Report: Omicron is much more contagious - Discussion on severity (2 Viewers)

[Snotbubbles]

You aren't going to answer my question?  Knowing status helps people take precautions within the home if necessary....

Those precautions can be taken without a test.  And #3 in the FL SG's response covers all those people who can't get vaccinated or can't separate.

 

[(HULK)]

Re: Hospitals. Many of us have realized for a while that hospital capacity, i.e. staffed beds, is the critical metric to measure how the pandemic is going and what response is needed at the time. As a result I've been monitoring hospital capacity in my region and county on a pretty frequent basis. NY State does a decent job providing data, they make available a spreadsheet that has total staffed beds available and used, total ICU beds available and used, intubated patients, as well as new admissions and discharges.

In my region and county, do you want to take a guess at how many staffed beds were added in the past 2 years? Zero. No capacity added. None. During a pandemic.

I'm sorry, but these hospital administrations need to be taken to task. The model of having actuaries/accountants projecting the number of beds needed and then staffing exactly to that projection with a razor thin cushion built-in in order to maximize profit needs to be revisited during a freaking pandemic. The entire for-profit, private health insurance tied to employment system needs to be revisited, but in the short term we shouldn't be accepting of this model for hospitals.

"The hospitals are being overrun!" Really? 2 years in to this, nothing done to address hospital capacity, and that's what we should accept? The healthcare workers staffing these hospitals deserve better.

In a for profit healthcare model, you won't have a surplus of capacity because then you'd be wasting money and not honoring your commitment to your shareholders.

 

[BassNBrew]

Ah...so Harvard educated doctor doesn't know what he's talking about.  Let's hear what The Commish thinks about how to stop the spread of COVID...

My Havard educated doctor thinks he doesn't know what he's talking about.

You know what they call the dumbest guy to graduated Harvard med school...Doctor.

 

[BassNBrew]

remember what Joe said

The Trump Fiasco: The failure to test swiftly and broadly led to the failure to get the virus under control.. It is unacceptable that with cases surging in some parts of the country and Americans urged to go back to work in others, we still do not have the basic capacity in testing and contact tracing we need to sustainably manage this virus. In Arizona, this past week, Americans with COVID-19 have had to wait in baking hot cars in miles-long lines for a test, and those were the lucky ones who had an appointment. In March, Donald Trump claimed that every American who wanted a test could get one. It was a lie then. It’s still a lie.

The Biden Plan: 

Stand up a Pandemic Testing Board to massively surge a nationwide campaign and guarantee regular, reliable, and free access to testing for all, including every worker called back on the job .

Double the number of drive-through testing sites and increase the numbers until there are no more lines.

Build a national contact tracing workforce, starting by hiring at least 100,000 Americans and equipping sorely under-resourced public health departments with the resources they need to spot and stop outbreaks.   

Yup...swing and a miss for Joe.  I suspect this costs him his job as it did Trump.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

The "testing, testing, testing" mantra needs to get a serious plan behind it, not just words.

People need to be able to get a test on the spot. Positive or negative result right away. If positive, quarantine and contact tracing. That means you tell them everyone you've come into contact with. Then they test. Continue this process.

The antibody test to show if you have had it and resolved it. This should come with a certificate that proves you've had the antibody test.

Other thoughts? Just repeating the word "testing" over and over again isn't a plan.

This should have happened in April 2020, and a bunch of us were calling for something very much like this back then.  

Realistically, though, this isn't going to happen.  TBH, I am not going to take a test every morning before leaving my house if I feel okay, and my guess that I represent a fairly large majority.  If the median person can't be bothered to get a booster shot, they're certainly not going to bother with daily testing.  (But it would be great to give folks this option, which they absolutely do not currently have given how difficult it is to find at-home tests and how expensive they are).

My take on testing from April 2020 from the FFA thread. Interesting to see how much and how little has changed since then.

 

[Biff84]

Daily testing is not feasible.  330M tests a day.  2.3B a week.  120T a year.  How much do the tests cost?  Multiply that by 120T.  

Part of the issue is that tests have been developed for individual use. Rather kits should be purchased in bulk by employers. Come into work, grab a swab and some reagent and test yourself before starting the shift.

I don’t think daily is needed in every setting all the time. Maybe during normal spread twice weekly/every 3 days then increase to every other shift during a time of high transmission and daily with a close contact or outbreak.

 

[Terminalxylem]

No reason to rely on personal data, we have real data which shows it has a flu-like death rate.  It is an ideal variant to build herd immunity.  

Roughly. But it has a level of contagion closer to measles. Not ideal, as evidenced by occupancy of healthcare facilities across the country.

 

[Terminalxylem]

How?  It's no secret that the boomer generation is currently retiring in larger numbers than they can be replaced, just due to population levels.  Management can't do anything to stop that.  Older workers, especially in health care, are experiencing burnout and accelerating their planned retirements.  Also not a secret and not something management can particularly prevent.  It's also no secret that many unvaxxed patients and their families are just plain treating health care workers poorly, leading to additional burnout.  Again, not something management can prevent.

Should they be paying more?  Maybe the government should be funding ER and ICU care more?

What, specifically, should management be doing to manage staff and resources better that doesn't involve government funding?

Super obnoxious statement, even by the (low) standards I expect from his posts.

We've had a shortage of primary care providers for years, an aging, unhealthy population and healthcare infrastructure that's been pummeled by covid for nearly two years. But surely we can conjure up highly trained reinforcements at the drop of a hat? Or just build a bunch of hospitals staffed by robots?

 

[The Commish]

Those precautions can be taken without a test.  And #3 in the FL SG's response covers all those people who can't get vaccinated or can't separate.

Well, yeah.  They can.  If one wants to ship their loved ones off to hotel rooms until this blows over "just in case", that's certainly their prerogative.    If one wants to isolate their loved ones to a room in their house until this blows over "just in case" that is also their prerogative.  I'd rather test and act when it seems appropriate.  And #3 actually requires those people who can't get vaccinated to catch the virus otherwise they'd be giving therapeutics to those who don't have the virus, which by your estimation seems completely illogical and unnecessary.  And even then, there's the issue with those people being severely behind the eight ball and no guarantee that things like antibodies will help them....at a 40-50% clip if we are to believe the research that is beginning to come out on that subject.

I'll easily take the testing option over these every single time, but I do acknowledge these are options  

 

[SoBeDad]

Yup...swing and a miss for Joe.  I suspect this costs him his job as it did Trump.

Probably not. 2 years from now is a long time. Afghanistan is already off the radar for most people.  Covid will be over by then. The economy and his health are more likely to be factors in whether Joe wins or even runs again.

 

[BassNBrew]

Probably not. 2 years from now is a long time. Afghanistan is already off the radar for most people.  Covid will be over by then. The economy and his health are more likely to be factors in whether Joe wins or even runs again.

From your lips to God's ears hopefully

 

[Terminalxylem]

This seems normal to me.  I'm a grown adult, and I thought it felt weird to go to the grocery store without a mask the first couple of times.  I'm sure he'll readjust.

Yep, in most situations kids are better able to adapt than adults. While I understand a desire to keep them in school and promote normal socialization, a lot of talk of irreparable harm to children is overblown.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

My take on testing from April 2020 from the FFA thread. Interesting to see how much and how little has changed since then.

Oh, I totally believed you.  This was a massive failure and I remember a bunch of folks here and elsewhere saying so at the time.

I should add that while I wouldn't bother with daily testing right now, I absolutely would have during the pre-vaccine era.  This would have been an extremely helpful tool for those of us who just wanted to get to vaccination in one piece.

 

[jobarules]

Yep, in most situations kids are better able to adapt than adults. While I understand a desire to keep them in school and promote normal socialization, a lot of talk of irreparable harm to children is overblown.

You sure about that?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna10872

 

[Terminalxylem]

You sure about that?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna10872

Yes.

Get back to me in ten years, and we'll see if the "slight" lag makes a difference to those kids. Then compare whatever deficit remains, if any, to the millions dead and disabled from covid.

 

[Gopher State]

A record one day total of one million new COVID cases reported on Monday.  Several bar/food establishments in my area are closed due to illness to the staff.  On talk radio today they stated that this latest outbreak will cause a spike in inflation as people don’t travel, eat out, etc., and spend more money on other goods, cook at home etc, waiting for Biden to address this, or wait he passed it on to the states to handle.  Anyway, he has more important things to do such as working on his speech on 1/6 for tomorrow night.

 

[SoBeDad]

Based on mask wearing in Publix and TJs many people in my area are treating the omicron surge differently than the Delta surge which peaked in Aug-Sep 2021. Mask wearing is about 50% now, it was over 75% then. I guess factors are more people are vaxxed and boosted, and omicron appears to be less serious.  The positive test rate in Miami is 35% and people close to me, my triple-vaxxed  daughter and unvaxxed stepson, contracted Covid per a rapid test.  She had 2 days of a terrible sore throat, he had more flu-like symptoms including fever. I'm guessing omicron.

It hasn't stopped tourists from coming to Miami, mostly from up north, including AOC, and many from Europe. Hospital numbers are still surging, but cases are milder overall. The hospital cases are still mostly an epidemic of the unvaxxed.

Correction: mask wearing has increased to about 80% at Publix & TJs. Why not decrease your risk of contracting omicron?

 

[tonydead]

A record one day total of one million new COVID cases reported on Monday.  Several bar/food establishments in my area are closed due to illness to the staff.  On talk radio today they stated that this latest outbreak will cause a spike in inflation as people don’t travel, eat out, etc., and spend more money on other goods, cook at home etc, waiting for Biden to address this, or wait he passed it on to the states to handle.  Anyway, he has more important things to do such as working on his speech on 1/6 for tomorrow night.

On the bright side, nobody takes this fool seriously anymore.  Doesn't matter what he says in a speech, he's propped up like Weekend at Bernie's, he's already a lame duck. 

 

[unckeyherb]

Wife positive this morning.  This morning I went to the urgent care that tested her yesterday, to get tested.  Was informed that they are not a testing site.  Even though they tested her 10 hours prior.  
 

called and browsed about 35-40 testing facilities (Walgreens, CVS, independents) and no availability to be tested from now to 10 days out.  

 

[Doug B]

Wife positive this morning.  This morning I went to the urgent care that tested her yesterday, to get tested.  Was informed that they are not a testing site.  Even though they tested her 10 hours prior.  

Hate to propose this, but ... desperate times and all: You may have to feign symptoms. The urgent care center may have a policy not to test asymptomatics.

The pharmacy-based testing sites around the N.O. area are also backed up a week. We had luck this morning going to a public mass testing site. Two hours from leaving our house to the time we got back. Not great, but not bad all things considered. Have you checked your state's health department -- is this link of any help?

 

[jobarules]

Yes.

Get back to me in ten years, and we'll see if the "slight" lag makes a difference to those kids. Then compare whatever deficit remains, if any, to the millions dead and disabled from covid.

Unbelievable. Move those goal posts. It's amazing you can see 10 years into the future

 

[jobarules]

Wife positive this morning.  This morning I went to the urgent care that tested her yesterday, to get tested.  Was informed that they are not a testing site.  Even though they tested her 10 hours prior.  
 

called and browsed about 35-40 testing facilities (Walgreens, CVS, independents) and no availability to be tested from now to 10 days out.  

My question is why get tested? You can't go anywhere for 5 days anyway.

 

[Shula-holic]

Yep, in most situations kids are better able to adapt than adults. While I understand a desire to keep them in school and promote normal socialization, a lot of talk of irreparable harm to children is overblown.

After two years, I know lots of parents who are having issues with their children and mental health issues due to all the social changes.  There was a thread in the FFA over this.  

 

[dkp993]

Wife positive this morning.  This morning I went to the urgent care that tested her yesterday, to get tested.  Was informed that they are not a testing site.  Even though they tested her 10 hours prior.  
 

called and browsed about 35-40 testing facilities (Walgreens, CVS, independents) and no availability to be tested from now to 10 days out.  

All the best to your wife.  
 

My 7yr old daughter just tested positive this afternoon.  Has a fever and body aches.  Wife and I are basically on a count down watch for ourselves now.  

 

[Terminalxylem]

After two years, I know lots of parents who are having issues with their children and mental health issues due to all the social changes.  There was a thread in the FFA over this.  

I don't doubt it. And I'm sure it's difficult for those families.

What I'm disputing is the potential for long term damage, and whether that risk is worth it to mitigate a pandemic.

 

[jobarules]

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n521?int_source=trendmd&int_medium=cpc&int_campaign=usage-042019

 

[jobarules]

I don't doubt it. And I'm sure it's difficult for those families.

What I'm disputing is the potential for long term damage, and whether that risk is worth it to mitigate a pandemic.

Awful take

For some children education is their only way out of poverty; for others school offers a safe haven away from a dangerous or chaotic home life. Learning loss,2 reduced social interaction, isolation, reduced physical activity,3 increased mental health problems,34 and potential for increased abuse, exploitation, and neglect5 have all been associated with school closures. Reduced future income6 and life expectancy7 are associated with less education. Children with special educational needs or who are already disadvantaged are at increased risk of harm.3 The 2019 report of the children’s commissioner for England8 estimated that 2.3 million children in England were living in unsafe home environments with domestic violence, drug or alcohol abuse, or severe mental problems among parents. These long term harms are likely to be magnified by further school closures.3

 

[Battersbox]

Yes.

Get back to me in ten years, and we'll see if the "slight" lag makes a difference to those kids. Then compare whatever deficit remains, if any, to the millions dead and disabled from covid.

Ironically, your continued dismissiveness about kids and the burdens they've suffered due to our collective pandemic response actually helps me better understand when people get upset about hearing how the pandemic is 'over' for individuals.

It's two sides of the same coin: those working in healthcare are usually more laser focused on the immediate effects of hospitalizations and sickness to pay much attention to the macro repercussions of what's happening with everything outside of direct healthcare. On the other hand, the tens of millions of people who have not been meaningfully sick nor have had people close to them meaningfully sick can also be dismissive of what those working on the front lines are experiencing. Both camps would likely benefit by taking a wider view. 

 

[the rover]

weird that antivaxxers are so concerned about unknown long term effects of vaccines or slight interruptions in school but can't fathom that covid may have long term effects.

 

[Shula-holic]

weird that antivaxxers are so concerned about unknown long term effects of vaccines or slight interruptions in school but can't fathom that covid may have long term effects.

I didn't realize we had to be an antivaxxer to be concerned about our kids or their generation

 

[Terminalxylem]

Ironically, your continued dismissiveness about kids and the burdens they've suffered due to our collective pandemic response actually helps me better understand when people get upset about hearing how the pandemic is 'over' for individuals.

It's two sides of the same coin: those working in healthcare are usually more laser focused on the immediate effects of hospitalizations and sickness to pay much attention to the macro repercussions of what's happening with everything outside of direct healthcare. On the other hand, the tens of millions of people who have not been meaningfully sick nor have had people close to them meaningfully sick can also be dismissive of what those working on the front lines are experiencing. Both camps would likely benefit by taking a wider view. 

Sure. I'm not claiming the pandemic hasn't been harmful to kids. It's been harmful to nearly everyone. I'm arguing two things:

1. Some harm to children will need to occur for the collective benefit of society, as part of pandemic mitigation.

2. Kids tend to be far more resilient than (some) adults give them credit. 

I don't have kids, but most of my friends do. I babysit a few of them, and certainly care about their well-being. I know that's not the same as being a parent; nonetheless, I'm not oblivious to their plight.

I also believe the best way to minimize harm to all of us is keeping our healthcare infrastructure intact. Kids will suffer a lot more from losing loved ones than wearing masks/learning remotely while surges are occurring.

Possibly of note: My friends with children who also work in healthcare complain far more about vaccine hesitancy than their kids' suffering. They all seem to be handling things pretty well though.

 

[homer35h]

Once you ask the Government for help you already  lost. I also think that if Covid went away today, some would be pissed. To big of a grift.

 

[Max Power]

Peak Omicron is going to get ugly.

My kids school is in a panic right now to find substitute teachers after a quarter of the staff called out this morning.

Local base hospital is now only offering ER services and has asked the red cross for volunteer due to staff shortages. 

The State set new records for new cases and positivity rates 5 days in a row now. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

weird that antivaxxers are so concerned about unknown long term effects of vaccines or slight interruptions in school but can't fathom that covid may have long term effects.

Hi.  I'm very strongly in favor of vaccination.  Also, I don't have any school-aged kids so it doesn't make any difference in my life whether schools are open or closed.  No dog in this fight whatsoever.

"Bars open, schools closed" is an unacceptable policy in 2022.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I didn't realize we had to be an antivaxxer to be concerned about our kids or their generation

But remember, we're the selfish ones.  

 

[Tecumseh]

My mother is a hospital administrator and has been for over 20yrs. In the years leading up to COVID there were (still are) massive nursing shortages.  It’s a been a long running issue that’s only been exaggerated due to the pandemic. The irony is (and has been for a very long time) is that nursing school is very tough to get into and many only allow a certain number in each quarter. I personally know 5 smart, hard working compassionate people who prior to the pandemic meet all the schooling requirements yet couldn’t get into the schools due to the numbers restrictions.   It’s an artificial bottleneck that had been created for some reason.  

It's not an artificial bottleneck. There are limits to the number of qualified instructors, as well as clinical sites available to nursing students.

 

[GoBirds]

I didn't realize we had to be an antivaxxer to be concerned about our kids or their generation

Being rational is frowned upon, please stop. 

 

[quick-hands]

Peek Omicron is going to get ugly.

My kids school is in a panic right now to find substitute teachers after a quarter of the staff called out this morning.

Local base hospital is now only offering ER services and has asked the red cross for volunteer due to staff shortages. 

The State set new records for new cases and positivity rates 5 days in a row now. 

Where is this Max?

 

[GoBirds]

Peek Omicron is going to get ugly.

My kids school is in a panic right now to find substitute teachers after a quarter of the staff called out this morning.

Local base hospital is now only offering ER services and has asked the red cross for volunteer due to staff shortages. 

The State set new records for new cases and positivity rates 5 days in a row now. 

Isn’t the peak supposed to be the next week or so? We are in same boat here, pediatrician email says everywhere is full and stay home unless severe symptoms. No room to see anyone. No tests available anywhere, complete dysfunctional mess. 

 

[Snotbubbles]

My Havard educated doctor thinks he doesn't know what he's talking about.

You know what they call the dumbest guy to graduated Harvard med school...Doctor.

Which medical school did Commish graduate from?

 

[Stealthycat]

Yup...swing and a miss for Joe.  I suspect this costs him his job as it did Trump.

covid was weaponized

it worked - Democrats won the 2020 election in a big part because of covid

I think Democrats thought covid would play out like flu and go away but it hasn't. All the stuff said will be used and remembered in 2023 going into the 2024 elections ... more deaths under Biden, less health care/testing, lies on mandates and forcing people to do what the Fed Govt tells them, trillions spent, .... what a disaster and because of the way they weaponize it in 2020, it'll be used the same against them in 2024

 

[Max Power]

Where is this Max?

Wake Co. NC

 

[quick-hands]

Which medical school did Commish graduate from?

Dr. Commish  

 

[Snotbubbles]

Well, yeah.  They can.  If one wants to ship their loved ones off to hotel rooms until this blows over "just in case", that's certainly their prerogative.    If one wants to isolate their loved ones to a room in their house until this blows over "just in case" that is also their prerogative.  I'd rather test and act when it seems appropriate.  And #3 actually requires those people who can't get vaccinated to catch the virus otherwise they'd be giving therapeutics to those who don't have the virus, which by your estimation seems completely illogical and unnecessary.  And even then, there's the issue with those people being severely behind the eight ball and no guarantee that things like antibodies will help them....at a 40-50% clip if we are to believe the research that is beginning to come out on that subject.

I'll easily take the testing option over these every single time, but I do acknowledge these are options  

Guess masks don't work anymore.  And yes, therapeutics are for situations where a person contracts covid.  You have so many other steps to take that don't involve getting a test 3x a week, especially when there is a shortage of them.  They should be used, as the FL Surgeon General said to improve outcomes for patients who present symptoms.

 

[quick-hands]

covid was weaponized

it worked - Democrats won the 2020 election in a big part because of covid

I think Democrats thought covid would play out like flu and go away but it hasn't. All the stuff said will be used and remembered in 2023 going into the 2024 elections ... more deaths under Biden, less health care/testing, lies on mandates and forcing people to do what the Fed Govt tells them, trillions spent, .... what a disaster and because of the way they weaponize it in 2020, it'll be used the same against them in 2024

Plus how some wanted to give Biden credit for Trump's plans.    Now less than a year later he lost control of the things he could control.   

 

[Stealthycat]

Plus how some wanted to give Biden credit for Trump's plans.    Now less than a year later he lost control of the things he could control.   

what could have happened was the Democrats rallying and saying look, its a virus, Fed Govt can't stop it but we can put some things in place to help and support the USA in a great time of need

had that happened, right now they could say look, its a virus, Fed Govt can't stop it but we can put some things in place to help and support the USA in a great time of need

instead, they said leadership failure, step down because of deaths, we promise if we win we'll beat this virus, easy testing for everyone ........... and they've failed, failed, and more failed and they cannot get out of that hole now

I'm curious to see how long people remember this disaster

 

[Max Power]

Isn’t the peak supposed to be the next week or so? We are in same boat here, pediatrician email says everywhere is full and stay home unless severe symptoms. No room to see anyone. No tests available anywhere, complete dysfunctional mess. 

Fauci said the peak will likely be the third week of January. It might be sooner at this rate.  They were saying some parts of the country haven't even really been hit with it yet. 

The no available testing is killing us too. 3-6 day waits from all the people I talk to.

 

[KarmaPolice]

covid was weaponized

it worked - Democrats won the 2020 election in a big part because of covid

I think Democrats thought covid would play out like flu and go away but it hasn't. All the stuff said will be used and remembered in 2023 going into the 2024 elections ... more deaths under Biden, less health care/testing, lies on mandates and forcing people to do what the Fed Govt tells them, trillions spent, .... what a disaster and because of the way they weaponize it in 2020, it'll be used the same against them in 2024

Covid was politicized 

IMO a big reason for the Dems winning the 2020 election is because the person in the WH contributed bigly to covid being politicized.  

It will be interesting to see where we are at with covid and how that plays out in the next presidential election.  I've been surprised a bit by Biden's low grades due to covid, but after thinking about it I guess that would depend on how much blame you put on people not getting vaccinated vs. the government response.   I know where I place most of the blame, but fully get the wide array of opinions there.  

 

[quick-hands]

Fauci said the peak will likely be the third week of January. It might be sooner at this rate.  They were saying some parts of the country haven't even really been hit with it yet. 

The no available testing is killing us too. 3-6 day waits from all the people I talk to.

By that time you probably can figure it out.     Yep I'm sick.....nope not sick.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Guess masks don't work anymore.  And yes, therapeutics are for situations where a person contracts covid.  You have so many other steps to take that don't involve getting a test 3x a week, especially when there is a shortage of them.  They should be used, as the FL Surgeon General said to improve outcomes for patients who present symptoms.

My complaint, and from what I gather, a decent amount of others as well, is that the bolded shouldn't be the case after 2 years.   Like others have said, because of the asymptomatic spread, testing is a good tool to have in the toolbox.   It 100% would change how I react, if I would be by certain, people, etc..