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****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gottabesweet
- Start date
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
They are improving (I like their 1st round pick) and have a new OC which should help.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
Oh for sure. They need Thomas to take a big step too. Definitely not great at all.
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
Although I hate acquiring late picks in a draft 2 years from now, I think you received good value. Additionally, your 2023 early 2nd is close to equivalent value to your 2022 first you gave up. Turning a 1st and 3rd into two 2nds and a first is always a good thing.
jabarony
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Well I had a top 4 tier this year so in my mind you managed to leverage the most value possible out of that next pick. I like it. I personally like Olave next and I like him quite a bit but I imagine I would move him and a late 3rd for that package pretty easily. Those top 4 I'd likely pass. Haven't stared that down though.
jabarony
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
The other person backed out since they didn't want to wait until the 3rd to pick next year in 23 so won't give up both 2nds even though I thought we had a full on agreement and sent it over. Hate that. His counter is:
1.05
24 5th (will be late)
for
24 1st (most likely late)
23 2nd (whichever is earlier of his 2 but definitely top half)
24 3rd (most likely a playoff team)
Now I'm undecided and might stay at 1.05.
heckmanm
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
FFPC SuperFlex not involved (and disgusted)
Team A gives Pickett, Pickens, James Cook
Team B gives CMC
Team A gives Pickett, Pickens, James Cook
Team B gives CMC
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
titusbramble
Footballguy
Not going to lie, I am confused at the disgust here in the context of someone not three pages earlier saying they'd easily give three firsts for anyone on their roster
Boston
Footballguy
I agree with this...if the deal is two #'1's and a pretty high #2 does anyone complain? The issue with this deal is all three players picked are far from definites...that being said if you play the if game and if Pickett turns into a solid QB you got a young QB in SF which is always a big-time asset, a potential quality young RB who is in a high-octane offense and a WR drafted in the second round by a WR factory...those are potentially three very good assets...I do get wanting more for Cmac once names are attached to the picks but overall I don't have an issue with this deal especially if you are in rebuild mode and you shopped him around and this was your best offer.
I guess I don’t really view those three players as surefire worth 1st round picks, even though they all my be routinely gone by the late 1st in rookie drafts. I see Cook and Pickens more like early-mid 2nd round talents.
If the trade had been K. Walker, Olave and Pickens, I’d be singing a different tune. I just see this one as one-sided right now and if CMC stays healthy this season I think it’ll look even more that way in season.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I've see McC go for less recently - I don't think he has a robust market anymore based on the last two seasons - whether rightly or wrongly - and if the CMc was in rebuild that may have been the best deal he could find.
Of course he could have rolled the dice and waited for McC to show he's "back" - but then there's the risk of him going down again.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Those are, in fact, 3 players, not “3 1sts”.
Do I really have to explain the difference in value between 3 players I may or may not draft, and 3 1sts that I can either use or deal?
Not to mention some of us were very specific about the year. 2023 1sts >>> 2022 1sts.
Not sure why anyone would be confused by such an obvious difference.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
bingo.
Seems pretty low to me, given the 3 player names mentioned. But we all value prospects differently.
Ridgeback
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yuck pretty much sums it up.
Those are all players I’d be hesitant to draft and if I did have 3x 2022 1sts I could deal them to move up - possibly to 1.01 for Hall.
CMC’s value is certainly in the eye of the beholder coming off 2 years of injury, but he is still considered by most to be a potential top 6 asset in redraft, and to a win-now team he seems quite a bit more valuable than Cook, Pickett and Pickens.
It’s a marginal return, IMO. If it were actually 3x 1sts, that’s vastly different.
But then, I’m not a Pickett guy.
Also, rethinking it I probably wouldn’t light up a message board over it. I’d just SMH and move on. That was last night me talking. lol
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Pickett was going late 1st in FFPC SF drafts last month. Pickens and Cook right around the 1/2 turn. So yeah it is like two late 2022 1sts and one early 2nd. But IMO those picks all suck, with Cook being the only halfway decent one. There is a reason Pickett isn't going earlier in SF drafts and I know a lot of people are high on Pickens but for my money he only ran two routes in college and that is a problem for me. CMC should still be commanding 1.01 plus. ~1.10,1.12 & 2.01 doesn't do it for me at all.
rockaction
Footballguy
These are just too light for McCaffrey, at least for my liking.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That seems like a pretty fair return for CMC, while still a potentially very good deal for the team getting him. I’d like that 2023 2nd to be a 1st.
Its also a bit risky since CMC is no lock to avoid the soft tissue injuries that have plagued his last 2 seasons.
I have no issue with either side of this deal though.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
titusbramble
Footballguy
Well yes, obviously you would prefer both the 2023 picks, and obviously you would want the 2022 picks to be earlier, I'm talking about this sort of comment in relation to the Jefferson ubertrade a few days ago:
All three of the players listed are viable 1st round picks in superflex, I'd expect Pickett/Cook to fall out of the first basically never and Pickens to be picked in the first more often than not depending on how high people picking late are on Moore, Watson, Dotson and others outside the top 5 WRs. While I wouldn't give up Taylor for 1.10 and 1.11 and 1.12, and I think most people wouldn't, that doesn't really change the perception that someone would do that - that the picks have been converted into actual players doesn't change anything. Just because someone's taken James Cook, it doesn't mean that was magically done with a third round pick if you think he sucks.
Frankly I ask the question given I'd probably trade away a 26yo running back who's shown no ability to stay healthy since forever for three players draftable in this years first, although I may be in the minority on this one
Marauder
Footballguy
It's a fair trade. In fact, every trade calc I looked at (and Hindery's value chart) show it in favor of the rookies. Obviously if you don't like these three particular players you wouldn't make the deal but based on their ADP's a lot of people do like those players. If the guy trading away McCaffrey does like those three rookies then there's absolutely nothing wrong with the trade.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
right, I was involved in that discussion and I was solidly in camp “give me any 3x 2023 picks, even 9-12”
As for the 2022 picks, that’s kind of apples and oranges. It’s not that I’d want them to be earlier (which of course I would) - it’s that once they’ve been used to pick players, they’re no longer as valuable. Now they’re not picks, they’re players.
There’s a monumental difference there.
Picks can be used to take different players. Picks can more easily be dealt, potentially even for higher picks.
It still doesn’t make them as valuable as picks. Talking about 3 players and saying the team dealing CMC is getting 3 picks is false equivalence, because player value is in the eye of the beholder.
For example, unlike the Steelers, I would never take Pickett in the 1st round of fantasy drafts. Especially with the recent shine Mitch is getting.
By comparison, there’s a near universal valuation of picks. Because picks aren’t players.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I think this is the most accurate thing said on this trade so far. It’s really all that matters.
When I, and others, express that we feel it’s light for CMC, that’s because we each value those players lower than most.
But at the end of the day, if the team that dealt CMC is happy, it’s a fair deal.
I see 3 quarters for a dollar, but maybe team CMC saw $1.25.
Good observation.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Or he could be happy he moved CMc before the bottom falls out. I think CMc is getting way more love in this thread than in any of my leagues where he’s been moved.
I have the 1.04 in my only redraft and I’m a little worried that I’ll face the dilemma of drafting CMc. The massive volume may have caught up to him.
I do agree there’s also a very good chance he stays healthy and you end up being right. I just find the surety by everyone in here a little surprising.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
In regards to the CMC trade for 3 "first round picks" - I just don't understand pulling the trigger on this deal. I would hold CMC for this and try to sell him high, because you will probably find most of those players could be had at a buy low price by midpoint of the year and CMC after a couple games, barring injury will have a higher fandom.
I don't mind the Diggs and a '23 second rounder trade, but I still wouldn't pull the trigger on that deal either. My thoughts on CMC is, I want the chance to backfill his position. I realize the draft (placement, player outcomes, etc.) is not a sure thing but I want the opportunity to backfill his position with a first round pick. I don't think Cook does that, nor do I think a 2023 2nd does that.
However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if CMC has another injury plagued season - his stock will never recover. I just think you could have Cook, Pickens, Pickett for a battered/injured CMC next season.
I don't mind the Diggs and a '23 second rounder trade, but I still wouldn't pull the trigger on that deal either. My thoughts on CMC is, I want the chance to backfill his position. I realize the draft (placement, player outcomes, etc.) is not a sure thing but I want the opportunity to backfill his position with a first round pick. I don't think Cook does that, nor do I think a 2023 2nd does that.
However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if CMC has another injury plagued season - his stock will never recover. I just think you could have Cook, Pickens, Pickett for a battered/injured CMC next season.
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TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
I guess let me pose the question - who would you take at 1.04 over CMC? We always approach Dynasty Drafts with upside picks and evaluating a guys ceiling. Who has a higher ceiling than CMC at that spot?
barackdhouse
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I agree it is fair. I puked in my mouth over it not because I was going to go ##### on the league message board but because I didn't get a chance to make a bid on CMC. But yeah like someone else said above, if this was Walker, Olave and (3rd player) would I feel different? And I would. I would pause a little longer before keeping CMC but I certainly think it is fair. Just gross.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Got CMC after the injury for what turned into the 1.10 & 1.11. These could very well turn out to be Cook and Pickens as BPA, so I guess you can at least credit Team B for extracting an additional Pickett in a SF.
Of course the picks weren't certain at the time, and I could have used the two 1sts to get a player that actually would have helped me in the playoffs.
I'm still thrilled to have CMC for those picks, and I still take CMC in this trade, but I don't think its an abomination if Team B likes all these players relative to where they were selected.
I'm not bullish enough on Pickett or Pickens to move CMC for this package. I don't love Cook's talent, but I think there's enough that I definitely see the intrigue in that offense. If he's solid, I don't think the Bills are going to continue to throw 2nd and 3rd round picks at the position or make a power play for Bijan or a top free agent, but then again, there are no guarantees that they don't.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Based strictly on my projections at this point I have McCaffrey as RB2 overall - but of course there's risk. I'd consider Harris, Dalvin Cook, Henry or Ekeler over him at 1.04. They all have the same "upside" imo - but of course they all have their risks as well.
If I was in a start up dynasty, I don't think I'd use a first round pick on him.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
Those are fair assessments. I do think it is funny Dalvin Cook is valued higher than he is, when Cook hasn't played an entire season in his whole career.
I guess I would say JT is the only person I think more highly of than CMC and then it becomes evaluation of risk; where I think Najee Harris is a lower risk but the other 3 of Cook, Henry and Ekeler have the same type of risk. The reason I worry about Ekeler is age and splitting carries. For years, the Chargers seem to be set on finding a replacement and I'm worried Spiller just might be that guy.
I agree in Dynasty formats, I would look for someone younger than CMC in the first because I am not a firm believer in CMC's longevity; which is why I traded him this offseason but packaged enough quality players in the deal to get a more than fair return.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He's played a lot more than Christian the last two seasons (and yeah I get it, recency bias) but more importantly he has a viable handcuff that doesn't drop off much in production in Mattison. Chubba Hubbard was poor in relief last season and now Donte Foreman is added to the mix - so there's no clear handcuff.
I'm not here to bash CMc because if he does fall to 1.04 it is likely I take him - I'm just saying in dynasty he has lost value.
titusbramble
Footballguy
Oh please, there is a near universal valuation of picks because we know what players those picks relate to. Everyone is stockpiling 2023 picks because we know the players in 2023 are better than the players that are in this rookie class. We have a high valuation of 1.01 this year relative to 1.02 because we know Hall is that much better than everyone else. If 1.02 is 1.02, you'd be happy shipping your 2023 1.02 for my 2022 1.02? No, you wouldn't. If Bijan was magically warped forward in time twelve months and was draft eligible this season, you would. If you're not looking at an offer of, say, this year's 1.08 for Darnell Mooney and thinking "would I prefer to have Mooney or Skyy Moore going forward - maybe better than Moore if someone ahead of me in the draft goes nuts", then you're doing something wrong
rockaction
Footballguy
This is true, but picks are still the most liquid asset in dynasty. The mental process you're describing cuts down on their liquidity, which is why they're less valuable. But in a vacuum, HSG is correct. You have the option to do things with picks. Maybe one of your league-mates really values Christian Watson with the 1.08 vs. Skyy Moore and is a Watson sucker. He'll gladly cough up something better than you would have gotten for the 1.08 and a chance to draft Watson. Liquidity is still in play, and you can extract value out of it.
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
This is absolutely terrible. 3 guys that wouldn't even be top 15 picks in next year's draft for someone with RB1 upside and only 25. Wow.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Until they’re actually used, picks are picks.
How you continue to brush this aside as though it doesn’t effect the value is baffling.
It’s is a false assertion that those 3 players are the same value as those 3 as-yet-to-be-made picks.
it’s not even really debatable. For one, it is false to claim that we know who will be picked with them. For another, picks without names are far more tradable assets.
I’m shocked we’re even having a discsussion about this.
