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Official Cowboys Offseason Thread. 4th pick overall (1 Viewer)

I would like to see Ramsey or Jack go #4, but in all likelihood we go DE or trade down and go DE. No need for any of us to get worked up because somebody wants a LB, RB or DB at #4.

 
If we are set on QB, then I'd rather traded down, grab another 2nd or more, and land Lynch. Although that would be second to grabbing Ramsey or Jack at 1.4.

 
If we are not going QB I almost wish we would trade down and get more picks. I'm starting to think we can still get a good player later in the 1st and add an extra player. Cooling on Jack.

 
Moving up to draft Shante Carver in the mid 90's will forever make me nervous with this crew on draft day. But hopefully they get it right.

And please, no baseball pitchers for QB. Ever.

 
Bankerguy said:
I am preparing for disappointment. Have a bad feeling...
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Who/what would disappoint?

For me, while I like certain guys more than others, I don't know if any of the main guys in the first would be a disappointment, per se.

(Oh, I see...Wentz is in the "disappointment" category.  I can see that.)

 
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cobalt_27 said:
Who/what would disappoint?

For me, while I like certain guys more than others, I don't know if any of the main guys in the first would be a disappointment, per se.

(Oh, I see...Wentz is in the "disappointment" category.  I can see that.)
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No...I just get the feeling its gonna be Bosa.

 
cobalt_27 said:
If no Bosa, no Ramsey, no Tunsil, according to your rule book, who's the CB, DL, OL guy we must take with our first pick?

And, hey, if we don't go DL, at least your boy Greg Hardy's still available.
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I have no idea why you continue to quote me if you're gonna be an obnoxious cockstain. I never said Greg Hardy was my boy. I never said I liked him. I never even defended him. I simply stated I wasn't in the room and I have no idea what happened. IMO, the time to be outraged was prior to the season when he was signed and not when the media dictated it was time to be outraged, simply because the Cowboys were about to play the Giants on Monday night. You called me a misogynist because I dared questioned a woman's story. The same woman who couldn't be found after she got a boatload of cash.

So if you want to talk football and squash this nonsense then fine, but if you're gonna continue then Ill simply ignore you from here on out. I'm sure the rest of our fellow Cowboys fans are sick of seeing you and I rehash the same story as much as I am.

Ill be honest, I would rather hear your and others opinions on who we should take because I'm a pretty casual observer of college football. The linebacker you are enamored with actually sounds like a guy worth straying from "my rule" if he is what you think he is and I agree with your reasoning and concerns about Lee's durability and the unreliability, week to week of McClain.

 
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I think the pick will be Bosa.  Meh.  

I hope Ramsey is available (but doubt it).  

I'd personally like to see a trade down or take Jack at 4.  

After a brief fling with Wentz, I've come back to preferring Goff, but don't see that happening unless it's a trade down a few slots.  

Lynch would be fine with me if he makes it to the 2nd.  

Same with Eli Apple, which actually would fit their OSU love/visits this year.

Speaking of OSU, Cardale would be a tolerable QB option, if we traded down or picked up a mid-2nd.

 
cobalt_27 said:
I think the pick will be Bosa.  Meh.  

I hope Ramsey is available (but doubt it).  

I'd personally like to see a trade down or take Jack at 4.  

After a brief fling with Wentz, I've come back to preferring Goff, but don't see that happening unless it's a trade down a few slots.  

Lynch would be fine with me if he makes it to the 2nd.  

Same with Eli Apple, which actually would fit their OSU love/visits this year.

Speaking of OSU, Cardale would be a tolerable QB option, if we traded down or picked up a mid-2nd.
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What are your (and everyone else) thoughts on Henry in the 2nd? I would love to send him out in the fourth quarter behind our line.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
What are your (and everyone else) thoughts on Henry in the 2nd? I would love to send him out in the fourth quarter behind our line.
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I'm personally not enamored with him at all.  I suppose I should be, but...the lack of any dimensional quality and my general bias against big backs coming out of college (especially big programs with elite surrounding cast) gives me pause.  After Zeke, I really don't like any options until you get to Rd 4.  If Collins--or Ervin a round or two later--are available, I'd prefer to take a flier with one of those guys.

 
cobalt_27 said:
I think the pick will be Bosa.  Meh.  

I hope Ramsey is available (but doubt it).  

I'd personally like to see a trade down or take Jack at 4.  

After a brief fling with Wentz, I've come back to preferring Goff, but don't see that happening unless it's a trade down a few slots.  

Lynch would be fine with me if he makes it to the 2nd.  

Same with Eli Apple, which actually would fit their OSU love/visits this year.

Speaking of OSU, Cardale would be a tolerable QB option, if we traded down or picked up a mid-2nd.
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I agree with much of this.  If I was betting, I would bet Bosa.  Premium spot. Fills a need etc etc. I personally think he is not going to improve much and is already hit his ceiling.

Ramsey is the best player in the draft. I pray it goes Tunsil, Wentz, some other team moves up to grab Bosa/Goff.  Leaving us Ramsey.

I do not mind a trade down if we get a 2nd.

I like both, but prefer Wentz for his intangibles and skill sets.

Lynch will come nowhere near the second round...imo. I think he is gone by 15th at the latest.

I need to watch more Apple highlites and reports.

Cardale-why are you cool with this? 

Me:

I still love Zeke, I truly think he would be an absolute monster. It just does not make any sense at 4 and I secretly fear we are going to be tormented for 10 years when he goes to the Eagles. We also just signed Morris, and we all know it's not a premium position. We will also end up paying him a lot of money for a rookie.

I watch Jack tape and see him get destroyed in the run game by Centers and Guards in the second level.  He has problems shedding blockers and gets caught up in the wash a lot.  Yes, the physical traits are outstanding and he can run like a deer, which translates well to today's game. However, I remain unsold that he makes sense for us.  He also has not been in for a visit.

At the end of day...unless Wentz or Ramsey fall.....I can't see anyone other then Bosa or Goff.  I will punch something if we trade up and I will be confused as to who the target is if we want to move down. (Zeke, Jack Hargreaves, Lawson as possibilities)?

 
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Bankerguy said:
Cardale-why are you cool with this? 
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Some inter-related reasons.  Matt Waldman really turned me back on to him after reading his scouting profile (QB2 behind Goff).  Like everyone, I was pretty impressed with him a couple years ago.  He's a wild card for sure, but I think only 4 QBs are worth squadoosh in this draft, and I don't like the price of any of them, except Cardale.  

 
Bankerguy said:
I watch Jack tape and see him get destroyed in the run game by Centers and Guards in the second level.  He has problems shedding blockers and gets caught up in the wash a lot.  Yes, the physical traits are outstanding and he can run like a deer, which translates well to today's game. However, I remain unsold that he makes sense for us.  He also has not been in for a visit.

At the end of day...unless Wentz or Ramsey fall.....I can't see anyone other then Bosa or Goff.  I will punch something if we trade up and I will be confused as to who the target is if we want to move down. (Zeke, Jack Hargreaves, Lawson as possibilities)?
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Jack needs to add bulk, which I expect he would do.  While some have compared him to Ray Lewis, I think it's a bit unfair.  But, if you read old notes on Lewis (early internet days), the knock on him was he was too small, "big blockers give him problems," "weakside type," "not strong at plays run right at him."  

Well.  That all seems sort of silly now in retrospect.

What I see in Jack is an exceptional athlete who clearly has the mindset, tenacity, and work ethic to continue honing his craft and improving.  He has the *it* factor few have in this draft.  He can build on a 245 frame and learn techniques to shed those hogs and be a more effective straight-up run stuffer.  But, what you can't teach is his incredible speed and instincts.  It's for that reason, I just love the kid, and I think he'll make Jacksonville a great defense...and soon.  I agree, it's a long shot he'll end up a Cowboy.  I just want to put it out there that I'm totally sold and see him as a good fit to many of the puzzle pieces we need on defense.

Assuming TEN takes Tunsil and we can't trade down...do you prefer a trade UP for Ramsey into the 2 spot or take Bosa at 4?  Or Goff?

 
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To be fair, you are right about Ray Lewis though. There were a couple years  after his first Super Bowl where he struggled when his interior lineman left him, pre Ngada.  It will always be a team game and you need a couple of big boys in the middle to keep the lanes clear.

 
This new board does some weird stuff sometimes.

Anyway...Jack is an athletic, speed LB. So, unless you're advocating him replacing Lee on the outside, or a switch to the 3-4, he doesn't fit our scheme, and why we won't take him. 

I also don't get all the Bosa non-love. He seems to be the consensus, highest-rated defensive player in the draft and that's pretty exciting to me. I've read some of the contrarian garbage about his work ethic, etc, but most of that just seems to me like pre-draft click-bait. I agree that Ramsey would also be an excellent pick at #4. But, honestly, I can't wait. I'll take Ramsey, Wentz or Bosa at #4 and love it.

 
I love Jack or Wentz, just not trading up.

And the guy I REALLY don't want is Bosa. He has bust written on him, imo.

 
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jkruppe said:
This new board does some weird stuff sometimes.

Anyway...Jack is an athletic, speed LB. So, unless you're advocating him replacing Lee on the outside, or a switch to the 3-4, he doesn't fit our scheme, and why we won't take him. 

I also don't get all the Bosa non-love. He seems to be the consensus, highest-rated defensive player in the draft and that's pretty exciting to me. I've read some of the contrarian garbage about his work ethic, etc, but most of that just seems to me like pre-draft click-bait. I agree that Ramsey would also be an excellent pick at #4. But, honestly, I can't wait. I'll take Ramsey, Wentz or Bosa at #4 and love it.
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Look, I don't love Jack for us at 4 but I have to disagree on you saying Jack is not a scheme fit. He would be amazing at either Will or Mike spots. Remember in the Tampa 2 the Mike has deep middle coverage on TEs. Whether its a "need" is more debatable.

Bosa. He is extremely technical already. He has a variety of moves and is great with his hands...he has been well coached. What I do not see, is an athletic guy going to get better ala a D Ware. Bosa is Bosa...his ceiling is Jared Allen. What part if his game do you see improving? Guys don't get faster or more explosive.  I see a steady eddy type, a consistent guy who will put up 7 to 10 sacks and play the run well. Which is nice, but given the opportunity to address the QB spot or possibly take Ramsey. This is where the Bosa love falls off for me.

If we could add a pick and get him at 7...maybe. I just cannot get pumped about feeling like our team gets any better taking him at 4 now or in the future.

 
cobalt_27 said:
Some inter-related reasons.  Matt Waldman really turned me back on to him after reading his scouting profile (QB2 behind Goff).  Like everyone, I was pretty impressed with him a couple years ago.  He's a wild card for sure, but I think only 4 QBs are worth squadoosh in this draft, and I don't like the price of any of them, except Cardale.  
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I think Quincy Carter was more polished coming out of College...and that is where I end my argument.

 
Bankerguy said:
I think Quincy Carter was more polished coming out of College...and that is where I end my argument.
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I don't necessarily disagree.  I'm just not a huge fan of any of these guys.  If the mood is we HAVE to invest something on QB, I'd rather put a bet down on Lynch or Cardale in the 2nd, as opposed to any of the guys in the first...or later in the 4th, 5th, etc.  Sounds like you think Lynch is long gone by Rd. 2.  So what's that leave us?  Hack?  Cook?  Prescott?  A whole lot of blech.

 
cobalt_27 said:
I don't necessarily disagree.  I'm just not a huge fan of any of these guys.  If the mood is we HAVE to invest something on QB, I'd rather put a bet down on Lynch or Cardale in the 2nd, as opposed to any of the guys in the first...or later in the 4th, 5th, etc.  Sounds like you think Lynch is long gone by Rd. 2.  So what's that leave us?  Hack?  Cook?  Prescott?  A whole lot of blech.
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Ya...his stock is rising. Gone by 15 imo. Yes, none of those outside of Cook hold interest to me including Jones.

 
matuski said:
They should sign Megatron.
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Can you stop trolling our thread? Horrifically poor effort at that. There are plenty of non-serious threads for you to be you in. 

You have an awful rep on this board but unlike most, I don't have a negative opinion of you. Just stop, please and thank you. 

 
I'd love to see a trade down for Zeke.  I normally would say RB should not be a huge priority but the platoon we had in place last year was so pedestrian, even the best O-Line in football couldn't make them look good.  A ton of yards left on the field last year.  I also think Zeke is the best RB prospect (outside of Gurley) in the pas 5-7 years.

Aside from Ramsey, the top end of this draft is weak.  This is exactly the type of draft you trade down in.  The problem is that if we try to trade down and take Zeke, we can't go lower than the Eagles at #8.  If SF thinks we are willing to move down to #15 (Rams), they might offer up the #7 and a pick.  It wouldn't be a 2nd but we may be able to get a 3rd or 4th out of them.

Or we just slide down to #15 and pick up a 2nd rounder and see how things play out.

 
mikmak8902 said:
I'd love to see a trade down for Zeke.  I normally would say RB should not be a huge priority but the platoon we had in place last year was so pedestrian, even the best O-Line in football couldn't make them look good.  A ton of yards left on the field last year.  I also think Zeke is the best RB prospect (outside of Gurley) in the pas 5-7 years.

Aside from Ramsey, the top end of this draft is weak.  This is exactly the type of draft you trade down in.  The problem is that if we try to trade down and take Zeke, we can't go lower than the Eagles at #8.  If SF thinks we are willing to move down to #15 (Rams), they might offer up the #7 and a pick.  It wouldn't be a 2nd but we may be able to get a 3rd or 4th out of them.

Or we just slide down to #15 and pick up a 2nd rounder and see how things play out.
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Agreed. I am by no means a Dallas fan, but I will say this. A complete RB will take the pressure off Romo. Zeke can run incredibly well in-between the tackles (helpful with the best O-line in the league), can catch out of the backfield and can pass block as well. Honestly, he is capable of being a league rushing leader behind that line. We all saw what that O-line did for Murray. 

None of the quarterbacks in this draft are worthy of a 1st round pick, in my opinion. 

 
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mikmak8902 said:
I'd love to see a trade down for Zeke.  I normally would say RB should not be a huge priority but the platoon we had in place last year was so pedestrian, even the best O-Line in football couldn't make them look good.  A ton of yards left on the field last year.  I also think Zeke is the best RB prospect (outside of Gurley) in the pas 5-7 years.

Aside from Ramsey, the top end of this draft is weak.  This is exactly the type of draft you trade down in.  The problem is that if we try to trade down and take Zeke, we can't go lower than the Eagles at #8.  If SF thinks we are willing to move down to #15 (Rams), they might offer up the #7 and a pick.  It wouldn't be a 2nd but we may be able to get a 3rd or 4th out of them.

Or we just slide down to #15 and pick up a 2nd rounder and see how things play out.
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McFadden did a lot better than people are giving him credit for- Dallas had a 4.6 ypc in both 2014 and 2015.  Obviously they had far more attempts in 2014, but last year the line didn't play as well and they had awful QB play for most of the season.  I think Elliott would certainly be an upgrade there, but the running game wasn't the problem last season.

That being said, I don't think they should get cute and try and trade down a couple of spots if Elliott is their guy.  If they trade down to #7 that leaves the door open for Philly to trade up to #5 or 6, and then they're screwed.  If they have a few guys on the board who they rank equally that's a good move, but not if there's only 1.  Elliott's either going to be worth it or not, there isn't a huge difference between taking him at #4 vs #7.

 
Bankerguy said:
I agree with much of this.  If I was betting, I would bet Bosa.  Premium spot. Fills a need etc etc. I personally think he is not going to improve much and is already hit his ceiling.

Ramsey is the best player in the draft. I pray it goes Tunsil, Wentz, some other team moves up to grab Bosa/Goff.  Leaving us Ramsey.

I do not mind a trade down if we get a 2nd.

I like both, but prefer Wentz for his intangibles and skill sets.

Lynch will come nowhere near the second round...imo. I think he is gone by 15th at the latest.

I need to watch more Apple highlites and reports.

Cardale-why are you cool with this? 

Me:

I still love Zeke, I truly think he would be an absolute monster. It just does not make any sense at 4 and I secretly fear we are going to be tormented for 10 years when he goes to the Eagles. We also just signed Morris, and we all know it's not a premium position. We will also end up paying him a lot of money for a rookie.

I watch Jack tape and see him get destroyed in the run game by Centers and Guards in the second level.  He has problems shedding blockers and gets caught up in the wash a lot.  Yes, the physical traits are outstanding and he can run like a deer, which translates well to today's game. However, I remain unsold that he makes sense for us.  He also has not been in for a visit.

At the end of day...unless Wentz or Ramsey fall.....I can't see anyone other then Bosa or Goff.  I will punch something if we trade up and I will be confused as to who the target is if we want to move down. (Zeke, Jack Hargreaves, Lawson as possibilities)?
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Couldn't agree more.  If Z is the guy, don't **** around with a couple slots...just take him.

 
The 4 spot gets 24 million guaranteed. Not sure our FO is going to pay that to a rookie at the RB spot.

 
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I have been thinking a lot about the draft and what I would do, this is not a prediction thread.  This is *my* final board, I have looked at it 100 ways and sideways.  I also looked for a potential trading down partner.  I think 7 (SF) is as far as we can move.  Eagles at 8 is not a match and I think 9 is too thin talent wise.

Here is my Big Board and my personal ranking of the targets:

1 Ramsey-I draft him if there.

2 Tunsil-Will be gone, not picking him though. Cannot allocate that much $$$ on one position group.  He technically isn't on my board but we all know he is gone at 3 at worst.

3 Wentz-I draft him if there.

*****here is where I consider moving down slightly******

4 Goff

5 Zeke

6 Bosa

7 Hargreaves

San Fran has the 7 pick and may be willing to move to 4 to grab a QB.  Pick 4 is worth 1800 and Pick 7 is worth 1500.  I ask for a 2nd - 550 points and we add a 4th - 100 points. Not certain SF does it, but this is my ask at 4 if Ramsey and Wentz are off the board. otherwise I follow my board.

Would love to read everyone's final board and thoughts.

I will post a full prediction mock during week of the draft.

 
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cobalt_27 said:
Bankerguy said:
The 4 spot gets 24 million guaranteed. Not sure our FO is going to pay that to a rookie at the RB spot.
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If he's the real deal, stupid not to.  I'd rather pay that to a rookie stud RB than a 28 year old stud RB.
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That's not the only consideration though- RB is pretty much the only position where you can get a 28 year old stud for that contract.  Studs at every pretty much every other position go for much more than that, so you'd be better off getting a stud at another position with that pick (in a vacuum).

 
humpback said:
That's not the only consideration though- RB is pretty much the only position where you can get a 28 year old stud for that contract.  Studs at every pretty much every other position go for much more than that, so you'd be better off getting a stud at another position with that pick (in a vacuum).
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Who's a stud 28+ year old RB at $6m/yr?

 
If Zeke is as good as Gurley, I hope we all can agree he's worth the 4 pick and $24 guaranteed.  Especially if Ramsey is off the board.  If he's Melving Gordon, obviously not.

And, are we really going to say paying a pedestrian DE that money is better?  Ugh.

 
cobalt_27 said:
humpback said:
That's not the only consideration though- RB is pretty much the only position where you can get a 28 year old stud for that contract.  Studs at every pretty much every other position go for much more than that, so you'd be better off getting a stud at another position with that pick (in a vacuum).
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Who's a stud 28+ year old RB at $6m/yr?
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Murray.   :P

You said "I'd rather pay that to a rookie stud RB than a 28 year old stud RB."  28 is a random number to pick, but once you get beyond their rookie contracts, studs at every other position make more money than RBs.  Ergo, you're better off getting a stud at pretty much any other position than RB with an early 1st rounder (again, assuming you can).  There are only a handful of RBs making $6m/yr in the NFL right now.

 
My board:

1.  Tunsil - Not avail to us, not a need, but excellent tackle with zero question marks

2.  Jack - IMO, immense potential, difference-maker, available, and position of need.  Play him Will, Mike, Safety, CB, RB, I don't care. Follow the philosophy of getting the very best player, and he's that.

3.  Buckner - Favorite DL this year, and it's not close.  Full disclosure, I'm a Duck alumn, so I paid more attention to him than most, but he's a beast.  I know the "fit" argument for our base defense  And, I hate it.  Especially with this guy available and idea we'd take Bosa over him.  

4a.  Zeke - I'm super-impressed and have no question he translates to the next level.  I'd have no qualms about taking him at 4, especially given his proficiency in pass pro.  But, you draft him to do what he does with the ball 300-350 times a season.  He/Ramsey are interchangeable at 4 for me. 

4b.  Ramsey - Forget safety, draft him here as CB.  Fills need, great player.  Probably doesn't fall to us, tho.
6.  Goff - I flirted with the Wentz hype for a month, but I've come back around on Goff.  Superior technician, better pedigree.  Not top echelon QB in the mold of Luck or anything, but checks all the boxes to be a very good QB with potential for an even higher ceiling.

7.  Floyd - Versatile pass-rusher.  Can fit base D but fits well in hybrid approach.  But, can't take him at 4.  This is a trade-down option.  Not going to happen, but this exercise is one of whom I like here.

8.  Wentz - I still think he could be a good QB, but ball inconsistent placement and concerned he's not going to be pro-ready for years, if ever.  Worth the risk, though, and I won't hate it if we take him at 4.

Regarding Bosa - Serviceable body on DL.  Position of need.  Fits the base scheme we're running this season, so there's that. Seems like a headache, otherwise.  Probably not even in my top-10, but he's somewhere in this range.

Hargreaves - I have concerns about mental make-up, but talent undeniable and position of need.  Not worth top-5, but a serviceable pick if we trade down and pick up a pick or more.  I'd prefer someone else and grab Apple later.

 
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