Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Round 2 isn't even an issue. Hendricks clearly won that round. He won it on all 3 judge's cards. He landed his best shots that round.SacramentoBob said:
Two judges gave GSP round 1. That's the sticking point.
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UFC wagering: breaking news - judging is so terrible it got me to return here to update this thread title (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter AhrnCityPahnder
- Start date
Two judges gave GSP round 1. That's the sticking point.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Dana seems pretty pissed at this retirement announcement.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Sonnen: "I took on a better fighter tonight. I just got mauled."
modogg
Footballguy
yeah, Sonnen is pretty good when he loses the shtick too. just wish Rashad would let the rest of us know when he feels like fighting and when he doesn't
Possum
Footballguy
weird, to me Hendricks landed more and better shots in round 2 than in round 1 - I felt that round 1 was really close and I gave it to GSP. He got the takedown and landed multiple jabs and kicks on the feet - Johny hit him with some nice downward elbows while pinned against the fence (which you're right, that did open up the first cut on GSP) and a power shot or two. Both of them landed knees to the body and legs in the clinch.
Then in round 2 Hendricks had GSP wobbled with a couple big lefts early and marked him up even more. Second half of the round was more even but I felt Hendricks controlled the cage with his clinch work enough to win it decisively.
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SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Fight Metric stats:
GSP 101/221 sig strikes 46%, 3/6 take downs.
Hendricks 85/194 sig strikes 44%, 2/4 take downs.
GSP 101/221 sig strikes 46%, 3/6 take downs.
Hendricks 85/194 sig strikes 44%, 2/4 take downs.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
R1
GSP: 19/38 50%, 1/2 TD
JH: 18/27 67% 1/1 TD
R2
GSP: 28/67 42%
JH: 30/72 42%
R3
GSP 31/64 48%
JH: 15/50 30%, 1/2 TD
R4
GSP 14/26 54%
JH: 18/35 51%, 0/1 TD
R5
GSP 9/26 35% 2/4 TD
JH 4/10 40%
GSP: 19/38 50%, 1/2 TD
JH: 18/27 67% 1/1 TD
R2
GSP: 28/67 42%
JH: 30/72 42%
R3
GSP 31/64 48%
JH: 15/50 30%, 1/2 TD
R4
GSP 14/26 54%
JH: 18/35 51%, 0/1 TD
R5
GSP 9/26 35% 2/4 TD
JH 4/10 40%
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Possum
Footballguy
yeah I'm pretty sure it's legit - link to the thread: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=2252036&forum=1&page=1&pc=4
Lawler-Hendricks would be a nice scrap to watch. The winner of Condit-Brown ought to be in the mix there too.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Sonnen indicated that he won't fight at 205 anymore because of the size disadvantage.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Damn, technical difficulties right after GSP shows up.
The NASCAR thing was especially stupid given that George just got there and nobody had asked him about the going away comment. How do you not ask that immediately?
The NASCAR thing was especially stupid given that George just got there and nobody had asked him about the going away comment. How do you not ask that immediately?
modogg
Footballguy
yeah, the presser having difficulties happened at the worst time. huge buzzkill here
on my end here. huge bummer if GSP doesn't come back, but age may have caught up to him, or something
modogg
Footballguy
yeah, i hope they can patch the stuff missed. seems like George has some real tough stuff going on with him, hopefully he comes back in some fashion at some point
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Sebowski
Footballguy
And Fight Metric Effectiveness Score:
GSP: 315
Hendricks: 364
Also, Metric's 10-point must system score:
48-47 Hendricks.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
I didn't catch the part at the end with GSP. What did he say?
Half in the bag
Footballguy
Terrible decision? No not really when you consider that GSP was moving forward the entire fight and has been the champ for six years. As a challenger you have to take the title from the champ. You cant think the judges will give it t you. In a close fight the belt remains with the champ. That's how its been forevercobalt_27 said:
kutta
Footballguy
I saw it, and so did the people I watched the fight with. It was very early when GSP had him in a choke. We all started screaming at the TV saying that Hendricks tapped, but the fight went on.
I think GSP lost this one pretty easily, but I don't feel bad for Hendricks because I do think he tapped early and it should have ended there.
ETA: Here's the video. Doesn't look as clear here as it did on the big screen, but it's there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6NNA7fYLAw
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
Hendricks took it to the champ. Are you ignoring GSP's face. He bludgeoned him.
I get what you are saying and completely agree that the challenger has to make an extra special mark. In terms of rounds won, aggressiveness, and effectiveness, Hendricks won outright. GSP fought like a champion. Totally resilient in the face of the worst beating he's ever sustained. He was nails. But, Hendricks was the better fighter last night and deserved the belt.
I agree with Dana White. The Nevada State Athletic Commission is a complete fraud.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Thats not a tap. He's working on getting his guard back and his forearm is pushing just above GSPs knee. in the struggle his arm waivered a bit. He was out of that choke and on his way to his feet.
Worst saying ever.
I had Hendricks winning the first four round but wouldn't fault someone giving the third to St. Pierre. You guys giving the second to GSP make me question your ability to score a fight as that's the round lost his memory. I wouldn't score it 10-8, but Hendricks clearly won that round along with the first and fourth. In the first, the total strikes landed were very even, but Hendricks' strikes were easily more effective.
Just a horrible display of judging.
And definitely not a tap - it occurred as the joke was being lost.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Using that logic, GSP has lost most of his fights. The guy cuts/bruises pretty easily.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
kutta
Footballguy
I agree it's pretty close. When we were watching it last night, we all thought it was a tap.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
HUGE GSP fan over here....
shut the match off the second the final bell went, pissed off thinking Hendricks had won it.
Just found out NOW, that GSP won. hahaha
Gotta say, as much as I love GSP, he lost that fight in my eyes. I know what the stats were... but Johny just looked better and did more damage.
Shaky decision, though I can see why GSP got the call... I just dont like it. He lost.
Also, I thought Hendricks tapped out early... but I ignored it thinking my eyes were plying tricks on me
shut the match off the second the final bell went, pissed off thinking Hendricks had won it.
Just found out NOW, that GSP won. hahaha
Gotta say, as much as I love GSP, he lost that fight in my eyes. I know what the stats were... but Johny just looked better and did more damage.
Shaky decision, though I can see why GSP got the call... I just dont like it. He lost.
Also, I thought Hendricks tapped out early... but I ignored it thinking my eyes were plying tricks on me
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
GSP is probably the most cerebral fighter in the UFC. He of all people knows to stop when the ref tells you to stop, not on a tap. He didn't have the choke.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
i think using the boxing scoring system in 3 and 5 round fights is the flawed part. As a whole Hendricks won for sure, but using the scoring system i can see how judges scored it for GSP if they gave him all the close rounds.
modogg
Footballguy
going forward, i really want to see Hendricks get his teeth punched in. Completely disrespectful to GSP with his comments, and he is walking around like his #### doesn't stink. combined with the whole drug testing fiasco by him, being up Marc Laymon's ###, and just a ##### in general, he has taken Matt Hughes place for me
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
bonesman
Footballguy
I didn't rewatch it but noticed at the time and it definitely was NOT a tap. I rationalized it by him congratulating Georges for getting a close one in. Pat on the back/butt type deal. Definitely wasn't a submission though.
GSP lost and he knows it. How many guys talk retirement after winning their 12th fight in a row?
modogg
Footballguy
post-conference is fixed now. still can't figure out what that goofy guy was saying NASCAR:
http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/11/17/5101272/ufc-167-post-fight-press-conference-video
ETA: and props to Dana for changing his tune during the conference. He was real tough on GSP to start, and glad Dana realized GSP is going through some stuff and they need to catch up
http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/11/17/5101272/ufc-167-post-fight-press-conference-video
ETA: and props to Dana for changing his tune during the conference. He was real tough on GSP to start, and glad Dana realized GSP is going through some stuff and they need to catch up
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SacramentoBob
Footballguy
There was talk before the fight that GSP was considering retirement. He has 21 ufc bouts now. Looking at the list of guys around him with that many fights (Koscheck, BJP, Mir, Rich Franklin) they had all hit their decline well before that point. I'm sure he's been thinking about this for a while, especially after the ACL injury and the decreased chance of a super fight with Silva. Taking a big beating for the first time in a while certainly makes you wonder what the point is when you have tens of millions in the bank. That monster head kick from Condit probably had him reevaluating things as well.
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modogg
Footballguy
i guess dana spoke to George after the post-fight conference and made it sound like GSP will be back soon. sounds like promoter talk, but still something:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3294227695&feature=iv&src_vid=6OL9KQjL05M&v=_ZmlZ4Vlwcg
modogg
Footballguy
lot of good reads out there today about last night, this one makes maybe the best point though:
http://mmajunkie.com/2013/11/17/ufc-167-ends-in-a-questionable-split-decision-and-the-freakout-begins-right-on-time-docufc-167-ends-in-a-questionable-split-decision-and-the-freakout-begins-right-on-time/
LAS VEGAS – When a main-event title fight ends with one fighter’s coach carrying him around on his shoulders while the other fighter’s team is busy hugging and jumping up and down like game show winners, it’s a pretty good sign that we’re headed for controversy.
We should know that by now, shouldn’t we? We shouldn’t be so surprised when close fights tip in one direction or another, enraging people on one side in the process.
Yet here we are. Maybe we can’t help ourselves.
Take the situation at UFC 167 on Saturday night at MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Veags, where UFC welterweight champion Georges St-Pierre (25-2 MMA, 19-2 UFC) and challenger Johny Hendricks (15-2 MMA, 10-2 UFC) both seemed more or less equally certain that they deserved a decision win. The judges couldn’t agree. Two scored it 48-47 for St-Pierre, while one lone dissenter gave it to Hendricks.
So began the post-fight ritual of yelling at one another in living rooms and sports bars across the land. And lo, there was much gnashing of teeth and wailing about MMA judging. Until the lights came on and last call forced at least a relocation, if not an end to the argument.
Here’s what the judges agreed on: Hendricks won Rounds 2 and 4, St-Pierre won Rounds 3 and 5. Only the first frame prompted some disagreement. You look at the stats, and they’re almost shockingly even. Hendricks landed 27 total strikes and went one-for-one on takedowns. St-Pierre landed 26 strikes and went one-for-two on takedowns.
Call it a slight edge for Hendricks (I did, at least as I watched it live), but don’t call it much more than that. Certainly don’t call it a robbery that should prompt an emergency intervention from the governor of Nevada, as UFC President Dana White did.
“I want what’s fair, and that wasn’t fair,” White said at the post-fight press conference. “I think the Nevada State Athletic Commission is atrocious. I think the governor needs to step in immediately before these guys destroy the sport like they did boxing.”
Well, at least he’s not overreacting. He just wants Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval to make sure that judges agree with him about close fights. And if the governor can’t do it himself, maybe the National Guard can help.
Should Hendricks have won that decision? I think so, yeah. Could I see how a reasonable person might disagree? Sure. That’s how it often goes in close fights. So why do we insist on acting like we’ve never been through this before, like it’s some unprecedented disaster? Not that this should be all that comforting, but we’ve seen far worse decisions in this sport. We got over them too, and without immediate government intervention.
If you’re feeling generous, I guess you can write this kind of thing off as a natural and not altogether terrible byproduct of the passion this sport inspires. Fight fans get worked up from time to time, as you might have noticed.
That, or maybe we’re just a bunch of hysterical jerks who can’t stand not to have our own opinions reflected back at us.
From here the arguments will shake out according to a predictable little flowchart. Are you of the opinion that GSP won? Then you’ll probably make the case that you have to really beat the champion down in order to take the belt. Because, apparently, the judging criteria change when there’s a belt on the line.
If you think Hendricks won it, on the other hand, you might be tempted to use as evidence the sorry state of St-Pierre’s face by the fight’s end. In fairness, the champ did look like he’d just spent a half-hour getting bounced around in the spin cycle of some giant washing machine. But the last time I checked, post-fight bruising isn’t even mentioned in the unified rules. Weird, I know.
The real bummer is, hardly anyone is talking about what a good fight this was. Ebbs and flows, mid-fight strategy adjustments, several genuinely tense moments where it looked like we might get one of those finishes we love so much – all the stuff we usually love in a title fight. We got our money’s worth from the UFC’s 20th anniversary show, but then we got so busy arguing about the outcome that we totally forgot by the time it was over.
That’s a shame, for the fighters and for us. Because regardless of who you think won, can’t we at least agree that it was close? Can’t we agree that, if the worst thing that happens is we have to sort it out with a rematch as soon as both men are willing and able, that’s really not so bad?
For complete coverage of UFC 167, stay tuned to the UFC Events section of the site.
http://mmajunkie.com/2013/11/17/ufc-167-ends-in-a-questionable-split-decision-and-the-freakout-begins-right-on-time-docufc-167-ends-in-a-questionable-split-decision-and-the-freakout-begins-right-on-time/
LAS VEGAS – When a main-event title fight ends with one fighter’s coach carrying him around on his shoulders while the other fighter’s team is busy hugging and jumping up and down like game show winners, it’s a pretty good sign that we’re headed for controversy.
We should know that by now, shouldn’t we? We shouldn’t be so surprised when close fights tip in one direction or another, enraging people on one side in the process.
Yet here we are. Maybe we can’t help ourselves.
Take the situation at UFC 167 on Saturday night at MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Veags, where UFC welterweight champion Georges St-Pierre (25-2 MMA, 19-2 UFC) and challenger Johny Hendricks (15-2 MMA, 10-2 UFC) both seemed more or less equally certain that they deserved a decision win. The judges couldn’t agree. Two scored it 48-47 for St-Pierre, while one lone dissenter gave it to Hendricks.
So began the post-fight ritual of yelling at one another in living rooms and sports bars across the land. And lo, there was much gnashing of teeth and wailing about MMA judging. Until the lights came on and last call forced at least a relocation, if not an end to the argument.
Here’s what the judges agreed on: Hendricks won Rounds 2 and 4, St-Pierre won Rounds 3 and 5. Only the first frame prompted some disagreement. You look at the stats, and they’re almost shockingly even. Hendricks landed 27 total strikes and went one-for-one on takedowns. St-Pierre landed 26 strikes and went one-for-two on takedowns.
Call it a slight edge for Hendricks (I did, at least as I watched it live), but don’t call it much more than that. Certainly don’t call it a robbery that should prompt an emergency intervention from the governor of Nevada, as UFC President Dana White did.
“I want what’s fair, and that wasn’t fair,” White said at the post-fight press conference. “I think the Nevada State Athletic Commission is atrocious. I think the governor needs to step in immediately before these guys destroy the sport like they did boxing.”
Well, at least he’s not overreacting. He just wants Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval to make sure that judges agree with him about close fights. And if the governor can’t do it himself, maybe the National Guard can help.
Should Hendricks have won that decision? I think so, yeah. Could I see how a reasonable person might disagree? Sure. That’s how it often goes in close fights. So why do we insist on acting like we’ve never been through this before, like it’s some unprecedented disaster? Not that this should be all that comforting, but we’ve seen far worse decisions in this sport. We got over them too, and without immediate government intervention.
If you’re feeling generous, I guess you can write this kind of thing off as a natural and not altogether terrible byproduct of the passion this sport inspires. Fight fans get worked up from time to time, as you might have noticed.
That, or maybe we’re just a bunch of hysterical jerks who can’t stand not to have our own opinions reflected back at us.
From here the arguments will shake out according to a predictable little flowchart. Are you of the opinion that GSP won? Then you’ll probably make the case that you have to really beat the champion down in order to take the belt. Because, apparently, the judging criteria change when there’s a belt on the line.
If you think Hendricks won it, on the other hand, you might be tempted to use as evidence the sorry state of St-Pierre’s face by the fight’s end. In fairness, the champ did look like he’d just spent a half-hour getting bounced around in the spin cycle of some giant washing machine. But the last time I checked, post-fight bruising isn’t even mentioned in the unified rules. Weird, I know.
The real bummer is, hardly anyone is talking about what a good fight this was. Ebbs and flows, mid-fight strategy adjustments, several genuinely tense moments where it looked like we might get one of those finishes we love so much – all the stuff we usually love in a title fight. We got our money’s worth from the UFC’s 20th anniversary show, but then we got so busy arguing about the outcome that we totally forgot by the time it was over.
That’s a shame, for the fighters and for us. Because regardless of who you think won, can’t we at least agree that it was close? Can’t we agree that, if the worst thing that happens is we have to sort it out with a rematch as soon as both men are willing and able, that’s really not so bad?
For complete coverage of UFC 167, stay tuned to the UFC Events section of the site.
Sebowski
Footballguy
That was actually pretty awesome.
It was hilarious to watch the Post Fight show and hear Cormier and Florian talking about what a classy guy Hendricks right after he talked all that #### and sounded like brat.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Finally watched the fight. Feels almost wrong giving it to GSP considering that as a whole, Hendricks did a lot more damage, but I have no problem with the decision the way that rounds are scored. Hendricks clearly gets rounds 2 & 4, I'd give GSP 3 & 5 b/c he did just a little bit more and then it comes down to round 1. I'd have no problem if the judges gave that round to Hendricks, but I don't understand the outrage with giving it to GSP. Hendricks did a little more at most. Not sure you change belt holders based on that. Anyone outraged with the decision either don't know the scoring system or are just discounting it. And anyone thinking that round 2 was a 10-8 hasn't seen many actual 10-8s. Hendricks had GSP wobbly at the beginning of the round, but he really wasn't too close to finishing him and he did absolutely nothing for the final 3 minutes of the round. So all this disbelief by the likes of Rogan and White, I just don't get. There definitely wasn't a tap in the 1st. GSP didn't even have the guillotine long enough to get the submission.
GSP has to be the absolutely worst at giving post fight ring intervies. From some of his interviews where he'd talk about an injury he suffered that affected his performance after just pounding on a guy for 5 rounds to that sloppy pseudo-retirement announcement.
GSP has to be the absolutely worst at giving post fight ring intervies. From some of his interviews where he'd talk about an injury he suffered that affected his performance after just pounding on a guy for 5 rounds to that sloppy pseudo-retirement announcement.
bonesman
Footballguy
Abrantes
Footballguy
GSP has been hinting at retirement for months now.
With the ten-point-must system in mind, how wasn't it close?
modogg
Footballguy
Mark Laymon, that is all that needs to be said there. Man, i would have loved to have seen Serra smack him right in the jaw on TUF 4
Abrantes
Footballguy
With the way the ten-point-must system is used in the UFC, it was definitely close. That's the problem, of course.
Balco
Footballguy
Abrantes
Footballguy