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Tony Stewart killed Driver Kevin Ward in an on track incident (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Smack Tripper
- Start date
CurlyNight
Footballguy
I don't know how anyone can tell from the vid what exactly happened for sure. I mean sound travels for one. The vid is from across the track, not by the cars and no matter how you slow it down, the angle is not good at all to know what happened when much less what was in Stewart's mind. He will probably get unintentional manslaughter or maybe nothing if they can't prove for sure he was trying to scare him instead of trying to get away from him.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
Dumb question but I'm not a lawyer so- if he claimed responsibility here and (didnt read article but assume he) didn't face criminal charges, can he claim responsibility for friday night and that not necessarily lead to criminal charges? Or will his lawyers have him claiming it was an accident with nobody responsible til the end? This is a hypothetical, not ensenuating he is responsible.N Zone said:
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Gary Coal Man
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
after we defer to the racing "experts", then we have to defer to the lawyer "experts". Only then will we know how this all ends.
FigJam
Footballguy
All I keep hearing about is Tony Stewarts supposed rage... Maybe I was watching the wrong video, but I am sure it was the kid that got 'SPUN' (not rolled multiple times as initially reported) that ran down the track and almost got run over by the car in front of Stewart. That car had to swerve hard down the track to avoid him, and I am sure blocked TS's view as to where the raged out kid was. Personally I can't stand Stewart, but the bottom line is, he wasn't the one out of his car creating the unsafe situation here.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Officer Pete Malloy said:
G
Guest
Guest
Again, take the subject matter out of it. ABC Good Morning America discussing that it's controversial, but steadfastly refusing to even discuss why. Won't even hint that there is, let alone what is, questionable about Stewart's behavior. Two analysts both danced around any culpability, while simultaneously stating that authorities are taking a close look at the incident. Last guy was asked what charges could be, and mentioned 2nd Degree Murder, then immediately said that we should look at this first, however, as if no charges will be filed.
The obvious editorial decision not to speak to any specific negative behavior by Stewart is disturbing. It shows how tightly controlled media is, and deferential to an interest (whether fear of a lawsuit or corporate - or both) over responsibility to report truth.
Again, separate the incident from the "journalistic" practices - and it's pretty sad to see how propagandized our news has become. It is not supposed to be like that, and frankly if GMA takes that line of blurring church and state, they should have to disclose their money ties to NASCAR in the story IMO.
The obvious editorial decision not to speak to any specific negative behavior by Stewart is disturbing. It shows how tightly controlled media is, and deferential to an interest (whether fear of a lawsuit or corporate - or both) over responsibility to report truth.
Again, separate the incident from the "journalistic" practices - and it's pretty sad to see how propagandized our news has become. It is not supposed to be like that, and frankly if GMA takes that line of blurring church and state, they should have to disclose their money ties to NASCAR in the story IMO.
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Zow
Footballguy
Criminal charging is entirely at the discretion of the state. Once they make the decision to charge there is generally some form of check on that charging by the judiciary (by way of either a grand jury proceeding or a preliminary hearing). But it's a fluid concept subject to some very broad ethical rules open to interpretation. By that, I mean that law enforcement has a ton of discretion to bring charges and have a pretty low burden to meet in doing so. They also likely have plenty if time. I don't know the laws of the state where this took place, but in my jurisdiction they'd have seven years to decide if they wanted to charge him with manslaughter or negligent homicide. If they wanted to charge murder there is no year limitation on when to do so.
So, to your hypo, if I'm Stewart's lawyer it is a no brainer to tell him to never speak to anyone but his lawyer about his mindset in the car.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Here are my thoughts from the moment I first watched the video. After 17 pages, I'm sure somebody else may have mentioned it.
While I know Tony did not mean to kill the poor kid, I do think he was trying to send a message and lost control of either his temper, his car or both.
Tony Stewart has always spoke about teaching the younger drivers about respect, etc.
My assumption is he was trying to scare Ward and misjudged his car.
How anyone can say he is not at all accountable, in any way, is beyond me. Ward did not literally jump in front of him. If Stewart could not see him, he was too close to the car in front of him and probably too high on the race track as well. The car in front of Stewart did not hit Ward.
If a guy is walking in the street at home and I hit him with my car, I have some fault in that. I hit the guy.
Tony Stewart should be held accountable for his actions.
While I know Tony did not mean to kill the poor kid, I do think he was trying to send a message and lost control of either his temper, his car or both.
Tony Stewart has always spoke about teaching the younger drivers about respect, etc.
My assumption is he was trying to scare Ward and misjudged his car.
How anyone can say he is not at all accountable, in any way, is beyond me. Ward did not literally jump in front of him. If Stewart could not see him, he was too close to the car in front of him and probably too high on the race track as well. The car in front of Stewart did not hit Ward.
If a guy is walking in the street at home and I hit him with my car, I have some fault in that. I hit the guy.
Tony Stewart should be held accountable for his actions.
G
Guest
Guest
Scenario 1: you're coming up to a school zone with flashing yellow lights and kids. You slow to the posted 20 MPH. To your right, a 5 year old looking at his shoelaces bounds onto the street walking towards you. What do you do?
Scenario 2: you're driving up to a bank and hear an alarm. To your right, a guy in a mask walks onto the street pointing at you. What do you do?
Hint: one of these involves accelerating. The other does not.
Scenario 2: you're driving up to a bank and hear an alarm. To your right, a guy in a mask walks onto the street pointing at you. What do you do?
Hint: one of these involves accelerating. The other does not.
johnnycakes
Footballguy
What if the guy jumps in front of your car? You still think you're at fault?
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Sure thing. What exactly were those actions that can be unambiguously be attributed to him that were obviously inappropriate and/or failing to exercise any reasonable amount of care? As opposed to those that can be inferred to him for his lengthy history of being an
.Now lets be clear. I'm not arguing that Stewart did not behave exactly as you and others are suggesting, I'm merely saying that there is no evidence in the video that points to this and only this conclusion.
Quez
Footballguy
It has already been stated here multiple times that these cars don't turn well. You have to gas them to be able to make a sharp turn. That is what Tony did. He avoided hitting him with the front of the car, but couldn't avoid hitting him with the back. The wheels are staggared about 15inches, so the rear is out further. The car in front of Tony almost hit the kid. And Tony was on his butt. The only thing Tony probably saw was the rear of the guy in front of him, until he moved and the kid jumped in front if him. The kid was gauging where to jump in like he was going to enter a double dutch jump rope.
Rayderr
Footballguy
As a person who does not watch NASCAR and knows nothing about about Tony Stewart (I know he's a driver, and I think he was in a soda commercial once) having watched the tape, it seems pretty clear to me that it was an accident and a pretty damn good example of why you shouldn't go running out on a track when cars are driving by.
Seems like a lot of people seem to convicting him based solely on their personal feelings of Tony, NASCAR, or the people who watch NASCAR.
Seems like a lot of people seem to convicting him based solely on their personal feelings of Tony, NASCAR, or the people who watch NASCAR.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Scenario 3: you're driving down the road when the car directly in front of you swerves out of the way of a tire in the middle of the lane. You do not have enough time to stop and the tire is rolling at you. The pavement does not have ideal traction. What do you do?
pollardsvision
Footballguy
That throttle does just seem so damning while watching, even knowing I really have no idea what it means.
By my count, 12 cars passed by that spot on the track under caution without needing to hit the throttle. Stewart hitting the throttle seems like it has to be either to avoid Ward or intimidate him. I have no idea what he meant to do, but watching him throttle "into" Ward just looks so bad.
Ward also makes a small attempt to get back up the track and out of the way right when it's too late (someone with a better eye than me would have to figure it that attempt would've succeeded without Stewart's throttling/maneuvering at that moment).
BTW, from what little national media coverage I've heard of this, Ham seems right to me. ESPN has absolutely no interest considering that Stewart might've done something reckless to play a part here.
By my count, 12 cars passed by that spot on the track under caution without needing to hit the throttle. Stewart hitting the throttle seems like it has to be either to avoid Ward or intimidate him. I have no idea what he meant to do, but watching him throttle "into" Ward just looks so bad.
Ward also makes a small attempt to get back up the track and out of the way right when it's too late (someone with a better eye than me would have to figure it that attempt would've succeeded without Stewart's throttling/maneuvering at that moment).
BTW, from what little national media coverage I've heard of this, Ham seems right to me. ESPN has absolutely no interest considering that Stewart might've done something reckless to play a part here.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Okay. I can see Tony Stewart being a sensitive guy who is hurting in private. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.Zow said:
http://thepoodleanddogblog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451580669e2015435eb73f5970c-pi
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
There are people that were at the track that said Stewart mashed the gas to try as if he wanted to scare the kid. That's not an accident it's manslaughter. I don't think Stewart intentionally wanted to hit him (that would be murder) but his temper got the best of him yet again but this time he made an unforgivable mistake because of that temper. Stewart's car should have never been that high on the track after the accident and those saying a couple other cars were high doesn't make it right.
Quez
Footballguy
Rev your engine and fish tail the back end of your vehicle, so that you barely graze the tire. That will teach the tire to ever roll in the middle of the road again!
Quez
Footballguy
He mashed the gas to turn. Sprint cars are like jet-skis, they don't turn until you are on the throttle.
G
Guest
Guest
Clearly I hold my line and hit the throttle just as I get level with the tire, you know, to spray a little dirt on it and scare the rubber off of it. Now I see it!
Rayderr
Footballguy
So, you're agreeing that people are convicting him based on their personal opinions of Tony.
BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
The problem with this scenario is that Stewart knew where that car was on the track since he was part of the accident a lap prior.
Rayderr
Footballguy
He hit the driver standing in the middle of the track, not the car along the wall.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
If you watch it in slow motion with the volume off Stewart's car does not fish tail until after Ward contacts with the rear wheel. Also in slow motion you can see how far Ward is coming down the track and how he had to jump out of the way of the first car. This is going to be ruled an accident as it should be.
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avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Except in this scenario Ward is the tire, not the car.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Oh, I agree. I'm really just commenting on how damning it looks to an ignorant viewer.
I know there are a number reasons for Stewart to have throttled to avoid Ward. I'm not totally sure which method he was choosing though (just get past, turn up the track, or turn down the track). It's possible maybe even Stewart doesn't know.
In hindsight, which Stewart obviously didn't have the benefit of, it does seem as if "doing nothing" was Tony's only option of avoiding Ward, to give Ward that split second to have a chance to get out of the way (as he was trying to do).
If that's true (again, I'm ignorant), then that seems a little damning too, even if it's irrelevant to Stewart's decision in the moment.
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
I doubt that he consciously chose at all. Just reacted instinctively. Seems to me that there is less than a second from the time that the 45 goes by at the 34 second mark and the camera jerks back to the 14 and the accident happens at the 35 second mark. Not a whole lot of time to be running through scenarios in the head on how to avoid him (or scare him).
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
I don't mean to sound insensitive about a guy who lost his life, I just don't think TS had enough time fully assess the situation before making a move, and certainly not enough time to deliberately injure.
G
Guest
Guest
Doesn't the fish tail as he gets level with Ward suggest what many are saying, that he was trying to give him a message with that fishtail? I don't think anyone is saying that the fishtail was meant to hit him with the front of the car, or even the wheel... Just that that sudden acceleration was possibly no accident.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Haven't read the whole thread, but have any of the other drivers said anything? Like that they could or could not see the guy walking?
The General
Footballguy
There's a link a few different times in here to a story where another dirt track driver says he believes Stewart had to have seen where the guy was on the track. The driver who said that was also a friend of the guy who got hit who was being interviewed pretty much right after this happened.
G
Guest
Guest
I gave a scenario where it's a kid in a school zone bounding towards a car, what do you do?
In reality, it was more like a squirrel in a school zone.
Me, I'm proud to say I've never hit a squirrel, though I've slowed, skidded or swerved to avoid many. But you'll often see a redneck in a truck not give one ####... Not going to swerve, not going to brake. #### it. In this case, and in my opinion, TS was that guy. Ultimately, you don't convict the guy in the truck and squirrels don't have it coming, per se, but they make it easy to hit them.
At best, I'm settling on the realization that Tony Stewart is just an #######. I don't like it, and if he were a little better person he could have avoided a squirrel. He just didn't really care to.
May be impossible to prove he hit that throttle to send a message. I doubt charges get filed, but I still think the guy is guilty of being a Class a #### hole.
In reality, it was more like a squirrel in a school zone.
Me, I'm proud to say I've never hit a squirrel, though I've slowed, skidded or swerved to avoid many. But you'll often see a redneck in a truck not give one ####... Not going to swerve, not going to brake. #### it. In this case, and in my opinion, TS was that guy. Ultimately, you don't convict the guy in the truck and squirrels don't have it coming, per se, but they make it easy to hit them.
At best, I'm settling on the realization that Tony Stewart is just an #######. I don't like it, and if he were a little better person he could have avoided a squirrel. He just didn't really care to.
May be impossible to prove he hit that throttle to send a message. I doubt charges get filed, but I still think the guy is guilty of being a Class a #### hole.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Tony Stewart normally has a minicam mounted on his sprint cart but he said not this time. I give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he has nothing to hide.
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
Watch the initial crash again. Does TS's car actually touch the kid's and force it to crash? It looks like the kid started to slide out of control on his own and hit the wall. Maybe TS didn't give him enough room to manuever? It doesn't look to me like TS actually *bumps* the kid in to the wall.. doesn't matter much in the end, but I had originally jumped to the conclusion that TS wrecked this guy and the kid was justified in being pissed off at TS (and nothing more). I'm not much of a race watcher so maybe it's obvious to someone else that the initial wreck was TS's fault?
Need to see a video of the entire track. The go pro video would probably give us a definitive answer at least to TS's visibility of the kid. The fatal hit was a lot closer to turn 2 than I originally thought.
Need to see a video of the entire track. The go pro video would probably give us a definitive answer at least to TS's visibility of the kid. The fatal hit was a lot closer to turn 2 than I originally thought.
Rayderr
Footballguy
And that's the problem. Ignorant people choosing to damn and convict someone despite the fact that they know practically nothing.
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
I think so after re-watching 20 times with a bunch of pausing. I think TS was on near the same line as the car 1 second ahead, who also slid inward to avoid the kid. I'm starting to not think TS was even trying to intimidate the guy.
Rayderr
Footballguy
So you're saying, Tony went into the race with the intent to kill. So he made sure not to mount the minicam, run his intended victim into the wall, knowing full well that the guy would then get out of his car and run into the middle of the track where Tony could run him over? It was only the world's most intricate and flawlessly-executed plan ever, ever.
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