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The Trent Richardson Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter False Start
- Start date
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Now that you ask, I don't recall exactly. This person said 'management'.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Ballard way undervalued right now IMO. He's going to see some playing time and might be a RB3/4 type even if Richardson pans out or the Colts refuse to admit they make a mistake. There's upside from there too if Richardson doesn't get it sorted.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
Yeah, Colts' haven't made it secret that they want to be a run-first team...they just haven't been good at it. With a healthy Allen and hopefully an improved line, there's going to be fantasy value in that backfield, even if it isn't TRich.
Phenix
Footballguy
No one will touch Ballard in my league with a 10 ft pole. I have offered him for 3rds this year or picks nexts year. I have been laughed at even for that, people will realize Richardson is done and Ballard will have value in due time.
Bob Barker
Footballguy
If you are so high on ballard and think his value is gonna rise why are you trying to trade him for a 3rd?
Gandalf
Footballguy
I was watching some of Trich's runs and he literally had his head down, eyes pointed to the ground. Never seen that before. Or maybe just never noticed it if RBs other RBs do it. Seems like that might have been a big part of the issue. And might go along with that defensive player saying that he was scared of getting hurt.
Phenix
Footballguy
Where did I say I was "high on him," I just said he will have value in due time.
I have a bunch of RBs, I try to move a player where I can. Maybe it is a good thing no one accepted the offers, who knows?
But the #2 RB behind a Richardson has some value and this news wasn't out there when I was trying to move Ballard.
duaneok66
Footballguy
I still don't get this. On more carries than TRich had, the other Colts running backs averaged 5 ypc to his 2.9ypc. So, you can either say it was luck, but that was close to 200 carries and only the Eagles did better as a team at 5.1 ypc.
If the Colts OL was so bad, how come everyone else did well? And by well, I mean in 172 carries, they were the 2nd best running team in the NFL in ypc.
paytonsdaman
Footballguy
We are going in circles here. How many of the Eagles were aquired in the middle of the season or any YPC leader? I'm sure any player aquired would have a negative impact to their YPC. Let's gve TRIch another few games to prove himself. If he can't do it with Nicks (new addition), TY. Hilton (increased role), Wayne (coming back) and Allen (coming back) then I'd say he's given up if a fringe 1st rounder can rush like D. Brown did last season.
Circles? How about we stop with the mid-season thing. Once again, TRich played 16 total games with the Colts last year, including 14 in the regular season. 14 regular season games and 16 total <> mid-season. 16 games isn't enough? Seems like he proved himself so much that in the most important games of the year, they ignored TRich.
How about Bradshaw? He, unlike TRich, didn't even get to play in the pre-season. He played 3 games, starting the last two games.
7-26 3.7 ypc
14-65 1TD 4.3 ypc
19-95 1TD 5.0 ypc
So, in conclusion, Bradshaw, who like TRich had never played with the Colts before and had no pre-season/practice warm ups, got 2 starts and in those 2 starts had better games than TRich did in 2 games with Cleveland and 16 games with the Colts. Or are you trying to say that the mid-season trade is why TRich never once in 18 total games was able to get to Bradshaw's 4.3 ypc or 65 yards in a single game?
TRich will have his opportunity this year because he is under contract, but the whole problems with the OL and "mid-season" talk is a bunch of BS. The other RBs and TRich showed that without a shadow of a doubt in 2013.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
as far as I'm concerned the Colts are all in on TRich and that spells value to me. They let Brown walk, the 2 guys backing him up had surgery last yr and they didn't sniff another RB even in this soft market yr.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Richardson is definitely going to get every chance to succeed from the Colts.
I just dont think he will.
I just dont think he will.
TheLurkerBelow
Footballguy
Agreed. I think they'll go into the season with the three they have now, and hope that they're able to 'coach up' Richardson to take advantage of his physical talent at a level well beyond what he displayed last season. I doubt he'll ever be the star in the league people had projected, but I'm of the belief that a quality organization can put him on a much more productive path for the future.
jurb26
Footballguy
I don't think it's likely, either. Crazier things have happened though. I agree that Indy has a lot of other holes to fill that should take precedence.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I honestly don't think it matters if Indy drafts a RB or not. They have a 1st invested in Richardson, so he's getting first crack at the job regardless of who else is there. Opportunity isn't going to be an issue -- whether he's capable of taking advantage of it is another story entirely. If he plays like he did last year, Bradshaw, Ballard, or any random street FA will be pushing him aside just like Donald Brown did last year.
Did you read my post? TRich had way more opportunity to learn the playbook and develop chemistry. He played in the pre-season, Bradshaw did not. He played 16 games with the Colts and Bradshaw played 3. Yet, all that said, Bradshaw in those 3 games put up 2 games that were better than all 16 games that TRich played with the Colts and the only game that wasn't better than every game TRich played was Bradshaw's first action of the year and he had only 3 carries.
Stop blaming "mid-season", the OL and lack of chemistry/playbooks. He played 16 games with the Colts. The rest of the RBs averaged 5 ypc on close to 200 carries. RB is the easiest position to play and the reason why guys like Bobby Rainey can explode the first time they get an opportunity. A transplant like Bradshaw had less "chemistry" time and still played way better when he was healthy. TRich flat out stunk in every way shape or form.
I agree with Couer de Lion, he will get an opportunity, but I don't have any faith that he will seize it anymore than he did last year. It is almost like people forget that he was given the opportunity last year and was so bad, they basically ignored him in the playoffs. He had 157 carries. While that doesn't seem like a lot, the next highest was Brown with 102. In FF, I would have no faith in TRich providing anything more than bench time on a FF team.
Sweet Love
IBL Representative
While I whole-heartedly agree with your point about how it is ridiculous he could not pick up the offense, and the lack of chemistry, you are flat-out wrong about when he joined the team. Richardson was traded midseason to the Colts...he did not have a preseason with them, or play 16 game with them.
I still think he should have done more (he is not a QB coming to a team midseason), but he was dropped in there a few games in.
Todem
Footballguy
There is no denying the fact he stunk.....really bad last season. Hence his huge drop in value in FF circles. He has a great shot to turn it around though and the opportunity (which is a huge part of drafting guys) will be there for the taking.
Will he take it by the horns and run with it?
One of the great FF mysteries heading into 2014.
I think he is capable of turning it around....and quickly. We will know during the pre-season. Do we get the guy who looked like a bull in a china shop on a lousy Browns team as a rookie? Or the bumbling clueless RB that arrived to Indy in 2013. His rookie season I saw a ton of promise. he was dinged up most of the year, but ran hard every week and showed soft hands and nose for the endzone.
Believe me......we will all know in the pre-season in his limted carries....and more importantly in pre-season game 3 when he will get a full half. Either he will be hitting the holes with authority, catching balls and breaking tackles and going north and south.......or dancing around going nowhere like he did in 2013.
I am willing to bet he can be a productive back in that offense and catch at least 45 balls but have a high side in receptions of over 55. The physical talent is certainly there. The question is between the ears now and his overall health.
He presents compelling value in a redraft and in a dynasty if you can steal him for a song and take a shot. His value is in the basement right now. If your going to buy.....the time is right now.
Will he take it by the horns and run with it?
One of the great FF mysteries heading into 2014.
I think he is capable of turning it around....and quickly. We will know during the pre-season. Do we get the guy who looked like a bull in a china shop on a lousy Browns team as a rookie? Or the bumbling clueless RB that arrived to Indy in 2013. His rookie season I saw a ton of promise. he was dinged up most of the year, but ran hard every week and showed soft hands and nose for the endzone.
Believe me......we will all know in the pre-season in his limted carries....and more importantly in pre-season game 3 when he will get a full half. Either he will be hitting the holes with authority, catching balls and breaking tackles and going north and south.......or dancing around going nowhere like he did in 2013.
I am willing to bet he can be a productive back in that offense and catch at least 45 balls but have a high side in receptions of over 55. The physical talent is certainly there. The question is between the ears now and his overall health.
He presents compelling value in a redraft and in a dynasty if you can steal him for a song and take a shot. His value is in the basement right now. If your going to buy.....the time is right now.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He's including the two playoff games. Richardson was traded after Week 2, so he had 14 regular season games and 2 playoff games with Indy.
Exactly. Mid-season is week 9, i.e. half a season. Mid-season <> starting with a team in week 3. Slice it however you want, the Colts saw him play 16 games.
Also, throw in the fact that he went through a pre-season regimen with the Browns, so it wasn't like he wasn't physically ready. He was more prepared to play for the Colts than say Bradshaw who had no pre-season reps at all, so he was physically behind as well as being part of a new team and again, in the 2 games he got more than 7 carries, he outperformed all 16 games of TRich.
I am very interested in him because I think his value is probably as low as it can go, although I could easily see Ballard, Bradshaw and/or a rookie shine brighter. Via injuries, I had to start Brown quite a few times as a RB2 and he performed very well a few games, enough to make the RB1 in Indy FF viable. That said, let's close the book on 2013 and stop blaming chemistry, mid-season, OL, etc., when the facts clearly show that none of those should have resulted in what he did.
I agree with you that it was not mid season when he was traded and he should have performed better. That being said, a preseason with another team/scheme/playbook may get you in physical shape, but it does not mean you can just pop into any system and succeed. Maybe Pep's system was over his head or maybe he didn't study/work hard enough to understand it. Either way, I think it's still too early to label him a bust.
Exactly. Mid-season is week 9, i.e. half a season. Mid-season <> starting with a team in week 3. Slice it however you want, the Colts saw him play 16 games.
Also, throw in the fact that he went through a pre-season regimen with the Browns, so it wasn't like he wasn't physically ready. He was more prepared to play for the Colts than say Bradshaw who had no pre-season reps at all, so he was physically behind as well as being part of a new team and again, in the 2 games he got more than 7 carries, he outperformed all 16 games of TRich.
I am very interested in him because I think his value is probably as low as it can go, although I could easily see Ballard, Bradshaw and/or a rookie shine brighter. Via injuries, I had to start Brown quite a few times as a RB2 and he performed very well a few games, enough to make the RB1 in Indy FF viable. That said, let's close the book on 2013 and stop blaming chemistry, mid-season, OL, etc., when the facts clearly show that none of those should have resulted in what he did.
My guess is he is a young, naïve kid who thought he would have just as easy a time succeeding in the NFL as he did in college and HS. Maybe he was overwhelmed by how different it is and doesn't know how to work hard to adapt. This year will be very telling. I'm willing to give him another shot based on his youth, the fact that he had some injuries and was bounced around a bit last two years. If I don't see any progress this year I'm done with him. That will tell me that either Norv saw something negative in this kid that was unchangeable, or the colts are terrible at developing young talent. Either way I'm selling while his name still gets some kind of value at that point.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
Yes, I did read your post.
Yes, he had a preseason - with another team that had different players and a different playbook. Hence, my comment that plabook and chemistry, which are learned and developed during the offseason, must not be important in your mind. Your rationale reminds me of a Mitch Hedberg joke. http://www.cc.com/video-clips/a963eb/comedy-central-presents-being-a-comedian-in-hollywood Can you farm?
This wouldn't be the first time that a RB has had success in one system but not in another. Maybe he can't learn the system, or maybe he just wasn't able to pick up all the wrinkles of it during the season. I guess we'll have to wait and see this fall which once is the case.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
In NFL terms, Richardson sucked in 2012 too. Same crappy YPC, same complete lack of big plays, poor vision and no burst. He had a good fantasy year purely as a volume based compiler, but NFL-wise he was well below average.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
why have so many people missed this. He didnt play well with the Browns......................he played slightly worse with the Colts.
But oh wait, he played with broken ribs. .......but his YPC with broken ribs was the same as with ship shape ribs...........
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TheLurkerBelow
Footballguy
I don't think people missed that he didn't have a great season with the Browns in 2012 (3.6 ypc is atrocious), but I think many were willing to put a lot of that blame on the terrible Brown team and passing attack that season. If a RB always sees eight men in the box and the QB doesn't have an arm, then his ability to get big chunks of yards is going to be very limited. Despite that terrible Brown team he was still a top 10 fantasy RB, I'll take that kind of accumulation any day.why have so many people missed this. He didnt play well with the Browns......................he played slightly worse with the Colts.
But oh wait, he played with broken ribs. .......but his YPC with broken ribs was the same as with ship shape ribs...........
Anyway, I'm not a Richardson apologist, just trying to put some perspective on your statement because I don't think people "missed" it, there were just other factors that could have explained it. The fact that he bombed in Indy is incredibly telling and certainly seems to indicate that he isn't all he was touted to be. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I still think he has a chance to be productive with good coaching, but I think the idea that he'll be a super star fantasy RB is a dead dream.
ClevelandRocks
Footballguy
I'm very torn on Trich, saw the good and the bad first hand, I lean more on the side of I'll let another owner deal with whatever he produces, price it too high for me even still.
I can see him being productive but never regaining the value he once had, which many owners still hold on to that price tag.
I can see him being productive but never regaining the value he once had, which many owners still hold on to that price tag.
jurb26
Footballguy
Richardson looked like a capable, and at times very good, ball carrier in Clev. He looked like poo in Indy. While the averages may have been similar I think many assumed the ribs took a toll on his game in Clev because he simply looked better at times there. Not much else to it IMO.
To me Richardson only has a shot at being successful if he becomes a characteristically different guy from the guy he is now. I don't find any explanation by way of situational variables--his trade to the Colts, not grasping the offense, only being used on obvious running downs (unlike Brown)--to be compelling at all any more. I wanted them to be last season; I had a lot invested in the guy.
I know there have been countless comparisons to other first round RBs who turned it around, but the story that stands out to me is Marshawn Lynch, and anything short of Richardson going to a coach like Lynch did, and asking for help with a total transformation in mindset and approach, would fall short of what Richardson really needs in my opinion.
I know there have been countless comparisons to other first round RBs who turned it around, but the story that stands out to me is Marshawn Lynch, and anything short of Richardson going to a coach like Lynch did, and asking for help with a total transformation in mindset and approach, would fall short of what Richardson really needs in my opinion.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
have they talked to CJ at all?
Spike
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
Remember how good mcfadden looked in one blocking scheme vs. another? Some guys are good in one system and not another. With an offseason to work together, the colts could tinker with their blocking, and tinker with trents running style, to improve the fit. That doesn't mean it will work, but there is precedent. Its entirely possible that richardson is an outright bust, but the people acting like they are certain one way or the other are just being absurd.
The real question isn't whether richardson can bounce back (he can), or whether he will (nobody knows). The real question is what price he's worth in redraft or dynasty leagues. In redraft, his value is near the bottom of the starting backs. He's got big potential upside, but his risk is through the roof. I would take him in the same range as tate and ryan mathews, ahead of mcfadden/mjd and whoever the saints rb is for now, and work from there. That range will change as we get closer to august.
In dynasty, his value is higher because of the potential upside of having a stud rb in one of the better offenses in the nfl. The colts needle is pointed up, and if richardson plays well, he can be a big part of that. But even if he plays poorly, the team could be good enough to make him relevant until they get rid of him. If he flashes fantasy potential, his dynasty trade value will go up quickly, whether he ends up being good enough to deserve it or not. I would say his value is ahead of older backs like chris johnson (who I like a lot), reggie bush, but behind lynch and other true rb1 types with short time left.
The real question isn't whether richardson can bounce back (he can), or whether he will (nobody knows). The real question is what price he's worth in redraft or dynasty leagues. In redraft, his value is near the bottom of the starting backs. He's got big potential upside, but his risk is through the roof. I would take him in the same range as tate and ryan mathews, ahead of mcfadden/mjd and whoever the saints rb is for now, and work from there. That range will change as we get closer to august.
In dynasty, his value is higher because of the potential upside of having a stud rb in one of the better offenses in the nfl. The colts needle is pointed up, and if richardson plays well, he can be a big part of that. But even if he plays poorly, the team could be good enough to make him relevant until they get rid of him. If he flashes fantasy potential, his dynasty trade value will go up quickly, whether he ends up being good enough to deserve it or not. I would say his value is ahead of older backs like chris johnson (who I like a lot), reggie bush, but behind lynch and other true rb1 types with short time left.
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I don't think Lynch is a good analogy at all. Yes, he had 2 bad years, but that was following two 1000+ years in his first two years with 4.0 and 4.1 ypc. I have no idea why he stunk with the Seahawks, but he had a bad year with the Bills before even joining the Seahawks. Also, other than his fantastic 2012 (his career year), his two other really good years with the Seahawks were at 4.2 ypc, so right about what he did with the Bills in his first two years in the league. Outside of his career year in 2012, Lynch with the Seahawks is about what "good" Lynch was with the Bills.
Lynch stumbled in year 3 (with the Bills) and 4 (after trade), no idea why, but his first 2 years were far better than TRich's and those Bills weren't great teams. Shouldn't TRich do better with Luck as his QB than Lynch did with Trent Edwards?
Sorry, but grasping on Lynch's bad years is ignoring the fact that his first two years were good and got Lynch to the Pro-Bowl.
It really isn't. There are far too many examples of RBs who got barely any reps in pre-season and were virtually ignored all year only to break out when called upon.
Again, Bradshaw missed all of pre-season and didn't have the advantage of being physically prepared in Browns camp, yet in the 2 games he had more than 7 carries (he only played 3), he had better rushing games than TRich had in all 18 total games with the Browns and Colts.
Let's just stop trying to make excuses for the guy in 2013 and keep it on 2014. He got in a full pre-season, so he was healthy/physically ready to start the season. He got in 18 games and still couldn't break 64 yards rushing and in only 1 game did he get to 4.0ypc and that was all he got, 4.0 ypc. In the easiest position to learn and come out of nowhere and with Luck as his QB, he still only once had even a mediocre game.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
You keep going back to the number of reps in preseason well. Again, his reps came on a different team in a different system.
Please, give me some examples of all these players who swithced teams during the regular season...any time during the regular season....who broke out when they were called upon.
That whole offense looked like a stinking pile of poop for a number of weeks - from the time they lost Reggie against Denver until they finally benched DHB. Luck can't help DHB catch the ball; that guy would drop a hand-off.
hxperson
Footballguy
I'm not holding out much hope for Richardson being a good back next year. But I do wish Indy had had the luxury of actually being patient with him last year and committing to him as their lead back. Then I'd have a much better sense of how hopeless the situation actually is. I can't remember watching any sequences last year where TRich was in the game for more than 5 snaps in a row. A lot of this was his fault for being so terrible on first and second down that they didn't get to a 4th down, but a lot was also him being pulled for Donald Brown when it appeared he was just starting to gain momentum, especially during passing downs or near the goal line. The frequency of the latter opens up the possibility that some of his failures could be attributable to the fact that he's a power back that needs a lot of carries to really get going, or that he lacked of confidence in his abilities and the system. There are other possibilities as well but these are the two that are top of mind for me.
As it stands, Richardson is an RB that runs hard but has a complete lack of vision, hesitates too often, has very little burst, and mediocre blocking and hands. I'm open minded about him fixing this, but I'm not holding my breath.
As it stands, Richardson is an RB that runs hard but has a complete lack of vision, hesitates too often, has very little burst, and mediocre blocking and hands. I'm open minded about him fixing this, but I'm not holding my breath.
Not sure where you see me grasping at Lynch's bad seasons. I was referring to a parallel willingness to approach the coaching staff and attempt an overhaul for how he plays the position, nothing more.
