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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (20 Viewers)

It shocks me that people are shocked. Trump publicly rails for years that he wants an AG to protect him and allow him to break the law with impunity, he nominates Barr, Republican operative gleefully tweets that Barr will shut Mueller investigation down, Mueller investigation stops, Barr repeatedly lies about it.

You knew it was a snake when you picked it up.

I just hope the Russians will let us keep our public lands and space program. The rest of the country and its policy is on its own.

 
Don't Noonan said:
Like you said, Mueller couldn't prove there was obstruction.
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And what we did we learn from the Senate hearing when Sen.Booker talked about how the report revealed Manafort sharing polling data? That Barr DID NOT KNOW who he shared it with. So the AG did not even read the entire report!!!

 
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Don't Noonan said:
Like you said, Mueller couldn't prove there was obstruction.
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Wait, you mean there is a second Mueller Report? 

Because I don't recall the first Mueller Report stating, or implying, that Mueller could not prove there was obstruction.

The Report essentially says that the DOJ, and by extension, Mueller, can not reach a judgment that the president committed crimes, because the president cannot be indicted, and thus has no way of clearing his/her name.

"Third, we considered whether to evaluate the conduct we investigated under the Justice Manual standards governing prosecution and declination decisions, but we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes. The threshold step under the Justice Manual standards is to assess whether a person’s conduct “constitutes a federal offense.” U.S. Dep’t of Justice, Justice Manual § 9-27.220 (2018) (Justice Manual). Fairness concerns counseled against potentially reaching that judgment when no charges can be brought. The ordinary means for an individual to respond to an accusation is through a speedy and public trial, with all the procedural protections that surround a criminal case. An individual who believes he was wrongly accused can use that process to seek to clear his name. In contrast, a prosecutor’s judgment that crimes were committed, but that no charges will be brought, affords no such adversarial opportunity for public name-clearing before an impartial adjudicator."

 
Pretty simple. If Barr lied to Congress, he needs to be locked up. Anyone have a stupid catchy chant for the occasion?

 
lazyike said:
And what we did we learn from the Senate hearing when Sen.Booker talked about how the report revealed Manafort sharing polling data? That Barr DID NOT KNOW who he shared it with. So the AG did not even read the entire report!!!
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Barr looked like the student who just got caught doing a book report in front of the class that he didn't actually read,  by reading the back cover of the book.

 
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Skoo said:
Ummmm, even the GOP has finally admitted Russia hacked our election in favor of Trump.

Do these guys just write all of this hoping no one will point out the obvious lies? Or do they just know their audience will ignore them?
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I think its proven that audience will ignore obvious lies about what Russia did

 
Sinn Fein said:
Wait, you mean there is a second Mueller Report? 

Because I don't recall the first Mueller Report stating, or implying, that Mueller could not prove there was obstruction.

The Report essentially says that the DOJ, and by extension, Mueller, can not reach a judgment that the president committed crimes, because the president cannot be indicted, and thus has no way of clearing his/her name.

"Third, we considered whether to evaluate the conduct we investigated under the Justice Manual standards governing prosecution and declination decisions, but we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes. The threshold step under the Justice Manual standards is to assess whether a person’s conduct “constitutes a federal offense.” U.S. Dep’t of Justice, Justice Manual § 9-27.220 (2018) (Justice Manual). Fairness concerns counseled against potentially reaching that judgment when no charges can be brought. The ordinary means for an individual to respond to an accusation is through a speedy and public trial, with all the procedural protections that surround a criminal case. An individual who believes he was wrongly accused can use that process to seek to clear his name. In contrast, a prosecutor’s judgment that crimes were committed, but that no charges will be brought, affords no such adversarial opportunity for public name-clearing before an impartial adjudicator."
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It seems Noonan, like Barr and Graham, really haven't read the report (or are lying)

 
Do most of us know how our legal system works? A prosecutors job is not to 100% prove anything. Their job is to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime was done by the person that was investigated. The juries job is to hand down a verdict and the judges job is to interpret the law and hand down the sentence. 

Mueller’s job was to find evidence. Which he found lots of and reported on it accordingly. Congress, in this respect, is the judge. Congress is being obstructed against by someone who works for the people. Congress’ job, in a bit of irony, is to remove Barr, or he should have refused himself, and hand down a verdict with the evidence provided. That system is being damaged by the actions of the main prosecutor who came into the game late. 

Barr needs to resign, get disbarred, and prosecuted himself based on the lies/fabrication of his testimony to Congress as well as his actions against the people. 

 
Don't Noonan said:
:fishing:
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No I have to say it’s pretty accurate. On at least 3 occasions now in the last 2 days, you have made statements that are directly contradicted by the report- it’s not a question of interpretation. What you wrote is the exact opposite of what was written by Mueller. Which means you are either making stuff up, or you haven’t read the report and are relying on pro-Trump talking heads (who are making stuff up.) I am guessing the latter, right? 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
From the one holding up the world, that is a defined endpoint.  You are not going to just jump into the middle of the tower of turtles and pick a direction.  What are you, some sort of agitator?
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The chicken might be since it's only turtles all the way down after the chicken... 

 
msommer said:
The chicken might be since it's only turtles all the way down after the chicken... 
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You're just confusing the issue. Henry and I were talking about the classic turtle tower conundrum, not this Johnny-come-lately chicken scenario.  If you are not going to take this matter seriously I wish you would just take your chicken and teach it to sit on the back of an iguana instead. Hippie.

 
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timschochet said:
No I have to say it’s pretty accurate. On at least 3 occasions now in the last 2 days, you have made statements that are directly contradicted by the report- it’s not a question of interpretation. What you wrote is the exact opposite of what was written by Mueller. Which means you are either making stuff up, or you haven’t read the report and are relying on pro-Trump talking heads (who are making stuff up.) I am guessing the latter, right? 
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I have not contradicted the report at all.  I will let you keep guessing though.

 
Skoo said:
Ummmm, even the GOP has finally admitted Russia hacked our election in favor of Trump.

Do these guys just write all of this hoping no one will point out the obvious lies? Or do they just know their audience will ignore them?
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The election wasn't "hacked". 

 
Annie Donaldson's Notes

The notes, scribbled rapidly on a legal pad, captured the fear inside the White House when President Trump raged over the Russia investigation and decreed he was firing the FBI director who led it: “Is this the beginning of the end?”

The angst-filled entry is part of a shorthand diary that chronicled the chaotic days in Trump’s West Wing, a trove that the special counsel report cited more than 65 times as part of the evidence that the president sought to blunt a criminal investigation bearing down on him.

The public airing of the notes — which document then-White House counsel Donald McGahn’s contemporaneous account of events and his fear that the president was engaged in legally risky conduct — has infuriated Trump.

“Watch out for people that take so-called ‘notes,’ when the notes never existed until needed,” Trump tweeted a day after the release of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s report.

The scribe keeping track of the president’s actions was Annie Donaldson, McGahn’s chief of staff, a loyal and low-profile conservative lawyer who figures in the Mueller report as one of the most important narrators of internal White House turmoil.

Her daily habit of documenting conversations and meetings provided the special counsel’s office with its version of the Nixon White House tapes: a running account of the president’s actions, albeit in sentence fragments and concise descriptions.

Among the episodes memorialized in Donaldson’s notes and memos: the president’s outrage when FBI Director James B. Comey confirmed the existence of the investigation into possible ties between Russia and the Trump campaign, Trump’s efforts to pressure Attorney General Jeff Sessions not to recuse himself from overseeing the probe and his push to get Mueller disqualified and removed as the special counsel.

The Harvard Law School graduate’s unflinching words — “Just in the middle of another Russia Fiasco,” she wrote on March 2, 2017 — have cast the die-hard Republican in an unfamiliar role: as a truth teller heralded by Trump’s foes for providing what they view as proof he is unfit for office.

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) has already signaled that he intends to subpoena Donaldson as a critical witness.

...

As McGahn’s chief of staff, Donaldson was charged with managing 30 to 40 lawyers in the counsel’s office, getting White House policies legally vetted, keeping judicial nominations on track and working with McGahn on Trump’s top priorities.

Along the way, she did what virtually all lawyers consider a necessity: kept a record of decisions, disputes, and tasks left to do. Nearly every day, when McGahn emerged from the Oval Office or other West Wing meetings, she would take notes as he recalled significant discussions with the president and his team, according to people familiar with her role.

...

In an entry on March 21, 2017, Donaldson recounts how Trump told McGahn he was furious with the testimony that Comey gave to Congress about the Russia probe the day before, sounding as if he might fire him on the spot. The president felt betrayed that Comey had failed to do as Trump had asked: to tell the public that he was not personally under investigation. “beside himself,” she wrote of the president. “getting hotter and hotter, get rid?”

McGahn was so concerned that Comey’s firing was imminent that the counsel’s office drafted a memo analyzing the president’s legal authority to do so, according to the report.

...At one point, McGahn warned the president that some of the actions he took — such as asking Comey to let go of his investigation of Flynn — could make him vulnerable to accusations of obstruction of justice. “biggest exposure . . . other contacts . . . calls . . . ask re: Flynn,” Donaldson wrote that day. ...
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Don't Noonan said:
timschochet said:
No I have to say it’s pretty accurate. On at least 3 occasions now in the last 2 days, you have made statements that are directly contradicted by the report- it’s not a question of interpretation. What you wrote is the exact opposite of what was written by Mueller. Which means you are either making stuff up, or you haven’t read the report and are relying on pro-Trump talking heads (who are making stuff up.) I am guessing the latter, right? 
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 I have not contradicted the report at all.  I will let you keep guessing though.
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I disagree with both of you. You’ve said things inconsistent with the report, but that doesn’t mean you haven’t read it. It means you haven’t memorized it. It’s very easy to read something once and not remember all of it, especially something as long and dense as the Mueller report. It’s also easy to read commentary about the report and then forget which tidbits came from the report and which came from the commentary. It’s also easy to read a legal document and not completely understand all of its implications.

 
Don't Noonan said:
It didn't make any difference in the results.  HTH
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At approximately 2:40 a.m. on November 9, 2016, news reports stated that candidate Clinton had called President-Elect Trump to concede. At ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ wrote to Dmitriev, “Putin has won.”
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Ditkaless Wonders said:
From the one holding up the world, that is a defined endpoint.  You are not going to just jump into the middle of the tower of turtles and pick a direction.  What are you, some sort of agitator?
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How dare you, sir.

Wait, my bad.  I thought you were asking if I'm an alligator.  Anyway, see you later.

 
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