The Trent Richardson Thread (3 Viewers)

[stbugs]

I missed the game, did Trent shine again?

I'm sure if you asked him, he'd say so. Sometimes (all the time) his stellar play doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Things can certainly change quickly in the NFL and maybe it will but at this point I would be absolutely sick if I owned him in dynasty given the price it probably took to get him.

easily goes down as my worst trade made in the last two years, maybe ever.

I gave Dez Bryant and my 2013 1st for the 2012 1.01 (Trent) and a late pick. Had I kept the pick I likely would have taken Aaron Dobson.

I offered Julio Jones before the season started and was rejected.

Even with the injury, you came out way ahead.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I missed the game, did Trent shine again?

I'm sure if you asked him, he'd say so. Sometimes (all the time) his stellar play doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Things can certainly change quickly in the NFL and maybe it will but at this point I would be absolutely sick if I owned him in dynasty given the price it probably took to get him.

easily goes down as my worst trade made in the last two years, maybe ever.

I gave Dez Bryant and my 2013 1st for the 2012 1.01 (Trent) and a late pick. Had I kept the pick I likely would have taken Aaron Dobson.

I offered Julio Jones before the season started and was rejected.

Even with the injury, you came out way ahead.

Definitely, its a dynasty.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I missed the game, did Trent shine again?

I'm sure if you asked him, he'd say so. Sometimes (all the time) his stellar play doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Things can certainly change quickly in the NFL and maybe it will but at this point I would be absolutely sick if I owned him in dynasty given the price it probably took to get him.

easily goes down as my worst trade made in the last two years, maybe ever.

I gave Dez Bryant and my 2013 1st for the 2012 1.01 (Trent) and a late pick. Had I kept the pick I likely would have taken Aaron Dobson.

I offered Julio Jones before the season started and was rejected.

Even with the injury, you came out way ahead.

Definitely, its a dynasty.

If Jones' injury was a career-ender, you'd still be ahead.

 

[stbugs]

I missed the game, did Trent shine again?

I'm sure if you asked him, he'd say so. Sometimes (all the time) his stellar play doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Things can certainly change quickly in the NFL and maybe it will but at this point I would be absolutely sick if I owned him in dynasty given the price it probably took to get him.

easily goes down as my worst trade made in the last two years, maybe ever.

I gave Dez Bryant and my 2013 1st for the 2012 1.01 (Trent) and a late pick. Had I kept the pick I likely would have taken Aaron Dobson.

I offered Julio Jones before the season started and was rejected.

Even with the injury, you came out way ahead.

Definitely, its a dynasty.

If Jones' injury was a career-ender, you'd still be ahead.

Was just about to post that, but scrolled down.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Donald Brown's stats through the first 51:52 of the game: 8 carries, 8 yards.

With a 1 point lead, and just over 8 minutes left in the game, the Colts brought in their run personnel. They brought in extra people to block - McGlynn, Reitz (both G), Havili (FB)...heck, even a LB (Harvey) reported as eligible during that drive. Anybody who could block was put in the game.

TRich did get a carry once they got on the 4 yard line (stuffed for no gain) with both Reitz and Harvey being brought in. Next play, McGlynn is also brought in, and Brown punches it in.

During that drive, Brown's line was: 6, 46, 1 TD

So the run game sucks for 3 1/2 quarters, during which Brown goes for 1 YPC on 8 carries while TRich is 4.75 YPC on his 4 carries. There's one decent drive at the end of the game, with extra blockers, and Brown finishes with a far superior 3.9 YPC compared to TRich's 3.8.

The same thing happened when the Colts/Titans played the first time. The run game sucked for 3 1/2 quarters, then the Colts brought in extra blockers, and the run game started working. In both games Brown was the main back in the 4th quarter; the difference was that this time Brown was the guy getting the carries earlier in the game and getting stuffed.

TRich may very well suck next year, or for the rest of his career. Who knows. But what I do know is that the Colts are a mess right now, and it's pretty silly to think that the book on TRich is complete.

Hold on a hot minute here. Didn't people spend several weeks telling us how Richardson's bad YPC was OK because it was negatively impacted by carries in the 4th quarter with a lead when the defense knew that the Colts were going to be running?

When Richardson was the lead back it wasn't fair to compare them because Richardson got those 4th quarter carries with the lead that bring down a running back's YPC.

When Brown is the lead back it's not fair to compare them because Brown gets those 4th quarter carries with the lead that improve a running back's YPC?

 

[Jrodicus]

while TRich is 4.75 YPC on his 4 carries.

YPC is not a great stat even when you're not talking about...4 carries.

I'm glad someone checked in to weigh in on the pro-Trent side though, was getting dull in here.

especially when one of those 4 carries is an 11 yd run on 3rd and 20

You mean the draw play? The same play that Brown had his 50 yard run on

who are you trying to make a case for?

Good point. One guy gets half the yardage for a first down, i.e. once the D realized it wasn't a pass, he still didn't get close to a first. Brown is able to get past the defense on the same play and that is supposed to make it seem like a negative on Brown? In 406 career carries, Trent hasn't come close to a 50 yard run and Brown got the 50 because it was a draw play, not because he is just more explosive.

Also, mentioning that Brown is 6-46-1TD on one drive as a sign that the Colts suddenly got better blocking and that is Trent's issue is silly. Trent has eclipsed that one drive in 4 games this year with a ceiling of 60 yards and needed 13, 18, 18 and 20 carries. In Trent's 60 yard game on 20 carries, Brown had more yards in 3 carries.

I don't think Brown is a monster, but in small samples, he has outdone what Richardson has done with a ton of opportunities.

Small samples IS the point.

I'm not knocking Brown for having a longer run. If you go back a few pages you will see me say that Brown is more explosive, but he's not good as an every-down back because he sucks in pass protection and gets his QB killed.

When you bring in extra linemen or run 3 TE sets, wouldn't it stand to reason that you would be more effective at running the ball? A few people here and on other boards have used a couple of drives at the end of those games for justification for why Brown >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TRich and why TRich is a bust.

All I'm saying is that there is more to the story on those drives than just who was carrying the ball, and the Colts' issues running the ball has a lot of other factors involoved besides just who is getting the handoff. TRich may still end up being a bust, but I think it is still too early to write him off.

 

[Jrodicus]

Donald Brown's stats through the first 51:52 of the game: 8 carries, 8 yards.

With a 1 point lead, and just over 8 minutes left in the game, the Colts brought in their run personnel. They brought in extra people to block - McGlynn, Reitz (both G), Havili (FB)...heck, even a LB (Harvey) reported as eligible during that drive. Anybody who could block was put in the game.

TRich did get a carry once they got on the 4 yard line (stuffed for no gain) with both Reitz and Harvey being brought in. Next play, McGlynn is also brought in, and Brown punches it in.

During that drive, Brown's line was: 6, 46, 1 TD

So the run game sucks for 3 1/2 quarters, during which Brown goes for 1 YPC on 8 carries while TRich is 4.75 YPC on his 4 carries. There's one decent drive at the end of the game, with extra blockers, and Brown finishes with a far superior 3.9 YPC compared to TRich's 3.8.

The same thing happened when the Colts/Titans played the first time. The run game sucked for 3 1/2 quarters, then the Colts brought in extra blockers, and the run game started working. In both games Brown was the main back in the 4th quarter; the difference was that this time Brown was the guy getting the carries earlier in the game and getting stuffed.

TRich may very well suck next year, or for the rest of his career. Who knows. But what I do know is that the Colts are a mess right now, and it's pretty silly to think that the book on TRich is complete.

Hold on a hot minute here. Didn't people spend several weeks telling us how Richardson's bad YPC was OK because it was negatively impacted by carries in the 4th quarter with a lead when the defense knew that the Colts were going to be running?

When Richardson was the lead back it wasn't fair to compare them because Richardson got those 4th quarter carries with the lead that bring down a running back's YPC.

When Brown is the lead back it's not fair to compare them because Brown gets those 4th quarter carries with the lead that improve a running back's YPC?

I don't know. I really wasn't on the TRich bandwagon when he was being touted as the 2nd coming of ___________ (fill in the blank for great RBs of lore).

He still might end up sucking. All I know is that right now, at what he is being traded for, I think the risk is worth the reward.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

When you bring in extra linemen or run 3 TE sets, wouldn't it stand to reason that you would be more effective at running the ball? A few people here and on other boards have used a couple of drives at the end of those games for justification for why Brown >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TRich and why TRich is a bust.

That's the thing though, when Richardson was the one getting those end of game carries out of big sets it was used as a reason why his YPC was so low. It was impossible for anyone to succeed on those late game runs. But when Brown gets those carries and does well with them, it's impossible for anyone not to succeed with them.

All I'm saying is that there is more to the story on those drives than just who was carrying the ball, and the Colts' issues running the ball has a lot of other factors involoved besides just who is getting the handoff.

That hasn't really been the case.

Richardson's YPC: 2.8

Everyone else's YPC: 5.1

I agree with you that Richardson is a good buy low candidate because of his upside. But he's a buy-low candidate in the hope that HE will get better, because right now HE is the problem. He has excessively poor vision that was masked at Alabama because there was always a big hole right in the spot that the play was designed to go to (a situation that will never occur in the NFL). If that giant hole isn't there, he gets indecisive and the play fails, even if there was a big gaping cutback lane for him to run through. He also needs to drop some weight and get some of his explosiveness back because right now he gets out of his cuts about as quickly as Brandon Jacobs, who people are always screaming at when he tries to get shifty.

Trying to blame everything on the Colts or circumstance only scares people away from your whole argument, because we're to the point where the odds of all of this happening to Richardson by mere circumstance are so astronomically small that it's not even worth considering. He didn't just happen to get the 108 worse handoffs that the Colts have had this year while his teammates just happened upon the 125 best. He made those 108 handoffs the worst the Colts have had this year and several below average NFL running backs have looked much better than him when given his role.

Sure, running back for the Colts isn't a premiere spot for a RB to succeed right now. But it's not NEARLY as bad as Richardson has made it look.

 

[hxperson]

The O-line, Donald Brown, and Richardson all suck right now. I'm not sure what there is to debate any more about that. Trich has upside for next year, but there is A LOT to fix this offseason before I'd have any hope of him being fantasy relevant.

 

[humpback]

The O-line, Donald Brown, and Richardson all suck right now. I'm not sure what there is to debate any more about that. Trich has upside for next year, but there is A LOT to fix this offseason before I'd have any hope of him being fantasy relevant.

The only one of those things that isn't debatable is Richardson.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

The O-line, Donald Brown, and Richardson all suck right now.

Somehow you seem to have missed the fact that Donald Brown has actually played pretty well this year. And Ballard and Bradshaw were both effective behind the same o-line that actually seems to only suck when Richardson is taking the handoffs. No one is talking up Donald Brown as anything more than a JAG -- but the fact that virtually every RB on the Colts outside of Richardson has been successful this year is a massive red flag for Richardson as a player. Blaming anything on the line, the offense, or the play calling became absurd months ago.

 

[hxperson]

The O-line, Donald Brown, and Richardson all suck right now.

Somehow you seem to have missed the fact that Donald Brown has actually played pretty well this year. And Ballard and Bradshaw were both effective behind the same o-line that actually seems to only suck when Richardson is taking the handoffs. No one is talking up Donald Brown as anything more than a JAG -- but the fact that virtually every RB on the Colts outside of Richardson has been successful this year is a massive red flag for Richardson as a player. Blaming anything on the line, the offense, or the play calling became absurd months ago.

What the hell are you talking about? Did I not say T-Rich sucks? I'm not sure what the haters would be satisfied with what people say any more. I own Brown...did you not watch the last 2 weeks? or 3 of the last 4 weeks? He sucks, and that O-line too. Anyone who says otherwise is just being a hater. Does T-Rich suck more than both? Sure. But that doesn't mean they aren't bad.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

The O-line, Donald Brown, and Richardson all suck right now.

Somehow you seem to have missed the fact that Donald Brown has actually played pretty well this year. And Ballard and Bradshaw were both effective behind the same o-line that actually seems to only suck when Richardson is taking the handoffs. No one is talking up Donald Brown as anything more than a JAG -- but the fact that virtually every RB on the Colts outside of Richardson has been successful this year is a massive red flag for Richardson as a player. Blaming anything on the line, the offense, or the play calling became absurd months ago.

What the hell are you talking about? Did I not say T-Rich sucks? I'm not sure what the haters would be satisfied with what people say any more. I own Brown...did you not watch the last 2 weeks? or 3 of the last 4 weeks? He sucks, and that O-line too. Anyone who says otherwise is just being a hater. Does T-Rich suck more than both? Sure. But that doesn't mean they aren't bad.

Interesting that you think a guy averaging 5.3 per carry and almost 9 per catch sucks.

Also interesting that a line paving the way for 110 rushing yards / game @ 4.4 YPC with 15 TDs in 12 games evidently sucks, too.

The ONLY thing in Indy that sucks is Trent Richardson himself.

 

[Jrodicus]

When you bring in extra linemen or run 3 TE sets, wouldn't it stand to reason that you would be more effective at running the ball? A few people here and on other boards have used a couple of drives at the end of those games for justification for why Brown >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TRich and why TRich is a bust.

That's the thing though, when Richardson was the one getting those end of game carries out of big sets it was used as a reason why his YPC was so low. It was impossible for anyone to succeed on those late game runs. But when Brown gets those carries and does well with them, it's impossible for anyone not to succeed with them.

All I'm saying is that there is more to the story on those drives than just who was carrying the ball, and the Colts' issues running the ball has a lot of other factors involoved besides just who is getting the handoff.

That hasn't really been the case.

Richardson's YPC: 2.8

Everyone else's YPC: 5.1

I agree with you that Richardson is a good buy low candidate because of his upside. But he's a buy-low candidate in the hope that HE will get better, because right now HE is the problem. He has excessively poor vision that was masked at Alabama because there was always a big hole right in the spot that the play was designed to go to (a situation that will never occur in the NFL). If that giant hole isn't there, he gets indecisive and the play fails, even if there was a big gaping cutback lane for him to run through. He also needs to drop some weight and get some of his explosiveness back because right now he gets out of his cuts about as quickly as Brandon Jacobs, who people are always screaming at when he tries to get shifty.

Trying to blame everything on the Colts or circumstance only scares people away from your whole argument, because we're to the point where the odds of all of this happening to Richardson by mere circumstance are so astronomically small that it's not even worth considering. He didn't just happen to get the 108 worse handoffs that the Colts have had this year while his teammates just happened upon the 125 best. He made those 108 handoffs the worst the Colts have had this year and several below average NFL running backs have looked much better than him when given his role.

Sure, running back for the Colts isn't a premiere spot for a RB to succeed right now. But it's not NEARLY as bad as Richardson has made it look.

One straw man at a time, please.

I'm talking about a couple specific drives that many people have been referring to. They happened to be at the end of the game, but the bigger point was the personnel that was being brought in to block.

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I'm not saying, "Trent is the greatest! Go buy him now at all costs! You guys will be sorry! LOLZ!!!!!1" I'm just saying that things change.

"He made those 108 handoffs the worst the Colts have had this year." He has had some decent runs in there, too...and believe it or not, Brown has some bad ones as well. Brown is faster in the open field, so it's not surprising that he has longer runs when he gets into space. Trent has had some decent runs as well, just not as long. But they both get hit in the backfield on a regular basis, which is a function of personnel and scheme, not the talent of the RB.

I don't think Brown could be a consistent 20 carries/game back because of his poor pass protection (he just wouldn't be in the game for enough plays to get the touches). TRich, while not as explosive in the open field, is better at pass protection and, given the right circumstances and motivation, could carry a full load.

 

[humpback]

The O-line, Donald Brown, and Richardson all suck right now.

Somehow you seem to have missed the fact that Donald Brown has actually played pretty well this year. And Ballard and Bradshaw were both effective behind the same o-line that actually seems to only suck when Richardson is taking the handoffs. No one is talking up Donald Brown as anything more than a JAG -- but the fact that virtually every RB on the Colts outside of Richardson has been successful this year is a massive red flag for Richardson as a player. Blaming anything on the line, the offense, or the play calling became absurd months ago.

What the hell are you talking about? Did I not say T-Rich sucks? I'm not sure what the haters would be satisfied with what people say any more. I own Brown...did you not watch the last 2 weeks? or 3 of the last 4 weeks? He sucks, and that O-line too. Anyone who says otherwise is just being a hater. Does T-Rich suck more than both? Sure. But that doesn't mean they aren't bad.

The last 4 weeks he's averaged 4.19 ypc, he's had 8 receptions for 86 yards, and 4 total TDs. He's only had 1 bad game (where he only got 3 touches). You seriously think that sucks?

 

[hxperson]

The O-line, Donald Brown, and Richardson all suck right now.

Somehow you seem to have missed the fact that Donald Brown has actually played pretty well this year. And Ballard and Bradshaw were both effective behind the same o-line that actually seems to only suck when Richardson is taking the handoffs. No one is talking up Donald Brown as anything more than a JAG -- but the fact that virtually every RB on the Colts outside of Richardson has been successful this year is a massive red flag for Richardson as a player. Blaming anything on the line, the offense, or the play calling became absurd months ago.

What the hell are you talking about? Did I not say T-Rich sucks? I'm not sure what the haters would be satisfied with what people say any more. I own Brown...did you not watch the last 2 weeks? or 3 of the last 4 weeks? He sucks, and that O-line too. Anyone who says otherwise is just being a hater. Does T-Rich suck more than both? Sure. But that doesn't mean they aren't bad.

Interesting that you think a guy averaging 5.3 per carry and almost 9 per catch sucks.

Also interesting that a line paving the way for 110 rushing yards / game @ 4.4 YPC with 15 TDs in 12 games evidently sucks, too.

The ONLY thing in Indy that sucks is Trent Richardson himself.

Yes I do, because I actually watch the games rather than just looking at the stats. But if you want stats, how about the fact that the Indy line has allowed 91 QB hits, the second most in the NFL? Donald Brown's ypc is 4.2 over the last 4 games - nothing special, and he hasn't been able to get the tough yards when they need it. The last game, Brown had something like 8 carries for 8 yards until garbage time. No doubt Trent is the worst RB on their team right now by a mile, but Brown has not looked good and its been frustrating to watch.

 

[Jrodicus]

The O-line, Donald Brown, and Richardson all suck right now.

Somehow you seem to have missed the fact that Donald Brown has actually played pretty well this year. And Ballard and Bradshaw were both effective behind the same o-line that actually seems to only suck when Richardson is taking the handoffs. No one is talking up Donald Brown as anything more than a JAG -- but the fact that virtually every RB on the Colts outside of Richardson has been successful this year is a massive red flag for Richardson as a player. Blaming anything on the line, the offense, or the play calling became absurd months ago.

What the hell are you talking about? Did I not say T-Rich sucks? I'm not sure what the haters would be satisfied with what people say any more. I own Brown...did you not watch the last 2 weeks? or 3 of the last 4 weeks? He sucks, and that O-line too. Anyone who says otherwise is just being a hater. Does T-Rich suck more than both? Sure. But that doesn't mean they aren't bad.

Interesting that you think a guy averaging 5.3 per carry and almost 9 per catch sucks.

Also interesting that a line paving the way for 110 rushing yards / game @ 4.4 YPC with 15 TDs in 12 games evidently sucks, too.

The ONLY thing in Indy that sucks is Trent Richardson himself.

Interesting you didn't notice the bolded part. Over the past 3 weeks, Brown is 4.5 / carry and 5.5 / catch. Trent is 3.73 / carry and 6 / catch. That's with only 10 carries/game by Brown and 5 carries/game by TRich. Interesting how the averages start to shift when they change roles. Brown's average is still better, but not 2x's better.

Also interesting that 110 yards game is only good for 20th in the league. Also interesting that Luck has been hit more times the past 2 seasons than any other QB in the league.

Also interesting how bad Indy has been playing lately without Wayne...or the extremely high percentage of dropped passes the Colts have...or that Luck is getting 25 rushing yards/game while he is scrambling for his life.

But yeah, that offense is great right now except for TRich.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I agree that the people talking about cutting him are reactive and short-sighted, but I'm not sure where you're seeing his dynasty value plummeting to any great extent. He's RB9 in the FBG consensus dynasty rankings; the lowest any individual staffer has him is RB16. Looking through the dynasty trade thread, he's consistently brought return far above what his production alone would dictate. In most decent leagues, you're not getting the guy without coughing up something solid in return. Put a tangible value on it -- where do you take him in a startup? Where should he be ranked among RBs and overall? Paying RB1 prices for a guy who just got benched for Donald Brown isn't close to a "buy low" in my book.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Never said that Indy in general, or the line, or Donald Brown is / are great. They're not. But neither do they suck. IMO Brown is average at best, as is the Colts' o-line in the ground game, but "sucks" is way too strong. This is a playoff team that has gotten good rushing production from every RB on the roster except one.

 

[humpback]

The O-line, Donald Brown, and Richardson all suck right now.

Somehow you seem to have missed the fact that Donald Brown has actually played pretty well this year. And Ballard and Bradshaw were both effective behind the same o-line that actually seems to only suck when Richardson is taking the handoffs. No one is talking up Donald Brown as anything more than a JAG -- but the fact that virtually every RB on the Colts outside of Richardson has been successful this year is a massive red flag for Richardson as a player. Blaming anything on the line, the offense, or the play calling became absurd months ago.

What the hell are you talking about? Did I not say T-Rich sucks? I'm not sure what the haters would be satisfied with what people say any more. I own Brown...did you not watch the last 2 weeks? or 3 of the last 4 weeks? He sucks, and that O-line too. Anyone who says otherwise is just being a hater. Does T-Rich suck more than both? Sure. But that doesn't mean they aren't bad.

Interesting that you think a guy averaging 5.3 per carry and almost 9 per catch sucks.

Also interesting that a line paving the way for 110 rushing yards / game @ 4.4 YPC with 15 TDs in 12 games evidently sucks, too.

The ONLY thing in Indy that sucks is Trent Richardson himself.

Yes I do, because I actually watch the games rather than just looking at the stats. But if you want stats, how about the fact that the Indy line has allowed 91 QB hits, the second most in the NFL? Donald Brown's ypc is 4.2 over the last 4 games - nothing special, and he hasn't been able to get the tough yards when they need it. The last game, Brown had something like 8 carries for 8 yards until garbage time. No doubt Trent is the worst RB on their team right now by a mile, but Brown has not looked good and its been frustrating to watch.

Garbage time? They had a 1 pt. lead with 8 minutes to play heading into that drive. They took 6 minutes off of the clock before scoring the TD to put them up 8, and Brown played a major part in that. I'd call that the opposite of garbage time or not being able to get the tough yards when they need it.

No one is saying Brown is or has been great, but if you think he completely sucks, then Richardson shouldn't be able to make a CFL roster.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I've just been skimming some of this recent stuff --- has the richardson 'debate' undergone some kind of renaissance or am I not understanding?

 

[hxperson]

The O-line, Donald Brown, and Richardson all suck right now.

Somehow you seem to have missed the fact that Donald Brown has actually played pretty well this year. And Ballard and Bradshaw were both effective behind the same o-line that actually seems to only suck when Richardson is taking the handoffs. No one is talking up Donald Brown as anything more than a JAG -- but the fact that virtually every RB on the Colts outside of Richardson has been successful this year is a massive red flag for Richardson as a player. Blaming anything on the line, the offense, or the play calling became absurd months ago.

What the hell are you talking about? Did I not say T-Rich sucks? I'm not sure what the haters would be satisfied with what people say any more. I own Brown...did you not watch the last 2 weeks? or 3 of the last 4 weeks? He sucks, and that O-line too. Anyone who says otherwise is just being a hater. Does T-Rich suck more than both? Sure. But that doesn't mean they aren't bad.

Interesting that you think a guy averaging 5.3 per carry and almost 9 per catch sucks.

Also interesting that a line paving the way for 110 rushing yards / game @ 4.4 YPC with 15 TDs in 12 games evidently sucks, too.

The ONLY thing in Indy that sucks is Trent Richardson himself.

Yes I do, because I actually watch the games rather than just looking at the stats. But if you want stats, how about the fact that the Indy line has allowed 91 QB hits, the second most in the NFL? Donald Brown's ypc is 4.2 over the last 4 games - nothing special, and he hasn't been able to get the tough yards when they need it. The last game, Brown had something like 8 carries for 8 yards until garbage time. No doubt Trent is the worst RB on their team right now by a mile, but Brown has not looked good and its been frustrating to watch.

Garbage time? They had a 1 pt. lead with 8 minutes to play heading into that drive. They took 6 minutes off of the clock before scoring the TD to put them up 8, and Brown played a major part in that. I'd call that the opposite of garbage time or not being able to get the tough yards when they need it.

No one is saying Brown is or has been great, but if you think he completely sucks, then Richardson shouldn't be able to make a CFL roster.

You are right I should have said "late in the game" instead of garbage time. But he stunk most of the game, and was killing me until that final drive. Richardson may not be able to make a CFL roster - I'm not saying he should. I don't get how anyone is interpreting my posts as anything positive on Richardson. He is terrible right now.

 

[Jrodicus]

Never said that Indy in general, or the line, or Donald Brown is / are great. They're not. But neither do they suck. IMO Brown is average at best, as is the Colts' o-line in the ground game, but "sucks" is way too strong. This is a playoff team that has gotten good rushing production from every RB on the roster except one.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on semantics. If Brown is "average at best," then average is his ceiling. If your celieing is average, than you're most likely considered "below average" by most. If your major fault with the statement is that "suck" is too strong of a word, then you're at least partially agreeing (in principle anyway).

 

[need2know]

I dropped this turd a few weeks back in redraft and I noticed somebody in my league picked him up. Dropped ivory for him. Guess they haven't watched much football this year

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Never said that Indy in general, or the line, or Donald Brown is / are great. They're not. But neither do they suck. IMO Brown is average at best, as is the Colts' o-line in the ground game, but "sucks" is way too strong. This is a playoff team that has gotten good rushing production from every RB on the roster except one.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on semantics. If Brown is "average at best," then average is his ceiling. If your celieing is average, than you're most likely considered "below average" by most. If your major fault with the statement is that "suck" is too strong of a word, then you're at least partially agreeing (in principle anyway).

Somewhat semantics, sure. But while Brown is indeed IMO "average at best" taking his career as a whole both prior and likely moving forward, he has played (surprisingly) well this year, and looked good the 3-4 times I've watched the Colts. He certainly hasn't "sucked" this year by any reasonable measuring stick.

 

[Jrodicus]

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I agree that the people talking about cutting him are reactive and short-sighted, but I'm not sure where you're seeing his dynasty value plummeting to any great extent. He's RB9 in the FBG consensus dynasty rankings; the lowest any individual staffer has him is RB16. Looking through the dynasty trade thread, he's consistently brought return far above what his production alone would dictate. In most decent leagues, you're not getting the guy without coughing up something solid in return. Put a tangible value on it -- where do you take him in a startup? Where should he be ranked among RBs and overall? Paying RB1 prices for a guy who just got benched for Donald Brown isn't close to a "buy low" in my book.

I posted earlier about the trades I made for him. (#1916) I'm pretty sure a late 1st for TRich is quite a bit less than what he was bringing in the offseason.

With dynasty, don't most young, upside guys bring return far above what their prediction would dictate? Potential longevity inflates prices...it's just the way it works. Would you trade Gio for RBush right now?

If you were trading for TRich, you weren't trading for what his is, but what you hope he becomes. Prices and expectations were probably too high. Now, personally, I think they may be too low, or at least at a point where it is worth the risk.

I wouldn't pay RB1 prices for him, and from what I see, the most recent FBG rankings has him 14th for dynasty. I think this is probably about right (I might have him a tad lower)...and I wouldn't expect him to make it past the 4th round in a startup.

 

[Jrodicus]

Never said that Indy in general, or the line, or Donald Brown is / are great. They're not. But neither do they suck. IMO Brown is average at best, as is the Colts' o-line in the ground game, but "sucks" is way too strong. This is a playoff team that has gotten good rushing production from every RB on the roster except one.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on semantics. If Brown is "average at best," then average is his ceiling. If your celieing is average, than you're most likely considered "below average" by most. If your major fault with the statement is that "suck" is too strong of a word, then you're at least partially agreeing (in principle anyway).

Somewhat semantics, sure. But while Brown is indeed IMO "average at best" taking his career as a whole both prior and likely moving forward, he has played (surprisingly) well this year, and looked good the 3-4 times I've watched the Colts. He certainly hasn't "sucked" this year by any reasonable measuring stick.

Are you talking about when runs the ball, or when he wiffs on blocks and gets Luck pancaked?

I've always like Brown as a runner, and was upset that he didn't play more during the Peyton era. But, after seeing his pass protection over the past few years, I can understand why he hasn't gotten more snaps during his career.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Never said that Indy in general, or the line, or Donald Brown is / are great. They're not. But neither do they suck. IMO Brown is average at best, as is the Colts' o-line in the ground game, but "sucks" is way too strong. This is a playoff team that has gotten good rushing production from every RB on the roster except one.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on semantics. If Brown is "average at best," then average is his ceiling. If your celieing is average, than you're most likely considered "below average" by most. If your major fault with the statement is that "suck" is too strong of a word, then you're at least partially agreeing (in principle anyway).

Somewhat semantics, sure. But while Brown is indeed IMO "average at best" taking his career as a whole both prior and likely moving forward, he has played (surprisingly) well this year, and looked good the 3-4 times I've watched the Colts. He certainly hasn't "sucked" this year by any reasonable measuring stick.

Are you talking about when runs the ball, or when he wiffs on blocks and gets Luck pancaked?

I've always like Brown as a runner, and was upset that he didn't play more during the Peyton era. But, after seeing his pass protection over the past few years, I can understand why he hasn't gotten more snaps during his career.

and this is the guy that held richardson to 13 snaps

 

[Abrantes]

I hope we can at least agree that when he was in there, Bradshaw looked like the best RB on the Colts roster.

 

[Jrodicus]

Never said that Indy in general, or the line, or Donald Brown is / are great. They're not. But neither do they suck. IMO Brown is average at best, as is the Colts' o-line in the ground game, but "sucks" is way too strong. This is a playoff team that has gotten good rushing production from every RB on the roster except one.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on semantics. If Brown is "average at best," then average is his ceiling. If your celieing is average, than you're most likely considered "below average" by most. If your major fault with the statement is that "suck" is too strong of a word, then you're at least partially agreeing (in principle anyway).

Somewhat semantics, sure. But while Brown is indeed IMO "average at best" taking his career as a whole both prior and likely moving forward, he has played (surprisingly) well this year, and looked good the 3-4 times I've watched the Colts. He certainly hasn't "sucked" this year by any reasonable measuring stick.

Are you talking about when runs the ball, or when he wiffs on blocks and gets Luck pancaked?

I've always like Brown as a runner, and was upset that he didn't play more during the Peyton era. But, after seeing his pass protection over the past few years, I can understand why he hasn't gotten more snaps during his career.

and this is the guy that held richardson to 13 snaps

Yeah...and how did the pass protection look last week? Was it better or worse with Brown in there?

 

[pghrob]

Knowshon Moreno seems to have improved this year. Maybe Richardson will be a late bloomer. Moreno seems ultra hyped up this year. How about those freaky huge tears that poured from his eyes this past Sunday? Trent Richardson needs to talk to Knowshon on how to tap into the intense emotional energy needed to elevate his performance.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Never said that Indy in general, or the line, or Donald Brown is / are great. They're not. But neither do they suck. IMO Brown is average at best, as is the Colts' o-line in the ground game, but "sucks" is way too strong. This is a playoff team that has gotten good rushing production from every RB on the roster except one.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on semantics. If Brown is "average at best," then average is his ceiling. If your celieing is average, than you're most likely considered "below average" by most. If your major fault with the statement is that "suck" is too strong of a word, then you're at least partially agreeing (in principle anyway).

Somewhat semantics, sure. But while Brown is indeed IMO "average at best" taking his career as a whole both prior and likely moving forward, he has played (surprisingly) well this year, and looked good the 3-4 times I've watched the Colts. He certainly hasn't "sucked" this year by any reasonable measuring stick.

Are you talking about when runs the ball, or when he wiffs on blocks and gets Luck pancaked?

I've always like Brown as a runner, and was upset that he didn't play more during the Peyton era. But, after seeing his pass protection over the past few years, I can understand why he hasn't gotten more snaps during his career.

I'm talking total contribution -- no, he's not Ahmad Bradshaw as a blocker. But neither is Richardson (-2.6 as a pass blocker last year per PFF). If Richardson holds an advantage as a blocker, it's slight, and more than made up for by how much better Brown is with the ball in his hands as of now.

 

[humpback]

Yes I do, because I actually watch the games rather than just looking at the stats. But if you want stats, how about the fact that the Indy line has allowed 91 QB hits, the second most in the NFL? Donald Brown's ypc is 4.2 over the last 4 games - nothing special, and he hasn't been able to get the tough yards when they need it. The last game, Brown had something like 8 carries for 8 yards until garbage time. No doubt Trent is the worst RB on their team right now by a mile, but Brown has not looked good and its been frustrating to watch.

Garbage time? They had a 1 pt. lead with 8 minutes to play heading into that drive. They took 6 minutes off of the clock before scoring the TD to put them up 8, and Brown played a major part in that. I'd call that the opposite of garbage time or not being able to get the tough yards when they need it.

No one is saying Brown is or has been great, but if you think he completely sucks, then Richardson shouldn't be able to make a CFL roster.

You are right I should have said "late in the game" instead of garbage time. But he stunk most of the game, and was killing me until that final drive. Richardson may not be able to make a CFL roster - I'm not saying he should. I don't get how anyone is interpreting my posts as anything positive on Richardson. He is terrible right now.

I don't think anyone is interpreting your posts as anything positive on Richardson, at least I know I'm not. The part I'm disagreeing with is that Brown has sucked.

It seems quite a few Richardson fans/owners are trying to make themselves feel better by saying things like "Brown has sucked too", when it really isn't true. Even if you somehow convince yourself that he has, it should only lower your opinion of Richardson because there's no way anyone can argue that he hasn't sucked far worse.

 

[squistion]

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I agree that the people talking about cutting him are reactive and short-sighted, but I'm not sure where you're seeing his dynasty value plummeting to any great extent. He's RB9 in the FBG consensus dynasty rankings; the lowest any individual staffer has him is RB16. Looking through the dynasty trade thread, he's consistently brought return far above what his production alone would dictate. In most decent leagues, you're not getting the guy without coughing up something solid in return. Put a tangible value on it -- where do you take him in a startup? Where should he be ranked among RBs and overall? Paying RB1 prices for a guy who just got benched for Donald Brown isn't close to a "buy low" in my book.

I honestly can't see that. I own Richardson in two leagues, so I would hope he has that value, but I can't imagine taking him as my #1 RB in a startup and would probably also pass on him as my #2. I don't have current rankings done, but off the top of my head I would probably have him slotted at RB25.

 

[glock]

Someone posted earlier- in jets I believe- that maybe Richardson needs glasses/contacts. Is this play and it's outcome legit?

If so, how could he make that cut?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@mchappell51: As noted by @FO_ScottKacsmar, #colts Andrew Luck with 336 rushing yds. Trent Richardson with 326. Expect the gap to widen

 

[Jrodicus]

I didn't get to see much of the game yesterday, but followed some play-by-play on my phone. How did TRich look yesterday? What happened with Brown? It looked like he didn't get many touches in the 2nd half.

 

[hxperson]

I didn't get to see much of the game yesterday, but followed some play-by-play on my phone. How did TRich look yesterday? What happened with Brown? It looked like he didn't get many touches in the 2nd half.

Nothing is wrong with Brown or the Indy O-line, TRich is the only problem with this offense.

 

[FUBAR]

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I agree that the people talking about cutting him are reactive and short-sighted, but I'm not sure where you're seeing his dynasty value plummeting to any great extent. He's RB9 in the FBG consensus dynasty rankings; the lowest any individual staffer has him is RB16. Looking through the dynasty trade thread, he's consistently brought return far above what his production alone would dictate. In most decent leagues, you're not getting the guy without coughing up something solid in return. Put a tangible value on it -- where do you take him in a startup? Where should he be ranked among RBs and overall? Paying RB1 prices for a guy who just got benched for Donald Brown isn't close to a "buy low" in my book.

I honestly can't see that. I own Richardson in two leagues, so I would hope he has that value, but I can't imagine taking him as my #1 RB in a startup and would probably also pass on him as my #2. I don't have current rankings done, but off the top of my head I would probably have him slotted at RB25.

9 is too high, but from the Backs currently in the NFL (so not counting next year's rookie crop), where should he be grouped?

Charles, Forte, McCoy, Lacy, Bernard, Bell, Lynch, Martin

Foster, AD, Morris, Stacy, Spiller, Bush, Murray?, Moreno, Ball...

Then it gets fuzzy. I think I'd take him soon after these guys.

 

[FUBAR]

Yes I do, because I actually watch the games rather than just looking at the stats. But if you want stats, how about the fact that the Indy line has allowed 91 QB hits, the second most in the NFL? Donald Brown's ypc is 4.2 over the last 4 games - nothing special, and he hasn't been able to get the tough yards when they need it. The last game, Brown had something like 8 carries for 8 yards until garbage time. No doubt Trent is the worst RB on their team right now by a mile, but Brown has not looked good and its been frustrating to watch.

Garbage time? They had a 1 pt. lead with 8 minutes to play heading into that drive. They took 6 minutes off of the clock before scoring the TD to put them up 8, and Brown played a major part in that. I'd call that the opposite of garbage time or not being able to get the tough yards when they need it.

No one is saying Brown is or has been great, but if you think he completely sucks, then Richardson shouldn't be able to make a CFL roster.

You are right I should have said "late in the game" instead of garbage time. But he stunk most of the game, and was killing me until that final drive. Richardson may not be able to make a CFL roster - I'm not saying he should. I don't get how anyone is interpreting my posts as anything positive on Richardson. He is terrible right now.

I don't think anyone is interpreting your posts as anything positive on Richardson, at least I know I'm not. The part I'm disagreeing with is that Brown has sucked.

It seems quite a few Richardson fans/owners are trying to make themselves feel better by saying things like "Brown has sucked too", when it really isn't true. Even if you somehow convince yourself that he has, it should only lower your opinion of Richardson because there's no way anyone can argue that he hasn't sucked far worse.

The only way I'm trying to make myself feel better is by looking at Thomas Jones early career and Lynch's 2009-2010 years.

 

[new-guru]

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I agree that the people talking about cutting him are reactive and short-sighted, but I'm not sure where you're seeing his dynasty value plummeting to any great extent. He's RB9 in the FBG consensus dynasty rankings; the lowest any individual staffer has him is RB16. Looking through the dynasty trade thread, he's consistently brought return far above what his production alone would dictate. In most decent leagues, you're not getting the guy without coughing up something solid in return. Put a tangible value on it -- where do you take him in a startup? Where should he be ranked among RBs and overall? Paying RB1 prices for a guy who just got benched for Donald Brown isn't close to a "buy low" in my book.

I honestly can't see that. I own Richardson in two leagues, so I would hope he has that value, but I can't imagine taking him as my #1 RB in a startup and would probably also pass on him as my #2. I don't have current rankings done, but off the top of my head I would probably have him slotted at RB25.

9 is too high, but from the Backs currently in the NFL (so not counting next year's rookie crop), where should he be grouped?

Charles, Forte, McCoy, Lacy, Bernard, Bell, Lynch

Foster, AD, Morris, Stacy, Spiller, Bush, Murray?, Moreno, Ball...

Then it gets fuzzy. I think I'd take him soon after these guys.

D. Martin would be higher

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Richardson would have to "wow" me in preseason for me to take him off my "do not draft" list. I'd sooner take a valuable handcuff over him, even if he was announced as Colts starter. I really hope that one of my league mates has him in his top 9.

 

[FUBAR]

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I agree that the people talking about cutting him are reactive and short-sighted, but I'm not sure where you're seeing his dynasty value plummeting to any great extent. He's RB9 in the FBG consensus dynasty rankings; the lowest any individual staffer has him is RB16. Looking through the dynasty trade thread, he's consistently brought return far above what his production alone would dictate. In most decent leagues, you're not getting the guy without coughing up something solid in return. Put a tangible value on it -- where do you take him in a startup? Where should he be ranked among RBs and overall? Paying RB1 prices for a guy who just got benched for Donald Brown isn't close to a "buy low" in my book.

I honestly can't see that. I own Richardson in two leagues, so I would hope he has that value, but I can't imagine taking him as my #1 RB in a startup and would probably also pass on him as my #2. I don't have current rankings done, but off the top of my head I would probably have him slotted at RB25.

9 is too high, but from the Backs currently in the NFL (so not counting next year's rookie crop), where should he be grouped?

Charles, Forte, McCoy, Lacy, Bernard, Bell, Lynch

Foster, AD, Morris, Stacy, Spiller, Bush, Murray?, Moreno, Ball...

Then it gets fuzzy. I think I'd take him soon after these guys.

D. Martin would be higher

yep. Forgot about him.

 

[cstu]

Someone posted earlier- in jets I believe- that maybe Richardson needs glasses/contacts. Is this play and it's outcome legit?

If so, how could he make that cut?

I can't speak to that exact play but it's what I saw over and over again on Game Rewind watching his playing. Maybe not to that extreme but the decisions he makes are baffling.

Jim Brown knew what he was talking about - Richardson is indeed ordinary (1:40).

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I agree that the people talking about cutting him are reactive and short-sighted, but I'm not sure where you're seeing his dynasty value plummeting to any great extent. He's RB9 in the FBG consensus dynasty rankings; the lowest any individual staffer has him is RB16. Looking through the dynasty trade thread, he's consistently brought return far above what his production alone would dictate. In most decent leagues, you're not getting the guy without coughing up something solid in return. Put a tangible value on it -- where do you take him in a startup? Where should he be ranked among RBs and overall? Paying RB1 prices for a guy who just got benched for Donald Brown isn't close to a "buy low" in my book.

I honestly can't see that. I own Richardson in two leagues, so I would hope he has that value, but I can't imagine taking him as my #1 RB in a startup and would probably also pass on him as my #2. I don't have current rankings done, but off the top of my head I would probably have him slotted at RB25.

No one can, expect those jokers. I can't believe you have to pay for that information.

 

[Da Guru]

Any comments from Mike Holmgren as of late?

 

[squistion]

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I agree that the people talking about cutting him are reactive and short-sighted, but I'm not sure where you're seeing his dynasty value plummeting to any great extent. He's RB9 in the FBG consensus dynasty rankings; the lowest any individual staffer has him is RB16. Looking through the dynasty trade thread, he's consistently brought return far above what his production alone would dictate. In most decent leagues, you're not getting the guy without coughing up something solid in return. Put a tangible value on it -- where do you take him in a startup? Where should he be ranked among RBs and overall? Paying RB1 prices for a guy who just got benched for Donald Brown isn't close to a "buy low" in my book.

I honestly can't see that. I own Richardson in two leagues, so I would hope he has that value, but I can't imagine taking him as my #1 RB in a startup and would probably also pass on him as my #2. I don't have current rankings done, but off the top of my head I would probably have him slotted at RB25.

No one can, expect those jokers. I can't believe you have to pay for that information.

I think the problem is that people (and not just staffers) don't like to admit their initial take on a player coming into the NFL may have been dead wrong. Contrary to what some people will tell you, there is no such thing as a "can't miss" player. Richardson may very well turn things around starting next year, but the people advocating this the most were his biggest supporters to begin with. Perceived talent, combine numbers and draft "pedigree" does not guarantee success in the NFL.

 

[Jrodicus]

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I agree that the people talking about cutting him are reactive and short-sighted, but I'm not sure where you're seeing his dynasty value plummeting to any great extent. He's RB9 in the FBG consensus dynasty rankings; the lowest any individual staffer has him is RB16. Looking through the dynasty trade thread, he's consistently brought return far above what his production alone would dictate. In most decent leagues, you're not getting the guy without coughing up something solid in return. Put a tangible value on it -- where do you take him in a startup? Where should he be ranked among RBs and overall? Paying RB1 prices for a guy who just got benched for Donald Brown isn't close to a "buy low" in my book.

I honestly can't see that. I own Richardson in two leagues, so I would hope he has that value, but I can't imagine taking him as my #1 RB in a startup and would probably also pass on him as my #2. I don't have current rankings done, but off the top of my head I would probably have him slotted at RB25.

No one can, expect those jokers. I can't believe you have to pay for that information.

I think the problem is that people (and not just staffers) don't like to admit their initial take on a player coming into the NFL may have been dead wrong. Contrary to what some people will tell you, there is no such thing as a "can't miss" player. Richardson may very well turn things around starting next year, but the people advocating this the most were his biggest supporters to begin with. Perceived talent, combine numbers and draft "pedigree" does not guarantee success in the NFL.

He was like #16 RB when I checked awhile back.

 

[pghrob]

Colts just signed Tashard Choice.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I'm not blaming everything on the Colts, or saying that Trent couldn't play better. I'm just saying let's pump the brakes here. His perceived value was too high 6 months ago; I think it may be too low now...or at least worth the risk associated with him.

I agree that the people talking about cutting him are reactive and short-sighted, but I'm not sure where you're seeing his dynasty value plummeting to any great extent. He's RB9 in the FBG consensus dynasty rankings; the lowest any individual staffer has him is RB16. Looking through the dynasty trade thread, he's consistently brought return far above what his production alone would dictate. In most decent leagues, you're not getting the guy without coughing up something solid in return. Put a tangible value on it -- where do you take him in a startup? Where should he be ranked among RBs and overall? Paying RB1 prices for a guy who just got benched for Donald Brown isn't close to a "buy low" in my book.

I honestly can't see that. I own Richardson in two leagues, so I would hope he has that value, but I can't imagine taking him as my #1 RB in a startup and would probably also pass on him as my #2. I don't have current rankings done, but off the top of my head I would probably have him slotted at RB25.

No one can, expect those jokers. I can't believe you have to pay for that information.

I think the problem is that people (and not just staffers) don't like to admit their initial take on a player coming into the NFL may have been dead wrong. Contrary to what some people will tell you, there is no such thing as a "can't miss" player. Richardson may very well turn things around starting next year, but the people advocating this the most were his biggest supporters to begin with. Perceived talent, combine numbers and draft "pedigree" does not guarantee success in the NFL.

He was like #16 RB when I checked awhile back.

He's top 10 if the rankings submission date parameter is set to 14 days (default setting). If you go back to Nov 19th, someone still has him ranked #1. The #1 dynasty RB is Trent Richardson?