US Men's National Team (6 Viewers)

[NewlyRetired]

This is what a pay to play country looks against straight class. We need to do better as usual.

While this was once a BIG issue, it no longer is the case.

Many of our players like Musah, Balogun, Dest, Jedi, CCV, Lund, Johnny etc etc all were developed abroad. Some like Gio and Pulisic left very early to go to Europe. And the rest all mostly come from the academy system which is free to play for all MLS sides and I believe most of the USL sides as well.

There may be a very rare player like Turner who does not focus on soccer early that breaks through later but going forward, the vast vast majority of US Nats will either be dual nats or academy players who moved up and went pro.

 

[NewlyRetired]

While the first half had some issues, it felt much different than the second half. I think Germany cleaning up its give aways in the first half and the US's energy level dropping significantly after half time led to the mess of the second half.

The second half may have indicated we are far from ready to move on from Adams. His entire livelihood is based on cleaning up loose balls, which Germany feasted on in the second half in the middle of the park.

Mexico beat Ghana 2-0 last night with Ghana registering 0 shots on goal. The US should be expected to win the next game IMO.

While the US was not expected to beat Germany (yes Germany are a mess but any team that can beat France in their most recent game is obviously ultra talented), but I expected a more even performance. The second half was not good enough in any way shape or form.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Some minor tidbits:

* Dest and Weah have developed nice chemistry together. I found it very odd to put Dest on the left and away from Weah. Dest and Pulisic have never really clicked together for what ever reason. I think both players being right footed on the left hurts the overlaps here as Dest does not want to take an on rushing ball and dribble drive it deep, he always checks up and transfers the ball to his right foot for crossing.

* Musah is just not a natural 6. His biggest skill is being able to progress the ball on the dribble through the midfield. His weakest skill is using passing to progress the ball and yet when he is employed as a 6 he clearly feels (or is told) to not dribble. Also, while the game was clearly going Germany's. way, at 2-1, Musah had a WIDE open header on a corner. All he needed to do was head that down and the xG was going to be high. I don't know if he is ever going to figure out the final 3rd. He is now at 30 caps with 0 goals and 2 assists. Those numbers have to improve this cycle.

* I think there are going to be at least 4 times GGG can bring up on film when a ball should have been released to Balogun when he made his runs and the US player either missed or or ignored it. It seems clear Balogun does not really impact the game much when he is not getting the service he needs so the US mindset needs to change else we basically are playing with 10 players. Even Pepi, who is far from a work horse, does more than Balogun with out the ball.

 

[NewlyRetired]

(I thought CP earned the PK on the GK... based on phone viewage).

On the TV replay, it looked clear that Pulisic dove. He was not touched from what I could see and he probably should have got a yellow. ter Stegen was validated in yelling at Pulisic.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Dest is like.. I play defense- right, PSV coach?

looking around woefully... right? anybody? I'm a very good defense player.

There is a reason Dest has had problems at club level in recent years. But playing at PSV, at least domestically, is likely to hide his faults and highlight his strengths, since PSV is so dominant domestically right now they are always on the front foot.

This should also be a nod to Jedi who is FAR more likely to play against Sane level players in the EPL than Dest will ever see in the Netherlands.

 

[gianmarco]

Some minor tidbits:

* Dest and Weah have developed nice chemistry together. I found it very odd to put Dest on the left and away from Weah. Dest and Pulisic have never really clicked together for what ever reason. I think both players being right footed on the left hurts the overlaps here as Dest does not want to take an on rushing ball and dribble drive it deep, he always checks up and transfers the ball to his right foot for crossing.

* Musah is just not a natural 6. His biggest skill is being able to progress the ball on the dribble through the midfield. His weakest skill is using passing to progress the ball and yet when he is employed as a 6 he clearly feels (or is told) to not dribble. Also, while the game was clearly going Germany's. way, at 2-1, Musah had a WIDE open header on a corner. All he needed to do was head that down and the xG was going to be high. I don't know if he is ever going to figure out the final 3rd. He is now at 30 caps with 0 goals and 2 assists. Those numbers have to improve this cycle.

* I think there are going to be at least 4 times GGG can bring up on film when a ball should have been released to Balogun when he made his runs and the US player either missed or or ignored it. It seems clear Balogun does not really impact the game much when he is not getting the service he needs so the US mindset needs to change else we basically are playing with 10 players. Even Pepi, who is far from a work horse, does more than Balogun with out the ball.

Yes to all of this for me.

Balogun was clearly frustrated the first half. He was making the runs and his arms went up a few times wondering why he didn't get the service.

 

[zoobird]

I watched from about 13 minutes into the game until shortly after the third German goal. Agree with some stuff I'm seeing posted, disagree with some.

Things that stood out to me:

• I thought our attack looked great overall in the first half. Much more positive than most of what I'm seeing posted about the game as a whole because of this
• Our defense looked terrible
• Balogun had relatively minimal impact. We need to get him the ball more. But he also missed one fairly easy opportunity for a goal
• Pulisic looked really good
• McKennie was pretty good
• Musah was ok, but seems better for Milan, where he is more integrated into the attack
• Weah is really fast
• Dest is great attacking, bad defending
• All of our defenders seemed a bit slow clearing the ball when Turner needed their help
• Reyna looked pretty good. He makes a huge difference for us
• I want to be impressed by Scally, but he never seems as good to me as what others are saying
• Seems like we gave the Germans a ton of open space in the midfield...not sure if that's a symptom of not playing with a true 6

 

[El Floppo]

The second half may have indicated we are far from ready to move on from Adams. His entire livelihood is based on cleaning up loose balls, which Germany feasted on in the second half in the middle of the park.

Agree about Adams... but I'd say more important than the loose balls- which Musah is decent with- is Adams ability to read space and passing lanes. I kept saying that Germany were finding all the seams in the US MF and exploiting them repeatedly- Adams is a seam-plugger the way Caillou was.

 

[NewlyRetired]

• I want to be impressed by Scally, but he never seems as good to me as what others are saying

Scally is a very interesting player because he is so much of a tweener for me.

Not big but not small
Not fast but not slow
Not led footed but not technically strong

I am not sure what he does really well and I am not sure what he sucks at.

But to your point, he does not really pop when he is on the field for the US. He does not have the wide attacking instinct GGG usually wants out of his wide backs. Jedi has very little foot skills but his willingness to get up and down that wing does present some problems for the opponent.

What was most concerning was he had almost no connection to Weah most of the game, whether by tactics or by not being used to playing together.

 

[El Floppo]

Some minor tidbits:

* Dest and Weah have developed nice chemistry together. I found it very odd to put Dest on the left and away from Weah. Dest and Pulisic have never really clicked together for what ever reason. I think both players being right footed on the left hurts the overlaps here as Dest does not want to take an on rushing ball and dribble drive it deep, he always checks up and transfers the ball to his right foot for crossing.

* Musah is just not a natural 6. His biggest skill is being able to progress the ball on the dribble through the midfield. His weakest skill is using passing to progress the ball and yet when he is employed as a 6 he clearly feels (or is told) to not dribble. Also, while the game was clearly going Germany's. way, at 2-1, Musah had a WIDE open header on a corner. All he needed to do was head that down and the xG was going to be high. I don't know if he is ever going to figure out the final 3rd. He is now at 30 caps with 0 goals and 2 assists. Those numbers have to improve this cycle.

* I think there are going to be at least 4 times GGG can bring up on film when a ball should have been released to Balogun when he made his runs and the US player either missed or or ignored it. It seems clear Balogun does not really impact the game much when he is not getting the service he needs so the US mindset needs to change else we basically are playing with 10 players. Even Pepi, who is far from a work horse, does more than Balogun with out the ball.

Dest... as you say plyaing for PSV, means his team is on the front foot. but I'd add that the Eredivsie also isn't known exactly for defense. there's a reason forwards go there and thrive. and watching PSV, I don't even know that Dest is playing a true wingback role tbh... even when on the backfoot or against the counter, his responsibilities haven't seemed to be about getting back and defending. and he is thriving in this role with very little defensive duty. even though he's found his happy place, I don't know that PSV is helping his growth as a US FB. or maybe the US can try to match the tactics of PSV and not make him one?

so on one hand, one of our key FBs (in our hammered into stone 4-3-3 best role is doing everything but defending. on the other, one of our best MFs is a liability around the box and doesn't seem to have the natural instincts to be the hole-plugger as a DM. they're obviously more than good enough against lesser teams, but liabilities against the better teams. dunno.

Balo... yeah. the team seemed focused on finding CP or the occasional Weah overlap leaving Balo starved. they MUST find his runs- no excuse not to for these level of players. that said- his hold up play... something that I"ve seen at a very nice level... was really poor last night. he didn't get a ton of balls to him with his back to goal... maybe only a few... but he lost them off poor touches (I distinctly remember one that he zardozed off his chest) or just getting worked off the ball by the CB. as a 9, sometimes you don't get the ball much but you must make the most of the touches you do get... he didn't.

the MF getting so completely overun- and while things were better in the 1st half, I mentioned at half time that it still could have been 3 or 4 goals against- it was all just so easy for germany to find and exploit those seams. and while I mentioned that Musah isn't a natural hole-plugger, I do think he has a good sense of shape- he generally pairs well on both sides of the ball with whomever is playing alongside him- especially Swag.

I really don't know what happened last night, but it wasn't working. maybe Gio was the problem?

 

[El Floppo]

• I want to be impressed by Scally, but he never seems as good to me as what others are saying

Scally is a very interesting player because he is so much of a tweener for me.

Not big but not small
Not fast but not slow
Not led footed but not technically strong

I am not sure what he does really well and I am not sure what he sucks at.

But to your point, he does not really pop when he is on the field for the US. He does not have the wide attacking instinct GGG usually wants out of his wide backs. Jedi has very little foot skills but his willingness to get up and down that wing does present some problems for the opponent.

What was most concerning was he had almost no connection to Weah most of the game, whether by tactics or by not being used to playing together.

Scally strikes me a more of an old school FB. defends well, holds the line well, reads the field well, offers support when needing to. he doesn't seem to excel in the modern game's FB role on the ball or attacking down the wings, although I've seen him send decnet crosses in when he gets in those spots. he's the anti-Dest. last night, with the way germany was pressing and attacking, those attacking opportunities weren't there for him. plus Weah's vertical game almost takes his overlap out of the equation. but yeah- they weren't on the same page, which left Weah AWOL too much.

 

[El Floppo]

• All of our defenders seemed a bit slow clearing the ball when Turner needed their help
• Reyna looked pretty good. He makes a huge difference for us

Richards in particular struggled against the press... but usually steady footed Ream was having a tough time too. those forwards (and MF behind) closed him down sooo fast- even playing in the EPL he wasn't used to it.

Gio... maybe I'm an outlier, but I thought he wasn't involved enough. he showed his qualities- the kid can ball- but I didn't see much of it last night.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I really don't know what happened last night, but it wasn't working. maybe Gio was the problem?

The second half was significantly worse than the first IMO and Gio was subbed at half time so he had no effect on the second half.

 

[prefontaine]

I really don't know what happened last night, but it wasn't working. maybe Gio was the problem?

really weird assessment at the end given we completely capitulated as soon as Gio came off (though I agree he wasn't at his best)

 

[prefontaine]

Some thoughts

* We lined up in a 4231 in the first half. I believe this is the first time Berhalter has ever employed this formation. It was definitely the first time he's ever played Gio centrally
* The starting side looked like they'd never played together and lacked any fluidity. This is not unexpected given the new formation, but we didn't see that in the NL semis/final in this same formation with these same players so this seems to be regression
* When LDT came on for Reyna, we moved back to a more familiar 433. Despite that, it really went downhill fast without a true ball hawking 6
* No adjustment to Dest struggling with Sane. It was a tough assignment but no one really helped him out. We can criticize him but he was put in 1v1 situations over and over against one of the best players in the world.
* We were exposed pretty often by pushing fullbacks high leaving the centerbacks out to dry. I think the idea was Musah/McKennie were supposed to provide help but that was not always there. I was very concerned how easy the cutback was.
* Despite the change to the formation, the method of attack was tried and true. We played 27 crosses into the box and completed 3. Almost nothing came through the middle.
* Balogun, like our other strikers the last few years, struggled to find the game. I'm not sure how to get him more involved but the attack will sputter unless we figure it out
* Our xG was 0.26 but only 0.09 came from open play.
* The best chance of the whole game was on Musah's free header. Despite that, our set plays continue to be abysmal. Why Pulisic continues to take everything is just beyond me.
* Pulisic's worldie and Füllkrug's ineptitude really masked how dire this really was.
* It was only a friendly and we tried a new formation and played pretty open. Hopefully we learned from it.

 

[El Floppo]

I really don't know what happened last night, but it wasn't working. maybe Gio was the problem?

The second half was significantly worse than the first IMO and Gio was subbed at half time so he had no effect on the second half.

I really don't know what happened last night, but it wasn't working. maybe Gio was the problem?

really weird assessment at the end given we completely capitulated as soon as Gio came off (though I agree he wasn't at his best)

I was talking about during his involvement in the first half where the US MF was getting carved up in ways I'm not used to seeing.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Haven't kept up with the thread, but a couple quick hits...

I know it won't work when we're playing lesser teams, and that we are a greater team more often than not these days, but the US on the counter was glorious to watch. Would love to see us get back to that style of play on the regular. We've got the skill, 90-minute engines, and speed to kill. Weah doing a full-on Gareth Bale was pretty sweet.

I'd 100% take Dest out of the starting lineup and have Scally and Robinson bookend the defense. He's just too much of a liability when the other team is on the ball.

And this one will probably be controversial, but you either have to make Reyna a 2nd forward playing off Balogon with a deeper 4-man midfield behind them (relative to the 4-3-3), make him a #10 in a 4-man midfield, or pull him. He's not a winger and he's not good enough defensively to play in a 3-man midfield. Having he and Dest both in the back seven field players left holes all over the place IMO.

Musah's not really a #6, so that didn't help either. But hooboy... that kid has got a ceiling if he keeps growing. Some of the one touch stuff through the midfield in tight spaces had me excited enough that I had to look up when they recommend I call a doctor. Heavy bias on my side for a 3-man midfield with him as an #8 next to McKennie, backed by a true #6.

We're still not getting our best out of Balogun, but I still love a front three of CP, Balogun and Weah. It just works and the spaces speak for themselves. We created a lot for the first 60 minutes or so.

I'm an LDLT fan, so this isn't mean as a dig, but I think of him as the new Steve Ralston -- of The Ralston Line fame. A perfectly serviceable player that's right around the median of players in the big tournament pool, but one you're hoping to improve on. Basically the O/U dividing line of the mainstays.

 

[El Floppo]

* We lined up in a 4231 in the first half. I believe this is the first time Berhalter has ever employed this formation. It was definitely the first time he's ever played Gio centrally

I wasn't aware they were playing this formation... or that they did it last time out.

that means Musah and Swag were the DMs... something I'd hope they'd try without Adams. I'm surprised the two of them couldn't handle things better

 

[El Floppo]

Musah's not really a #6, so that didn't help either. But hooboy... that kid has got a ceiling if he keeps growing. Some of the one touch stuff through the midfield in tight spaces had me excited enough that I had to look up when they recommend I call a doctor.

that nutmeg in mf... oh lordy.

 

[El Floppo]

some comments from Swag:

• “We had a great start to the game, the energy levels were high. I'm sure they went inside [at half-time] and saw how they could hurt us. I think the pressing in the second half, for us, we kind of got a little bit disorganised. I mean, a player like Gundogan, if you leave him a little space, he punishes you, and that's what he was doing, he was building up and made it very difficult for us. I feel like we couldn’t really get close to him, we were just defending in our box the whole time.”
• Niclas Fullkrug and Jamal Masiala were also on target for Germany, with McKennie aware that the USMNT have things to work on tactically before facing Ghana next Tuesday.
  He added: “We could have been a little bit better at preventing the counter-attacks or the long balls in behind the backline, because Germany has speed up top for sure, and their little switches that they had, just closing the middle down, I think would have helped a lot. But Gregg’s a tactician, so we'll definitely go in and look at video and then review it and see how we could have done better.”

 

[prefontaine]

* We lined up in a 4231 in the first half. I believe this is the first time Berhalter has ever employed this formation. It was definitely the first time he's ever played Gio centrally

I wasn't aware they were playing this formation... or that they did it last time out.

that means Musah and Swag were the DMs... something I'd hope they'd try without Adams. I'm surprised the two of them couldn't handle things better

Yes it was a 4231 in possession with Gio playing a bit of free role. Out of possession, we pressed with 4 with Musah/McKennie in the next line so a bit of a 4-2-4.

In the NL games, we rotated between a 4231 and a 433 throughout the game. I think once we got ahead vs Canada it looked more like a 433 but early on Gio was definitely playing a 10. Against Mexico he was a full on 10.

 

[El Floppo]

some more, re: balo:

• “I can’t really blame him so much for it. Moving forward, we’re just trying to find him, get him on the ball. Whether that’s him coming down low, whether that’s supporting him so he can play one-touch or have options instead of having to go against one big guy with his back to the goal. I think for the future, we’re just trying to, like I said, give him more touches, give him more balls, and then try and find him in behind. Let him know that we see him, and that we believe in him.”
  Balogun has scored two goals in five appearances for his country, with McKennie confident that the 22-year-old will thrive when those around him play to his strengths. The Juventus midfielder added: “The thing about Flo — and we see it in training all the time — you know, he’s confident on the ball. I think he’s a player that makes a lot of runs in behind the backline. And it’s just a matter of, if we’re going to find him or not, or if we see it or not.”
  
  
  

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I wasn't aware they were playing this formation... or that they did it last time out.

Me either... but still suffers from the same problem.

Regardless of formation there are usually 3 true attacking players. Maybe it's the front three in a 4-3-3 and maybe it's a #10 in midfield, but usually it's three. Which means that you have three true midfielders too (assuming 4 defenders).

I started doing this a few years ago watching Liverpool...

True #6 = 4 points
#6/#8 hybrid = 3
#8 = 2
#8/#10 hybrid = 1
True #10 = 0

I'm a fan of 7-9 points in midfield using this scheme (depending on how front-foot and attacking you want to be). When everyone is healthy Liverpool has almost always been 7 or 8. And it's based on the player, not the position -- putting a square peg in a round hole doesn't make them round.

In our pool...

Reyna = #10 (0)
McKennie = #8/10 (1)
LDLT = #8 (2)
Musah = #6/8 (3)
Adams = #6 (4)

So Reyna, McKennie and Musah are way light (4 points) and even McKennie, LDLT and Musah are light (6 points). McKennie, Musah, Adams are totally balanced (8 points).

I'm sure this won't work for some of you all, and you can quibble with my ratings, it's just how I think about balancing a midfield -- whether that the back three in a 4-man midfield or the three in a 3-man midfield.

 

[prefontaine]

Balance and all is important and interesting but the facts from this game are that

1. We had 0.09 xG from the run of play
2. We were exposed repeatedly on defense and Germany created 5 big chances (we had 1 - the Musah header)

It's a friendly and sometimes you try out little tweaks to see what players are capable of and the result is not the end all be all. But this was a really poor showing.

 

[El Floppo]

I wasn't aware they were playing this formation... or that they did it last time out.

Me either... but still suffers from the same problem.

Regardless of formation there are usually 3 true attacking players. Maybe it's the front three in a 4-3-3 and maybe it's a #10 in midfield, but usually it's three. Which means that you have three true midfielders too (assuming 4 defenders).

I started doing this a few years ago watching Liverpool...

True #6 = 4 points
#6/#8 hybrid = 3
#8 = 2
#8/#10 hybrid = 1
True #10 = 0

I'm a fan of 7-9 points in midfield using this scheme (depending on how front-foot and attacking you want to be). When everyone is healthy Liverpool has almost always been 7 or 8. And it's based on the player, not the position -- putting a square peg in a round hole doesn't make them round.

In our pool...

Reyna = #10 (0)
McKennie = #8/10 (1)
LDLT = #8 (2)
Musah = #6/8 (3)
Adams = #6 (4)

So Reyna, McKennie and Musah are way light (4 points) and e ven McKennie, LDLT and Musah are light (6 points). McKennie, Musah, Adams are totally balanced (8 points).

I'm sure this won't work for some of you all, and you can quibble with my ratings, it's just how I think about balancing a midfield -- whether that the back three in a 4-man midfield or the three in a 3-man midfield.

what

 

[El Floppo]

Balance and all is important and interesting but the facts from this game are that

1. We had 0.09 xG from the run of play
2. We were exposed repeatedly on defense and Germany created 5 big chances (we had 1 - the Musah header)

It's a friendly and sometimes you try out little tweaks to see what players are capable of and the result is not the end all be all. But this was a really poor showing.

outside of some really poor German finishing, it genuinely could have been 5 or more for them.

but the way they waltzed through the field and around the top of the box... that's the troubling thing for me. well... that and the low goal scoring ops for the US, despite some decent looking attacks.


at least- CP looking positively frosty and full of confidence... even outside of that goal.

 

[AAABatteries]

I haven’t read the thread yet but thought 1st half we looked decent. 2nd half, not good at all. Thought Richards in particular had a bad game - his positioning seemed bad on at least two of the goals.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

We had 0.09 xG from the run of play

Wow... sure seemed like we created a lot in the first half. The shots were generally not great but it seemed like there were quite a few chances.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

what

Seeing a midfield of Reyna, McKennie and Musah get overrun isn't a surprise.

 

[El Floppo]

and the US does really well attacking with Weah and his speed down the right side- best ops came from him pushing down the flank and putting those dangerous balls on the ground across the box.

 

[El Floppo]

what

Seeing a midfield of Reyna, McKennie and Musah get overrun isn't a surprise.

with the 3 inverted, it kinda still is to me.

 

[prefontaine]

We had 0.09 xG from the run of play

Wow... sure seemed like we created a lot in the first half. The shots were generally not great but it seemed like there were quite a few chances.

xG is calculated on shots taken. If there is not a shot, there is 0.0 xG.

 

[El Floppo]

We had 0.09 xG from the run of play

Wow... sure seemed like we created a lot in the first half. The shots were generally not great but it seemed like there were quite a few chances.

it's interesting... it felt like we put their defense into some problems, but their GK not at all. his only saves I recall were some desperately weak rollers- and then standing watching CP nail that stunner. his defense did the work on crosses in the air and ground... although I'm sure I'm forgetting something here or there.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

with the 3 inverted, it kinda still is to me.

Putting an attacking player in a defensive role doesn't make them a better defender IMO. Just creates problems.

 

[El Floppo]

and you guys notice that after CPs goal, they upped their pressure on him- mostly kicking him down before he could turn, or just marking him tighter sometimes with 2. it looked deliberate to me.. . a "we're not going to let this guy do that to us" stance.

 

[El Floppo]

with the 3 inverted, it kinda still is to me.

Putting an attacking player in a defensive role doesn't make them a better defender IMO. Just creates problems.

Musah and Swag are both capable of playing a more defensive role... even if neither of them can be confused with a true 6. I had hoped/expected more from that pairing as DMs.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Swag

I have no way of proving this, but I think McKennie's defense is way overrated. He's an attacking player for me. Putting him deeper just means he's out of position IMO.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I hope it is not just a fluke but I can't help but notice that the two best Pulisic long range goals in his entire career have occurred in just the past few weeks. I have long bemoaned that the missing piece in his game was ball striking.

If by long shot, this is not a fluke and the start of him being confident striking the ball from distance, it is going to help him in multiple ways.

First and foremost, being able to score with out getting crunched between a CB and keeper who each outweigh him by at least 50 pounds is going to be a plus for his long term health.

Also, the book on defending Pulisic once he turns and runs is take the yellow, or more often just drop drop drop until help comes and Pulisic eventually dribbles into traffic. If Pulisic can now add an outside shot to his game, he is going to force defenders to step to him much earlier than they want to which could open up dribbling opportunities for him to get his shot window open.

 

[PIK95]

This is what a pay to play country looks against straight class. We need to do better as usual.

While this was once a BIG issue, it no longer is the case.

Many of our players like Musah, Balogun, Dest, Jedi, CCV, Lund, Johnny etc etc all were developed abroad. Some like Gio and Pulisic left very early to go to Europe. And the rest all mostly come from the academy system which is free to play for all MLS sides and I believe most of the USL sides as well.

There may be a very rare player like Turner who does not focus on soccer early that breaks through later but going forward, the vast vast majority of US Nats will either be dual nats or academy players who moved up and went pro.

I meant its all the rich kids in youth we push up (as a country), because they can pay for it.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This is what a pay to play country looks against straight class. We need to do better as usual.

While this was once a BIG issue, it no longer is the case.

Many of our players like Musah, Balogun, Dest, Jedi, CCV, Lund, Johnny etc etc all were developed abroad. Some like Gio and Pulisic left very early to go to Europe. And the rest all mostly come from the academy system which is free to play for all MLS sides and I believe most of the USL sides as well.

There may be a very rare player like Turner who does not focus on soccer early that breaks through later but going forward, the vast vast majority of US Nats will either be dual nats or academy players who moved up and went pro.

I meant its all the rich kids in youth we push up (as a country), because they can pay for it.

I agree we still have a TON of pay to play in the US.

But what I was trying to say is that almost none of it will effect the sport at this level. All the players who will advance to this level (and almost all the players who will advance to an MLS level) will come from the free to play academies which start players at a very young age and going younger all the time. And these academies scour the landscape for anything they can find that looks like it has promise. I am sure there are still politics involved as they are in all sports at the youth level but I can't even begin to describe how much better it is now than it was 15 years ago. The academies country wide are now loaded with hispanic players who normally would be priced out getting recognized in regular club soccer.

Sure, plenty of 5 year old are still going to play in a pay for play league when they first gets started picking dandelions but that is not really what we are talking about.

 

[El Floppo]

This is what a pay to play country looks against straight class. We need to do better as usual.

While this was once a BIG issue, it no longer is the case.

Many of our players like Musah, Balogun, Dest, Jedi, CCV, Lund, Johnny etc etc all were developed abroad. Some like Gio and Pulisic left very early to go to Europe. And the rest all mostly come from the academy system which is free to play for all MLS sides and I believe most of the USL sides as well.

There may be a very rare player like Turner who does not focus on soccer early that breaks through later but going forward, the vast vast majority of US Nats will either be dual nats or academy players who moved up and went pro.

I meant its all the rich kids in youth we push up (as a country), because they can pay for it.

like who?

 

[PIK95]

This is what a pay to play country looks against straight class. We need to do better as usual.

While this was once a BIG issue, it no longer is the case.

Many of our players like Musah, Balogun, Dest, Jedi, CCV, Lund, Johnny etc etc all were developed abroad. Some like Gio and Pulisic left very early to go to Europe. And the rest all mostly come from the academy system which is free to play for all MLS sides and I believe most of the USL sides as well.

There may be a very rare player like Turner who does not focus on soccer early that breaks through later but going forward, the vast vast majority of US Nats will either be dual nats or academy players who moved up and went pro.

I meant its all the rich kids in youth we push up (as a country), because they can pay for it.

like who?

Six to twelve year old to begin with. It's worse than ever.

 

[El Floppo]

This is what a pay to play country looks against straight class. We need to do better as usual.

While this was once a BIG issue, it no longer is the case.

Many of our players like Musah, Balogun, Dest, Jedi, CCV, Lund, Johnny etc etc all were developed abroad. Some like Gio and Pulisic left very early to go to Europe. And the rest all mostly come from the academy system which is free to play for all MLS sides and I believe most of the USL sides as well.

There may be a very rare player like Turner who does not focus on soccer early that breaks through later but going forward, the vast vast majority of US Nats will either be dual nats or academy players who moved up and went pro.

I meant its all the rich kids in youth we push up (as a country), because they can pay for it.

like who?

Six to twelve year old to begin with. It's worse than ever.

that sucks.

worse than ever... I kinda doubt, given what andy's mentioned regarding academies and the guys we're seeing on the national team.

when he and I were coming up, definitely. no kids of color anywhere- all middle class suburban kids. and even the city kids were mostly kids with money and means... even if a kid with ethnic background. district, state, regional and national youth teams... all middle class, primarily white. watching our youth setup for the last bunch of years- that's changed in a big way with loads more hispanic and black kids. maybe they're all middle class who can pay for it? I dunno.

 

[PIK95]

Those Academy teams are not super cheap. MLS Next is hellspensive. At least in my area.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Those Academy teams are not super cheap. MLS Next is hellspensive. At least in my area.

They are very expensive but to be clear, these are not the MLS academies I am referring to. The MLS academies are almost all free.

MLS Next is a large network of club teams (I think like 600 teams nation wide).

 

[PIK95]

Those Academy teams are not super cheap. MLS Next is hellspensive. At least in my area.

They are very expensive but to be clear, these are not the MLS academies I am referring to. The MLS academies are almost all free.

MLS Next is a large network of club teams (I think like 600 teams nation wide).

I was more involved than I want to let on here, but even the MLS ones cost.

 

[prefontaine]

• I want to be impressed by Scally, but he never seems as good to me as what others are saying

Scally is a very interesting player because he is so much of a tweener for me.

Not big but not small
Not fast but not slow
Not led footed but not technically strong

I am not sure what he does really well and I am not sure what he sucks at.

But to your point, he does not really pop when he is on the field for the US. He does not have the wide attacking instinct GGG usually wants out of his wide backs. Jedi has very little foot skills but his willingness to get up and down that wing does present some problems for the opponent.

What was most concerning was he had almost no connection to Weah most of the game, whether by tactics or by not being used to playing together.

Only quibble I would have is that Scally is pretty big for a fullback as he's 6' tall. In a lot of ways, he a modern Churundolo. But in the modern game, there has been some thought he's better suited as a wide centerback in a back 3.

But it's important to keep in mind he's still 20 years old and is in his 3rd season starting in the Bundesliga - under 3 different coaches which suggests it's no fluke/favoritism. Dolo went to Hannover at 19 but played 4 seasons in the Bundes2 before they were promoted. His first Bundesliga season was at 23. I don't know if Scally will have Dolo's USMNT career but I think he'll surpass his club career which very few US players can say.

 

[El Floppo]

Those Academy teams are not super cheap. MLS Next is hellspensive. At least in my area.

They are very expensive but to be clear, these are not the MLS academies I am referring to. The MLS academies are almost all free.

MLS Next is a large network of club teams (I think like 600 teams nation wide).

I was more involved than I want to let on here, but even the MLS ones cost.

well, sheet man- don't bogart that academy info! spill! I am always happy to learn new stuff to change my thoughts.

 

[PIK95]

Those Academy teams are not super cheap. MLS Next is hellspensive. At least in my area.

They are very expensive but to be clear, these are not the MLS academies I am referring to. The MLS academies are almost all free.

MLS Next is a large network of club teams (I think like 600 teams nation wide).

I was more involved than I want to let on here, but even the MLS ones cost.

well, sheet man- don't bogart that academy info! spill! I am always happy to learn new stuff to change my thoughts.

I'll DM when I have time later.

 

[El Floppo]

I'm an LDLT fan, so this isn't mean as a dig, but I think of him as the new Steve Ralston -- of The Ralston Line fame. A perfectly serviceable player that's right around the median of players in the big tournament pool, but one you're hoping to improve on. Basically the O/U dividing line of the mainstays.

I missed this part of your post. well done on the Ralston line... like the maginot line but for mediocrity- and also undone with ease by ze chermans.


and ftr- I'm a fan of both LDLT and Ralston- yeah, the definition of "serviceable". zusi precursor. I think LDLT has more upside, but maybe more downside too.