing swords and having a good clean spirited debate; I sincerely hope that is how my posts will be interpreted.

I hope miy posts came across that way, as well, as that's how they were intended.

Drafting 2 RBs in the first 4 rounds is a fact and imho it is irefutable evidence that suggests NE wantd to improve their running game. I don't see how anyone can logically claim otherwise.

IMO, it could be evidence that they wanted to improve their running game. It could also be evidence that those 2 players were the BPA on their board when their picks came. Or (& I tend to think this is the case), they could have realized that Taylor was done (even if he didn't retire), & Faulk & Morris are both old & coming off injury. They needed to replace 2 of those guys (Taylor, Faulk, Morris), and maybe all 3. Don't you think it's logical to draft 2 RBs when you are worried you might be losing 3, especially with lock-out making free agency such a question mark this offseason?

Claiming the patriots have to change their pass run ratio immediatly in order to proove they tried to improve their running game is not a fact, it is opinion.

David was wrong last year in part because even after the injuries he didn't think Benny (or the starting NE rb for that matter) was realy worth picking up or starting (or at least he implied that with his posts). I can post the thread if you like. Benny went on to be a relativley productive ff player the rest of the year.

You don't need to post the thread, I read it then (I may even have posted in it). I picked up BJGE, despite that thread, and I obviously benefited last year. I don't recall him saying BJGE would not be startable, however (I could be wrong, though). Perhaps he is wrong again, I don't know. But, I haven't seen any indication from the Pats coaching staff that would suggest that BJGE is in danger of being replace any time soon.

I never claimed my opinion that Ridley has a significant chance to replace Benny was a fact. But there most certainly are facts to support that opinion. Benny is a jag (fact), "pedestrian" was a word David used to describe him at 1 point last year, Ridley is a relatively high draft pick (fact), who is has looked good (fact) and is already taking snaps away from him (fact). Those are all facts whether you care to acknowledge them or not.

What is a "jag?" Because I see BJGE as a RB who has a 1000 yard season to his credit, a 4.2 career YPC, is a great blocker, NEVER fumbles, and has a nose for the end-zone. It doesn't matter what I, you, Yudkin, or anyone else thinks, though. As long as the NE coaches think he is doing the job, he'll get reps. That doesn't mean Ridly won't get carries, but it does mean (IMO) that he will not (barring injury) be supplanted by Ridley. At worse, Ridley and he will share the carries that BJGE might otherwise have had all to himself. In that case, neither player will be valuable, FF speaking, of course.

I don't claim to know what BB will do with regard to the offense, but I do know one thing about BB that I consider to be a fact. He will play the player(s) who he thinks give his team the best chance to win. We know what Benny can do, reliable, hard worker, stays healthy, doesn't fumble. Now that may not sound like much, but it is a heck of a lot easier said than done so I don't think it is any sort of slam dunk Ridley pushes him to the curb. Ridley has a long way to go; all I am saying and have ever said is the possibility that Ridley outplays Benny and takes his job is real. I am also saying that if he does that he could have some real value as the season wears on.

While you didn't say it was a slam dunk Ridley would supplant BJGE, you did say there was a "signficant chance" he'd take the job away from Benny. I don't think there is, again barring injury, for the reasons that you just mentioned. As I've previously posted, worst case scenario (IMO) for BJGE is that Ridley takes 1/2 the touches he'd have normally received. In that scenario, NEITHER RB would have real FF value.

What I have seen in Ridley in comparison to Benny is that Ridley seems a little quicker/faster and he seems to catch the ball well. Granted it is a small sample size, but I would be shocked at this point if they do not give the kid every oportunity to take Bennys job. Is the kid up to the task? We do not know, he had no off season, he might not be able to handle his assignments, he might fumble, etc, etc. However, 7 touches in his 3rd game, on the road in a close game indicates to me they like him and he is going to have an oportunity here. You and David and others are free to come up with an endless list of reason why it can't possibly happen and you may very well be right. Reasonable minds can dissagree ;)

I've never said it can't happen, and I have Ridley on my bench, because I see him as being that "lottery pick." If he were able to take the job (through injury or performance), I think he'd be valuable. I just don't think it's likely to happen, without injury. In fact, for FF purposes, I think Ridley could make the RB position in NE less valuable for FF purposes, because he could cause that pie to be split among one more guy, thus de-valuing all involved
 
Part of FF is having strong opinions and I respect yours. I love crossing swords and having a good clean spirited debate; I sincerely hope that is how my posts will be interpreted.

I hope miy posts came across that way, as well, as that's how they were intended.

Drafting 2 RBs in the first 4 rounds is a fact and imho it is irefutable evidence that suggests NE wantd to improve their running game. I don't see how anyone can logically claim otherwise.

IMO, it could be evidence that they wanted to improve their running game. It could also be evidence that those 2 players were the BPA on their board when their picks came. Or (& I tend to think this is the case), they could have realized that Taylor was done (even if he didn't retire), & Faulk & Morris are both old & coming off injury. They needed to replace 2 of those guys (Taylor, Faulk, Morris), and maybe all 3. Don't you think it's logical to draft 2 RBs when you are worried you might be losing 3, especially with lock-out making free agency such a question mark this offseason?

Claiming the patriots have to change their pass run ratio immediatly in order to proove they tried to improve their running game is not a fact, it is opinion.

David was wrong last year in part because even after the injuries he didn't think Benny (or the starting NE rb for that matter) was realy worth picking up or starting (or at least he implied that with his posts). I can post the thread if you like. Benny went on to be a relativley productive ff player the rest of the year.

You don't need to post the thread, I read it then (I may even have posted in it). I picked up BJGE, despite that thread, and I obviously benefited last year. I don't recall him saying BJGE would not be startable, however (I could be wrong, though). Perhaps he is wrong again, I don't know. But, I haven't seen any indication from the Pats coaching staff that would suggest that BJGE is in danger of being replace any time soon.

I never claimed my opinion that Ridley has a significant chance to replace Benny was a fact. But there most certainly are facts to support that opinion. Benny is a jag (fact), "pedestrian" was a word David used to describe him at 1 point last year, Ridley is a relatively high draft pick (fact), who is has looked good (fact) and is already taking snaps away from him (fact). Those are all facts whether you care to acknowledge them or not.

What is a "jag?" Because I see BJGE as a RB who has a 1000 yard season to his credit, a 4.2 career YPC, is a great blocker, NEVER fumbles, and has a nose for the end-zone. It doesn't matter what I, you, Yudkin, or anyone else thinks, though. As long as the NE coaches think he is doing the job, he'll get reps. That doesn't mean Ridly won't get carries, but it does mean (IMO) that he will not (barring injury) be supplanted by Ridley. At worse, Ridley and he will share the carries that BJGE might otherwise have had all to himself. In that case, neither player will be valuable, FF speaking, of course.

I don't claim to know what BB will do with regard to the offense, but I do know one thing about BB that I consider to be a fact. He will play the player(s) who he thinks give his team the best chance to win. We know what Benny can do, reliable, hard worker, stays healthy, doesn't fumble. Now that may not sound like much, but it is a heck of a lot easier said than done so I don't think it is any sort of slam dunk Ridley pushes him to the curb. Ridley has a long way to go; all I am saying and have ever said is the possibility that Ridley outplays Benny and takes his job is real. I am also saying that if he does that he could have some real value as the season wears on.

While you didn't say it was a slam dunk Ridley would supplant BJGE, you did say there was a "signficant chance" he'd take the job away from Benny. I don't think there is, again barring injury, for the reasons that you just mentioned. As I've previously posted, worst case scenario (IMO) for BJGE is that Ridley takes 1/2 the touches he'd have normally received. In that scenario, NEITHER RB would have real FF value.

What I have seen in Ridley in comparison to Benny is that Ridley seems a little quicker/faster and he seems to catch the ball well. Granted it is a small sample size, but I would be shocked at this point if they do not give the kid every oportunity to take Bennys job. Is the kid up to the task? We do not know, he had no off season, he might not be able to handle his assignments, he might fumble, etc, etc. However, 7 touches in his 3rd game, on the road in a close game indicates to me they like him and he is going to have an oportunity here. You and David and others are free to come up with an endless list of reason why it can't possibly happen and you may very well be right. Reasonable minds can dissagree ;)

I've never said it can't happen, and I have Ridley on my bench, because I see him as being that "lottery pick." If he were able to take the job (through injury or performance), I think he'd be valuable. I just don't think it's likely to happen, without injury. In fact, for FF purposes, I think Ridley could make the RB position in NE less valuable for FF purposes, because he could cause that pie to be split among one more guy, thus de-valuing all involved
Thats all good and you may be absolutely right.

 
The shark move is to pick up Ridley now before he breaks out. If he puts up 60+ rushing and 30+ receiving this week, those of us who are 3-0 or 2-1 will have almost no chance of getting him. That is of course if you have the room. I dropped Britt to get him. No one is suggesting that you drop a WR3 or your RB handcuff. I think all the signs point to an increase in touches for Ridley. He is taking carries from the incumbent who is not injured. He was inserted when they were down 7 and the game was on the line. I think his upside is HUGE. He could be a dynamic back in a high scoring offense. I think this week will tell the tale. The problem is, if you wait, you will have to pay more or not get him at all. Lotto ticket is somewhat true here though I would say it is getting one knowing the first 2 numbers.

 
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The whole idea (and this applies to all players) is to pick up players before they break out. Ridley may be a total bust tomorrow and beyond. But he has shown promise to the point where he should be rostered. I dont know why anyone is arguing this point

 
Blount, Torain, etc. last year are perfect examles why it makes sense to roster these guys - sure, it's a long shot, but when they hit it can make the year.

 
At some point, this should really be a discussion about Stevan Ridley's talent level rather than the Patriots depth chart. How talented is he? Any concern that he probably had the slowest 40 time of any of the top RB's in this rookie class with something like a 4.66/4.67? I saw even BJGE ran a 4.6 heading into his rookie season. I'm quite aware that 40 times are extremely misleading, but how many elite RB's in recent memory were 4.66 guys? Will a lack of speed pigeon hole him into being just a short yardage/goal line back?

I don't say this to knock him as much as I'm just curious?
Arian Foster ran a 4.69 on his pro day.
Not a bad comparison. Foster has a 3.3 ypc and is backing up Ben Tate IIRC.
 
The last few posts really get to the point.

Both the pro-Ridley and the anti-Ridley folks have very valid points, and truth be told, nobody knows how this will play out.

But here's the thing:

If you're pro-Ridley and pick him up, if you're wrong it's easy to drop him in a month.

If you're anti-Ridley and pass on him, if you're wrong you'll never get him, and quite possibly could have him kicking your butt come playoff time.

 
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The shark move is to pick up Ridley now before he breaks out. If he puts up 60+ rushing and 30+ receiving this week, those of us who are 3-0 or 2-1 will have almost no chance of getting him. That is of course if you have the room. I dropped Britt to get him. No one is suggesting that you drop a WR3 or your RB handcuff. I think all the signs point to an increase in touches for Ridley. He is taking carries from the incumbent who is not injured. He was inserted when they were down 7 and the game was on the line. I think his upside is HUGE. He could be a dynamic back in a high scoring offense. I think this week will tell the tale. The problem is, if you wait, you will have to pay more or not get him at all. Lotto ticket is somewhat true here though I would say it is getting one knowing the first 2 numbers.
What free agent player isn't a lotto ticket? I do agree with you.
 
'davearm said:
The last few posts really get to the point.Both the pro-Ridley and the anti-Ridley folks have very valid points, and truth be told, nobody knows how this will play out.But here's the thing:If you're pro-Ridley and pick him up, if you're wrong it's easy to drop him in a month.If you're anti-Ridley and pass on him, if you're wrong you'll never get him, and quite possibly could have him kicking your butt come playoff time.
:goodposting: Regardless of the NE draft reasons for getting Vereen/Ridley, regardless of NE's pass/run ratio and the RB play breakdown, this is a player that with limited playing time has shown upside, and could be valuable as the season wears on. If you can fit him on the end of your bench, it may pay off. Given what I've seen of him, if the opportunity presents itself to Ridley, I think it'll pay off big. Whether that opportunity happens in 2011 is the guess.
 
'Shermanator said:
The whole idea (and this applies to all players) is to pick up players before they break out. Ridley may be a total bust tomorrow and beyond. But he has shown promise to the point where he should be rostered. I dont know why anyone is arguing this point
As Bayhawks revealed, he is a BJGE owner, which is why he is taking the counter position; although he admits he stashed Ridley also, which I think is pretty funny. He believes his position but he doesn't believe it enough not to put Ridley on his bench as insurance. I love the hypocrisy on this forum sometimes.
 
'Shermanator said:
The whole idea (and this applies to all players) is to pick up players before they break out. Ridley may be a total bust tomorrow and beyond. But he has shown promise to the point where he should be rostered. I dont know why anyone is arguing this point
As Bayhawks revealed, he is a BJGE owner, which is why he is taking the counter position; although he admits he stashed Ridley also, which I think is pretty funny. He believes his position but he doesn't believe it enough not to put Ridley on his bench as insurance. I love the hypocrisy on this forum sometimes.
You might want to read the thread again. I revealed that LAST SEASON I owned BJGE, despite Yudkin not believing he would assume a major role. THIS SEASON I have Ridley stashed on the end of my bench as a late-auction "lottery pick." I've stated several times that I don't think Ridley replaces BJGE, but if injury occurs, I like his potential in NE's offense. There's no hypocrisy, merely a lack of reading comprehension on your part.
 
'Deaddawg said:
The shark move is to pick up Ridley now before he breaks out. If he puts up 60+ rushing and 30+ receiving this week, those of us who are 3-0 or 2-1 will have almost no chance of getting him.
"The Shark Move Is To Pick Up [Player X] Before He Breaks Out" is great schtick. :thumbup:
 

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