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Tavon Austin - Upside (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
cstu
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Finally...
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
About time! Not like I was relying on him this year but it's good to see signs of life for the future.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Xue
Footballguy
Looked special on the punt return, but not the 2 receptions. Chris Givens would have easily done the same things on the receptions. Outran the corner on the 57-yarder. Something Givens has already done many times before. Ran a pick play with a simple crossing route on the 81-yarder, made one guy miss. Didn't have to do anything special other than run really fast.
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
LOL He's going to be the #1 waiver pick this week and then next week he will go back to sucking.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
to say austin's receiving TDs weren't special except for being really fast is like saying larry allen didn't make a special block except for being really powerful...
speed is his #1 attribute, subtracting that out of the equation would take away what he is best at...
machete kills, its what he does... austin flies, its what he does...
if he keeps exploding by DBs to get wide open downfield and past defenders in the open field, people will start to call him special...
if not for a few drops and penalties, he would have close to 10 TDs already, with six games left...
highlights of the three TDs...
on the punt return, it looked like the punter should have had the angle, but austin was going to outrun him... someone on the STL return team almost blocked him in the back, which would have negated it (again!), but he eased up, just lightly touched the punter, than maybe they got their feet tangled and he fell (maybe the punter would have had a chance to bring down austin otherwise, it might have been close)...
the first receiving TD, he beat the DB by about five yards, givens probably could have also, but givens has great deep speed, so if that is dismissing him in some way, that is a puzzling basis on which to do it...
i disagree he didn't look special on the second receiving TD... he took a short pass and beat the underneath defender to the right sideline, and it was a bad job by the deep defender who he turned around, but he split them and than exploded past both of them in the open field... again, to say he is just fast misses the point, imo... at the end, he turned on some extra gear, and neither defender was even in the frame... from another angle, it looked like he had about two car lengths of separation (that's not easy, don't try that at home)... what is that, if not special?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111004/2013/REG10/rams@colts#menu=highlights&tab=recap
speed is his #1 attribute, subtracting that out of the equation would take away what he is best at...
machete kills, its what he does... austin flies, its what he does...
if he keeps exploding by DBs to get wide open downfield and past defenders in the open field, people will start to call him special...
if not for a few drops and penalties, he would have close to 10 TDs already, with six games left...
highlights of the three TDs...
on the punt return, it looked like the punter should have had the angle, but austin was going to outrun him... someone on the STL return team almost blocked him in the back, which would have negated it (again!), but he eased up, just lightly touched the punter, than maybe they got their feet tangled and he fell (maybe the punter would have had a chance to bring down austin otherwise, it might have been close)...
the first receiving TD, he beat the DB by about five yards, givens probably could have also, but givens has great deep speed, so if that is dismissing him in some way, that is a puzzling basis on which to do it...
i disagree he didn't look special on the second receiving TD... he took a short pass and beat the underneath defender to the right sideline, and it was a bad job by the deep defender who he turned around, but he split them and than exploded past both of them in the open field... again, to say he is just fast misses the point, imo... at the end, he turned on some extra gear, and neither defender was even in the frame... from another angle, it looked like he had about two car lengths of separation (that's not easy, don't try that at home)... what is that, if not special?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111004/2013/REG10/rams@colts#menu=highlights&tab=recap
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
It's just unsettling when an inconsistently used player scores 2 long TD's...on his only 2 catches. There are still lots of questions about his usage.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
absolutely...
I put up the highlights so others could judge for themselves if either of the receiving TDs were examples of something more than just running really fast.
bulger2holt
Footballguy
Yeah, the the Rams were really missing those 9 completions from Clemons. Has nothing to do with the D stepping up and the emergence of Stacy. does it?jurb26 said:
25.7 pts given up with Bradford, 130.5 yds rushing against
16.7 pts given up with Clemens, 87.0 yds rushing against
71.8 yards/game rushing for Rams with Bradford (-58.7 differential)
166.7 yds/game rushing for Rams with Clemens (+79.7 differential)
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MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The Rams could really use a guy like Tavon Austin on their team.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
But he didn't say that the Rams won because of Clemmens and because Bradford didn't play. I think his only point was that perhaps Austin's breakout was related to Bradford not playing. I don't buy that, but its not a ridiculous premise either. Bradford hasn't been a great deep passer at the pro level. One of Autin's long TDs yesterday was a short pass and run though.TheFanatic said:And the Bradford haters need to do their homework. He schooled you.jurb26 said:
Bradford supporters are so over sensitive.
Khy
Footballguy
Yeah, I guess we have differing opinions on what "special" is considered on these boards. Me personally? I consider speed like that special. He made those DBs look like Peyton Manning trying to catch an average player. It's not just speed, it's blazing speed that only maybe 4-5 players in the league possess. You can claim they're not 'special' plays but they really are if you look at them right. The first TD he makes a half a second shoulder push to the inside and it's enough to lock up the defender for Tavon to blow right past him. It wasn't a blown coverage, any CB would fall prey to that kind of move if they bite the inside at all. The only way to defend that properly is staying on the outside and not biting on the inside possibility. Cause if you even hesitate for 0.001 seconds, Austin has the speed to burn you. And that's what you saw there.to say austin's receiving TDs weren't special except for being really fast is like saying larry allen didn't make a special block except for being really powerful...
speed is his #1 attribute, subtracting that out of the equation would take away what he is best at...
machete kills, its what he does... austin flies, its what he does...
if he keeps exploding by DBs to get wide open downfield and past defenders in the open field, people will start to call him special...
if not for a few drops and penalties, he would have close to 10 TDs already, with six games left...
highlights of the three TDs...
on the punt return, it looked like the punter should have had the angle, but austin was going to outrun him... someone on the STL return team almost blocked him in the back, which would have negated it (again!), but he eased up, just lightly touched the punter, than maybe they got their feet tangled and he fell (maybe the punter would have had a chance to bring down austin otherwise, it might have been close)...
the first receiving TD, he beat the DB by about five yards, givens probably could have also, but givens has great deep speed, so if that is dismissing him in some way, that is a puzzling basis on which to do it...
i disagree he didn't look special on the second receiving TD... he took a short pass and beat the underneath defender to the right sideline, and it was a bad job by the deep defender who he turned around, but he split them and than exploded past both of them in the open field... again, to say he is just fast misses the point, imo... at the end, he turned on some extra gear, and neither defender was even in the frame... from another angle, it looked like he had about two car lengths of separation (that's not easy, don't try that at home)... what is that, if not special?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111004/2013/REG10/rams@colts#menu=highlights&tab=recap
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
That's not true at all.Yeah, I guess we have differing opinions on what "special" is considered on these boards. Me personally? I consider speed like that special. He made those DBs look like Peyton Manning trying to catch an average player. It's not just speed, it's blazing speed that only maybe 4-5 players in the league possess. You can claim they're not 'special' plays but they really are if you look at them right. The first TD he makes a half a second shoulder push to the inside and it's enough to lock up the defender for Tavon to blow right past him. It wasn't a blown coverage, any CB would fall prey to that kind of move if they bite the inside at all. The only way to defend that properly is staying on the outside and not biting on the inside possibility. Cause if you even hesitate for 0.001 seconds, Austin has the speed to burn you. And that's what you saw there.to say austin's receiving TDs weren't special except for being really fast is like saying larry allen didn't make a special block except for being really powerful...
speed is his #1 attribute, subtracting that out of the equation would take away what he is best at...
machete kills, its what he does... austin flies, its what he does...
if he keeps exploding by DBs to get wide open downfield and past defenders in the open field, people will start to call him special...
if not for a few drops and penalties, he would have close to 10 TDs already, with six games left...
highlights of the three TDs...
on the punt return, it looked like the punter should have had the angle, but austin was going to outrun him... someone on the STL return team almost blocked him in the back, which would have negated it (again!), but he eased up, just lightly touched the punter, than maybe they got their feet tangled and he fell (maybe the punter would have had a chance to bring down austin otherwise, it might have been close)...
the first receiving TD, he beat the DB by about five yards, givens probably could have also, but givens has great deep speed, so if that is dismissing him in some way, that is a puzzling basis on which to do it...
i disagree he didn't look special on the second receiving TD... he took a short pass and beat the underneath defender to the right sideline, and it was a bad job by the deep defender who he turned around, but he split them and than exploded past both of them in the open field... again, to say he is just fast misses the point, imo... at the end, he turned on some extra gear, and neither defender was even in the frame... from another angle, it looked like he had about two car lengths of separation (that's not easy, don't try that at home)... what is that, if not special?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111004/2013/REG10/rams@colts#menu=highlights&tab=recap
T with T
Footballguy
this is another ellington/gio case with a wr. I think you should maybe feed this guy, he looks like he has some Fri.ckin upside you think??? 4.2 guy on another level speed wise. Fastest, quickest guy on the field at all times guys.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
maybe he meant among WRs, and not including CBs, i don't know.That's not true at all.Yeah, I guess we have differing opinions on what "special" is considered on these boards. Me personally? I consider speed like that special. He made those DBs look like Peyton Manning trying to catch an average player. It's not just speed, it's blazing speed that only maybe 4-5 players in the league possess. You can claim they're not 'special' plays but they really are if you look at them right. The first TD he makes a half a second shoulder push to the inside and it's enough to lock up the defender for Tavon to blow right past him. It wasn't a blown coverage, any CB would fall prey to that kind of move if they bite the inside at all. The only way to defend that properly is staying on the outside and not biting on the inside possibility. Cause if you even hesitate for 0.001 seconds, Austin has the speed to burn you. And that's what you saw there.to say austin's receiving TDs weren't special except for being really fast is like saying larry allen didn't make a special block except for being really powerful...
speed is his #1 attribute, subtracting that out of the equation would take away what he is best at...
machete kills, its what he does... austin flies, its what he does...
if he keeps exploding by DBs to get wide open downfield and past defenders in the open field, people will start to call him special...
if not for a few drops and penalties, he would have close to 10 TDs already, with six games left...
highlights of the three TDs...
on the punt return, it looked like the punter should have had the angle, but austin was going to outrun him... someone on the STL return team almost blocked him in the back, which would have negated it (again!), but he eased up, just lightly touched the punter, than maybe they got their feet tangled and he fell (maybe the punter would have had a chance to bring down austin otherwise, it might have been close)...
the first receiving TD, he beat the DB by about five yards, givens probably could have also, but givens has great deep speed, so if that is dismissing him in some way, that is a puzzling basis on which to do it...
i disagree he didn't look special on the second receiving TD... he took a short pass and beat the underneath defender to the right sideline, and it was a bad job by the deep defender who he turned around, but he split them and than exploded past both of them in the open field... again, to say he is just fast misses the point, imo... at the end, he turned on some extra gear, and neither defender was even in the frame... from another angle, it looked like he had about two car lengths of separation (that's not easy, don't try that at home)... what is that, if not special?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111004/2013/REG10/rams@colts#menu=highlights&tab=recap
his combination of speed and quickness are elite.
Texas’ Marquise Goodwin was the only WR faster than Austin's 4.34 at the 2013 Combine (4.27 seconds, the best time ever by a wide receiver at the combine... and not far from fastest at any position)... he was an olympic long jumper.
espn independent scout todd mcshay tweeted - WVU WR/RS Tavon Austin might be the quickest human being I've ever studied on tape...
nfl channel independent scout and thur night game commentator maike mayock tweeted - Rams rookie Tavon Austin "might be the most explosive player I've ever seen in my life".
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
A subjective statement still doesn't make it true. I can name a dozen WRs who ran sub 4.4 with great agility. A few of them have a size advantage on Austin.Bob Magaw said:maybe he meant among WRs, and not including CBs, i don't know.ShaHBucks said:That's not true at all.Khy said:Yeah, I guess we have differing opinions on what "special" is considered on these boards. Me personally? I consider speed like that special. He made those DBs look like Peyton Manning trying to catch an average player. It's not just speed, it's blazing speed that only maybe 4-5 players in the league possess. You can claim they're not 'special' plays but they really are if you look at them right. The first TD he makes a half a second shoulder push to the inside and it's enough to lock up the defender for Tavon to blow right past him. It wasn't a blown coverage, any CB would fall prey to that kind of move if they bite the inside at all. The only way to defend that properly is staying on the outside and not biting on the inside possibility. Cause if you even hesitate for 0.001 seconds, Austin has the speed to burn you. And that's what you saw there.to say austin's receiving TDs weren't special except for being really fast is like saying larry allen didn't make a special block except for being really powerful...
speed is his #1 attribute, subtracting that out of the equation would take away what he is best at...
machete kills, its what he does... austin flies, its what he does...
if he keeps exploding by DBs to get wide open downfield and past defenders in the open field, people will start to call him special...
if not for a few drops and penalties, he would have close to 10 TDs already, with six games left...
highlights of the three TDs...
on the punt return, it looked like the punter should have had the angle, but austin was going to outrun him... someone on the STL return team almost blocked him in the back, which would have negated it (again!), but he eased up, just lightly touched the punter, than maybe they got their feet tangled and he fell (maybe the punter would have had a chance to bring down austin otherwise, it might have been close)...
the first receiving TD, he beat the DB by about five yards, givens probably could have also, but givens has great deep speed, so if that is dismissing him in some way, that is a puzzling basis on which to do it...
i disagree he didn't look special on the second receiving TD... he took a short pass and beat the underneath defender to the right sideline, and it was a bad job by the deep defender who he turned around, but he split them and than exploded past both of them in the open field... again, to say he is just fast misses the point, imo... at the end, he turned on some extra gear, and neither defender was even in the frame... from another angle, it looked like he had about two car lengths of separation (that's not easy, don't try that at home)... what is that, if not special?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111004/2013/REG10/rams@colts#menu=highlights&tab=recap
his combination of speed and quickness are elite.
Texas Marquise Goodwin was the only WR faster than Austin's 4.34 at the 2013 Combine (4.27 seconds, the best time ever by a wide receiver at the combine... and not far from fastest at any position)... he was an olympic long jumper.
espn independent scout todd mcshay tweeted - WVU WR/RS Tavon Austin might be the quickest human being I've ever studied on tape...
nfl channel independent scout and thur night game commentator maike mayock tweeted - Rams rookie Tavon Austin "might be the most explosive player I've ever seen in my life".
FavreAndAwayAnIdiot
Footballguy
At a full sprint he makes everyone else look like they're jogging. I just wonder if he can stay healthy because the guy lives and dies by his elite speed. He loses that and he's just another short WR.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
and your subjective statement doesn't make it false... was the dismissal of mayock based on anything in particular, or just a blanket dismissal without accounting for his legitimacy as a scout? do you have an opinion, and think he is a bad scout and doesn't know what he is talking about? imo, his opinion carries more weight than ours, he was an NFL player, and has been scouting for years... if you do know anything about him, he isn't known for making statements like this "might be the most explosive player I've ever seen in my life" on an annual basis, every draft?I don't know about top 4-5, i wrote elite speed/quickness combo... you stated you could think of twelve with a similar combination of speed/quickness... we'll get back to that... but if austin was in the top 12 in the entire NFL and that isn't elite, what is your cutoff to be elite, top 3-5?A subjective statement still doesn't make it true. I can name a dozen WRs who ran sub 4.4 with great agility. A few of them have a size advantage on Austin.Bob Magaw said:maybe he meant among WRs, and not including CBs, i don't know.ShaHBucks said:That's not true at all.Khy said:Yeah, I guess we have differing opinions on what "special" is considered on these boards. Me personally? I consider speed like that special. He made those DBs look like Peyton Manning trying to catch an average player. It's not just speed, it's blazing speed that only maybe 4-5 players in the league possess. You can claim they're not 'special' plays but they really are if you look at them right. The first TD he makes a half a second shoulder push to the inside and it's enough to lock up the defender for Tavon to blow right past him. It wasn't a blown coverage, any CB would fall prey to that kind of move if they bite the inside at all. The only way to defend that properly is staying on the outside and not biting on the inside possibility. Cause if you even hesitate for 0.001 seconds, Austin has the speed to burn you. And that's what you saw there.to say austin's receiving TDs weren't special except for being really fast is like saying larry allen didn't make a special block except for being really powerful...
speed is his #1 attribute, subtracting that out of the equation would take away what he is best at...
machete kills, its what he does... austin flies, its what he does...
if he keeps exploding by DBs to get wide open downfield and past defenders in the open field, people will start to call him special...
if not for a few drops and penalties, he would have close to 10 TDs already, with six games left...
highlights of the three TDs...
on the punt return, it looked like the punter should have had the angle, but austin was going to outrun him... someone on the STL return team almost blocked him in the back, which would have negated it (again!), but he eased up, just lightly touched the punter, than maybe they got their feet tangled and he fell (maybe the punter would have had a chance to bring down austin otherwise, it might have been close)...
the first receiving TD, he beat the DB by about five yards, givens probably could have also, but givens has great deep speed, so if that is dismissing him in some way, that is a puzzling basis on which to do it...
i disagree he didn't look special on the second receiving TD... he took a short pass and beat the underneath defender to the right sideline, and it was a bad job by the deep defender who he turned around, but he split them and than exploded past both of them in the open field... again, to say he is just fast misses the point, imo... at the end, he turned on some extra gear, and neither defender was even in the frame... from another angle, it looked like he had about two car lengths of separation (that's not easy, don't try that at home)... what is that, if not special?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111004/2013/REG10/rams@colts#menu=highlights&tab=recap
his combination of speed and quickness are elite.
Texas Marquise Goodwin was the only WR faster than Austin's 4.34 at the 2013 Combine (4.27 seconds, the best time ever by a wide receiver at the combine... and not far from fastest at any position)... he was an olympic long jumper.
espn independent scout todd mcshay tweeted - WVU WR/RS Tavon Austin might be the quickest human being I've ever studied on tape...
nfl channel independent scout and thur night game commentator maike mayock tweeted - Rams rookie Tavon Austin "might be the most explosive player I've ever seen in my life".
what twelve would you list? where every WR on list ran 4.34 or better, and moves as well with his elusiveness?
harvin comes to mind, a former sprinter with elite quickness, and he is bigger as noted, so he is more dangerous...
patterson has elite speed, and because of his size makes a better kickoff returner, and maybe he will be better overall if he reaches his full potential (elite, blue chip athlete)... but austin may have superior short area quicks and COD ability
goodwin is faster, but more straightlinish, can't break down defenders in space as well... BUF has a few WRs with extreme speed...
desean jackson ran a 4.35, same listed weight, 2" taller... if jackson is elite, austin is very compararable as far as his speed and quickness...
santana moss maybe used to be in this conversation, but he is near the end of his career...
jacoby ford was an elite ncaa sprinter, but I don't think he has austin's elite movement skills and make you miss ability.
chris johnson and CJ spiller have elite speed, but are RBs...
patrick peterson ran a 4.35, which is ridiculous at 220 lbs, and is one of the best returners i've seen in the past decade (with hester and cribbs), but is a CB.
heater used to be a WR, but isn't now, but if you want to make that comparison, hester has elite speed and quickness...
the DEN returner was an NCAA champ, and has borderline world class speed (10.0 100 m), but he is a returner.
mccluster is quick but ran more like a 4.55.
torrey smith is fast, but not as elite in terms of movement skills, COD...
markus wheaton has sprinter speed (i saw him beat oregon sprinter and football star de'anthony thomas in a 100 m race), and the favorite to be mike wallace's long term replacement, but not sure he is as elusive as austin...
not sure about combine, TY hilton may have run 4.34 at his pro day, may be one of better comps for austin with desean jackson... i'm not sure if he is commonly thought of as having elite speed /quickness, but maybe that is because he isn't a household name...
stephen hill ran a 4.30 which is elite speed, and at his size, one of more impressive physical specimens and probably most impressive triangle numbers on list, but not in austin's class in terms of quickness, movement skills, COD ability, elusiveness...
mike wallace has elite speed for a WR, probably one of the fastest on the field (compared to track speed) i've ever seen, but again, not sure he can break down defenders in the open field like austin.
i don't see it, but like I said, i'd be interested in your list... try to keep them to 4.34 or faster...
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
In 2012 a few WR were under 200 pounds and ran sub 4.4s. Travis Benjamin, AJ Jenkins, TY Hilton, Chris Owusu, Devon Wylie, Deonte Thompson, Taveon Rodgers. Your god Mayock probably has no clue who a few of those guys are...Ryan Swope ran a 4.34 and has 30 solid pounds on Austin. Josh Boyce ran a 4.38 and has 30 pounds on Austin. Remember Sam McGuffie? I can do this all day. #### a Mike Mayockand your subjective statement doesn't make it false... was the dismissal of mayock based on anything in particular, or just a blanket dismissal without accounting for his legitimacy as a scout? do you have an opinion, and think he is a bad scout and doesn't know what he is talking about? imo, his opinion carries more weight than ours, he was an NFL player, and has been scouting for years... if you do know anything about him, he isn't known for making statements like this "might be the most explosive player I've ever seen in my life" on an annual basis, every draft?I don't know about top 4-5, i wrote elite speed/quickness combo... you stated you could think of twelve with a similar combination of speed/quickness... we'll get back to that... but if austin was in the top 12 in the entire NFL and that isn't elite, what is your cutoff to be elite, top 3-5?A subjective statement still doesn't make it true. I can name a dozen WRs who ran sub 4.4 with great agility. A few of them have a size advantage on Austin.Bob Magaw said:maybe he meant among WRs, and not including CBs, i don't know.ShaHBucks said:That's not true at all.Khy said:Yeah, I guess we have differing opinions on what "special" is considered on these boards. Me personally? I consider speed like that special. He made those DBs look like Peyton Manning trying to catch an average player. It's not just speed, it's blazing speed that only maybe 4-5 players in the league possess. You can claim they're not 'special' plays but they really are if you look at them right. The first TD he makes a half a second shoulder push to the inside and it's enough to lock up the defender for Tavon to blow right past him. It wasn't a blown coverage, any CB would fall prey to that kind of move if they bite the inside at all. The only way to defend that properly is staying on the outside and not biting on the inside possibility. Cause if you even hesitate for 0.001 seconds, Austin has the speed to burn you. And that's what you saw there.to say austin's receiving TDs weren't special except for being really fast is like saying larry allen didn't make a special block except for being really powerful...
speed is his #1 attribute, subtracting that out of the equation would take away what he is best at...
machete kills, its what he does... austin flies, its what he does...
if he keeps exploding by DBs to get wide open downfield and past defenders in the open field, people will start to call him special...
if not for a few drops and penalties, he would have close to 10 TDs already, with six games left...
highlights of the three TDs...
on the punt return, it looked like the punter should have had the angle, but austin was going to outrun him... someone on the STL return team almost blocked him in the back, which would have negated it (again!), but he eased up, just lightly touched the punter, than maybe they got their feet tangled and he fell (maybe the punter would have had a chance to bring down austin otherwise, it might have been close)...
the first receiving TD, he beat the DB by about five yards, givens probably could have also, but givens has great deep speed, so if that is dismissing him in some way, that is a puzzling basis on which to do it...
i disagree he didn't look special on the second receiving TD... he took a short pass and beat the underneath defender to the right sideline, and it was a bad job by the deep defender who he turned around, but he split them and than exploded past both of them in the open field... again, to say he is just fast misses the point, imo... at the end, he turned on some extra gear, and neither defender was even in the frame... from another angle, it looked like he had about two car lengths of separation (that's not easy, don't try that at home)... what is that, if not special?
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111004/2013/REG10/rams@colts#menu=highlights&tab=recap
his combination of speed and quickness are elite.
Texas Marquise Goodwin was the only WR faster than Austin's 4.34 at the 2013 Combine (4.27 seconds, the best time ever by a wide receiver at the combine... and not far from fastest at any position)... he was an olympic long jumper.
espn independent scout todd mcshay tweeted - WVU WR/RS Tavon Austin might be the quickest human being I've ever studied on tape...
nfl channel independent scout and thur night game commentator maike mayock tweeted - Rams rookie Tavon Austin "might be the most explosive player I've ever seen in my life".
what twelve would you list? where every WR on list ran 4.34 or better, and moves as well with his elusiveness?
harvin comes to mind, a former sprinter with elite quickness, and he is bigger as noted, so he is more dangerous...
patterson has elite speed, and because of his size makes a better kickoff returner, and maybe he will be better overall if he reaches his full potential (elite, blue chip athlete)... but austin may have superior short area quicks and COD ability
goodwin is faster, but more straightlinish, can't break down defenders in space as well... BUF has a few WRs with extreme speed...
desean jackson ran a 4.35, same listed weight, 2" taller... if jackson is elite, austin is very compararable as far as his speed and quickness...
santana moss maybe used to be in this conversation, but he is near the end of his career...
jacoby ford was an elite ncaa sprinter, but I don't think he has austin's elite movement skills and make you miss ability.
chris johnson and CJ spiller have elite speed, but are RBs...
patrick peterson ran a 4.35, which is ridiculous at 220 lbs, and is one of the best returners i've seen in the past decade (with hester and cribbs), but is a CB.
heater used to be a WR, but isn't now, but if you want to make that comparison, hester has elite speed and quickness...
the DEN returner was an NCAA champ, and has borderline world class speed (10.0 100 m), but he is a returner.
mccluster is quick but ran more like a 4.55.
torrey smith is fast, but not as elite in terms of movement skills, COD...
markus wheaton has sprinter speed (i saw him beat oregon sprinter and football star de'anthony thomas in a 100 m race), and the favorite to be mike wallace's long term replacement, but not sure he is as elusive as austin...
not sure about combine, TY hilton may have run 4.34 at his pro day, may be one of better comps for austin with desean jackson... i'm not sure if he is commonly thought of as having elite speed /quickness, but maybe that is because he isn't a household name...
stephen hill ran a 4.30 which is elite speed, and at his size, one of more impressive physical specimens and probably most impressive triangle numbers on list, but not in austin's class in terms of quickness, movement skills, COD ability, elusiveness...
mike wallace has elite speed for a WR, probably one of the fastest on the field (compared to track speed) i've ever seen, but again, not sure he can break down defenders in the open field like austin.
i don't see it, but like I said, i'd be interested in your list... try to keep them to 4.34 or faster...
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
your naive or just being argumentative (probably the latter with the snippy God crack*) if you think mayock isn't familiar with a 2012 first rounder like jenkins, or doesn't have a clue about the WRs you listed (unless having a clue means thinking exactly like shahbucks)...
you didn't mention if you think mayock is incompetent and on what basis?
jenkins doesn't have the short area quickness or movement skills of austin... i could do this all day.
if you aren't in a big hurry, break down your WRs and explain how their quickness is comparable to austin's... not really interested in bigger, slower WRs (no wonder you can do this all day, you are coloring crayons outside the lines - you were dismissive about how easy it is to find WRs as fast/quick, bring up your own size qualifier which I hadn't, than proceed to list WRs that were by your own admission... not as fast... that's kind of incoherent ), more 4.34 types and faster, so some of those you can throw out, but like you said, you can do this all day.
i'm talking about elite speed/quickness, I was clear on including movement skills, COD, elusiveness...
I mentioned TY hilton, and harvin (though bigger) and jackson (better austin comp size-wise, with hilton)...
that is three, and two of them in harvin and jackson are consensus elite...
you can't name WRs with austin's movement skills that ran a 4.34 all day, or you have a far different conception and understanding of austin's movement skills than i do, in which case we aren't even having a conversation, you are arguing with your inner straw man...
chris owusu doesn't move like austin, you are obviously reading off some kind of size/speed list...
as I said, stephen hill is a specimen with elite triangle numbers, but doesn't move anything like austin...
you didn't mention if you think mayock is incompetent and on what basis?
jenkins doesn't have the short area quickness or movement skills of austin... i could do this all day.
if you aren't in a big hurry, break down your WRs and explain how their quickness is comparable to austin's... not really interested in bigger, slower WRs (no wonder you can do this all day, you are coloring crayons outside the lines - you were dismissive about how easy it is to find WRs as fast/quick, bring up your own size qualifier which I hadn't, than proceed to list WRs that were by your own admission... not as fast... that's kind of incoherent
), more 4.34 types and faster, so some of those you can throw out, but like you said, you can do this all day.i'm talking about elite speed/quickness, I was clear on including movement skills, COD, elusiveness...
I mentioned TY hilton, and harvin (though bigger) and jackson (better austin comp size-wise, with hilton)...
that is three, and two of them in harvin and jackson are consensus elite...
you can't name WRs with austin's movement skills that ran a 4.34 all day, or you have a far different conception and understanding of austin's movement skills than i do, in which case we aren't even having a conversation, you are arguing with your inner straw man...
chris owusu doesn't move like austin, you are obviously reading off some kind of size/speed list...
as I said, stephen hill is a specimen with elite triangle numbers, but doesn't move anything like austin...
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
What does Aldrick Robinson do for you? Brice Butler? Kenny Stills? Denard Robinson? Corey Fuller? That was just a few guys from the last few draft classes. Like I said, he doesn't have speed that only 4-5 players posses. His skills are not that rare like you're made to believe. Being fast is not as big a deal as it once was. A lot of prospects run near Austin's eliete speed/agility, so there is more to factor in physically after you declare someone fast these days. Someone like Boyce is far more impressive overall considering the size/power they bring to the table. At 5'8 174 I'm not as impressed with all of the size he gives up.
COD is another story. I don't have time for that. Aldrick Robinson should stack up though. Boyce is a blink away with TE power. Swope had a higher vert, better broad jump, longer arms, and more bench reps, but he is 4" taller and 30 ponds heavier.
Ehh whatever...
COD is another story. I don't have time for that. Aldrick Robinson should stack up though. Boyce is a blink away with TE power. Swope had a higher vert, better broad jump, longer arms, and more bench reps, but he is 4" taller and 30 ponds heavier.
Ehh whatever...
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
probably an oversight, but you have yet to address if you think mayock is incompetent, and on what basis... as near as i can tell, the dismissal was solely to undercut the quote that austin might be the most explosive player he's ever seen... i'd say your dismissal is weak, but it isn't even that, it is nonexistent.
I didn't say 4-5, i said he has elite speed/quickness, nothing you have brought up refutes this.
the first WR I checked was stills, who ran a 4.38...
the second, dennard, ran a 4.43... JAX has moved him to RB...
third, fuller - 4.43...
fourth, butler wasn't invited to combine, not his fault, but pro day 40 time not as impressive as the controlled conditions or neutral site at combine... he ran a 4.37 at pro day, so again, not as fast...
fifth, robinson, ran a 4.43... you can say he is capable of better, but than do we get to include austin's unofficial 4.25?
a lot of prospects AREN'T as fast/quick as austin, so your repeated efforts to steer the conversation in the direction of size are a non-starter...
richie incognito could be a more impressive size/speed combo, but he isn't as fast.
i get that your not impressed with his size/speed combo... i'm not disputing that... he isn't big, obviously (though similar in size, speed and quickness to desean jackson and TY hilton, maybe his best NFL comps)... but if he isn't big, he better be fast/quick...
you keep saying he doesn't have special speed/quickness, and as "proof" keep citing slower WRs, which is a seemingly counterintuitive and unorthodox strategy to make your point...
I tried to be clear in an earlier, clarifying post that under quickness i include movement skills, COD and elusiveness...
if you don't have time to get into COD, fine (though what happened to i could do this all day?), but than you are leaving your generalizations even further unsupported... which is probably just as well, as inaccuracies and overstatements regarding the speed of the WRs you have been citing render the point moot...
if it is really as easy as you say to find them, try harder to find WRs actually as fast, and not slower... there should be plenty at 4.33, 4.32, 4.31, etc... again, you could do it all day...
goodwin was the only faster WR at the 2013 combine... and he has elite speed... he set the national high school long jump record in 2009, and his personal best would have won the gold medal at the 2012 olympics...
BTW, charles davis, a college commentator, who contributes to the NFL channel's draft day coverage with mayock, called austin a football player with track speed, and goodwin a track athlete trying to play football.
that is the difference between just fast and elite speed/quickness, including movement skills, COD and elusiveness...
i've seen aldrick robinson play for the redskins, we'll have to agree to disagree, i don't think he has elite elusiveness like austin, again, more straightlinish speed, and per above, he is slower anyways.
swope, after experiencing recurring concussion symptoms after suffering at least four in college, was put on the cards reserve/retired list... his career might be over before it started, i wouldn't pin my hopes on him. but if you want to include players who may not even ever play a down in the NFL, on the plus side, that could greatly expand the search space for you of WRs faster/quicker than austin...
* so far, the only thing demonstrated to be more elusive than austin in this thread is the inability to come up with legit speed/quickness comps beyond desean jackson and TY hilton.
I didn't say 4-5, i said he has elite speed/quickness, nothing you have brought up refutes this.
the first WR I checked was stills, who ran a 4.38...
the second, dennard, ran a 4.43... JAX has moved him to RB...
third, fuller - 4.43...
fourth, butler wasn't invited to combine, not his fault, but pro day 40 time not as impressive as the controlled conditions or neutral site at combine... he ran a 4.37 at pro day, so again, not as fast...
fifth, robinson, ran a 4.43... you can say he is capable of better, but than do we get to include austin's unofficial 4.25?
a lot of prospects AREN'T as fast/quick as austin, so your repeated efforts to steer the conversation in the direction of size are a non-starter...
richie incognito could be a more impressive size/speed combo, but he isn't as fast.
i get that your not impressed with his size/speed combo... i'm not disputing that... he isn't big, obviously (though similar in size, speed and quickness to desean jackson and TY hilton, maybe his best NFL comps)... but if he isn't big, he better be fast/quick...
you keep saying he doesn't have special speed/quickness, and as "proof" keep citing slower WRs, which is a seemingly counterintuitive and unorthodox strategy to make your point...
I tried to be clear in an earlier, clarifying post that under quickness i include movement skills, COD and elusiveness...
if you don't have time to get into COD, fine (though what happened to i could do this all day?), but than you are leaving your generalizations even further unsupported... which is probably just as well, as inaccuracies and overstatements regarding the speed of the WRs you have been citing render the point moot...
if it is really as easy as you say to find them, try harder to find WRs actually as fast, and not slower... there should be plenty at 4.33, 4.32, 4.31, etc... again, you could do it all day...
goodwin was the only faster WR at the 2013 combine... and he has elite speed... he set the national high school long jump record in 2009, and his personal best would have won the gold medal at the 2012 olympics...
BTW, charles davis, a college commentator, who contributes to the NFL channel's draft day coverage with mayock, called austin a football player with track speed, and goodwin a track athlete trying to play football.
that is the difference between just fast and elite speed/quickness, including movement skills, COD and elusiveness...
i've seen aldrick robinson play for the redskins, we'll have to agree to disagree, i don't think he has elite elusiveness like austin, again, more straightlinish speed, and per above, he is slower anyways.
swope, after experiencing recurring concussion symptoms after suffering at least four in college, was put on the cards reserve/retired list... his career might be over before it started, i wouldn't pin my hopes on him. but if you want to include players who may not even ever play a down in the NFL, on the plus side, that could greatly expand the search space for you of WRs faster/quicker than austin...
* so far, the only thing demonstrated to be more elusive than austin in this thread is the inability to come up with legit speed/quickness comps beyond desean jackson and TY hilton.
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Xue
Footballguy
Austin is a faster Damaris Johnson/Andre Hawkins/Dexter McCluster/Ace Sanders. Those four guys have elite change of direction, just lacked the 4.3 speed.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap1000000062657/WK-2-Can-t-Miss-Play-Hawkins-busts-it-open
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4RrJ0WYtjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H974h5i9HXc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQBIZprUxHc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR8C9x--s3k
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap1000000062657/WK-2-Can-t-Miss-Play-Hawkins-busts-it-open
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4RrJ0WYtjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H974h5i9HXc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQBIZprUxHc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR8C9x--s3k
Xue
Footballguy
Still, Austin isn't as dangerous as Jackson and Hilton. Those two could make plays downfield. I didn't see Austin do that in college and I have my doubts he will do it often in the NFL. Hilton is arguably the best of the 3 simply because he's able to produce with no other threat at WR opposite him (averaging 125.5 yards last two games w/o Wayne). I don't see that kind of upside to Austin.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
My first post in this thread read off my closes comps. I wasn't responding to you at all. I commented on speed. I clearly use different sites for 40x. .0-something seconds isn't a big deal, but since you want to be particular I said Aldrick Robinson. You've dismissed Robinson, but Austin hasn't done anything he hasn't before in the league.How about converting Onterio McCalebb or Chris Rainey to the slot cheaply if you had a hard on for small-speedy receivers in the last draft?Bob Magaw said:
I don't really care for the mainstream media when it comes to player evaluations. A quick google search shows Mayock's top QBs in 2011 were Gabbert and Locker. That's enough for me.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
not sure what your first post in the thread was... you have been responding to the last three or four of my posts (like the your God Mayock one?)...
you sort of addressed quickness as well as speed, which I was talking about... i noted elite speed/quickness, not top 4-5, but I can see how that could be confusing if you are refuting somebody else's points with me...
as to sites used for speed cites, one i've used at times is kind of obscure, but i think it could catch on... It's called Wikipedia... seriously, sometimes I check a few sites, to cross check, especially if i'm not seeing an obvious, official combine time (like butler)...
you seemed pretty adamant that austin doesn't have special speed, and the number of immediately off the top of your head examples that you could cite in making this point was so large as to be ridiculously obvious...
if you have such a hard on (to use your terminology) to refute the point that austin has an elite combo of speed/quickness, that we have devolved to position conversions, why not convert CBs... allow time machines to bring back darrell green as a WR conversion... allow cloning and sport conversions... presto, you have 12 usain bolts to make your point...
.09 is .0-something, which is close to the difference between austin's 4.34 and fuller and robinson's 4.43 (you mentioned aldrick and denard)... i'll let the thread sort out whether citing them constitutes validation that austin has pedestrian speed that is not special.
i've seen aldrick (in WAS, denard a rookie in JAX), your entitled to your opinion, i find him fast but straightlinish, doesn't have ankle breaking moves... never saw anything in his game that made me think, oh yeah, this guy could have busted 572 all purpose yards against oklahoma.
the way you described it, you had to use google to find points to prop up your earlier position that you already didn't like mayock... maybe that isn't how you meant it, but if you ask me if peter king was as good a scout as mayock, i wouldn't need google to tell me what i think?
you sort of addressed quickness as well as speed, which I was talking about... i noted elite speed/quickness, not top 4-5, but I can see how that could be confusing if you are refuting somebody else's points with me...
as to sites used for speed cites, one i've used at times is kind of obscure, but i think it could catch on... It's called Wikipedia...
seriously, sometimes I check a few sites, to cross check, especially if i'm not seeing an obvious, official combine time (like butler)...you seemed pretty adamant that austin doesn't have special speed, and the number of immediately off the top of your head examples that you could cite in making this point was so large as to be ridiculously obvious...
if you have such a hard on (to use your terminology) to refute the point that austin has an elite combo of speed/quickness, that we have devolved to position conversions, why not convert CBs... allow time machines to bring back darrell green as a WR conversion... allow cloning and sport conversions... presto, you have 12 usain bolts to make your point...
.09 is .0-something, which is close to the difference between austin's 4.34 and fuller and robinson's 4.43 (you mentioned aldrick and denard)... i'll let the thread sort out whether citing them constitutes validation that austin has pedestrian speed that is not special.
i've seen aldrick (in WAS, denard a rookie in JAX), your entitled to your opinion, i find him fast but straightlinish, doesn't have ankle breaking moves... never saw anything in his game that made me think, oh yeah, this guy could have busted 572 all purpose yards against oklahoma.
the way you described it, you had to use google to find points to prop up your earlier position that you already didn't like mayock... maybe that isn't how you meant it, but if you ask me if peter king was as good a scout as mayock, i wouldn't need google to tell me what i think?
