Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[GoBirds]

What happens if the NFL actually does have something legit, now that Kraft has doubled down on BB's press conference?

Either it's nothing or they have a legit beef but the Pats are going to deny as it would tarnish this season at least. Plus you have to think there is no actual footage right?

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Kraft is going all in. Line drawn, #### Goodell, #### the media.

I didn't see it, was It on the NFL network? Must admit I was a bit concerned not hearing much from Kraft so if he came out and defended BB & TB I say, bout time,,,

They are talking about it now on NFLN.

He ripped the NFL and the media, expects the NFL to apologize to the entire team and organization.

Thanks,

You saw my "The Patriots used 12 backup footballs for the second half of Sunday’s AFC championship game" above, right.

Yes, I was under the impression that was the initial report and it was later reported that they inflated the balls and used them for the second half.

Again, like 90% of this crap reported has been false.

Ok, I did not hear that,,,,good grief its no hard to know what is true and what isn't, but it is clear there is a mfer in the league intentionally leaking crap to make the pats look as bad as possible. Its total BS that goodell is allowing this crap.

 

[Thunderlips]

Like I've said before, makes no sense for the NFL to have let this go on as long as they've had unless there's meat on the bone. Doesn't help the image of the league and it takes away from the Super Bowl.

That very well could be true.

It could also be true that they want to go over everything with a fine toothe comb since there is so much butt hurt coming from pats haters and the NFL knows if they dismissed it quickly the butt hurt crowd is going to claim they swept it under the rug.

Disagree. It all comes down to A) the Pats did it willingly or B) the NFL was lax in testing their balls. If the NFL didn't shut this down with the "The Pats inflated just above the minimum and gameplay and weather brought it just below minimum (to me a plausible explanation and an easy way to get this story out of the news)", then theyve had something. A reliable source on the radio (HoF ray Diddinger on 94 WIP in Philly) thought the NFL's attitude in this mirrored Bountygate where they gathered info, went to Payton, Payton told them there was nothing to it and then they showed him the info and asked him if he wanted to change his story.

 

[ROCKET]

What happens if the NFL actually does have something legit, now that Kraft has doubled down on BB's press conference?

I think it's pretty obvious the entire Pats organization from top to bottom isn't afraid of being penalized and truly believes in their innocence. Not only that they are challenging the NFL to either prove it or admit you were wrong. This is all or nothing for both the NFL and the Pats. I'll take the Pats.

 

[MG345]

What happens if the NFL actually does have something legit, now that Kraft has doubled down on BB's press conference?

Either it's nothing or they have a legit beef but the Pats are going to deny as it would tarnish this season at least. Plus you have to think there is no actual footage right?

What happens if the NFL actually does have something legit, now that Kraft has doubled down on BB's press conference?

It would be worse than spygate, not in regards to the game, but in regards to the franchise.

It would make BB, Brady and Kraft all liars.

Absolutely no chance that's the case.

I would figure Kraft would have to be pretty pissed at BB. The impact on his legacy as an owner, BB and TB's super bowl wins, etc, makes this a pretty daring move unless Kraft knows for sure that nothing happened.

What happens if all the circumstantial evidence lines up, but they never get a real confession and no video because BB is too smart to let that happen after Spygate? Does the NFL back down or do the rest of the owners challenge Kraft?

Kraft just really upped the consequences on both sides of the fallout.

 

[Thunderlips]

What happens if the NFL actually does have something legit, now that Kraft has doubled down on BB's press conference?

It would be worse than spygate, not in regards to the game, but in regards to the franchise.

It would make BB, Brady and Kraft all liars.

Absolutely no chance that's the case.

The flip on that is that by knowingly going to the well with 7-2 off suit makes the NFL and Goodel look unbeliveably incompetent....to the point he'd have to go. Makes no sense for them to have nothing. Makes all the sense in the world for Brady and then BB to stick with their story and for Kraft to back his guys.

If I'm Brady and BB and they did it...at this point I hope Kraft is in on it...because if he isn't...then they've made their boss look like a fool.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Like I've said before, makes no sense for the NFL to have let this go on as long as they've had unless there's meat on the bone. Doesn't help the image of the league and it takes away from the Super Bowl.

That very well could be true.

It could also be true that they want to go over everything with a fine toothe comb since there is so much butt hurt coming from pats haters and the NFL knows if they dismissed it quickly the butt hurt crowd is going to claim they swept it under the rug.

Disagree. It all comes down to A) the Pats did it willingly or B) the NFL was lax in testing their balls. If the NFL didn't shut this down with the "The Pats inflated just above the minimum and gameplay and weather brought it just below minimum (to me a plausible explanation and an easy way to get this story out of the news)", then theyve had something. A reliable source on the radio (HoF ray Diddinger on 94 WIP in Philly) thought the NFL's attitude in this mirrored Bountygate where they gathered info, went to Payton, Payton told them there was nothing to it and then they showed him the info and asked him if he wanted to change his story.

Well that's a difference between us then, I considered the possibility your hypothesis could be right, you on the other hand apparently can't imagine that the NFL would be gun shy over the recently botched Ray Rice beating his GF investigation or the perpetual criticism from the butt hurt NE haters over the spygate investigation.

Sounds like you have already made up your mind so lets agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Thunderlips]

Like I've said before, makes no sense for the NFL to have let this go on as long as they've had unless there's meat on the bone. Doesn't help the image of the league and it takes away from the Super Bowl.

That very well could be true.

It could also be true that they want to go over everything with a fine toothe comb since there is so much butt hurt coming from pats haters and the NFL knows if they dismissed it quickly the butt hurt crowd is going to claim they swept it under the rug.

Disagree. It all comes down to A) the Pats did it willingly or B) the NFL was lax in testing their balls. If the NFL didn't shut this down with the "The Pats inflated just above the minimum and gameplay and weather brought it just below minimum (to me a plausible explanation and an easy way to get this story out of the news)", then theyve had something. A reliable source on the radio (HoF ray Diddinger on 94 WIP in Philly) thought the NFL's attitude in this mirrored Bountygate where they gathered info, went to Payton, Payton told them there was nothing to it and then they showed him the info and asked him if he wanted to change his story.

Well that's a difference between is then, I considered the possibility your hypothesis could be right, you on the other hand apparently can't imagine that the NFL would be gun shy over the recently botched Ray Rice beating his GF investigation or the PERPETUAL criticism from the butt hurt NE haters over the spygate investigation.

Sounds like you have already made up your mind so lets agree to disagree and move on.

I just don't think it's a big enough deal to bet the farm on. That's why I think they have something. I would think the NFL(Goodell) wouldn't risk damaging their last bits of legitimacy on something (lets be honest) so trivial or easily explained away (think about it...what makes the NFL look worse...admitting when the the story came out that the refs did a cursory job of examining the balls or going to the well on this story?)

T

 

[mbuehner]

Kraft is going all in. Line drawn, #### Goodell, #### the media.

I didn't see it, was It on the NFL network? Must admit I was a bit concerned not hearing much from Kraft so if he came out and defended BB & TB I say, bout time,,,

They are talking about it now on NFLN.He ripped the NFL and the media, expects the NFL to apologize to the entire team and organization.

Thanks,You saw my "The Patriots used 12 backup footballs for the second half of Sundays AFC championship game" above, right.

Yes, I was under the impression that was the initial report and it was later reported that they inflated the balls and used them for the second half.Again, like 90% of this crap reported has been false.

Ok, I did not hear that,,,,good grief its no hard to know what is true and what isn't, but it is clear there is a mfer in the league intentionally leaking crap to make the pats look as bad as possible. Its total BS that goodell is allowing this crap.

There have been directly contradictory leaks so we know a lot of it must be false.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

What happens if the NFL actually does have something legit, now that Kraft has doubled down on BB's press conference?

It would be worse than spygate, not in regards to the game, but in regards to the franchise.

It would make BB, Brady and Kraft all liars.

Absolutely no chance that's the case.

Absolutely, so many people think the Pats are pure evil and therefore are capable of anything.

I believe BB, TB and Kraft know they didn't do anything wrong and will eventually be exonerated, but for many of the butt hurt NE haters it aint going to matter, they hate the patriots and nothing, absolutely nothing will ever change that.

 

[General Tso]

What happens if the NFL actually does have something legit, now that Kraft has doubled down on BB's press conference?

This has turned into a steel cage death match. Someone's going down, hard. If the Pats were innocent, the NFL is going to have a huge black eye and it could cost a few people their jobs, Goodell included. If the Pats tamper with the balls, then legacies of Brady and Belichik are tarnished severely, to the point where I could even foresee them not being inducted into the Hall of Fame. The stakes couldn't get much higher.

 

[kyoun1e]

Kraft is going all in. Line drawn, #### Goodell, #### the media.

I didn't see it, was It on the NFL network? Must admit I was a bit concerned not hearing much from Kraft so if he came out and defended BB & TB I say, bout time,,,

They are talking about it now on NFLN.

He ripped the NFL and the media, expects the NFL to apologize to the entire team and organization.

This officially ends very poorly for either camp. No in between.

If Bill is lying, he's gone. There's no way Kraft could back him after this.

And if nothing is found, Goodell could be out of a job. This has been handled poorly. Despite the fact that most owners hate NE, I could see sentiment swinging against Goodell after this horrible year.

Somebody loses.

Big.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I have a rack on this thread hitting 100 pages before kickoff.

So all of you physicists, conspiracy theorists, Trolls, Pat haters and Pat lovers, you're almost there. Bring it on home and....

Win one for the Limper

 

[GoBirds]

Like I've said before, makes no sense for the NFL to have let this go on as long as they've had unless there's meat on the bone. Doesn't help the image of the league and it takes away from the Super Bowl.

That very well could be true.It could also be true that they want to go over everything with a fine toothe comb since there is so much butt hurt coming from pats haters and the NFL knows if they dismissed it quickly the butt hurt crowd is going to claim they swept it under the rug.

Disagree. It all comes down to A) the Pats did it willingly or B) the NFL was lax in testing their balls. If the NFL didn't shut this down with the "The Pats inflated just above the minimum and gameplay and weather brought it just below minimum (to me a plausible explanation and an easy way to get this story out of the news)", then theyve had something. A reliable source on the radio (HoF ray Diddinger on 94 WIP in Philly) thought the NFL's attitude in this mirrored Bountygate where they gathered info, went to Payton, Payton told them there was nothing to it and then they showed him the info and asked him if he wanted to change his story.

Well that's a difference between is then, I considered the possibility your hypothesis could be right, you on the other hand apparently can't imagine that the NFL would be gun shy over the recently botched Ray Rice beating his GF investigation or the PERPETUAL criticism from the butt hurt NE haters over the spygate investigation.Sounds like you have already made up your mind so lets agree to disagree and move on.

I just don't think it's a big enough deal to bet the farm on. That's why I think they have something. I would think the NFL(Goodell) wouldn't risk damaging their last bits of legitimacy on something (lets be honest) so trivial or easily explained away (think about it...what makes the NFL look worse...admitting when the the story came out that the refs did a cursory job of examining the balls or going to the well on this story?)

T

True....why push it on a rule most of us didn't know existed. I can also see if you are the officials not going completely by the book and being lax because seriously, who really thought this was a rule someone might try to break before this week?

 

[MG345]

Kraft is going all in. Line drawn, #### Goodell, #### the media.

I didn't see it, was It on the NFL network? Must admit I was a bit concerned not hearing much from Kraft so if he came out and defended BB & TB I say, bout time,,,

They are talking about it now on NFLN.

He ripped the NFL and the media, expects the NFL to apologize to the entire team and organization.

This officially ends very poorly for either camp. No in between.

If Bill is lying, he's gone. There's no way Kraft could back him after this.

And if nothing is found, Goodell could be out of a job. This has been handled poorly. Despite the fact that most owners hate NE, I could see sentiment swinging against Goodell after this horrible year.

Somebody loses.

Big.

So how many people still believe this is "over"? This is already a bigger story than the Super Bowl, and really either outcome in the game is going to be overshadowed by this investigation -- especially if the Pats win.

 

[James Daulton]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

What happens if the NFL actually does have something legit, now that Kraft has doubled down on BB's press conference?

It would be worse than spygate, not in regards to the game, but in regards to the franchise.

It would make BB, Brady and Kraft all liars.

Absolutely no chance that's the case.

 

[GoBirds]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

 

[JIslander]

I have a rack on this thread hitting 100 pages before kickoff.

So all of you physicists, conspiracy theorists, Trolls, Pat haters and Pat lovers, you're almost there. Bring it on home and....

Win one for the Limper

take the over --teaser +50

 

[HellToupee]

Krafty Bob is growing on me

 

[Old Smiley]

Kraft Transcript:

“Given the events of the last week, I want to take a minute to address the air pressure matter before we kickoff this week’s media availability. I have spoken with Coach Belichick. I have spoken with Tom Brady. I’ve taken the time to understand to the best of my abilities what goes on in the preparation of game day footballs. I want to make it clear, that I believe unconditionally that the New England Patriots have done nothing inappropriate in this process in violation of NFL rules.

“Tom, Bill and I have been together for 15 years. They are my guys. They are part of my family and Bill, Tom and I have had many difficult discussions over the years and I have never known them to lie to me. That is why I am confident in saying what I just said. It bothers me greatly that their reputations and integrity, and by association, that of our team has been called into question this past week.

“As I said on Friday in my prepared statement, we welcome the league’s investigation and the involvement of Attorney [Ted] Wells. I am confident this investigation will uncover whatever the facts were that took place last Sunday and the science of how game balls react to changes in the environment. This would be in direct contrast to the public discourse which has been driven by media leaks, as opposed to actual data and facts. Because of this, many jump to conclusions and made strong accusations against our coach, quarterback and staff, questioning the integrity of all involved.

“If the Wells investigation is not able to definitively determine that our organization tampered with the air pressure in the footballs, I would expect and hope that the league would apologize to our entire team, and in particular Coach Belichick and Tom Brady for what they’ve had to endure this past week.

“I’m disappointed in the way this entire matter has been handled, and reported upon. We expect hard facts, as opposed to circumstantial leaked evidence to draw the conclusion of this investigation. In closing, I would like to say to all the fans of the National Football League, and especially the amazing fans of the New England Patriots, that I and our entire organization believe strongly in the integrity of the game, and that the rules of fair play, are properly, equitably and fairly enforced. Thank you.”

Btw thanks generaljerk

 

[kyoun1e]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

 

[General Tso]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

 

[amnesiac]

I have a rack on this thread hitting 100 pages before kickoff.

So all of you physicists, conspiracy theorists, Trolls, Pat haters and Pat lovers, you're almost there. Bring it on home and....

Win one for the Limper

that's cute.

over/under on this thread by kickoff: 150 pages

 

[Bucky86]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

This.Even if that's the party line, is Kraft then going to apologize to the NFL? I mean it was still your own employee.

 

[Thunderlips]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

Disagree. I'm sure, if found guilty of it, the rallying cry of their fans turns to "they only did it once".....but why would/should I believe that?

 

[ratbast]

You think the haters wouldn't have had their butts in a sling with every statement the NFL made? This was a perfect storm of opportunists. Everyone chose the way they would handle it. Even I concluded that it was bad for my beloved Pats, but now I believe that we know what we know and that's it.

Kraft has some solid influence in this league and the Commish has left him out to dry on this. But I also think the NFL had no choice, they weren't prepared for this either and chose to basically stay out of it.

 

[GoBirds]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Rodgers reference is ridiculous, he said he likes it fully inflated but he obviously means within the approved range for games.

 

[Run It Up]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Rodgers reference is ridiculous, he said he likes it fully inflated but he obviously means within the approved range for games.

He explicitly stated that he tries to overinflate them to see if they get through inspection, cause the worst thing that happens is they just lower the pressure.

Which we know is true, unless your the Pats.

 

[James Daulton]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Complaints about the Pats balls from earlier in the season, the fact that the Colts balls were all good, Brady saying he couldn't tell the difference in ball inflation. To name a few.

 

[greenroom]

Kraft Transcript:

“Given the events of the last week, I want to take a minute to address the air pressure matter before we kickoff this week’s media availability. I have spoken with Coach Belichick. I have spoken with Tom Brady. I’ve taken the time to understand to the best of my abilities what goes on in the preparation of game day footballs. I want to make it clear, that I believe unconditionally that the New England Patriots have done nothing inappropriate in this process in violation of NFL rules.

“Tom, Bill and I have been together for 15 years. They are my guys. They are part of my family and Bill, Tom and I have had many difficult discussions over the years and I have never known them to lie to me. That is why I am confident in saying what I just said. It bothers me greatly that their reputations and integrity, and by association, that of our team has been called into question this past week.

“As I said on Friday in my prepared statement, we welcome the league’s investigation and the involvement of Attorney [Ted] Wells. I am confident this investigation will uncover whatever the facts were that took place last Sunday and the science of how game balls react to changes in the environment. This would be in direct contrast to the public discourse which has been driven by media leaks, as opposed to actual data and facts. Because of this, many jump to conclusions and made strong accusations against our coach, quarterback and staff, questioning the integrity of all involved.

“If the Wells investigation is not able to definitively determine that our organization tampered with the air pressure in the footballs, I would expect and hope that the league would apologize to our entire team, and in particular Coach Belichick and Tom Brady for what they’ve had to endure this past week.

“I’m disappointed in the way this entire matter has been handled, and reported upon. We expect hard facts, as opposed to circumstantial leaked evidence to draw the conclusion of this investigation. In closing, I would like to say to all the fans of the National Football League, and especially the amazing fans of the New England Patriots, that I and our entire organization believe strongly in the integrity of the game, and that the rules of fair play, are properly, equitably and fairly enforced. Thank you.”

Btw thanks generaljerk

Bold is the key. Even Kraft, knows there is nothing that is definitively that can prove they did, just like there is nothing definitively to say they did not mess with the footballs. But if they can prove the chain of the Footballs was not followed by having the ball boy get thefootballballs, and take them to a room, that was not approved. Then what?

 

[JuniorNB]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

unfortunately, this isn't the first time they've been caught cheating (if that's how this turns out). Between this and Spygate, all the accomplishments of the Brady /Belichick era will have huge asterics. When a guy is caught cheating on his wide, multiple times, he doesn't get to remind his wife if all the nights he didn't cheat.

 

[Bucky86]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Complaints about the Pats balls from earlier in the season, the fact that the Colts balls were all good, Brady saying he couldn't tell the difference in ball inflation. To name a few.

Throw all that out. What do we REALLY know?

 

[ROCKET]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

I will be beyond shocked if this ball boy scenario or any other scenario has any merit. The Pats have calculated every once of evidence that exists or could exist and how it could be used against them. They know everything that could be used as evidence, they have full disclosure by doing their own internal investigation into what they did and didn't do. I don't see them putting their entire legacy on the line without being 100% confident in their acquittal.

 

[ROCKET]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

Disagree. I'm sure, if found guilty of it, the rallying cry of their fans turns to "they only did it once".....but why would/should I believe that?

BS, quite the opposite. As a fan I would be beyond pi$$ed for them not only lying to the league but to me.

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

quick question: were the Patriots balls re-inflated at halftime and put back into play, or were they kept inside during the 2nd half?

Pats balls were reportedly reinflated at halftime and put back in play.

thank you. That kind of deflates the sting operation, no? Nothing like destroying the only hard evidence you have.Makes me think there was no pre-planned sting.

Idk, no one knows what prompted the officials to check the balls at all. All of the reports about teams warning the NFL/other teams have either been denied or ignored.Like 90% of the stuff that has been reported on has been wrong.

Nobody wants to be known as the snitch here. But someone did snitch, whether it was before the game or during the game. The NFL wouldn't have launched an investigation unless someone initiated it through a complaint.I think it came from the Colts management.

I think the snitch was Viniatieri

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

Pats fans do see that there is some "evidence" that might indicate wrong doing and most of us acknowledge that and are concerned about it. As for the impartial people, they are few and far between, you see deebags like Chris Carter on ESPN screaming things that do not appear to be true as if they r fact. You have people who work for this site claiming they don't have a dog in the fight and yet they carelessly exaggerate whats been alleged and make stuff up to make TB and the pats look as bad as they can, why? Because there doesn't seem to be any in-between.

So it does seem like there are 2 camps, those who are willing to give NE and TB in particular the benefit of the doubt that he is not lying (based on what we know about him) and those who aren't even willing to think he might be telling the truth. Those who won't even consider he is telling the truth can't be basing it on his character or past behavior and imo it is based primarily on butt hurt and jealousy of TBs & NEs success.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I have a rack on this thread hitting 100 pages before kickoff.

So all of you physicists, conspiracy theorists, Trolls, Pat haters and Pat lovers, you're almost there. Bring it on home and....Win one for the Limper

that's cute.

over/under on this thread by kickoff: 150 pages

How much do you have on the line?

 

[ROCKET]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

unfortunately, this isn't the first time they've been caught cheating (if that's how this turns out). Between this and Spygate, all the accomplishments of the Brady /Belichick era will have huge asterics. When a guy is caught cheating on his wide, multiple times, he doesn't get to remind his wife if all the nights he didn't cheat.

Let me guess, Steelers fan? No bias there.

 

[kyoun1e]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I don't fault anyone for being skeptical based on the current information.

I do find the many who think all of this type of crap explains ALL of their accomplishments as completely ignorant.

unfortunately, this isn't the first time they've been caught cheating (if that's how this turns out). Between this and Spygate, all the accomplishments of the Brady /Belichick era will have huge asterics. When a guy is caught cheating on his wide, multiple times, he doesn't get to remind his wife if all the nights he didn't cheat.

Exhibit A right there.

 

[GoBirds]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

I will be beyond shocked if this ball boy scenario or any other scenario has any merit. The Pats have calculated every once of evidence that exists or could exist and how it could be used against them. They know everything that could be used as evidence, they have full disclosure by doing their own internal investigation into what they did and didn't do. I don't see them putting their entire legacy on the line without being 100% confident in their acquittal.

Sure...but given the hypothetical if a ballboy takes the fall you can't separate Brady right?

 

[amnesiac]

I have a rack on this thread hitting 100 pages before kickoff.

So all of you physicists, conspiracy theorists, Trolls, Pat haters and Pat lovers, you're almost there. Bring it on home and....Win one for the Limper

that's cute.

over/under on this thread by kickoff: 150 pages

How much do you have on the line?

admittedly, nothing. when did you place your bet?

don't recall seeing it, but i've had to skim a lot of this thread.

 

[T J]

Like I've said before, makes no sense for the NFL to have let this go on as long as they've had unless there's meat on the bone. Doesn't help the image of the league and it takes away from the Super Bowl.

That part of it confuses me as well. But then again. The Pats wouldn't be making such emphatic statements like this unless they were certain they did nothing wrong. That's what makes this story so intriguing.

No. They're being so emphatic because they know no one can actually prove it. NOT because they're so certain they did nothing wrong. They're trying to shout this down because they know if they get busted on this one, they're gonna be considered cheats for all time, and especially so because of spygate before. They may as well try to shout it down. Doesn't hurt them, but it most definitely does not convince me in the least.

 

[General Tso]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Rodgers reference is ridiculous, he said he likes it fully inflated but he obviously means within the approved range for games.

He explicitly stated that he tries to overinflate them to see if they get through inspection, cause the worst thing that happens is they just lower the pressure.

Which we know is true, unless your the Pats.

For the ignorant, lazy ones who spend too much time trolling and not enough time learning about the subject...

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

 

[GoBirds]

Like I've said before, makes no sense for the NFL to have let this go on as long as they've had unless there's meat on the bone. Doesn't help the image of the league and it takes away from the Super Bowl.

That part of it confuses me as well. But then again. The Pats wouldn't be making such emphatic statements like this unless they were certain they did nothing wrong. That's what makes this story so intriguing.

No. They're being so emphatic because they know no one can actually prove it. NOT because they're so certain they did nothing wrong. They're trying to shout this down because they know if they get busted on this one, they're gonna be considered cheats for all time, and especially so because of spygate before. They may as well try to shout it down. Doesn't hurt them, but it most definitely does not convince me in the least.

I'd say it's 85% that this is what's going on.

 

[Morton Muffley]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I think there are several of us who are in a middle camp. For the record, I am a pats fan who hated the Thursday press conferences ...especially Brady's as he did not seem believable to me. Maybe just rattled with nerves and possibly both brady and BB initially thought the other might have had something to do with it.

BB' Saturday press conference changed my mind because of both the science (backed by MIT I'd bet) and the emphatic and totally unnecessary denials. meanwhile as someone else noted 90% of the unnamed source info is being discredited/contradicted by other unnamed source info. And the amount of leaks coming from NFL HQ has me thinking that someone is trying to save face.

Then the ball boy story comes out and now I think it's just a pissing match...but wait no, now Kraft brings gasoline and a matching to the pissing contest...just seems like the patriots have gone off script several times (first Thursday, then Saturday, now today) and every time they call the NFL's bluff it gets returned with another leak that makes them look bad...except with every leak the patriots seem to ratchet up their ire. So you've got one side standing in the street shouting "if you want to fight, come on out and fight" while the other side is "calling names from behind the building".

Anywhere that's where I am at today...tomorrow, who knows.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I have a rack on this thread hitting 100 pages before kickoff.

So all of you physicists, conspiracy theorists, Trolls, Pat haters and Pat lovers, you're almost there. Bring it on home and....Win one for the Limper

that's cute.

over/under on this thread by kickoff: 150 pages

How much do you have on the line?

admittedly, nothing. when did you place your bet?

don't recall seeing it, but i've had to skim a lot of this thread.

That's cute

Bet was placed last Sunday, not done in this thread though.

My posts, or any responses to my posts, don't count towards the total posts needed.

 

[GoBirds]

Why is it that if you think something's seriously fishy, and that someone in the Pats organization is lying, you're a Pats hater? Why can't the Pats fans just see that there's a decent amount of evidence that a completely impartial person might think there was some shenanigans?

It's either you're with the Pats or you're a hater. No in between it seems.

I thought there was a decent amount of evidence when the Mort story came out last Monday saying the balls were all under inflated by at least 2 psi. Yeah, that sounded fishy. But then the NFL got all weasly with their wording about when the balls were measured. In my mind, that's key. It suggests the Pats could have just submitted under inflated balls to the refs, who then examined them, didn't gauge test them, and let them through. In my opinion this is then on the refs, not the Pats. And if you nail the Pats for this, you have to nail Aaron Rodgers as well, for he admitted doing the exact same thing.The story that came out that the balls were only under inflated by 1 psi is pretty damning to the NFL's case. It's almost universally accepted that the temperature drop alone could explain this.

I'd be curious to hear what evidence you are referring to that would lead a reasonable person to expect that there were shenanigans.

Rodgers reference is ridiculous, he said he likes it fully inflated but he obviously means within the approved range for games.

He explicitly stated that he tries to overinflate them to see if they get through inspection, cause the worst thing that happens is they just lower the pressure.

Which we know is true, unless your the Pats.

For the ignorant, lazy ones who spend too much time trolling and not enough time learning about the subject...

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

Which game did he use an illegal ball in?

Keep digging for excuses.

 

[ROCKET]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

I will be beyond shocked if this ball boy scenario or any other scenario has any merit. The Pats have calculated every once of evidence that exists or could exist and how it could be used against them. They know everything that could be used as evidence, they have full disclosure by doing their own internal investigation into what they did and didn't do. I don't see them putting their entire legacy on the line without being 100% confident in their acquittal.

Sure...but given the hypothetical if a ballboy takes the fall you can't separate Brady right?

I don't see how there is any scenario where a ballboy or other employee can take the wrap alone. Someone within the organization would go down too.

 

[Morton Muffley]

So if ball boy turns into the fall guy for this even Pats fans have to admit there is no way he acted independently of Brady. There is just no scenario a ballboy alters the ball without his approval right?

Absolutely, no way a ball boy did this on his own