Offensive Lines (1 Viewer)

[Borden]

Pro Football Logic also has player ratings, although their method for creating the ratings is less transparent.

Based on their player ratings for individual offensive linemen, here are the team offensive line rankings that I calculate:

1. PHI
2. DAL
3. OAK
4. LAR
5. PIT
6. ATL
7. NE
8. TEN
9. NO
10. KC
11. WAS
12. SF
13. GB
14. DET
15. JAC
16. TB
17. CLE
18. IND
19. DEN
20. CAR
21. LAC
22. CHI
23. MIA
24. NYJ
25. BAL
26. ARI
27. CIN
28. MIN
29. NYG
30. SEA
31. HOU
32. BUF

One thing that kind of bothers me about these grades is how often there’s 2 players from the same team ranked side by side. Either the grading isn’t varied enough (so they end up sorted next to each because of team name and the same grade) or they are giving out grades based on some team aspect. Which would defeat the point of individual grading.

Edit: this isn’t a concern about you or you post. Just something that I noticed. I could also be missing something.

 

[Chaka]

So how does someone create a table in this forum?  If I had data from a spreadsheet I wanted to import into a post and not have the format go all wonky, what is the process?

No one?

 

[ZWK]

One thing that kind of bothers me about these grades is how often there’s 2 players from the same team ranked side by side. Either the grading isn’t varied enough (so they end up sorted next to each because of team name and the same grade) or they are giving out grades based on some team aspect. Which would defeat the point of individual grading.

Edit: this isn’t a concern about you or you post. Just something that I noticed. I could also be missing something.

That could be. My understanding is that their main aim with their ratings is to try to make predictions about teams (like win totals for the season and point spreads for individual games), and they break things down into individual player ratings mainly in order to have a way to account for injuries and make offseason predictions for teams that have lost or added a bunch of players.

So how does someone create a table in this forum?  If I had data from a spreadsheet I wanted to import into a post and not have the format go all wonky, what is the process?

I would either make a google docs spreadsheet and post a link to it, or else use the "Code" option (which basically creates a text box with a fixed-width font which makes it not-too-hard to align columns).

 

[Biabreakable]

Of course it shows that AQ Shipley played in 1121 offensive snaps out of a total of 1059 offensive snaps run by Arizona last season, so there's that to deal with.

I believe the difference is because a penalty does not count as an offensive play, but it does still count as an offensive snap.

As far as being able to post a table here on the message board, try using the code tool which is inbetween the quote tool and the emotocons. For example.

311 Clinton Portis 2004 23 Feb-51 WAS NFL 11-May 205 28.6 15 15 343 1315 3.83 5 87.7
312 Clinton Portis 2005 24 Feb-51 WAS NFL 11-May 205 28.6 16 16 352 1516 4.31 11 94.8
313 Clinton Portis 2007 26 Feb-51 WAS NFL 11-May 205 28.6 16 16 325 1262 3.88 11 78.9
314 Clinton Portis 2008 27 Feb-51 WAS NFL 11-May 205 28.6 16 16 342 1487 4.35 9 92.9


I just copied that from excel into the code box and left it html.

 

[Bri]

The Titans are the top team in the NFL running wide left and they average a gaudy number like 8-10 ypc. Last year proved that Taylor Lewan is truly one of the best in the game now. Their offense in 2017 focused on the center of the field with even their WRs lining up just off the OL. After a stellar 2016 for their OL, only Lewan really stood out in 2017. The rest blocked for around 4ypc. Quinton Spain is statistically one of the best Gs allowing around 2 sacks per year. Jack Conklin, who receives all the praise, has a similar average. 

The Titans will continue to use their power run game despite the new OC. Until NFL Ds learn to stop a runner behind Lewan and a TE, that will certainly continue. 

They did zone block some under Whis and Mularkey so it's not a total change to a LaFleur offense. Spain lacks the quick feet and since he's a UDFA he is always projected to be replaced....then always does well. This year they brought in two guards to push the starters. Kline should be the backup C along with his starting RG spot. 

Dennis Kelly has been the backup T (an excellent backup T) and the third TE ( a blocker). He will be more like his first several years in the league and be playing guard and tackle.

Conklin is on pace to play week one. There is absolutely no sense of urgency whatsoever. Kelly has been extremely effective. I expect they will state that he is starting week one and then put him on PUP. I don't know why, just how they are. 

Tyler Marz was statistically a super T in college but yet horrific at the Combine. He's been impressive each camp. Last year they tried to convert him to guard and that didn't go smoothly, but he was excellent as a backup T. Spain played T in college and is also considered a backup T. 

The OC called Rams 2.0 fan fiction and again, stated that the power run style will be present. The Rams O thrives with interior players with quick feet. The Titans are blessed with two of the best young tackles in the game. They also have an excellent group of TEs, so they're exceptional on the exterior.  There is more to this and of course the tackles are involved in the Rams O, just trying to keep it short. The Titans new staff watched a ton of film from previous years and prior practices in order to come up with an offense that suits them best. Russ Grimm was masterful at assembling this unit and getting them humming. There will not be a ton of tinkering and foolishness. The former LB and FB, Vrabel absolutely loves Lewan and Henry smashing people. They'll be clever and creative at times, but they're still going to come atcha other times. 

Vrabel has been on the WRs already, to improve their blocking. He is very confident in the OL and appears to be looking at finer points, ways to improve the blocking. 

This will be a top five unit until Lewan and Conklin are separated, if they ever are. 

 

[Snorkelson]

No time to get extremely in depth, but I think Detroit’s line will benefit from having Decker healthy from day 1. Losing your left tackle and having little options to fix it left us with a big issue up front. I could see that line being better than last year if they can simply make it to the season healthy. 

 

[Borden]

The Titans are the top team in the NFL running wide left and they average a gaudy number like 8-10 ypc. Last year proved that Taylor Lewan is truly one of the best in the game now. Their offense in 2017 focused on the center of the field with even their WRs lining up just off the OL. After a stellar 2016 for their OL, only Lewan really stood out in 2017. The rest blocked for around 4ypc. Quinton Spain is statistically one of the best Gs allowing around 2 sacks per year. Jack Conklin, who receives all the praise, has a similar average. 

The Titans will continue to use their power run game despite the new OC. Until NFL Ds learn to stop a runner behind Lewan and a TE, that will certainly continue. 

They did zone block some under Whis and Mularkey so it's not a total change to a LaFleur offense. Spain lacks the quick feet and since he's a UDFA he is always projected to be replaced....then always does well. This year they brought in two guards to push the starters. Kline should be the backup C along with his starting RG spot. 

Dennis Kelly has been the backup T (an excellent backup T) and the third TE ( a blocker). He will be more like his first several years in the league and be playing guard and tackle.

Conklin is on pace to play week one. There is absolutely no sense of urgency whatsoever. Kelly has been extremely effective. I expect they will state that he is starting week one and then put him on PUP. I don't know why, just how they are. 

Tyler Marz was statistically a super T in college but yet horrific at the Combine. He's been impressive each camp. Last year they tried to convert him to guard and that didn't go smoothly, but he was excellent as a backup T. Spain played T in college and is also considered a backup T. 

The OC called Rams 2.0 fan fiction and again, stated that the power run style will be present. The Rams O thrives with interior players with quick feet. The Titans are blessed with two of the best young tackles in the game. They also have an excellent group of TEs, so they're exceptional on the exterior.  There is more to this and of course the tackles are involved in the Rams O, just trying to keep it short. The Titans new staff watched a ton of film from previous years and prior practices in order to come up with an offense that suits them best. Russ Grimm was masterful at assembling this unit and getting them humming. There will not be a ton of tinkering and foolishness. The former LB and FB, Vrabel absolutely loves Lewan and Henry smashing people. They'll be clever and creative at times, but they're still going to come atcha other times. 

Vrabel has been on the WRs already, to improve their blocking. He is very confident in the OL and appears to be looking at finer points, ways to improve the blocking. 

This will be a top five unit until Lewan and Conklin are separated, if they ever are. 

I like this OL because of their Predators pre-games. It’s nice that they are also really good. Do you think that Mariota runs help with their (mostly Lewan’s) numbers? 

 

[Chaka]

I believe the difference is because a penalty does not count as an offensive play, but it does still count as an offensive snap.

As far as being able to post a table here on the message board, try using the code tool which is inbetween the quote tool and the emotocons. For example.

311 Clinton Portis 2004 23 Feb-51 WAS NFL 11-May 205 28.6 15 15 343 1315 3.83 5 87.7
312 Clinton Portis 2005 24 Feb-51 WAS NFL 11-May 205 28.6 16 16 352 1516 4.31 11 94.8
313 Clinton Portis 2007 26 Feb-51 WAS NFL 11-May 205 28.6 16 16 325 1262 3.88 11 78.9
314 Clinton Portis 2008 27 Feb-51 WAS NFL 11-May 205 28.6 16 16 342 1487 4.35 9 92.9


I just copied that from excel into the code box and left it html.

I would either make a google docs spreadsheet and post a link to it, or else use the "Code" option (which basically creates a text box with a fixed-width font which makes it not-too-hard to align columns).

Thanks guys, I had already been trying out the Code functions, I was hoping to be able to post directly but there is still some editing I need to do to get the format the way I want it.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I don't have a real answer for this but will add something anecdotal.

Last year was a bit of an exception but generally the Bengals would stick with the same five linemen all game, game after game (with the odd jumbo package throwing in another guy once in a while).  With a new OL coach this rule may not apply to the Bengals anymore - it may be something to bear watching in Dallas since Alexander has taken over the O-line over there.

-QG

I noticed the change to Alexander in Dallas, that is a bit of a concern but I think that with Garrett and Linehan running the show together for the last four seasons it probably will be a negligible impact.

Also it is very important to understand that I don't think cohesion is the be-all-end-all metric, just another piece of the puzzle.  There are always outliers like Minnesota (who well over performed based upon that metric) and Oakland (who drastically underperformed).

As a Cowboys fan this interests me. Are we saying this Alexander guy generally produces offensive linemen who underperform? Did he have a lot of talent to work with in Cincy? I don't watch their games because they're so stupid and undisciplined it honestly bothers me. 

 

[QuizGuy66]

As a Cowboys fan this interests me. Are we saying this Alexander guy generally produces offensive linemen who underperform? Did he have a lot of talent to work with in Cincy? I don't watch their games because they're so stupid and undisciplined it honestly bothers me. 

once upon a time Cincinnati had good line play and developed lineman - and that was under Alexander (he pre-dated Marvin Lewis and was in Cincy over 20 years).  However in recent years that has stopped being the case.  Coaches have a higher input in the Cincinnati war room than probably every other team in the league - they are actively involved in scouting and the Bengals have one of the smallest - likely THE smallest - scouting staffs in the league.  So he had heavy input in the recently drafted linemen most of whom haven't panned out or developed.  He was a huge proponent of starting Bodine from the get go as a 4th round pick and he never ever got better.  Ogbuehi was probably the worst left tackle not named Flowers and has been a total bust.  Fisher drafted in the 2nd round hasn't really been any better but there is a glimmer of a chance that he could be salvageable (and he had a heart issue corrected over the offseason).  Less heralded guys who did seem to be effective in preseason or in the limited action they have seen like Westerman pretty much were perma-buried on the depth chart.  If you look over at Cincy Jungle that intimates that even other Bengals coaches felt the line has been "soft" in the last two years and a reflection on Alexander.  Pollack has brought a lot of new drills to the team and the reviews have been very positive that he is challenging players and hopefully this will make them better.

And as a Zeke owner in fantasy I am nervous about what Alexander will mean for him.

Now, having said all that Alexander does bring a ton of experience with him.  It's easy to snipe at someone's expertise from the cheap seats but the truth is he's surely forgotten more football than I've ever known.  Alexander is a power-blocking scheme coach which is different than Pollack's zone-block approach.  Perhaps this will mesh better with the philosophy of the rest of the Cowboys staff and is better suited to the offensive packages that Garrett wants them to run.  They presumably let go of Pollack for a reason and philosophical differences seems like an understandable reason.  And maybe getting the boot after 20+ years in the same place will motivate Alexander and he'll engage in some self-analysis that will benefit him and the Cowboys.

As far as talent goes - I don't think that on any objective basis that the talent the Bengals have had on the line in recent years is as good as the Cowboys.  And perhaps with better tools Alexander will do better.   But the final word I'll say as a Bengals fan is - "no backsies"

-QG

 

[Biabreakable]

@QuizGuy66 While its true that Alexander deserves criticism for more recent offensive line picks not developing, its also true that some excellent ones like Whitworth and others have developed under him as well. 

I thought the Cowboys have been running mostly zone blocking with Elliot and Dak? Why would they want to change this? Seems to be working.

Brings up something else that may be worth tracking as far as offensive lines go, what kind of scheme does each team run primarily? I think most teams have a mixture of scheme, but favor either zone or man blocking for the majority of their plays.

 

[QuizGuy66]

@QuizGuy66 While its true that Alexander deserves criticism for more recent offensive line picks not developing, its also true that some excellent ones like Whitworth and others have developed under him as well. 

I thought the Cowboys have been running mostly zone blocking with Elliot and Dak? Why would they want to change this? Seems to be working.

Brings up something else that may be worth tracking as far as offensive lines go, what kind of scheme does each team run primarily? I think most teams have a mixture of scheme, but favor either zone or man blocking for the majority of their plays.

I don't know how it will pan out with the blocking scheme but from what I've read they had different approaches (zone/power).  Why do they do what they do?  Dunno

The Cowboys have been a zone team.  The Bengals (allegedly ) a power team.

And like I said it's not like the Bengals haven't had good lines in the past but the recent years haven't yielded results.

-QG

 

[Snorkelson]

This is the best thread. Hardcore oline ffl talk in late May for the win. Thanks for the effort fellas.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

So buffalo oline...lost incognito...cordy glenn and eric wood......pass on mccoy??

 

[Borden]

So buffalo oline...lost incognito...cordy glenn and eric wood......pass on mccoy??

Ourlads projected starters vs last years. With PFF grades from last year. 

C - Russell Bodine 46.8 vs Eric Wood 67.9

G - John Miller 39.1 vs Incognito 80.5

T - Dion Dawkins 74.5 vs Glenn 68.1

I don’t think McCoy is a hard pass because volume is king in FF and there’s no reason for them to not lean on him heavily. Expectations should be adjusted but that would have to considered against ADP. Right now McCoy has an ADP of RB12 on DraftCalc. He’s also 30 but finished last year as RB7 in both standard and PPR (204.6 and 263.6). A 60 point regression in PPR stills puts him at the 12/13 range in last years standings. Maybe this paragraph is more for the McCoy thread though. I don’t want to derail things with running back discussion.

 

[Chaka]

Ourlads projected starters vs last years. With PFF grades from last year. 

C - Russell Bodine 46.8 vs Eric Wood 67.9

G - John Miller 39.1 vs Incognito 80.5

T - Dion Dawkins 74.5 vs Glenn 68.1

I don’t think McCoy is a hard pass because volume is king in FF and there’s no reason for them to not lean on him heavily. Expectations should be adjusted but that would have to considered against ADP. Right now McCoy has an ADP of RB12 on DraftCalc. He’s also 30 but finished last year as RB7 in both standard and PPR (204.6 and 263.6). A 60 point regression in PPR stills puts him at the 12/13 range in last years standings. Maybe this paragraph is more for the McCoy thread though. I don’t want to derail things with running back discussion.

Nothing to do with grades but FWIW I have Dawkins, Miller, Bodine, Vladamir Ducasse and Jordan Mills as the projected starters.  Bodine is new to the team and the other four accounted for 43 of 80 possible starts in 2017 (regular season) . Miller and Mills had 32 starts in 2016 and 17 in 2015.  From the bench it looks like only Ryan Groy has any starting experience with this unit (1 game in 2017 and 7 in 2016), in fact Groy is the only bench player who has taken any snaps in Buffalo.  

The projected starting unit has the eighth lowest % of returning starts (53.75%) from last season, ninth fewest going back two and three seasons.  I honestly don't think that is all bad considering the general amount of year-over-year turnover.  By comparison only two players from Houston's projected starting unit started any games together last year with Davenport accounting for 4 and Martin with 14 (only 22.5%). 

If you look at the entire offensive line unit it is more grim as they are tied for second worst number of returning starts as a whole.

I can't make many strong arguments for Buffalo bringing in any new talent, or having any talented players coming back from injury (you can at least make that argument in Houston) so...bottom line is I will definitely be dropping McCoy down a couple pegs because of the line.

 

[Football Jones]

With Dallas getting Connor Williams in the 2nd & moving him to LG, allowing Collins to stay at RT, they very well could have the clear top OL in the NFL again if Williams is as advertised & Collins continues to develop (he started coming on at the end of last season).

Williams is an outstanding T prospect, but an elite G prospect. Few teams could afford to move him like the Cowboys can. It could pay off big.

 

[Borden]

Nothing to do with grades but FWIW I have Dawkins, Miller, Bodine, Vladamir Ducasse and Jordan Mills as the projected starters.  Bodine is new to the team and the other four accounted for 43 of 80 possible starts in 2017 (regular season) . Miller and Mills had 32 starts in 2016 and 17 in 2015.  From the bench it looks like only Ryan Groy has any starting experience with this unit (1 game in 2017 and 7 in 2016), in fact Groy is the only bench player who has taken any snaps in Buffalo.  

The projected starting unit has the eighth lowest % of returning starts (53.75%) from last season, ninth fewest going back two and three seasons.  I honestly don't think that is all bad considering the general amount of year-over-year turnover.  By comparison only two players from Houston's projected starting unit started any games together last year with Davenport accounting for 4 and Martin with 14 (only 22.5%). 

If you look at the entire offensive line unit it is more grim as they are tied for second worst number of returning starts as a whole.

I can't make many strong arguments for Buffalo bringing in any new talent, or having any talented players coming back from injury (you can at least make that argument in Houston) so...bottom line is I will definitely be dropping McCoy down a couple pegs because of the line.

Dropping him down from what ranking though?

60 FF points is a pretty drastic drop. Basically 25%. In stats to FF points terms that’s 300 yards and 5 TDs. Considering that OL has a bigger impact on rushing than receiving you could knock 200 yards off his rushing total and 3 TDs (which would be cutting his rushing TDs in half) then still have another 100 yards and 2 TDs (100% of his rec TDs) to cut out of his passing game points. 

His ADP (PPR) is RB12. Which is exactly where he would’ve finished last year if we take off the 60 points. Maybe move his spot up or down one based on personal preference but I’d consider that negligible in the context of this discussion. Discounting a centrepiece back even more than we already did because of the loss of a guard and center (Dawkins started some games for them last year and outperformed Glenn) seems a little drastic. 

 

[ZWK]

McCoy was RB7 in total points but RB9 in ppg (min 8 games), behind Zeke and Fournette. David Johnson, Saquon Barkley, and Dalvin Cook don't figure into last year's standings; if you slot them in ahead of McCoy that moves him down to RB12. Drop Ingram down the rankings and McCoy moves up to RB11. There is just one RB who played 8+ games last year and finished behind McCoy in ppg and is now being drafted ahead of him: Devonta Freeman.

 

[Chaka]

Dropping him down from what ranking though?

60 FF points is a pretty drastic drop. Basically 25%. In stats to FF points terms that’s 300 yards and 5 TDs. Considering that OL has a bigger impact on rushing than receiving you could knock 200 yards off his rushing total and 3 TDs (which would be cutting his rushing TDs in half) then still have another 100 yards and 2 TDs (100% of his rec TDs) to cut out of his passing game points. 

His ADP (PPR) is RB12. Which is exactly where he would’ve finished last year if we take off the 60 points. Maybe move his spot up or down one based on personal preference but I’d consider that negligible in the context of this discussion. Discounting a centrepiece back even more than we already did because of the loss of a guard and center (Dawkins started some games for them last year and outperformed Glenn) seems a little drastic. 

Couldn't tell ya.  I haven't started my draft board yet because I have been too busy working on offensive line numbers for you jokers.

Today is a very busy day for me but, hopefully by Monday I will have figured out the whole google docs thing and set up a shareable spreadsheet.  The sooner we get more eyes on it the sooner I will be able to correct errors or make changes as injuries happen and update which projected starters become actual starters.

 

[Deamon]

Every time I see this thread title I think of this scene from Modern Family from a few years ago

 

[QuizGuy66]

With McCoy - How dependent has his success been on running between the tackles?  Bodine is poison to runs up the middle.  However if McCarron has less time to throw that would seem to increase the need for screens.  And McCarron shouldn't run as much as Tyrod.

-QG

 

[Bri]

I like this OL because of their Predators pre-games. It’s nice that they are also really good. Do you think that Mariota runs help with their (mostly Lewan’s) numbers? 

Not much. He prefers right. Most of their long gains broke free around Lewan

 

[Borden]

Houston OL (copy and paste from the Lamar Miller thread):

Spoiler

For the Houston OL:

Last year, they were the worst line in the league according to PFF. Actually thee worst as 32nd ranked OL last year. They added Seantrel Henderson, Senio Kelemete, Zach Fulton and Martinas Rankin in the 3 round of the draft. Ourlads has the starting OL as (PFF grade in brackets)... 

Julien Davenport (47.6), Zach Fulton (68.8), Nick Martin (44.9), **Senio Kelemete (48.3), Seantrel Henderson (69.3) **PFF is projecting that the rookie Rankin takes Kelemete’s spot.

Pretty bleak. A couple of positive notes; Davenport was a rookie last year. So, it isn’t unreasonable to expect improvement. Su’a-Filo and his 35.8 grade is gone. So is Breno Giacomini and his 32.7 grade. Kendall Lamm is still around and had better grade at 53.6 than most that unit. Lamm had limited starts but he might be enough to fill in for injuries. I know it’s the offseason and everyone is hopeful still but there is at least signs of life with this new group. Again though, they are going from the actual worst to below average.

 

[Chaka]

Here is a link to the spreadsheet I created.  I am sure there are errors/issues so let me know if I missed something (particularly as it relates to projected starters).  Each team has their own page, first page shows the % of returning total starts for the projected starting unit and the line as whole, based upon 80 total regular season starts possible for each unit (16 games * 5 starters).   There is also an initial attempt at adding total snaps played but I was concerned with the source data so I have not added to it.

 

[Borden]

Seattle OL:

This is stolen from @Chaka in a different thread: “... line is a very big question mark heading into 2018. On the plus side, Justin Britt has been a rock manning the center position, starting 63 of the last 64 games. Germaine Ifedi, a first round pick, has started 29 of the last 32 games Duane Brown started nine games last season and will have a full offseason to work with the team. 2017 second round pick Ethan Pocic was thrown into the fire last year and managed 11 starts.  There is definitely not a ton of cohesion on the Seattle offensive line but it's not all doom and gloom.  A starting unit has a total of 80 starts in a 16 game season (16*5) and Seattle is returning 52 of those starts in 2017, that's right about league average (18th of 32 teams). If we judge by draft capital then it looks like they are not devoid of talent either. There is a big gap at RG that DJ Fluker was brought in to fill, which I am sure doesn't excite many talent evaluators. And of their bench players only Rees Odhiambo started any games last season, in fact he is the only bench player to log any snaps with Seattle in 2017.  George Fant did start 10 games in 2016.  I see the bench as dangerously thin.  They also have a new OC and a new OL coach so there is going to be some new concepts they will have to figure out together.

This is definitely a difficult line to project but I don't think they will be as bad as the popular narrative surrounding them suggests.  I doubt they will move into the upper echelon of OLs, but I think they can easily be a middle of the pack line. IMO I wouldn't negatively adjust players in Seattle on my draft based upon their offensive line, but I wouldn't give them a bump either.”

 

[Borden]

Continuing with Seattle;

Ourlads is projecting (PFF score from last year)... LT - Brown (77.9), LG - Pocic (35.7), C - Britt (66.9), RG - Fluker (42.3), RT - Ifedi (48.6)

Pocic was a rookie last year and Ifedi was a second year guy last year. Assuming improvement from from them isn’t crazy. 

 

[BoltBacker]

Here is a link to the spreadsheet I created.  I am sure there are errors/issues so let me know if I missed something (particularly as it relates to projected starters).  Each team has their own page, first page shows the % of returning total starts for the projected starting unit and the line as whole, based upon 80 total regular season starts possible for each unit (16 games * 5 starters).   There is also an initial attempt at adding total snaps played but I was concerned with the source data so I have not added to it.

When Joe asks what would make this message board better.... more posts like this. Great stuff Chaka. 

 

[Snorkelson]

You guys are such nerds. Thank you!!!!

 

[Interseptopus]

Here is a link to the spreadsheet I created.  I am sure there are errors/issues so let me know if I missed something (particularly as it relates to projected starters).  Each team has their own page, first page shows the % of returning total starts for the projected starting unit and the line as whole, based upon 80 total regular season starts possible for each unit (16 games * 5 starters).   There is also an initial attempt at adding total snaps played but I was concerned with the source data so I have not added to it.

this is great work. a little difficult for me to understand what I'm looking at in some places, but with more time I should be able to figure it out

 

[Chaka]

this is great work. a little difficult for me to understand what I'm looking at in some places, but with more time I should be able to figure it out

It's rough data. I didn't clean it up for presentation. If you have any questions, or suggestions, let 'em rip, because I am sure you are not the only one. It will also help flesh out the spreadsheet.

 

[Chaka]

I see a lot of people using the PFF rankings for, well everything. Are those free? I presume they also have data that goes back a few seasons.

I'm thinking I could add the PFF grades to the sheet as a subjective proxy for (perceived) talent.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

NFL.com 10 Best - Link (Updated March 19th, 2018)

Saints ranked no. 1. I really think it’s justified. Three former 1st rounders, Unger, and Armstead who has to be maybe the best downfield blocking o-lineman I’ve seen for the Saints in a long time. 

 

[Borden]

Added @Chaka work to the OP. Quote or “@“ me if someone has a link to anything else they want me to put in that first post.

 

[Borden]

Tampa Bay

From a PFF article on the Bucs offseason moves... “However, Tampa also did their best to bring in problem area solutions, signing Ryan Jensen from Baltimore to man the center of the offensive line, allowing Ali Marpet to slide back over to guard after a seemingly failed experiment with him at center. While Marpet didn’t play bad at center last season, his best years have been at guard and the move to bring in Jensen frees him up to move back.”

PFF ranked them 17th overall last year but they had a poor yards before contact in the run game with 1.21 for 25th in the league. Getting Dotson back (missed the last 5 games), bringing in Jensen and moving Marpet back to guard could really help them. They also added a 3rd round guard.

 

[DawnBTVS]

Always love the work of Football Outsiders and their Offensive Line Rankings which allow for some potentially interesting situations at the RB position.

• Indianapolis Colts: Ranked 2nd in SY runs but were middle of the pack in stuff percent. Colts did have 3 games over 140+ rushing over their final 5 games. If they can develop any 2nd Level blocking, it's a group worth keeping an eye on.
  
• Cincinnati Bengals: Had a down year, despite Gio Bernard averaging 4.5 YPC, and that may have some FF owners shying away. They were still very good at not being stuffed too often and getting to the 2nd Level.
  
• Cleveland Browns: Really good as a running unit in almost every facet but went 0-16 and were forced to throw the ball in every game. Crowell has a sneaky chance to put up over 1,000 yards if the team can get a balanced passing game going and the OL plays to the level of 2017.
  

 

[Borden]

Always love the work of Football Outsiders and their Offensive Line Rankings which allow for some potentially interesting situations at the RB position.

• Indianapolis Colts: Ranked 2nd in SY runs but were middle of the pack in stuff percent. Colts did have 3 games over 140+ rushing over their final 5 games. If they can develop any 2nd Level blocking, it's a group worth keeping an eye on.
  
• Cincinnati Bengals: Had a down year, despite Gio Bernard averaging 4.5 YPC, and that may have some FF owners shying away. They were still very good at not being stuffed too often and getting to the 2nd Level.
  
• Cleveland Browns: Really good as a running unit in almost every facet but went 0-16 and were forced to throw the ball in every game. Crowell has a sneaky chance to put up over 1,000 yards if the team can get a balanced passing game going and the OL plays to the level of 2017.
  

Crowell is with the Jets now but Hyde, Chubb and Duke. However it’s also very important to factor in that Joe Thomas is gone.

 

[BoltBacker]

Ask and you shall receive......

How We Grade Offensive and Defensive Line | Pff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVD-Hw7cTo4

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Crowell is with the Jets now but Hyde, Chubb and Duke. However it’s also very important to factor in that Joe Thomas is gone.

The list shows the Browns only ran 291 times last year, by far the lowest in the league yet they graded out as the 14th 'best' run blocking O-Line.

Joe Thomas got injured in the 7th game last year so he only played 6 full games meaning that the Browns grade from last year was based on an O-Line that was without Joe Thomas for over half of the season.   Take into consideration that they had to scramble to replace Joe-T on the fly.  They did not have free agency or the draft to bring in potential replacements last year.

They have had a full off season with free agency to bring in a full time starter and the draft to bring in a solid swing man inside and the plan is shuffling the RT to LT, his natural college position.  Back to the point, last year's O-Line run grade 'could' improve and they will 'very-likely' improve the run attempt numbers because game scripts 'very-likely' will be more favorable..  

Bottom line, rush attempts should improve and run grade 'might' also improve to making rush attempts more efficient.  

 

[Biabreakable]

The list shows the Browns only ran 291 times last year, by far the lowest in the league yet they graded out as the 14th 'best' run blocking O-Line.

How can there only be 291 rushing attempts by the Browns last year?

The Browns ran the ball 384 times last season. If we are not talking about QB runs for this, then subtract 88 QB runs and this leaves 296 rushing attempts which is close to that number but still not quite what it was.

Crowell, Johnson, Dayes combined for 293 rushing attempts last season.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

How can there only be 291 rushing attempts by the Browns last year?

The Browns ran the ball 384 times last season. If we are not talking about QB runs for this, then subtract 88 QB runs and this leaves 296 rushing attempts which is close to that number but still not quite what it was.

Crowell, Johnson, Dayes combined for 293 rushing attempts last season.

Football Outsiders layered charts using a regression analysis of data per direction of run.  Very complicated so go to the link to find out what numbers they are using.

The bottom chart is the one that other people were commenting on.

Regular season totals, through Week 17

The third table lists how often each team runs in each direction. Numbers may not add up to 100% due to carries listed without direction. Certain teams may have abnormal splits because of specific official scorer tendencies.

 

[Borden]

The list shows the Browns only ran 291 times last year, by far the lowest in the league yet they graded out as the 14th 'best' run blocking O-Line.

Joe Thomas got injured in the 7th game last year so he only played 6 full games meaning that the Browns grade from last year was based on an O-Line that was without Joe Thomas for over half of the season.   Take into consideration that they had to scramble to replace Joe-T on the fly.  They did not have free agency or the draft to bring in potential replacements last year.

They have had a full off season with free agency to bring in a full time starter and the draft to bring in a solid swing man inside and the plan is shuffling the RT to LT, his natural college position.  Back to the point, last year's O-Line run grade 'could' improve and they will 'very-likely' improve the run attempt numbers because game scripts 'very-likely' will be more favorable..  

Bottom line, rush attempts should improve and run grade 'might' also improve to making rush attempts more efficient.  

Their rush attempts should increase but going from 0-16 to a team that has a commanding enough lead that they can just sand away games with running the ball doesn't seem like a strong possibility. I do overall agree that they will run the ball more often. Adding Hyde and Chubb to not run the ball much would be dumb.

However, the OL improving with the loss of Joe Thomas doesn’t seem likely. The rankings based off of where they ran is pretty strange. To the left and center they were top 5ish. To the right they were 31st and 32nd. I would have to think that that left side was performing better with a Hall of Fame LT than without him. So how much did he boost that left side in the 6 or 7 games? I don’t know but when when you have the worst run blocking in the league on the right side, anything short of elite level play on the left is going to bring the whole unit down.

I do want to clarify that I don’t think they will be bad this year but I don’t the OL will be better this year. 

 

[Biabreakable]

Although all teams are trying to get better across the board, obviously trying and doing are not the same thing. Some of these offensive lines will by default have to be the worst in the league.

Which offensive lines seem most likely to be in the bottom 5?

Which offensive lines should be expected to be the worst at run blocking? Again perhaps the bottom 5. The worst ones would be good to identify and perhaps downgrade those teams RB somewhat because of it.

Otherwise with a lot of moving pieces I think the 22 or so teams in the middle could be considered averagish.  Focusing on the top 5 and bottom 5 may be useful.

If offensive line grades are similar, maybe this would be a bottom 4-8 I don't know. I just thought trying to look at which ones are the bottom 5 might be a useful thing to look at.

 

[Chaka]

Although all teams are trying to get better across the board, obviously trying and doing are not the same thing. Some of these offensive lines will by default have to be the worst in the league.

Which offensive lines seem most likely to be in the bottom 5?

Which offensive lines should be expected to be the worst at run blocking? Again perhaps the bottom 5. The worst ones would be good to identify and perhaps downgrade those teams RB somewhat because of it.

Otherwise with a lot of moving pieces I think the 22 or so teams in the middle could be considered averagish.  Focusing on the top 5 and bottom 5 may be useful.

If offensive line grades are similar, maybe this would be a bottom 4-8 I don't know. I just thought trying to look at which ones are the bottom 5 might be a useful thing to look at.

Houston is my early favorite for worst offensive line.

 

[Biabreakable]

Houston is my early favorite for worst offensive line.

Who else?

I would guess by looking at the combined ratings, the bottom tier could be identified.

 

[Borden]

Although all teams are trying to get better across the board, obviously trying and doing are not the same thing. Some of these offensive lines will by default have to be the worst in the league.

Which offensive lines seem most likely to be in the bottom 5?

Which offensive lines should be expected to be the worst at run blocking? Again perhaps the bottom 5. The worst ones would be good to identify and perhaps downgrade those teams RB somewhat because of it.

Otherwise with a lot of moving pieces I think the 22 or so teams in the middle could be considered averagish.  Focusing on the top 5 and bottom 5 may be useful.

If offensive line grades are similar, maybe this would be a bottom 4-8 I don't know. I just thought trying to look at which ones are the bottom 5 might be a useful thing to look at.

Off the top of my head...

Bills, Texans, Seahawks, Phins, Jets

The last 2 only stand out because the Bills are my team and I remember PFF saying they were bad. The Jets didn’t have many injuries, they were just bad. And Miami had the worst run blocking in the league.

Edit: I went back and checked, PFF and FO have the Lions as the second and worst running blocking lines. 

 

[Biabreakable]

The NFL's top 5 offensive linemen at each position by run-block success percentage

This is what I am looking for right now.

Where can I find a complete list of offensive linemen based on their run blocking grades?

My thought was to compile all of these ratings for each offensive line and through those ratings, try to figure out a top tier and bottom tier as I was asking about above.

This could be used for a modifier to RB performance for 2018 I think. I just haven't seen a complete list that is focusing only on run blocking.

Borden refers to this in recent post above, but I am not seeing a complete list like this from PFF.

 

[Biabreakable]

Pro Football Logic also has player ratings, although their method for creating the ratings is less transparent.

Based on their player ratings for individual offensive linemen, here are the team offensive line rankings that I calculate:

1. PHI
2. DAL
3. OAK
4. LAR
5. PIT
6. ATL
7. NE
8. TEN
9. NO
10. KC
11. WAS
12. SF
13. GB
14. DET
15. JAC
16. TB
17. CLE
18. IND
19. DEN
20. CAR
21. LAC
22. CHI
23. MIA
24. NYJ
25. BAL
26. ARI
27. CIN
28. MIN
29. NYG
30. SEA
31. HOU
32. BUF

This is great ZWK and thanks for compiling the information together.

However these ratings are combined ratings, or pass blocking and run blocking. I would like to decouple these two different types of blocking. Not seeing how I could do that with their data.

 

[Borden]

The NFL's top 5 offensive linemen at each position by run-block success percentage

This is what I am looking for right now.

Where can I find a complete list of offensive linemen based on their run blocking grades?

My thought was to compile all of these ratings for each offensive line and through those ratings, try to figure out a top tier and bottom tier as I was asking about above.

This could be used for a modifier to RB performance for 2018 I think. I just haven't seen a complete list that is focusing only on run blocking.

Borden refers to this in recent post above, but I am not seeing a complete list like this from PFF.

I google the players name then PFF. Example: “Joe Thomas PFF” Then scroll down. That how I get the players individual grade. It is a combined grade of run and pass.

The group ranking that used was from the PFF link in the first post. If you read through the blurbs on each team they have the groups yards before contact number. Then say where that number ranks them in the next sentence. These’s numbers are from last year, of course, but I want to clarify that and that they aren’t projections for this coming year.

PFF Link

 

[Chaka]

Who else?

I would guess by looking at the combined ratings, the bottom tier could be identified.

Arizona definitely looks questionable.

Miami, maybe.

Buffalo seems to have lost a lot.

Giants are adding a lot of new pieces.