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RB Saquon Barkley, PHI (1 Viewer)

az_prof said:
I've seen so many bad QB picks in the top five in the past 10 years and those misses really hurt because the contracts are in the 100 Million plus range guaranteed. It was over ten years ago, but I still remember Jamarcus Russell getting six year contract for 68 million and he was so bad and his contract really hurt that team for a long time.
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Very true. And you don't even have to go back that far. Paxton Lynch, Winston, Mariota, Manziel, Bridgewater, EJ Manual, RG3, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder.....

All first rounders taken over the past 6 years.  For someone to call drafting Barkley a 'catastrophic' decision when so many first round QBs are either just average or total flops is a ridiculous statement.  If the Giants saw someone that they felt confident would be a Luck or Wentz or Rodgers, I am sure they would have drafted him. In five years we will have the ability to look back and decide if it was a bad decision.  If Barkley is a Tomlinson/Faulk type of back and Darnold/Allen/Rosen never end up any better than Winston or Mariota, it was 100% the correct pick. 

 
RushHour said:
Sorry to derail, but why is everyone so sure Darnold is going to be great? He's been fine so far - basically a game manager with limited upside. He deserves credit for not face-planting at such a young age but after 2 weeks it seems like he's already been anointed.
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I dunno. Some guys just have "the look" right away. Darnold seems to have "it" to me. Guys like Trubisky don't. Its obviously subjective. Goff for example looked like a bust his first year.

 
shadyridr said:
I dunno. Some guys just have "the look" right away. Darnold seems to have "it" to me. Guys like Trubisky don't. Its obviously subjective. Goff for example looked like a bust his first year.
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It is way too early to determine if the Barkley pick was correct or not.  Lets see how Darnold is playing after 2 seasons.  He is probably going to struggle some as a rookie but could get a lot better.  Barkley is great already but probably the correct move for the Giants would have been to trade down and draft for the OL.  It doesn't matter who is at RB or QB or even WR when the OL is horrific. 

 
DocHolliday said:
It is way too early to determine if the Barkley pick was correct or not.  Lets see how Darnold is playing after 2 seasons.  He is probably going to struggle some as a rookie but could get a lot better.  Barkley is great already but probably the correct move for the Giants would have been to trade down and draft for the OL.  It doesn't matter who is at RB or QB or even WR when the OL is horrific. 
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I agree with this.  It was weird watching Barkley juke, break tackles, and make guys miss, only to end up with a two yard gain because he had five guys surrounding the second he touched the ball.  

 
az_prof said:
I've seen so many bad QB picks in the top five in the past 10 years and those misses really hurt because the contracts are in the 100 Million plus range guaranteed. It was over ten years ago, but I still remember Jamarcus Russell getting six year contract for 68 million and he was so bad and his contract really hurt that team for a long time.
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You are aware that the rookie wage scale has been in place since 2010, right? There is no such thing as a Jamarcus Russell contract any more.

This article breaks down the economics. In a nutshell: a RB on a rookie contract isn't much of a bargain no matter how well he plays, while a superstar QB on one is the most valuable commodity you can have in the NFL.

 
zftcg said:
You are aware that the rookie wage scale has been in place since 2010, right? There is no such thing as a Jamarcus Russell contract any more.

This article breaks down the economics. In a nutshell: a RB on a rookie contract isn't much of a bargain no matter how well he plays, while a superstar QB on one is the most valuable commodity you can have in the NFL.
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The problem is finding a superstar quarterback.  Obviously the superstar quarterback would be drafted over any running back.   But what about Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert?  The Giants scouting department obviously didn't see a superstar quarterback available when they picked Barkley. 

 
JuniorNB said:
The problem is finding a superstar quarterback.  Obviously the superstar quarterback would be drafted over any running back.   But what about Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert?  The Giants scouting department obviously didn't see a superstar quarterback available when they picked Barkley. 
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And the Browns scouting department didn't see one when they traded down and passed on Wentz and Watson.

Look, I don't know what the Giants were thinking, much less if they were correct. But the upside to hitting on Barkley is still pretty low. The upside to hitting on a QB is franchise-altering.

 
zftcg said:
And the Browns scouting department didn't see one when they traded down and passed on Wentz and Watson.

Look, I don't know what the Giants were thinking, much less if they were correct. But the upside to hitting on Barkley is still pretty low. The upside to hitting on a QB is franchise-altering.
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Let's revisit this in a few years. If Darnold ends up being Wentz or Luck or Rodgers, the Giants made a monumental mistake. 

 
JuniorNB said:
I agree with this.  It was weird watching Barkley juke, break tackles, and make guys miss, only to end up with a two yard gain because he had five guys surrounding the second he touched the ball.  
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I rode Le'veon to a championship last year. When he had games where Pittsburgh couldn't get anything going on the ground and he had a ton of catches, I took that as a good sign, because it demonstrated that the offense ran through him no matter how the game was playing out.

Watching Saquon catch 14 the other night, I felt a little of that, but I also felt really worried that it was a sign of just how stagnant the Giants' offense is. I'm not giving up on him by any means, but my eyebrow is raised a bit.

 
JuniorNB said:
Let's revisit this in a few years. If Darnold ends up being Wentz or Luck or Rodgers, the Giants made a monumental mistake. 
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To paraphrase John Maynard Keynes, in a few years we're all fired.

Yes, we'll know definitively in a few years whether it was a mistake or not. But that's a little like judging whether going for it on fourth down was correct based on whether you converted. Given the information available to Gettleman at the time, it was a sub-optimal decision based on a bad process.

 
zftcg said:
To paraphrase John Maynard Keynes, in a few years we're all fired.

Yes, we'll know definitively in a few years whether it was a mistake or not. But that's a little like judging whether going for it on fourth down was correct based on whether you converted. Given the information available to Gettleman at the time, it was a sub-optimal decision based on a bad process.
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Isn't the entire premise based around the fact that it's bad to take a stud running back over a superstar quarterback? The Giants know this, so does every team in the league. The Giants scouting team did not think there was a superstar quarterback available. It's really that simple. So obviously we're not going to know the result for a couple of years. If the information given to Gettleman was that this year's crop of quarterbacks is all Winston-level or less, it was not less than optimal. It was a good decision based on the advice of his scouting Department.

 
JuniorNB said:
Isn't the entire premise based around the fact that it's bad to take a stud running back over a superstar quarterback? The Giants know this, so does every team in the league. The Giants scouting team did not think there was a superstar quarterback available. It's really that simple. So obviously we're not going to know the result for a couple of years. If the information given to Gettleman was that this year's crop of quarterbacks is all Winston-level or less, it was not less than optimal. It was a good decision based on the advice of his scouting Department.
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First of all, Gettleman is in charge of the scouting department. It's not some separate entity that provides him with unimpeachable recommendations. Scouts participate in an evaluation process that he is ultimately responsible for making a decision on.

Second, your statement is a tautology. The fact that they didn't draft a QB means, by definition, that they didn't think there was a superstar available. Well yeah, obviously, but the nature of any decision is that you balance the degree of uncertainty with the potential reward for getting it right. Did Gettleman fully understand the implications of that tradeoff -- specifically that the reward for hitting on a QB was orders of magnitude greater than hitting on a RB? I have no idea, although his post-draft comments give me reason to doubt it.

Look, I don't mean to sound so doctrinaire about it. I wasn't in the room, and maybe they really didn't like any of the QBs. I was mostly pushing back against @az_prof's notion that drafting a first-round QB was risky. My point was that the new CBA took away most of the risk while providing a huge potential reward if you get it right., Meanwhile, drafting a RB that high carries almost none of the potential upside, because it's almost impossible for him to outperform his contract.

 
zftcg said:
You are aware that the rookie wage scale has been in place since 2010, right? There is no such thing as a Jamarcus Russell contract any more.

This article breaks down the economics. In a nutshell: a RB on a rookie contract isn't much of a bargain no matter how well he plays, while a superstar QB on one is the most valuable commodity you can have in the NFL.
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Exactly. It's this simple. Barkley has the 2nd highest guaranteed contract of any NFL RB in the league (and I think 3rd highest ever). If the Giants took a QB, he would be the 16th highest guaranteed QB contract. Big difference from league average QB money to historic RB money. It's just not smart use of resources.

 
Ilov80s said:
Exactly. It's this simple. Barkley has the 2nd highest guaranteed contract of any NFL RB in the league (and I think 3rd highest ever). If the Giants took a QB, he would be the 16th highest guaranteed QB contract. Big difference from league average QB money to historic RB money. It's just not smart use of resources.
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So do you think he was a bad pick based on that?  

 
Ilov80s said:
Exactly. It's this simple. Barkley has the 2nd highest guaranteed contract of any NFL RB in the league (and I think 3rd highest ever). If the Giants took a QB, he would be the 16th highest guaranteed QB contract. Big difference from league average QB money to historic RB money. It's just not smart use of resources.
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It's not that simple. If the Giants drafted the next Jake Locker or Christian Ponder, and missed out on the next Barry Sanders, having the 16th highest paid QB and a couple scrubs in the backfield wouldn't seem like a good use of resources, would it?

 
rockaction said:
So do you think he was a bad pick based on that?  
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Yes. Even if they thought there wasn't a QB worthy of the 2 slot they should have traded back or taken an edge rusher. $31 milltion total contract for Chubb would have been a good value for the position.

JuniorNB said:
It's not that simple. If the Giants drafted the next Jake Locker or Christian Ponder, and missed out on the next Barry Sanders, having the 16th highest paid QB and a couple scrubs in the backfield wouldn't seem like a good use of resources, would it?
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There was no guarantee Barkley was going to be great. We still don't really know for sure, it's been two games. Declaring him anything close to the next Barry Sanders is laughable right now. I don't think a team should take a player they don't like just because of positional value but the upside at QB is so much greater than RB. Also there is no question that in terms of value and cost, it is poor roster contruction to spend the most at a low value position.

 
rockaction said:
So do you think he was a bad pick based on that?  
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Based on what I know, I think they used a bad process. It's possible there's information I'm not aware of that would validate their process. It's also possible the results will be good despite a bad process.

 
@JordanRaanan 

Pat Shurmur says Saquon Barkley is fine. He was moving around well after the game. He got banged up on his late touchdown catch.

 
It was an awkward landing.  the scary part was his initial reaction but he seemed to be ok.  fingers crossed.

 
Saquon Barkley did not need any special treatment this week after taking an awkward fall at the end of the Giants' Week 5 loss to the Panthers.

At the very end of last week's game, Barkley dove into the end zone after hurdling a defender which resulted in an awkward landing. The rookie was slow to get up because of a "random back spasm." ESPN NFL Nation's Jordan Raanan said there is nothing more to it, so Barkley owners can feel comfortable plugging him in as a RB1 against the Eagles on Thursday night.

Source: Jordan Raanan on Twitter 

Oct 9 - 6:11 PM
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Got to agree , this beast is more impressive then adp was his first year, then LT was , E James, Terrell lad is, literally anyone.  It’s only 6 games though but out of the gate he is the best I have seen the last twenty years

 
Saquon Barkley rushed 13 times for 130 yards and a touchdown in the Giants' Week 6 loss to the Eagles, adding nine receptions for 99 additional yards.

On a dismal night for the G-Men, Barkley was a bright spot, putting defenders on skates and routinely looking cannon shot as he hit the hole or found the edge. His score was a 50-yarder where he made a nimble cutback before exploding through the hole untouched. He fell just one yard shy of becoming the first Giants back to tally both 100 yards rushing and receiving in a game. Barkley has a gear few NFL players have, especially running backs. The Giants' line and passing game struggles haven't prevented Barkley from clearing 100 yards from scrimmage in each of his first six games. He's forcing himself into weekly top-three consideration. The burnable Falcons are on deck for Week 7.

Oct 11 - 11:38 PM
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I love his game. The only thing that scares me is how often he leaves his feet to hurdle people or leap. It looks cool. But it seems like in invitation to get hurt.  Still, this guy is one of the best I have ever seen.

 
BassNBrew said:
All you need to know see

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1050591807074168832/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1050591807074168832&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Flive-blogs%2Fphiladelphia-eagles-vs-new-york-giants-2018-10-11
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It's even better to see in action, as opposed to a still!

https://www.giants.com/video/barkley-makes-three-eagles-miss-on-hurdling-run

I don't care which team you root for -- if you don't derive joy from watching Barkley on the field, you ain't no football fan.

Kid is so fun to watch. 

 
Couldn't believe what I was watching. 

The kid is insane.

I had him ranked only behind Gurley out of college in the last god knows how many years... And that MAY have been too low.

 
BassNBrew said:
After tonight, there's no doubt in my mind the Giants made the right pick.  Their game plan should be give it to Barkley every play.  Dude is unstoppable and does #### on the field that we've never seen before.
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They're 1-5. What would their record be with Gallman and a decent QB?

 
rockaction said:
What about an OL, shady? That's their big problem. Saquon is great. He has no OL in front of him. He makes everything happen.  
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Their OL is bad. Nobody is arguing that. But a decent QB can work around a bad oline. Manning has absolutely no mobility and he also seems scared to step into the pocket. The coaches are basically yelling at him for not throwing the ball downfield.

The Vikings and Texans have a bad oline. How are their QBs doing? The Cowboys have a great oline. How is their QB doing?

 
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shadyridr said:
They're 1-5. What would their record be with Gallman and a decent QB?
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In a weird way, their record kind of retroactively validates the pick, since as things stand they're in line to select the top QB in next year's draft, particularly given that most of the other bad teams already have their QBs. Also, it's obviously too early to make any definitive judgments, but none of the rookie QBs taken after him have set the league on fire so far.

I still think selecting him was a bad process, but the results may yet work out for the Giants. Imagine a year from now they have OBJ, Barkley and some blue-chip rookie QB (no idea who the top college guy is this year) forming their long-term core.

 
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zftcg said:
In a weird way, their record kind of retroactively validates the pick, since as things stand they're in line to select the top QB in next year's draft, particularly given that most of the other bad teams already have their QBs. Also, it's obviously too early to make any definitive judgments, but none of the rookie QBs taken after him have set the league on fire so far.

I still think selecting him was a bad process, but the results may yet work out for the Giants.
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I agree. It may work out for them in the long run if they can get a QB in next year's draft but that wasn't their plan. They legitimately thought Eli had 3 years of football left in him and were trying to compete for a Super Bowl THIS year. That's a bad sign for the future of the Giants if their decision makers are making such horrible predictions.

 
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