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College Sports Ruined - Name, Image, Likeness (1 Viewer)

Oscar Tshiebwe of Kentucky, who I'm told is pretty good at basketball, will be a good test case. His reps believe he'll pull in around $2 million in deals if he returns for his senior season.
I've read that Hunter Dickinson's decision to stay at Michigan was influenced by the NILs.  He'd be a second round pick at best.  With NILs, he can stay in school, have another year of college hoops, and potentially improve his draft stock.  Now, if some other school lures away Houstan and Diabate with NILs, I'll hate the darn things.

 
Yeah, players used to transfer because they didn’t play. Now it’s basically free agency. They’re transferring because schools are offering them more money, there’s a difference. 


Are they?

Baker, Burrow, Jameson all transferred for playing time.

What guys transferred for money?  I honestly haven't been following it that closely.

 
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I've read that Hunter Dickinson's decision to stay at Michigan was influenced by the NILs.  He'd be a second round pick at best.  With NILs, he can stay in school, have another year of college hoops, and potentially improve his draft stock.  Now, if some other school lures away Houstan and Diabate with NILs, I'll hate the darn things.
Can’t believe he didn’t stay for the upgrades in the biology department.  

 
I've read that Hunter Dickinson's decision to stay at Michigan was influenced by the NILs.  He'd be a second round pick at best.  With NILs, he can stay in school, have another year of college hoops, and potentially improve his draft stock.  Now, if some other school lures away Houstan and Diabate with NILs, I'll hate the darn things.
Dickenson has been vocal about Michigan’s NIL program not being on the same level as other schools, so he could have transferred as well. Then you’d really hate the darn thing 

 
A great article about this.

Basically what we have are college programs with no salary cap. The NCAA as we know it is over.  

For me, college sports is ruined forever. Just my opinion. 
I think this will settle down after a while.  For the simple reason of who is paying for all these deals and what do they gain in the long term?  I mean money is money and paying some wide receiver in Clemson isnt moving the needle on somebodys business.

 
I think this will settle down after a while.  For the simple reason of who is paying for all these deals and what do they gain in the long term?  I mean money is money and paying some wide receiver in Clemson isnt moving the needle on somebodys business.
We really don't know how the talent market will evolve because it's not a rational one. The buyers are people with disposable wealth who want something of no material benefit (success on the field for their schools).

Lots of folks on this board may understand those buyers but I'm not one of them. But I think a time will come when the market tops out. It may even be the boosters themselves who will clamor for regulation to save themselves from themselves (sort of like the way pro sports owners hate completely free markets).

 
Yeah, these 6 figure "NIL deals" (like the one Nijel Pack signed with Miami) have nothing to do with the businesses or their proprietor getting their money's worth.

It's a vanity project for them. They just want to be able to say they bought the guy that got their team a conference title, a final 4, etc.

I don't see it stopping unless the NCAA finds a way to Crack down that will actually hold up in court (seems like they're trying to draft some better language, but I'm skeptical. Seems like there are some obvious loopholes they won't be able to close)

 
Getting these guys to recoup the billions of dollars that schools rake in is only fair, even if it is imperfect and takes some of the joy out of it. There's no way adults participating in a billion-dollar business should not be getting paid commensurately. 

Forget college sports being ruined; the old way ruined the concept of labor and capital to a serious degree. 


Do men's NCAA swimmers work less hard?  Do women's college basketball players deserve lower pay than men for the same work?

No dog in the fight as I laugh at these fools paying to be able to say my team won an championship in a sport where most of the games are double digit blow out crapfests.

 
Michigan brings in a transfer PG for depth, their PG hits the transfer portal the next day.  Emoni Bates was Michigan States big recruit last year and top 5 in the country, flips to Memphis last second, now is looking to transfer to Michigan.

Just have to get used to the new game.

 
@max_olson

Back on Feb. 1, I wrote that we were on pace for 2,000 scholarship CFB players and 3,000 total players entering the portal in a 12-month period. Post-deadline update: 1,991 scholarship players and 2,883 total have entered in the past 9 months.

6:35 AM · May 4, 2022

@max_olson

If you're curious what effect the one-time transfer deadline had: 401 scholarship FBS players and 662 total players have entered the portal since April 1.

6:37 AM · May 4, 2022

 
Do men's NCAA swimmers work less hard?  Do women's college basketball players deserve lower pay than men for the same work?

No dog in the fight as I laugh at these fools paying to be able to say my team won an championship in a sport where most of the games are double digit blow out crapfests.
Alabama fans passionately fight for the right to say they won a National title in like, 1942, that nobody else credits them with. There are dozens of programs that do that. It’s a bat#### insane sport. 

 
Capella said:
Alabama fans passionately fight for the right to say they won a National title in like, 1942, that nobody else credits them with. There are dozens of programs that do that. It’s a bat#### insane sport. 


Totally agree.

I know we won't agree on this, but I think it's a crappy product too.  Can't believe people are paying kids 6 figures to beat up on UAB, Charleston Southern, and Vandy by 50 points.

 
Totally agree.

I know we won't agree on this, but I think it's a crappy product too.  Can't believe people are paying kids 6 figures to beat up on UAB, Charleston Southern, and Vandy by 50 points.
No, I totally agree lol. The product sucks, the people leeching off the players suck, the bowls suck, the playoff sucks but I still watch because I grew up with it. But, it’s certainly an inferior product to any professional sport on the field. 
 

I still love the bands, the stadiums and the uniforms. 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Transfer rule is great.  I can't believe so many people hate it.  These kids get one shot at the thing they've banked their whole life on, would be stupid to ruin it because at age 18 they happened to pick a place where they end up stuck behind another great player.

Baker, Burrow, Jameson Williams.  Imagine if we'd never even heard of these guys because the languished away behind other superb talent.
Boise St hoops just got two 4 star guys.  I think this is a first on 4 stars.  One was from texas Tech that got buried after a coaching change and the coach brought in numerous players he had coached before.

 
roadkill1292 said:
We really don't know how the talent market will evolve because it's not a rational one. The buyers are people with disposable wealth who want something of no material benefit (success on the field for their schools).

Lots of folks on this board may understand those buyers but I'm not one of them. But I think a time will come when the market tops out. It may even be the boosters themselves who will clamor for regulation to save themselves from themselves (sort of like the way pro sports owners hate completely free markets).
Even the people with "disposable wealth" are going to get tired of paying out of pocket especially if said school is winning anything of note

 
Even the people with "disposable wealth" are going to get tired of paying out of pocket especially if said school is winning anything of note
Guys…this has been going on for years. We just know about it now. Who do you think the bagmen were? 

 
I remember years ago saying how prevalent this was and somebody here got so offended and said no way are people paying players and I’m an idiot etc. I was dumbfounded that somebody could honestly believe players weren’t getting paid. I told them they must believe in Santa. Wish I remembered who it was. 

 
I remember years ago saying how prevalent this was and somebody here got so offended and said no way are people paying players and I’m an idiot etc. I was dumbfounded that somebody could honestly believe players weren’t getting paid. I told them they must believe in Santa. Wish I remembered who it was. 


Yeah, even if the 6 or 7 figure bogus "NIL deals" are made illegal again, it will all just go back under the table. 

The real issue here is the no sit out transfer. That's whats allowing the big programs to poach the star players from smaller programs with the big $$$.

If the kid from Pitt couldn't play this year,  the boosters at UsC wouldn't be offering him 3 million dollars.

Neither one of these 2 things are "wrong", but when you combine both of them and have no regulations in place, it just creates total chaos. Good for the kids....terrible for the sport, IMO

 
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Yeah, even if the 6 or 7 figure bogus "NIL deals" are made illegal again, it will all just go back under the table. 

The real issue here is the no sit out transfer. That's whats allowing the big programs to poach the star players from smaller programs with the big $$$.

If the kid from Pitt couldn't play this year,  the boosters at UsC wouldn't be offering him 3 million dollars.

Neither one of these 2 things are "wrong", but when you combine both of them and have no regulations in place, it just creates total chaos. Good for the kids....terrible for the sport, IMO


Yep that's the crux for me.  Coaches can move, but at least a buy-out must be paid.  In pro sports players can only move once they are free agents (or nowadays if they force a trade).  Of course college has no CBA so apples-oranges.

It would be a little easier to swallow if the player transferring had to pay some price.  Sitting a year seems like a fair price to me, especially if they can train and practice at the new school AND don't lose a year of eligibility.  Make it just a little less attractive to bolt.

 
I remember years ago saying how prevalent this was and somebody here got so offended and said no way are people paying players and I’m an idiot etc. I was dumbfounded that somebody could honestly believe players weren’t getting paid. I told them they must believe in Santa. Wish I remembered who it was. 


There have been many of "them" it seems like.

 
Even the people with "disposable wealth" are going to get tired of paying out of pocket especially if said school is winning anything of note
Wait, wouldn't it be the opposite? If the school is winning big consistently, won't that encourage the boosters because they can see the tangible results of their financial contributions?

I certainly agree that there are limits to the largesse though, depending on the goals. Southern Cal boosters may decline getting into an arms race with Alabama but may only want to outspend Oregon (I don't really know if this is how those conference relationships work, I might be way off on this).

 
As a fan, this all kind of sucks.  It really started with the portal, then the "free" one-time transfer, and in hoops you're having programs with 50-80% turnover every year.  Dana Altman here at Oregon has been way ahead of that for a few years now, but there's no doubt it's negatively impacting fan support when there's basically a new team every year. 

Now you layer NIL on top of it and you have players not leaving for the old reasons like playing time, coaching change, homesickness, etc, but leaving just for more money like the Miami kid and the Pitt WR.  That's going to happen more and more.

The flip side is, as someone mentioned up thread, you are probably going to have some guys come back instead of testing the NBA/NFL draft because they can make some money in college.  Oregon had 6-7 football players declare for the draft early, none of whom (other than Kayvon) got picked.  They got bad advice, in most cases.  So maybe NIL can help there, and keep some kids in school.

It's still early days as this was all rolled out due to a court ruling when there were no guardrails in place.  So the plane is being put together in the air, not ideal.  I think the NIL side of things will calm down as boosters that have paid $100s of thousand or millions of dollars to players that a) don't win or b) transfer anyway realize that this isn't as much fun as they thought it would be. From the portal side of things, the way it looks now we are going to have hundreds up to 1000 football players that entered the portal and end up without a place to play, or will end up at lower level schools or with even less playing time.  So there's definitely some tweaking needed there, including limiting to a few set windows of time when players can actually transfer.

I don't have a problem with kids getting paid that are generating millions/billions of dollars for some of these programs.  And I think NIL, at least the idea of it, is a good way to do it.  And it isn't just for the big sports - you have gymnasts and softball players and volleyball players making bank now off their social media presence, and that's awesome.  And if coaches can leave, players should be able to do so as well. The problem is the slippery slope we're on.  California is considering a law that would require colleges to directly pay players by returning a percentage of profit from a program to the athletes.  That could be the death of every sport outside of football, men's basketball, and a few women's hoops programs since they pay for all of the other programs.  I know most fans don't care about those Olympic sports, but the bulk of kids that get the college athlete experience aren't playing football or hoops, and that would be a shame to lose that opportunity.

 
Yep that's the crux for me.  Coaches can move, but at least a buy-out must be paid.  In pro sports players can only move once they are free agents (or nowadays if they force a trade).  Of course college has no CBA so apples-oranges.

It would be a little easier to swallow if the player transferring had to pay some price.  Sitting a year seems like a fair price to me, especially if they can train and practice at the new school AND don't lose a year of eligibility.  Make it just a little less attractive to bolt.


The easiest fix is to have two rules - if the coach leaves (doesn't matter why), then you can transfer without sitting out.  But outside of that you have to sit a year if you transfer.  Oregon had a WR quit on his team in the middle of the season because he was "disrespected" by not getting enough targets.  That's crap, and there should be consequences for that.  Now as soon as Cristobal left he should be free to go as well.

The graduate transfer rule is a little different.  In theory, it's great.  It was put in place to allow a kid a chance to start a graduate program and get the year paid for (the program you enter has to be one your current school doesn't offer, I believe).  But now it's just being used by PGs and QBs that want a chance to uplevel their exposure so they try somewhere else.

 
Guys…this has been going on for years. We just know about it now. Who do you think the bagmen were? 
I read recently one bagman claiming that this was also used to chase off coaches. If boosters wanted to run a coach off, they would shut off the taps to the talent.

I remember years ago saying how prevalent this was and somebody here got so offended and said no way are people paying players and I’m an idiot etc. I was dumbfounded that somebody could honestly believe players weren’t getting paid. I told them they must believe in Santa. Wish I remembered who it was. 
This was indeed a pretty lonely side of the aisle a few years back.

 
Wait, wouldn't it be the opposite? If the school is winning big consistently, won't that encourage the boosters because they can see the tangible results of their financial contributions?

I certainly agree that there are limits to the largesse though, depending on the goals. Southern Cal boosters may decline getting into an arms race with Alabama but may only want to outspend Oregon (I don't really know if this is how those conference relationships work, I might be way off on this).
How many schools win like that?  5?  maybe

 
The easiest fix is to have two rules - if the coach leaves (doesn't matter why), then you can transfer without sitting out.  But outside of that you have to sit a year if you transfer.  Oregon had a WR quit on his team in the middle of the season because he was "disrespected" by not getting enough targets.  That's crap, and there should be consequences for that.  Now as soon as Cristobal left he should be free to go as well.
Maybe they should begin negotiations with the players to get something like that in place.

 
I'm not sure the no sit transfer helps, but it's a separate issue altogether.  

The NIL deals need some level of cap, or if you offer it you pay whether they come to your school or not.  That would really throw the brakes on things in a hurry.  

That being said the actual amount of money being thrown around here may be a lot smaller than you considered.  Even Saban was saying the total money was nothing on the NIL deals themselves, they may just be cover for more bagmen stuff (if this is true).

 
This is all still missing the point. They are meant to be student athletes.
Oh, that ship sailed decades ago when the bigger schools turned football and basketball into lucrative commercial ventures (by way of not paying the most important part of the product). 

I hope we're not gonna rehash old arguments that have been pretty decisively settled.

 
Oh, that ship sailed decades ago when the bigger schools turned football and basketball into lucrative commercial ventures (by way of not paying the most important part of the product). 

I hope we're not gonna rehash old arguments that have been pretty decisively settled.
This is a predictable answer but wrong. I have taught many very high level d1 athletes and most have been excellent students. They are on the whole at least as good as the typical student at each university I have been at including 2 power 5 programs.

NIL combined with transfer rules are turning it into what people have said though. 

You are also completely wrong about the nature of college sports from the business perspective. Nobody cheers for players in college sports. They are behind their team. If all power 5 athletes went into a minor league and college sports were played with a drop in the talent, it would do next to nothing to interest.

You also have too big a focus on a few big football programs. That doesn't represent college athletics. Most universities run huge debts fielding garbage football teams. It drives up the cost of attendance at many universities. Although they do their best to hide it.

 
This is a predictable answer but wrong. I have taught many very high level d1 athletes and most have been excellent students. They are on the whole at least as good as the typical student at each university I have been at including 2 power 5 programs.

NIL combined with transfer rules are turning it into what people have said though. 

You are also completely wrong about the nature of college sports from the business perspective. Nobody cheers for players in college sports. They are behind their team. If all power 5 athletes went into a minor league and college sports were played with a drop in the talent, it would do next to nothing to interest.

You also have too big a focus on a few big football programs. That doesn't represent college athletics. Most universities run huge debts fielding garbage football teams. It drives up the cost of attendance at many universities. Although they do their best to hide it.
Some in this thread are arguing that the increased roster churns are diminishing fan interest. You're arguing that people only cheer for the schools and not for individual players. Which is right?

Fans like their schools to win more than they like their schools losing. The richer fans are willing to put up their cash and entice talented players who will help their schools win. It's not really more complicated than that.

There's lots of schools which aren't in a position to or interested in providing more than scholarships (and hundreds who don't even provide that). Good for them. But the big schools like the revenue associated with fielding nationally relevant teams and it's long overdue that they stop conspiring with each other to cut the players out of their piece of the pie.

 
You also have too big a focus on a few big football programs. That doesn't represent college athletics. Most universities run huge debts fielding garbage football teams. It drives up the cost of attendance at many universities. Although they do their best to hide it.
Your points aren't wrong, but I'm not sure what this has to do with NIL.  If Joe Smith from the local car dealership wants to give the star QB $50,000 to be in some advertisements, he should be able to do so, and star QB should be able to accept it without tarnishing his eligibility.  The profitability of the athletics department or the football team don't play into it. 

If the player is valuable enough to warrant this compensation, s/he should be allowed to earn it without getting lost in the archaic mess that are the NCAA regulations.

 
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Yep that's the crux for me.  Coaches can move, but at least a buy-out must be paid.  In pro sports players can only move once they are free agents (or nowadays if they force a trade).  Of course college has no CBA so apples-oranges.

It would be a little easier to swallow if the player transferring had to pay some price.  Sitting a year seems like a fair price to me, especially if they can train and practice at the new school AND don't lose a year of eligibility.  Make it just a little less attractive to bolt.


The transfer rules have always struck me as the most deplorable aspect of NCAA controls over these kids. To say a kid can't play a year because he wants to move to another school is outrageous and honestly should be illegal. They have a massive unpaid labor force that is earning billions and have the stones to tell a kid he is locked into whatever school he first chose regardless of what has happened in his life since he was 17?  Its already absurd to me that we just accept the fact these kids are only allowed a certain amount of eligibility to play college sports.  I've long maintained in these threads that the cleanest solution to all this, one that would solve all these college sports scandals and problems (although one that will never happen,) is to just completely divorce sports institutions from educational institutions top to bottom across the board. Universities can have intramural sports and even some competitions among true amateurs.  The kids who are doing sports to make a living should play for private clubs as is done everywhere else in the world.  Alabama can license the use of its name, logo and stadium to a private company called "Alabama Football, LLC" and stop the charade. 

 
I wonder how ticked I'd be if I were the idiot booster paying a kid 6 figures to sit out my team's bowl game. 


I think this is what is going to naturally reign some of this in.  The ROI on those 6 figures isn't going to be measured in how many more cars your dealership sells by featuring the 5-star linebacker in a bad, local tv commercial.  It's going to be measured in how successful the program is.  "Basking in the glow of reflected glory" is really the story of this dynamic, something I remember learning in Sports Marketing class here at Nike U back in the mid-90s that described the phenomenon, and that would be magnified if the donor feels a personal pride or connection in that player being there.  When that 6-figure LB transfers after they recruit another 5-star at the position, or he sits out the bowl game, or hell even if he gets hurt, that donor out $100K is going to realize that wasn't the best use of his money.

 
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Some in this thread are arguing that the increased roster churns are diminishing fan interest. You're arguing that people only cheer for the schools and not for individual players. Which is right?

Fans like their schools to win more than they like their schools losing. The richer fans are willing to put up their cash and entice talented players who will help their schools win. It's not really more complicated than that.

There's lots of schools which aren't in a position to or interested in providing more than scholarships (and hundreds who don't even provide that). Good for them. But the big schools like the revenue associated with fielding nationally relevant teams and it's long overdue that they stop conspiring with each other to cut the players out of their piece of the pie.
For most universities there is no pie

 
In favor of as many of these kids getting as much money as some bonehead with 5 car dealerships is willing to pay them. 

Good for them.

NCAA as we know it is over? Good. It was broken. 

Everyone else was pulling money out of college football, hasn't ruined the sport. I doubt this will either.

 
For most universities there is no pie
That's absolutely true. And just as absolutely irrelevant. Schools with no pie should schedule other pie-less schools.

Wait, I'm now being informed that this is already happening.

And let's talk a little about players making money and getting an education, a dubious concern once the schools started handing out scholarships to folks who might have been academically shaky but athletically elite. 

First, nobody's made a good argument about how making money interferes with studies but not making money doesn't. Second, it would be more helpful if schools severely reduced practice time, travel time and the number of games they schedule. Instead, they squeeze every minute they can out of kids to stay competitive and keep the revenue flowing all while restricting kids' movements and pay.

It was a great deal for the schools and we all got used to it as normal.

 
That's absolutely true. And just as absolutely irrelevant. Schools with no pie should schedule other pie-less schools.

Wait, I'm now being informed that this is already happening.

And let's talk a little about players making money and getting an education, a dubious concern once the schools started handing out scholarships to folks who might have been academically shaky but athletically elite. 

First, nobody's made a good argument about how making money interferes with studies but not making money doesn't. Second, it would be more helpful if schools severely reduced practice time, travel time and the number of games they schedule. Instead, they squeeze every minute they can out of kids to stay competitive and keep the revenue flowing all while restricting kids' movements and pay.

It was a great deal for the schools and we all got used to it as normal.
20 hours not including travel

 
Seems pretty quick to say college sports are ruined. These rules are brand new and we have been in the midst of a pandemic. 

 
They had to do something. But yeah this is going to need some adjustment if they want to try and balance it out at all.

I guess it really boils down to where the importance is placed. 

 
I agree with others that say things will eventually settle down.  It's the wild west out there right now, but NIL is still brand spanking new.

But what has really changed other than more kids swapping schools?  There are still haves and have nots and there always will be.  Some programs cycle in and out of the top tier.  Is that going to change?  Texas A&M boosters have deep pockets and appear to be willing to spend it.  So what?  Is that suddenly now unfair to Vanderbilt?

What if Vanderbilt boosters decided to make a 5-10 year commitment to NIL for football?  Probably have a better shot at being competitive that way than they had previously.  (I'm not taking a shot at Vandy. Just using them as an example.  Lord knows my team has their own issues).  Hopefully the Vanderbilt boosters have decided their priorities should be focused on research facilities and libraries and such.   :yucky: ;)   Good for them.

@Drunken Cowboy  if you root for the team and not the players, what does this change?

I could continue to rant about the facilities and coaching salaries arms race that has been going on for a while.  I have a big issue telling kids they are just stuck someplace when the coach that recruited them is free to go whenever.  Make coaches sit out a year if they want to transfer.  If a player decides to transfer only because of money, good for them.  Shows they are being educated.

 
I agree with others that say things will eventually settle down.  It's the wild west out there right now, but NIL is still brand spanking new.

But what has really changed other than more kids swapping schools?  There are still haves and have nots and there always will be.  Some programs cycle in and out of the top tier.  Is that going to change?  Texas A&M boosters have deep pockets and appear to be willing to spend it.  So what?  Is that suddenly now unfair to Vanderbilt?

What if Vanderbilt boosters decided to make a 5-10 year commitment to NIL for football?  Probably have a better shot at being competitive that way than they had previously.  (I'm not taking a shot at Vandy. Just using them as an example.  Lord knows my team has their own issues).  Hopefully the Vanderbilt boosters have decided their priorities should be focused on research facilities and libraries and such.   :yucky: ;)   Good for them.

@Drunken Cowboy  if you root for the team and not the players, what does this change?

I could continue to rant about the facilities and coaching salaries arms race that has been going on for a while.  I have a big issue telling kids they are just stuck someplace when the coach that recruited them is free to go whenever.  Make coaches sit out a year if they want to transfer.  If a player decides to transfer only because of money, good for them.  Shows they are being educated.
This has nothing to do with being a fan. I care about what this is doing to universities. The money spent on athletics is a huge problem. 

 
This has nothing to do with being a fan. I care about what this is doing to universities. The money spent on athletics is a huge problem. 
Oh, I agree with you on that point.  I've talked about the facilities arms race before and how crazy that is.  The NIL money shouldn't be coming from the schools themselves.  Not sure how many boosters were thinking about donating $1 million for a new library but have instead decided to put it towards NIL.

 

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