Tony Stewart killed Driver Kevin Ward in an on track incident (3 Viewers)

[worrierking]

when you watch the video, 1-second passed between the blue car passing Ward and Stewart hitting Ward. Ward is literally half-way down the track at that point - he was in the path of Stewart's car and had no time to move out of the way back up the track. Stewart did not "floor it" until after he came into contact with Ward. Ward simply put himself in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It's difficult to tell when Stewart hit the accelerator, but I agree that it was right at the time when he was striking Ward, allowing that the microphone is attached to the camera which is at least 100 feet away, so it's inexact.

If you watch the video, right at the 30-second mark, there is a white and red car (can't read a number) that passes Ward and that car is every bit as high on the track as Stewart was, but Ward was higher. After that car and another that was lower on the track pass by, Ward takes a couple of strides, or jumps down farther on the track. He's four or five feet below. Then the blue #45 come by down near the apron and then Stewart up high like the earlier white and red car. Ward may have been struck by that white and red car had he been in the same spot he was in when Stewart approached.

As somebody else mentioned, Ward is way down the track when Stewart hit him. It's hard to get perfect perspective, but he appears to be well below half way down the track just before being struck. He was in this position only for the blue #45 and Stewart to pass.

From this video, I don't see any evidence that makes me think this was in any way Stewart's fault, but it would be instructive to see an angle in which you could see Stewart approaching. In this video, the videographer followed the blue #45 a bit past Ward and was panning back to the right just in time to see the impact, so you see nothing of Stewart's approach. Eyewitnesses said Stewart fishtailed into him but you can't really see that. It makes sense that he would be fishtailing in that ward avoided the front tire but was struck by the rear. These cars fishtail through all turns when they are at racing speed, but I don't really see that when they slow down for the caution.

 

[Tom Servo]

Stock car driver POV.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Stock car driver POV.

"I don't buy it."

 

[Rohn Jambo]

when you watch the video, 1-second passed between the blue car passing Ward and Stewart hitting Ward. Ward is literally half-way down the track at that point - he was in the path of Stewart's car and had no time to move out of the way back up the track. Stewart did not "floor it" until after he came into contact with Ward. Ward simply put himself in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Pretty clear he hit the throttle well before hitting Ward.What it means is obviously unclear but it seems clear to me that his hitting the throttle was a reaction to seeing Ward.

Disagree completely here - after re-re-watching it. Stewart does not hit the throttle until he is already on Ward.

watch it again, and focus on when the Blue 45 car goes by at 0:34 seconds, Stewart is on Ward at 0:35 seconds, and then hits the throttle.

I hope someone else has a video from a better angle, and not already blackmailing Tony Stewart.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Stock car driver POV.

"I don't buy it."

That's what it looks like when you sit in the back of a police car after you get arrested.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Here's a video from a helmet cam in a car like Stewart was in. I don't know if it helps, but it's interesting:

All he said there is that he could see Ward and that Ward was angry.

Try again

 

[pollardsvision]

when you watch the video, 1-second passed between the blue car passing Ward and Stewart hitting Ward. Ward is literally half-way down the track at that point - he was in the path of Stewart's car and had no time to move out of the way back up the track. Stewart did not "floor it" until after he came into contact with Ward. Ward simply put himself in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Pretty clear he hit the throttle well before hitting Ward.

What it means is obviously unclear but it seems clear to me that his hitting the throttle was a reaction to seeing Ward.

Disagree completely here - after re-re-watching it. Stewart does not hit the throttle until he is already on Ward.

watch it again, and focus on when the Blue 45 car goes by at 0:34 seconds, Stewart is on Ward at 0:35 seconds, and then hits the throttle.

I shouldn't have used the word "clear" because it's anything but, but I do think he hit throttle before he got to Ward. I've seen it about 30 times, and I can see room for both interpretations.

But I can hear the throttle engaging when Ward is a few feet in front of Stewart, and I have no clue what sort of delay is involved with sound traveling.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Might have already been posted, but this is the perspective from someone that works on the car that went by before Stewart.

https://twitter.com/DirtTrackTweets/status/498570864997064706/photo/1

What say you Rohn Jambo?

 

[TenTimes]

Is it bad (or wrong) that I'm starting to think TS had a split second to navigate a sitauation he's never faced before and made exactly the right move, and am kinda impressed

 

[squidrope]

Might have already been posted, but this is the perspective from someone that works on the car that went by before Stewart.

https://twitter.com/DirtTrackTweets/status/498570864997064706/photo/1

What say you Rohn Jambo?

Have you looked at some of the in sprint car video linked earlier? A video isn't subjective

 

[Mr.Pack]

Is it bad (or wrong) that I'm starting to think TS had a split second to navigate a sitauation he's never faced before and made exactly the right move, and am kinda impressed

After watching the video quite a few times, it sure does look like TS was following the #45, the #45 saw Ward at the last second and ditched low to miss him, TS didn't have time to ditch it low and that was that.

 

[pollardsvision]

Is it bad (or wrong) that I'm starting to think TS had a split second to navigate a sitauation he's never faced before and made exactly the right move, and am kinda impressed

What's the move you speak of?

 

[sublimeone]

Have the newbs been convinced yet that driving a sprint car, on a dirt track, at night is not the same as cruising through the neighborhood on a sunny day in their Ford Escort?

 

[Mr.Pack]

Might have already been posted, but this is the perspective from someone that works on the car that went by before Stewart.

https://twitter.com/DirtTrackTweets/status/498570864997064706/photo/1

What say you Rohn Jambo?

Have you looked at some of the in sprint car video linked earlier? A video isn't subjective

There wasn't video there, it was a statement from the #45 cars crew chief.

 

[TenTimes]

Is it bad (or wrong) that I'm starting to think TS had a split second to navigate a sitauation he's never faced before and made exactly the right move, and am kinda impressed

What's the move you speak of?

Well my knowledge of these cars is based strictly on what I've read in this thread so take that fwiw.

I think he tried to fish tail or slide his car inward by gunning it.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Might have already been posted, but this is the perspective from someone that works on the car that went by before Stewart.

https://twitter.com/DirtTrackTweets/status/498570864997064706/photo/1

What say you Rohn Jambo?

Have you looked at some of the in sprint car video linked earlier? A video isn't subjective

There wasn't video there, it was a statement from the #45 cars crew chief.

Car 45 did not see Tony Stewart sliding up the track to hit Kevin Ward.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Is it bad (or wrong) that I'm starting to think TS had a split second to navigate a sitauation he's never faced before and made exactly the right move, and am kinda impressed

You'd better retract that statement before I report you.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

So I assume that these "dirt showers" are relatively common? That I would have no trouble finding example videos if I knew how to do the search?

I've spent a lot of time at dirt tracks and I've never been witness to that or even heard of it happening.

I pretty much expected this answer when I asked the question.

 

[squidrope]

Might have already been posted, but this is the perspective from someone that works on the car that went by before Stewart.

https://twitter.com/DirtTrackTweets/status/498570864997064706/photo/1

What say you Rohn Jambo?

Have you looked at some of the in sprint car video linked earlier? A video isn't subjective

There wasn't video there, it was a statement from the #45 cars crew chief.

Car 45 did not see Tony Stewart sliding up the track to hit Kevin Ward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XvhrPu64Co

That slowed down video shows Stewart drifting before the impact.

Nobody should be drifting while under yellow.

Stewart shouldn't have gunned his engine if he was just trying to avoid Ward. (I'm not suggesting he killed Ward on purpose)

By hitting the throttle the rear steps out to the right which is where Ward was.

 

[Anarchy99]

UNH law professor and Sports Illustrated journalist Michael McCann was on the radio today discussing this, and he felt they will conduct a full criminal investigation and then decide what they have or don't have to charge or not charge Stewart. McCann felt that they probably would never be able to get a murder or manslaughter conviction, but he felt that there could be enough to consider a negligent homicide charge. McCann suggested that Stewart did enough that was atypical during a caution that they may have a case (essentially for reckless driving).

He also felt that Ward's family would likely get a sizable out of court wrongful death settlement, as McCann thought Stewart would rather get this thing behind him and not lose sponsors. With a net worth said to be $100M+, forking over a small percentage of his fortune would make things go away.

He reviews those issues and more here . . .

http://www.si.com/racing/2014/08/10/tony-stewart-kevin-ward-legal-ramifications

(Although I doubt he is a racing expert.)

 

[cosjobs]

at the folks thinking he's not crazy enough to try and make a point to some young punk.

Stewart is a guy who's crazy enough to intentionally wreck other people's cars while going 150+ mph for years.

Bet none of you would do that either?

Hint: what happens on a race track isn't like what happens elsewhere. And Stewart is a nutcase.

This other driver is dead because he let his anger get the best of him and he chose to run onto a race track in the middle of a race. The last thing Tony expected at that point was a person to be standing out in the track while cars are active on the track and he had zero time to react. Unless there is another angle out there that shows something different, this is an accident plain and simple..

Wow, I disagree pretty strongly here. One of the best drivers in the sport has an accident where the other driver creaks into the wall.

A caution flag comes out advising all drivers to reduce their speed and use caution.

This procedure is to allow emergency personnel to safely reach the wrecked car / driver and safely remove either from the track. These guys are running away from the racers, backs turned to reach the wreckage.

All racers at this point know where the wreck was and should be driving with caution in that area in case emergency personnel are there.

Yet one of the finest drivers in the world, who knew where the wreckage was, was incapable of seeing a guy running toward him waving his arms, when minimal career competency would require he routinely avoid much less visible persons during the caution flag.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I don't get the "he was trying to give him a scare" thing. Putting a guy into a wall or bumping him is one thing. But trying to perform a near miss with a car versus a person is crazy. I just don't see that.

Really? I think it's tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt but it, frankly, seems to me to be the most plausible explanation here. Hot head but incredibly talented driver with young hotshot coming at him.

That's the most plausible explanation you come up with from that video? Seriosuly?

It's the one I instantly come up with when I see the video. There's plenty of track below Stewart that he could have used to go around the guy. Instead he clips him.

So none of the facts or lack thereof matter. Because they were both in the same place and because you assume Tony should have been lower, then Tony is guilty of manslaughter (meaning he actually had the criminal intent)?

Strawman much?

 

[Sinn Fein]

at the folks thinking he's not crazy enough to try and make a point to some young punk.

Stewart is a guy who's crazy enough to intentionally wreck other people's cars while going 150+ mph for years.

Bet none of you would do that either?

Hint: what happens on a race track isn't like what happens elsewhere. And Stewart is a nutcase.

This other driver is dead because he let his anger get the best of him and he chose to run onto a race track in the middle of a race. The last thing Tony expected at that point was a person to be standing out in the track while cars are active on the track and he had zero time to react. Unless there is another angle out there that shows something different, this is an accident plain and simple..

Wow, I disagree pretty strongly here.One of the best drivers in the sport has an accident where the other driver creaks into the wall.

A caution flag comes out advising all drivers to reduce their speed and use caution.

This procedure is to allow emergency personnel to safely reach the wrecked car / driver and safely remove either from the track. These guys are running away from the racers, backs turned to reach the wreckage.

All racers at this point know where the wreck was and should be driving with caution in that area in case emergency personnel are there.

Yet one of the finest drivers in the world, who knew where the wreckage was, was incapable of seeing a guy running toward him waving his arms, when minimal career competency would require he routinely avoid much less visible persons during the caution flag.

Yup - lets give a pass to the clown running into oncoming cars.

Every racer has an expectation that people act reasonably, and not run out into traffic. If Ward had stayed in his car until emergence personnel arrived, or at a minimum stayed with his car - this accident never would have happened. Period.

 

[greenroom]

at the folks thinking he's not crazy enough to try and make a point to some young punk.

Stewart is a guy who's crazy enough to intentionally wreck other people's cars while going 150+ mph for years.

Bet none of you would do that either?

Hint: what happens on a race track isn't like what happens elsewhere. And Stewart is a nutcase.

This other driver is dead because he let his anger get the best of him and he chose to run onto a race track in the middle of a race. The last thing Tony expected at that point was a person to be standing out in the track while cars are active on the track and he had zero time to react. Unless there is another angle out there that shows something different, this is an accident plain and simple..

Wow, I disagree pretty strongly here.One of the best drivers in the sport has an accident where the other driver creaks into the wall.

A caution flag comes out advising all drivers to reduce their speed and use caution.

This procedure is to allow emergency personnel to safely reach the wrecked car / driver and safely remove either from the track. These guys are running away from the racers, backs turned to reach the wreckage.

All racers at this point know where the wreck was and should be driving with caution in that area in case emergency personnel are there.

Yet one of the finest drivers in the world, who knew where the wreckage was, was incapable of seeing a guy running toward him waving his arms, when minimal career competency would require he routinely avoid much less visible persons during the caution flag.

So glad we have a expert like you who just assumes what happened and presents them as facts. To bad your not the Sheriff looking at the facts or have years of experience in racing to take your thoughts serious. After viewing two videos they still do not think it was a criminal act.

And what do you put on Mr Ward running around in a dark track, who left his car, after being told just like every other driver don't leave your car unless its a fire. Could Mr. Ward jumped towards Stewarts car and missed? There is nothing to say he did or did not do. Just like there is nothing to say that Mr. Stewart ran over Mr Ward with intent

 

[Da Guru]

at the folks thinking he's not crazy enough to try and make a point to some young punk.

Stewart is a guy who's crazy enough to intentionally wreck other people's cars while going 150+ mph for years.

Bet none of you would do that either?

Hint: what happens on a race track isn't like what happens elsewhere. And Stewart is a nutcase.

This other driver is dead because he let his anger get the best of him and he chose to run onto a race track in the middle of a race. The last thing Tony expected at that point was a person to be standing out in the track while cars are active on the track and he had zero time to react. Unless there is another angle out there that shows something different, this is an accident plain and simple..

Wow, I disagree pretty strongly here.One of the best drivers in the sport has an accident where the other driver creaks into the wall.

A caution flag comes out advising all drivers to reduce their speed and use caution.

This procedure is to allow emergency personnel to safely reach the wrecked car / driver and safely remove either from the track. These guys are running away from the racers, backs turned to reach the wreckage.

All racers at this point know where the wreck was and should be driving with caution in that area in case emergency personnel are there.

Yet one of the finest drivers in the world, who knew where the wreckage was, was incapable of seeing a guy running toward him waving his arms, when minimal career competency would require he routinely avoid much less visible persons during the caution flag.

That is why they tell you to stay in your vehicle until they secure the area around the vehicle. These types of spinouts happen in every sprint car race. It is tragic but Ward should have never came down the track into traffic.

 

[Rayderr]

at the folks thinking he's not crazy enough to try and make a point to some young punk.

Stewart is a guy who's crazy enough to intentionally wreck other people's cars while going 150+ mph for years.

Bet none of you would do that either?

Hint: what happens on a race track isn't like what happens elsewhere. And Stewart is a nutcase.

This other driver is dead because he let his anger get the best of him and he chose to run onto a race track in the middle of a race. The last thing Tony expected at that point was a person to be standing out in the track while cars are active on the track and he had zero time to react. Unless there is another angle out there that shows something different, this is an accident plain and simple..

Wow, I disagree pretty strongly here.One of the best drivers in the sport has an accident where the other driver creaks into the wall.

A caution flag comes out advising all drivers to reduce their speed and use caution.

This procedure is to allow emergency personnel to safely reach the wrecked car / driver and safely remove either from the track. These guys are running away from the racers, backs turned to reach the wreckage.

All racers at this point know where the wreck was and should be driving with caution in that area in case emergency personnel are there.

Yet one of the finest drivers in the world, who knew where the wreckage was, was incapable of seeing a guy running toward him waving his arms, when minimal career competency would require he routinely avoid much less visible persons during the caution flag.

The tracks are pretty short. Emergency crews were most likely just hopping in their vehicles when the cars passed back around.

 

[zDragon]

at the folks thinking he's not crazy enough to try and make a point to some young punk.

Stewart is a guy who's crazy enough to intentionally wreck other people's cars while going 150+ mph for years.

Bet none of you would do that either?

Hint: what happens on a race track isn't like what happens elsewhere. And Stewart is a nutcase.

This other driver is dead because he let his anger get the best of him and he chose to run onto a race track in the middle of a race. The last thing Tony expected at that point was a person to be standing out in the track while cars are active on the track and he had zero time to react. Unless there is another angle out there that shows something different, this is an accident plain and simple..

Wow, I disagree pretty strongly here.One of the best drivers in the sport has an accident where the other driver creaks into the wall.

A caution flag comes out advising all drivers to reduce their speed and use caution.

This procedure is to allow emergency personnel to safely reach the wrecked car / driver and safely remove either from the track. These guys are running away from the racers, backs turned to reach the wreckage.

All racers at this point know where the wreck was and should be driving with caution in that area in case emergency personnel are there.

Yet one of the finest drivers in the world, who knew where the wreckage was, was incapable of seeing a guy running toward him waving his arms, when minimal career competency would require he routinely avoid much less visible persons during the caution flag.

Yup - lets give a pass to the clown running into oncoming cars.

Every racer has an expectation that people act reasonably, and not run out into traffic. If Ward had stayed in his car until emergence personnel arrived, or at a minimum stayed with his car - this accident never would have happened. Period.

 

[cosjobs]

So how many emergency personnel have men run over during caution flags if it's so hideously dangerous. And they are running away, not waving their arms and pointing at the driver.

It's illogical to me.

I agree that the dead kid should not have done it.

I also say a professional driver, during a caution flag should be driving in a manner not to kill anyone at the scene of the accident

 

[ConstruxBoy]

This is almost a real life "the Boy who cried Wolf". Guy is a hot head, has spun other cars, confronted other drivers on the track and off and discussed how young guys need to be taught a lesson. Then this happens. Even if it was purely accidental, and it certainly may have been, the years of crying wolf are coming back to bite him.

 

[Sinn Fein]

So how many emergency personnel have men run over during caution flags if it's so hideously dangerous. And they are running away, not waving their arms and pointing at the driver.

It's illogical to me.

I agree that the dead kid should not have done it.

I also say a professional driver, during a caution flag should be driving in a manner not to kill anyone at the scene of the accident

I am guessing you have not seen the video - because there was nobody at the scene of the original accident, because the driver left his car and was halfway down the track when he was narrowly missed by one driver, only to be hit by the second driver, who came by 1-second after the first driver. Stewart was never in danger of hitting anyone at the scene of the original spin-out.

 

[raidergil]

So how many emergency personnel have men run over during caution flags if it's so hideously dangerous. And they are running away, not waving their arms and pointing at the driver.

It's illogical to me.

I agree that the dead kid should not have done it.

I also say a professional driver, during a caution flag should be driving in a manner not to kill anyone at the scene of the accident

Emergency personnel is a different situation in that they are coming out in a truck with flashing lights. As Kasey Kahne said in an interview, you see the yellows but don't even know where or what the incident is until you come back around. (Kahne is a NASCAR driver who owns dirt teams & long time dirt racer).

 

[Sinn Fein]

This is almost a real life "the Boy who cried Wolf". Guy is a hot head, has spun other cars, confronted other drivers on the track and off and discussed how young guys need to be taught a lesson. Then this happens. Even if it was purely accidental, and it certainly may have been, the years of crying wolf are coming back to bite him.

 

[cosjobs]

So how many emergency personnel have men run over during caution flags if it's so hideously dangerous. And they are running away, not waving their arms and pointing at the driver.

It's illogical to me.

I agree that the dead kid should not have done it.

I also say a professional driver, during a caution flag should be driving in a manner not to kill anyone at the scene of the accident

I am guessing you have not seen the video - because there was nobody at the scene of the original accident, because the driver left his car and was halfway down the track when he was narrowly missed by one driver, only to be hit by the second driver, who came by 1-second after the first driver. Stewart was never in danger of hitting anyone at the scene of the original spin-out.

I saw the video once, too morbid to watch repeatedly, and it seemed to me that it was in the general proximity. If not I stand corrected. But my over riding question remains, should a professional driver be able to avoid such an accident when there are caution flags? What do caution flag mean? I agree the track walking was foolish, stupid and contributing. What I don't get is the TS free pass

 

[raidergil]

So I assume that these "dirt showers" are relatively common? That I would have no trouble finding example videos if I knew how to do the search?

I've spent a lot of time at dirt tracks and I've never been witness to that or even heard of it happening.

Same. Never heard of this. They are racing on hard packed mud, not loose dirt you could kick up with a tug of the wheel. I'm a Stewart fan so know all about his temper, however knowing how much he loves this racing, owns multiple Outlaw teams and is a major dirt track owner, I just think he respects the sport & it's people too much to put someone in danger. For as much dirt racing as he was doing before breaking his leg last yr I had never heard of him fighting with competitors.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I don't get the "he was trying to give him a scare" thing. Putting a guy into a wall or bumping him is one thing. But trying to perform a near miss with a car versus a person is crazy. I just don't see that.

Really? I think it's tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt but it, frankly, seems to me to be the most plausible explanation here. Hot head but incredibly talented driver with young hotshot coming at him.

That's the most plausible explanation you come up with from that video? Seriosuly?

It's the one I instantly come up with when I see the video. There's plenty of track below Stewart that he could have used to go around the guy. Instead he clips him.

So none of the facts or lack thereof matter. Because they were both in the same place and because you assume Tony should have been lower, then Tony is guilty of manslaughter (meaning he actually had the criminal intent)?

Strawman much?

Huh?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

This is almost a real life "the Boy who cried Wolf". Guy is a hot head, has spun other cars, confronted other drivers on the track and off and discussed how young guys need to be taught a lesson. Then this happens. Even if it was purely accidental, and it certainly may have been, the years of crying wolf are coming back to bite him.

I wouldn't say it's funny. More like Alanis Morrissette ironic.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I don't get the "he was trying to give him a scare" thing. Putting a guy into a wall or bumping him is one thing. But trying to perform a near miss with a car versus a person is crazy. I just don't see that.

Really? I think it's tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt but it, frankly, seems to me to be the most plausible explanation here. Hot head but incredibly talented driver with young hotshot coming at him.

That's the most plausible explanation you come up with from that video? Seriosuly?

It's the one I instantly come up with when I see the video. There's plenty of track below Stewart that he could have used to go around the guy. Instead he clips him.

So none of the facts or lack thereof matter. Because they were both in the same place and because you assume Tony should have been lower, then Tony is guilty of manslaughter (meaning he actually had the criminal intent)?

Strawman much?

Huh?

No one that you are arguing with is using legal standards. Almost no one in this thread is arguing that there is any conclusion to be drawn meeting a legal requirement. But you are responding as though Zow or lod01 are arguing legal standards. It's a strawman. Make a moral or ethical argument with them, not a legal one, regardless of whether you and Zow are lawyers.

 

[TenTimes]

So how many emergency personnel have men run over during caution flags if it's so hideously dangerous. And they are running away, not waving their arms and pointing at the driver.

It's illogical to me.

I agree that the dead kid should not have done it.

I also say a professional driver, during a caution flag should be driving in a manner not to kill anyone at the scene of the accident

I am guessing you have not seen the video - because there was nobody at the scene of the original accident, because the driver left his car and was halfway down the track when he was narrowly missed by one driver, only to be hit by the second driver, who came by 1-second after the first driver. Stewart was never in danger of hitting anyone at the scene of the original spin-out.

I saw the video once, too morbid to watch repeatedly, and it seemed to me that it was in the general proximity. If not I stand corrected. But my over riding question remains, should a professional driver be able to avoid such an accident when there are caution flags? What do caution flag mean? I agree the track walking was foolish, stupid and contributing. What I don't get is the TS free pass

Someone else mentioned the blue car 1 second ahead of TS and seemingly (hard to tell from tue video) on a similar line (swerved to miss Ward) was behind TS when the initial wreck happened.

I don't know if that matters or not, I took it to mean TS was more or less on par with what all the other drivers who narrowly missed him were doing on the yellow. Ward was just more aggressive in playing chicken with TS than everyone else.

Whether TS was being wreckless on yellow imo is still speculation because we only see a split second of what he was doing on yellow until he hit Ward, like the driver ahead of him nearly did.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I don't get the "he was trying to give him a scare" thing. Putting a guy into a wall or bumping him is one thing. But trying to perform a near miss with a car versus a person is crazy. I just don't see that.

Really? I think it's tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt but it, frankly, seems to me to be the most plausible explanation here. Hot head but incredibly talented driver with young hotshot coming at him.

That's the most plausible explanation you come up with from that video? Seriosuly?

It's the one I instantly come up with when I see the video. There's plenty of track below Stewart that he could have used to go around the guy. Instead he clips him.

So none of the facts or lack thereof matter. Because they were both in the same place and because you assume Tony should have been lower, then Tony is guilty of manslaughter (meaning he actually had the criminal intent)?

Strawman much?

Huh?

No one that you are arguing with is using legal standards. Almost no one in this thread is arguing that there is any conclusion to be drawn meeting a legal requirement. But you are responding as though Zow or lod01 are arguing legal standards. It's a strawman. Make a moral or ethical argument with them, not a legal one, regardless of whether you and Zow are lawyers.

In the split second that Stewart realized that Ward was in front of him he clearly had plenty of time to run through his mind how he would teach this kid a lesson in respect. That is the most plausible scenario? Under any standard?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I don't get the "he was trying to give him a scare" thing. Putting a guy into a wall or bumping him is one thing. But trying to perform a near miss with a car versus a person is crazy. I just don't see that.

Really? I think it's tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt but it, frankly, seems to me to be the most plausible explanation here. Hot head but incredibly talented driver with young hotshot coming at him.

That's the most plausible explanation you come up with from that video? Seriosuly?

It's the one I instantly come up with when I see the video. There's plenty of track below Stewart that he could have used to go around the guy. Instead he clips him.

So none of the facts or lack thereof matter. Because they were both in the same place and because you assume Tony should have been lower, then Tony is guilty of manslaughter (meaning he actually had the criminal intent)?

Strawman much?

Huh?

No one that you are arguing with is using legal standards. Almost no one in this thread is arguing that there is any conclusion to be drawn meeting a legal requirement. But you are responding as though Zow or lod01 are arguing legal standards. It's a strawman. Make a moral or ethical argument with them, not a legal one, regardless of whether you and Zow are lawyers.

I suggest you read the thread because the person I quoted there did say he is guilty of manslaughter. I don't need strawmen.

 

[Da Guru]

There will be some disappointment here but the Ontario Sheriff just ruled that there was no criminal behavior and nothing to support criminal behavior in the accident that occurred.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Ontario Sheriff just ruled that there was no criminal behavior and nothing to suggest criminal behavior in the accident that occurred.

"Ontario Sheriff must be on NASCAR/ABC/ESPN's payroll" -- Ham

 

[SWC]

some times you wake up and you are just on your game you get a lot of work done and the day flies by and it is a good day but some times you wake up and everything is crap you get in road rage thing on the way in work takes forever you get yelled at by boss man you know what i mean well this thread is sort of the like the bad day for football guys you have people telling other people to stop posting people makeing murder accusations like it is not big deal and people going on and on about media conspiracy theories honest amigo this is just not a good one for the old ffa take that to the bank brohans

 

[Mr.Pack]

some times you wake up and you are just on your game you get a lot of work done and the day flies by and it is a good day but some times you wake up and everything is crap you get in road rage thing on the way in work takes forever you get yelled at by boss man you know what i mean well this thread is sort of the like the bad day for football guys you have people telling other people to stop posting people makeing murder accusations like it is not big deal and people going on and on about media conspiracy theories honest amigo this is just not a good one for the old ffa take that to the bank brohans

A freaking damn

/thread

 

[N Zone]

at the folks thinking he's not crazy enough to try and make a point to some young punk.

Stewart is a guy who's crazy enough to intentionally wreck other people's cars while going 150+ mph for years.

Bet none of you would do that either?

Hint: what happens on a race track isn't like what happens elsewhere. And Stewart is a nutcase.

Wrecking a car and running someone over are two entirely different things.

Exactly. Race cars have tons of safety features. Human beings have none.

He didn't mean to hit Ward.

But when you get close to the line often enough, #### happens.

Nice attitude. The guy is dead.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Tony Stewart has a history of hitting people with his car.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2721917/Tony-Stewarts-history-rage-charges-not-ruled-out.html

 

[Fennis]

There will be some disappointment here but the Ontario Sheriff just ruled that there was no criminal behavior and nothing to support criminal behavior in the accident that occurred.

link?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I don't get the "he was trying to give him a scare" thing. Putting a guy into a wall or bumping him is one thing. But trying to perform a near miss with a car versus a person is crazy. I just don't see that.

Really? I think it's tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt but it, frankly, seems to me to be the most plausible explanation here. Hot head but incredibly talented driver with young hotshot coming at him.

That's the most plausible explanation you come up with from that video? Seriosuly?

It's the one I instantly come up with when I see the video. There's plenty of track below Stewart that he could have used to go around the guy. Instead he clips him.

So none of the facts or lack thereof matter. Because they were both in the same place and because you assume Tony should have been lower, then Tony is guilty of manslaughter (meaning he actually had the criminal intent)?

Strawman much?

Huh?

No one that you are arguing with is using legal standards. Almost no one in this thread is arguing that there is any conclusion to be drawn meeting a legal requirement. But you are responding as though Zow or lod01 are arguing legal standards. It's a strawman. Make a moral or ethical argument with them, not a legal one, regardless of whether you and Zow are lawyers.

I suggest you read the thread because the person I quoted there did say he is guilty of manslaughter. I don't need strawmen.

I was mainly commenting on the quotes you responded to. I don't know if earlier in a 22 page thread those users stated anything else.

I think legally, as you do, there would be a very difficult case to even bring to trial.

I think morally/ethically, he could have been fuming a little on the caution lap about a kid trying to block him or whatever and then seen the kid and gotten angry and thought to scare him. It's not the most likely scenario. But you seem to dismiss the possibility.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I don't get the "he was trying to give him a scare" thing. Putting a guy into a wall or bumping him is one thing. But trying to perform a near miss with a car versus a person is crazy. I just don't see that.

Really? I think it's tough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt but it, frankly, seems to me to be the most plausible explanation here. Hot head but incredibly talented driver with young hotshot coming at him.

That's the most plausible explanation you come up with from that video? Seriosuly?

It's the one I instantly come up with when I see the video. There's plenty of track below Stewart that he could have used to go around the guy. Instead he clips him.

So none of the facts or lack thereof matter. Because they were both in the same place and because you assume Tony should have been lower, then Tony is guilty of manslaughter (meaning he actually had the criminal intent)?

Strawman much?

Huh?

No one that you are arguing with is using legal standards. Almost no one in this thread is arguing that there is any conclusion to be drawn meeting a legal requirement. But you are responding as though Zow or lod01 are arguing legal standards. It's a strawman. Make a moral or ethical argument with them, not a legal one, regardless of whether you and Zow are lawyers.

In the split second that Stewart realized that Ward was in front of him he clearly had plenty of time to run through his mind how he would teach this kid a lesson in respect. That is the most plausible scenario? Under any standard?

If he only knew that Ward was coming down the track for the last split second, then I agree with you. I'm not sure that's true, although I don't know that the truth is possible to find minus a confession.

 

[Todem]

Tragic accident.

Period. Utterly insane thinking he would intentionally run over this kid. Just sick. Tony Stewart may have a bad rep as being a DB on the track. But it does not make him a murderer.

Incredible some of things I am reading in here. Just mind boggling!!!