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​ 🏛️ ​Official Supreme Court nomination thread - Amy Coney Barrett (2 Viewers)

Matthias said:
I'm honestly not sure what world you guys think you're living in where an alleged sexual assault wouldn't matter in confirming a Supreme Court justice.
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We're living in the world of Trump and Trump supporters.  :shrug:  

 
Juxtatarot said:
Flake's transcript:

Mr. President,

I rise today to say a few words about the two human beings who will be providing extraordinarily important testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee tomorrow - Dr. Christine Blasey Ford and Judge Brett Kavanaugh, who will testify in that order.

Two human beings. It feels a bit odd in this political setting to specify their humanity that way, doesn’t it? And I admit it feels strange to have to do that. But we in this political culture and in this city and in this building and even in this chamber – we seem to sometimes forget that before this woman and this man are anything else, they are human beings.

We sometimes seem intent on stripping people of their humanity so that we might more easily disregard or defame them and put them through the grinder that our politics requires. We seem, sometimes, to even enjoy that.

For the past two weeks we have certainly seen that happen to both of these human beings, for whatever reason – because we think we are right and they are wrong, because we think that our ideological struggle is more important than their humanity, because we are so practiced at dehumanizing people that we have also dehumanized ourselves.

Whatever else they are or have become to us, whatever grotesque caricature we have made of them or ourselves, before we are Democrats or Republicans, before we are even Americans, we are human beings. As President Kennedy said, “We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal.”

And so these witnesses who will testify in a very important hearing tomorrow, these unwitting combatants in an undeclared war - these people are not props for us to make our political points, nor are they to be “demolished like Anita Hill” as was said on conservative media the other night. Nor is one them a “proven sex criminal” as has been circulating on the left side of the Internet. These are human beings, with families and children – people who love them and people whom they love and live for – and each is suffering through the very ugly process that we have created.

I will not review the unseemly process that brought us to this point, because that is for another time, and in any case didn’t start with this particular nomination. But here we are.

There was an earlier case, twenty-seven years ago, from which you might have thought we would have learned something, but the past couple of weeks makes it clear that we really haven’t learned much at all. Consequently, there have been cries from both sides of these proceedings that each of these witnesses has fallen victim to character assassination. Both of those claims are absolutely correct. And so I will say to these witnesses – these human beings - we owe both of you a sincere apology.

An apology is inadequate, of course, but it’s a start. We can’t very well undo the damage that has been done, but we can govern our own behavior as we go through this painful hearing tomorrow, and the days afterward. We must do that, lest we do even more damage. Some of the public comments about both of these witnesses have been vile.

Not unrelated to those comments, each of these witnesses have reportedly been subject to death threats, and for that we should be ashamed. The toxic political culture that we have created has infected everything, and we have done little to stop it. In fact, we have only indulged it, and fanned the flames, taken partisan advantage at every turn, and deepened the ugly divisions that exist in our country.

These past two years, we have tested the limits of how low we can go. And my colleagues, I say to you that winning at all costs is too high a cost. If we cannot have a human – rather than a political – response to these witnesses, if we are heedless to the capacity that we have to do real and lasting damage, then maybe we shouldn’t be here.

When Dr. Ford came forward, I felt strongly that her voice needed to be heard, and that is why I informed Chairman Grassley that the Judiciary Committee could not and should not proceed to vote until she had the opportunity to make her voice heard, until such time that her claims were fully aired and carefully considered, her credibility gauged. This is a lifetime appointment. This is said to be a deliberative body. In the interest of due diligence and fairness, it seemed to me to be the only thing to do.

Not everybody felt that way. One man, somewhere in the country, called my office in Arizona and left a message saying that he was tired of me “interrupting our president” and that for the offense of allowing Dr. Ford to be heard, for this offense, me and my family would be “taken out.”

I mention this with reluctance, but only to say that we have lit a match, my colleagues. The question is, do we appreciate how close the powder keg is?

Tomorrow, we have a hearing. Many members of this body, from both parties, have already made up their minds, on the record, in advance of this hearing. They will presumably hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest. One is tempted to ask, why even bother to have a hearing?

I do not know how I will assess the credibility of these witnesses – these human beings – on the grave matters that will be testified to, because I have not yet heard a word of their testimony, and because I am not psychic. I am not gifted with clairvoyance. Given these limitations, I will have to listen to the testimony before I make up my mind about the testimony.

What I do know is that I don’t believe that Dr. Ford is part of some kind of vast conspiracy from start to finish to smear Judge Kavanaugh, as has been alleged by some on the right.

And what I do know is that I don’t believe that Judge Kavanaugh is some kind of serial sexual predator, as has been alleged by some on the left. 

I must also say that separate and apart from this nomination and the facts that pertain to it, I do not believe that a claim of sexual assault is invalid because a 15-year-old girl didn’t promptly report the assault to the authorities, as the President of the United States said just two days ago. How uninformed and uncaring do you have to be to say things like that, much less believe them? Do we have any idea what kind of message that sends, especially to young women? How many times do we have to marginalize and ignore women before we learn that important lesson?

And now, if I might say a word or two about the human beings first, on the Judiciary Committee and then in the full senate who will have to weigh the testimony we will hear tomorrow, and come to a decision on this nomination.

The Judiciary Committee is scheduled to vote on Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination on Friday. I hope that tomorrow’s hearing gives us some guidance on how we vote. But those of us on the Committee have to be prepared for the possibility, indeed the likelihood, that there will be no definitive answers to the very large questions before us. In legal terms, the outcome might not be dispositive.

While we can only vote yes or no, I hope that we in this body will acknowledge that we don’t have all the answers. We are imperfect, and we make imperfect decisions. This monumental decision will no doubt fit that description. Up or down, yes or no, however this vote goes, I am confident in saying that it will forever be steeped in doubt. This doubt is the only thing of which I am confident in this process.

I say to all of my colleagues: For this process to be a process, we must have open minds. We must listen. We must do our best, seek the truth, in good faith. That is our only duty.

Thank you, Mr. President. I yield the floor.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2018/09/26/sen-jeff-flake-full-transcript-senate-speech-brett-kavanaugh/1433244002/
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Yup, serious concern. But he will probably vote for him

 
Clayton Gray said:
She closed by wondering why anyone would want to submit themselves to the nomination process if this is what is going to happen to them.
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Admittedly this is a minor footnote in this fiasco for most people, but it is incredibly infuriating to watch conservatives play this card after spending decades vilifying, scapegoating, slashing pay for and otherwise trashing civil servants and political appointees. Trump just pushed a pay freeze three weeks ago.

 
squistion said:
Don't Noonan said:
Because the Midterms are in less than 2 months.  Democrats are hoping to delay and then reject any new replacement nominee that Trump puts out there if they win the Senate.
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Don't complain about delays. Please. Republicans held Scalia's seat open for over 400 days. Don't recall you or any of the other Trump supporters complaining about that.
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A thousand times this.  It's unbelievable how Republicans and their talking heads can complain about delaying an already fast tracked nominee. Please.

 
proninja said:
Yesterday it was said the liberal's heads are going to explode when Kavanaugh gets confirmed. 

Why are you guys so hung up on how liberals react? Why not worry about doing the right thing? 
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That requires self reflection and just a tad of self awareness....not very high on the priority list these days.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
I'm not defending anyone. Unlike alot of people here I don't claim to know if any of this or all of this or none if this is true.

But haven't you ever asked yourself why she would continue to go to these parties?

Or why noone ever told anyone what was allegedly going on at these parties?

I have
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I would say there are probably a number of reasons.

Chief among them, bringing these kind of accusations is really hard on someone's life right now.  In the early 80s, it was even more destructive. By a lot. Add in the fact that one of the kids she'd be accusing (Kavanaugh) was the child of a prosecutor (later judge) in the same county, and the fact that she was at a party full of underage drinking.  And she was a nerdy girl who was being allowed at popular kid parties.

We're talking about a girl who, while still in high school, was allowed into an internship at a major university to study laser holographic imaging in the late 70s.  And then was studying applied particle physics the next year.  It's not outrageous to think the slightest hint of impropriety would have derailed everything, at least in her mind.  

 
jomar said:
anyone remember when people were offended that half of Trump's supporters were called deplorable?  that was ok, but its funny when people get offended by sexual assault
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and since then they've done their damnedest to live up to the reputation.  

 
jomar said:
anyone remember when people were offended that half of Trump's supporters were called deplorable?  that was ok, but its funny when people get offended by sexual assault
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Many of Trump's supporters have proven time and time again that if the shoe fits...

 
proninja said:
Sheriff Bart said:
squistion said:
Don't Noonan said:
Because the Midterms are in less than 2 months.  Democrats are hoping to delay and then reject any new replacement nominee that Trump puts out there if they win the Senate.
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Don't complain about delays. Please. Republicans held Scalia's seat open for over 400 days. Don't recall you or any of the other Trump supporters complaining about that.
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A thousand times this.  It's unbelievable how Republicans and their talking heads can complain about delaying an already fast tracked nominee. Please.
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A thousand times all of this, but let's be clear

An investigation is not a delay. It's simply doing the job. 
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Correct.  Republicans call it a delay, obstruction or a con job whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

 
-fish- said:
This is what happens when you farm out your vetting process to the Federalist Society and add a pinch of Mitch McConnell.   The only thing they cared about was a strong record of socially conservative opinions and a guaranteed pro-life, pro-gun justice.   
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From what I recall the word was that Trump was actually warned by those folks that Kavanaugh would be the toughest to confirm, although I assume that was more because of the paper trail and his time as a political operative than because they knew this stuff was coming.  I think Trump wanted him because of his views on executive power/privilege.

 
Henry Ford said:
I know of no reason action cannot be taken against him - however, I believe removal from the bench would require impeachment.
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Gotcha, so if he's confirmed that's good they can still come after him if there is truly a case. I can see it moving forward then in the case it's a stall tactic until mid terms which looks like a significant possibility and the criminal case could still be pursued which is good. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
From what I recall the word was that Trump was actually warned by those folks that Kavanaugh would be the toughest to confirm, although I assume that was more because of the paper trail and his time as a political operative than because they knew this stuff was coming.  I think Trump wanted him because of his views on executive power/privilege.
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My understanding is that McConnell made a strong push for Kavanaugh when Trump had narrowed it down to 3-5 from 25 and had left him out.

 
GoBirds said:
Gotcha, so if he's confirmed that's good they can still come after him if there is truly a case. I can see it moving forward then in the case it's a stall tactic until mid terms which looks like a significant possibility and the criminal case could still be pursued which is good. 
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It is unlikely that a criminal case will ever be brought against Kavanaugh unless Judge is prosecuted because of his confession to his ex and he gives evidence on Kavanaugh.

 
-fish- said:
My understanding is that McConnell made a strong push for Kavanaugh when Trump had narrowed it down to 3-5 from 25 and had left him out.
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That's weird. I don't know why McConnell would have such a preference for Kavanaugh over equally conservative/young candidates, of which there were a few.

 
GoBirds said:
Gotcha, so if he's confirmed that's good they can still come after him if there is truly a case. I can see it moving forward then in the case it's a stall tactic until mid terms which looks like a significant possibility and the criminal case could still be pursued which is good. 
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what percentage chance do you think there is that these women, who have called for an FBI investigation and issued sworn statements that, if false, could end their career, are participating in a political stall static that will completely upend their lives?  2%?  5%?

Appointing this man in the face of these allegations is insanity.

 
parasaurolophus said:
You are talking about post rape victim behavior. He is referring to pre rape victim behavior. 
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No I'm not. I'm talking about young women who went to parties in which terrible things happened to other young women, and nobody reported anything. It happened (and continues to happen) all the time.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
No, you're not "rite"

"Oof?" Seriously?

I grew up in a place where if this was happening, someone would have told someone this was happening. This happened at 10 parties?

Where I grew up, one of these girls (at the VERY least) male family members or friends would have been told about it and these ####ers would have ended up in the hospital or among the missing if this was happening.

Where did you grow up?
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As usual, I don't believe a word you write.

 
They're going to go ahead with this.  Flake will hesitate, agonize, and reluctantly vote in favor.

It comes down to Collins and Murkowski.

 
zoonation said:
what percentage chance do you think there is that these women, who have called for an FBI investigation and issued sworn statements that, if false, could end their career, are participating in a political stall static that will completely upend their lives?  2%?  5%?

Appointing this man in the face of these allegations is insanity.
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If you really think it's only 2-5% then you have your blinders on because it serves your political motives. While it certainly needs to be pursued there is a significant chance this is appearing now for political reasons. If guilty he deserves to pay for sure.......timing seems very political obviously. 

 
mrip541 said:
A govt employee with multiple security clearances just accused a federal judge of being a drunken gang rapist in a sworn statement. I don't see how he gets through at this point.
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So far I have not heard a single Republican even say that the FBI should investigate the allegations. They all seem to be going along with the unofficial motto of the Trump administration. "Ni shagu nazad!"

 
GoBirds said:
If you really think it's only 2-5% then you have your blinders on because it serves your political motives. While it certainly needs to be pursued there is a significant chance this is appearing now for political reasons. If guilty he deserves to pay for sure.......timing seems very political obviously. 
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GoBirds, based on the bolded:

1. Are you in favor of an FBI investigation, and holding off the vote until the investigation is completed?

2. If the Senate refuses to wait, and holds a vote right now, will you be as outraged as most of the rest of us?

 
So now we have 3 women. All of them willing to make sworn statements. All of them with nothing to gain, and a lot to lose. All of them with corroborating statements to some degree.

 
timschochet said:
They're going to go ahead with this.  Flake will hesitate, agonize, and reluctantly vote in favor.

It comes down to Collins and Murkowski.
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It’s not even the integrity factor that makes me shake my head at Flake and others out there. There’s a very easy opportunity right here for a GOP senator to become a party leader and immediate challenger to Trump in 2020. Just stand up and say enough is enough. It should be as easy as condemning the Nazis at Charlottesville. But yet no one is willing to anger donors or Trump’s base. That’s where we’re at now.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Juxtatarot said:
That's his inclination but what if more and more Republican Senators tell him they'll bail?  Edit: it only takes a few.
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Technically it only takes one, if that one is a member of the Judiciary Committee like Ben Sasse or Jeff Flake. 
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I don't think that's correct. The nomination can still be introduced to the full Senate even if it doesn't pass the committee vote.

 
timschochet said:
No I'm not. I'm talking about young women who went to parties in which terrible things happened to other young women, and nobody reported anything. It happened (and continues to happen) all the time.
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I see now he has affirmed what you are saying. My view on the matter was different. Here is what I was about to post in reply to you, which is obviously not the point he was making(god bless the show replies feature).

I find it discussion worthy why a 19-20 year old girl would continue to go to high school parties that had regular gang rapes by the same guys. This isn't like the situation where one time it happened and nobody said anything. That is well documented. This isn't a situation where we are talking about a gang of bandits or a street gang that has female members that get raped but stay in the gang. That kind of stuff is also documented. So definitely not credibility destroying information, but worthy of discussion nonetheless since it isn't something that falls into a bucket of common victim behavior, since she wasn't a victim at that time. 

 
timschochet said:
The implication of your argument, if I understand you correctly, is that if Brett Kavanaugh had been Trump's selection in 2017 to replace Antonin Scalia, none of these women would have appeared. That seems exceedingly unlikely to me.
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I was speaking more to the vehement denial of confirming prior to hearings and in some cases prior to Kavanaugh actually being selected by trump.

 
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