Hip drop tackle: what is it? Should it be a penalty? Will the refs even be able to identify and call it correctly? (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

"Hip drop" is just the new buzz word.

I doubt any NFL defender says "Had 2 great hip drops in the game today" Andrews weighs 250lbs, at game speed a LB who probably weighs 240 both running full speed engages from behind and bodies fly in all directions these things happen. The Cinci player had no malice, if Andrews got up it just looked like a regular tackle. He stays down and it is dirty? We watch these plays in slow motion, the players react in split seconds.

Plus when you watch the replay Andrews foot gets caught in the turf as they both were falling.

The game has evolved into huge, fast men, playing on synthetic turf that makes the game even faster, the cuts sharper, the collisions harder, the only thing that gives are players bones and tendons. When 2 people who run 4.5 40s and weigh 250lbs collide it won`t be the turf that gives.

 

[Da Guru]

Law of unintended consequences.

Eliminating the horse collar tackle led to more hip drop tackles and seemingly more season ending lower body injuries.

Eliminating hits up high have forced DBs to go low, also seemingly increasing season ending lower body injuries.

I mean, I get it. Safety is important, but c'mon. It's a dangerous game. These guys are modern day gladiators and they're paid like tech CEOs to do what they do. It's a career path. It's a choice.

The NFL needs to make a choice as well. Continue to damage the sport to appease the masses and lessen lawsuits, or go back to what makes football great while trying to improve safety equipment.

Or they could just go to flag football I suppose?

Or the runners to give themselves up when a defender is approaching. Andrews could have caught the ball and instead of cutting up field just went down to prevent getting tackled from behind.

Of course that is never going to happen.

 

[Hankmoody]

Thanks, after watching the Rugby video above, I think I have a better handle on the concept and wouldn't be opposed to banning this type of tackle. But only if it is clear that the Andrews tackle was a hip drop and the Lamar and Odell tackles were not. If the latter two qualify as well - as many in the conversation beyond this thread are stating - then might as well just put flags on the waists and get it over.

I only caught a flash of the Lamar tackle and when they discussed it later I was like "that wasn't bad was it?". Looking back I think that (and the Odell one, which I did see clearly) are ones you let go. He didn't boost up and drop the weight, he's just trying to wrap up and slides down. Now I do think he was going to try it on Lamar, you can see his hands high and his legs going dead weight like he was going to swing around, but Lamar just burst past and he lost his angle. Still can't call it because he didn't lift and drop.

You can't avoid where your weight goes in that situation and intuitively it makes a lot of sense that you get your weight onto the legs so they can't churn. Hell I was taught that at the high school level. I wasn't an elite 250 pounder of course, and that's why these are worse, but you really can't try to adjudicate that. You can go after intent, which the lift/drop mechanism is.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Law of unintended consequences.

Eliminating the horse collar tackle led to more hip drop tackles and seemingly more season ending lower body injuries.

Eliminating hits up high have forced DBs to go low, also seemingly increasing season ending lower body injuries.

I mean, I get it. Safety is important, but c'mon. It's a dangerous game. These guys are modern day gladiators and they're paid like tech CEOs to do what they do. It's a career path. It's a choice.

The NFL needs to make a choice as well. Continue to damage the sport to appease the masses and lessen lawsuits, or go back to what makes football great while trying to improve safety equipment.

Or they could just go to flag football I suppose?

Or the runners to give themselves up when a defender is approaching. Andrews could have caught the ball and instead of cutting up field just went down to prevent getting tackled from behind.

Of course that is never going to happen.

Good point, offense could do a better job of protecting themselves if they wanted but it would be at the expense of extra yardage and "angry runs."

If the NFL eliminates this tackle along with eliminating the horse collar, it will become almost impossible to get a runner down once he's past you. Or maybe now we'll see more ankle tackles and even more season ending lower body ligament injuries as tackling becomes the NFL equivalent to MMA heel hooks and ankle locks.

 

[LawFitz]

Not that it would make a difference in many/most hip drop injuries, but how about getting rid of synthetic turf fields? If Europe can do it for their football, NFL can do it for ours.

 

[efactor]

I found this video which seems to do a good job of explaining and showing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU

According to the video, Wilson's hit on Andrews was a hip drop, but his hits on Lamar and Odell were not! Upon full review, I'd be okay with the Andrews tackle being outlawed, but if all three are, then tackle football is dead.

I didn't see the tackle on Andrews as intentionally trying to do anything except bring own a huge TE and prevent him from scoring a TD.

Agree. There are enough rules favoring the offense. Phantom PI calls weekly. Players allowed to push the ball carrier forward. Late hits that aren’t late. Helmet to helmet called when they hit with the shoulder. Roughing the passer calls when nobody was roughed. Seriously might as well change it to flag football. I know it sucks when high profile players get hurt but it will suck more if the game is so dramatically altered. I agree with a lot of the player safety changes. With the size and speed of todays players, allowing 70s style play would probably result in some deaths on the field but they are taking it too far if they outlaw “tackling”.

 

[Da Guru]

Not that it would make a difference in many/most hip drop injuries, but how about getting rid of synthetic turf fields? If Europe can do it for their football, NFL can do it for ours.

When you watch many of these injuries the players foot get caught in the synthetic turf in a way that would not happen on grass.

Of course the NFL will say the cost of maintaining fields and that is a joke. Really don`t remember players getting non-contact injuries on a wet or muddy fields and their feel just slip and slide and not stick.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Not that it would make a difference in many/most hip drop injuries, but how about getting rid of synthetic turf fields? If Europe can do it for their football, NFL can do it for ours.

Synthetic fields have probably caused more injuries than hip drop tackles.

 

[Bad_Mo2]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

 

[Da Guru]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

The defender took a straight line to the ball carrier, that is what they all do. Andrews was cutting back trying to score. Bang, bang play.

If this were not Andrews but a third string blocking TE who caught his second pass of the year nobody would even care. I don`t want to see anyone get hurt but blame the game, not the player.

 

[ghostguy123]

Continue to damage the sport to appease the masses and lessen lawsuits, or go back to what makes football great while trying to improve safety equipment.

Or make contracts guaranteed and give the players a bigger piece of what has to be entertainment's biggest pie.

As far as the hip drag tackle goes, I can see outlawing it. It's a pretty deliberate and noticeable tackle. The thing is that it should be reviewed and enforced from upstairs rather than on the field. The NFL has the money to have officials in the sky relaying to the officials on the field what is going on.

None of these conversations will change if the players get paid more.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Continue to damage the sport to appease the masses and lessen lawsuits, or go back to what makes football great while trying to improve safety equipment.

Or make contracts guaranteed and give the players a bigger piece of what has to be entertainment's biggest pie.

As far as the hip drag tackle goes, I can see outlawing it. It's a pretty deliberate and noticeable tackle. The thing is that it should be reviewed and enforced from upstairs rather than on the field. The NFL has the money to have officials in the sky relaying to the officials on the field what is going on.

None of these conversations will change if the players get paid more.

Oh stop, money changes everything. How many lawsuits did you see when players were playing for peanuts and franchises weren’t worth $billions$? How about, gulp, when players played for the love of the game?

 

[ghostguy123]

Continue to damage the sport to appease the masses and lessen lawsuits, or go back to what makes football great while trying to improve safety equipment.

Or make contracts guaranteed and give the players a bigger piece of what has to be entertainment's biggest pie.

As far as the hip drag tackle goes, I can see outlawing it. It's a pretty deliberate and noticeable tackle. The thing is that it should be reviewed and enforced from upstairs rather than on the field. The NFL has the money to have officials in the sky relaying to the officials on the field what is going on.

None of these conversations will change if the players get paid more.

Oh stop, money changes everything. How many lawsuits did you see when players were playing for peanuts and franchises weren’t worth $billions$? How about, gulp, when players played for the love of the game?

I'm not sure i said what you think I said.

 

[jobarules]

Shouldn't be illegal. They will be running out of ways to tackle soon.

 

[jobarules]

Nfl wants to get rid of all these plays but refuse to get rid of turf fields, added an extra game, and have Thursday games.

 

[rockaction]

but refuse to get rid of turf fields, added an extra game

They should get rid of the hip drop, turf fields, and the extra game.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

but refuse to get rid of turf fields, added an extra game

They should get rid of the hip drop, turf fields, and the extra game.

TNF is also likely a bigger contributor than anything but the Turf field.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

The defender took a straight line to the ball carrier, that is what they all do. Andrews was cutting back trying to score. Bang, bang play.

If this were not Andrews but a third string blocking TE who caught his second pass of the year nobody would even care. I don`t want to see anyone get hurt but blame the game, not the player.

Agreed.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

 

[BobbyLayne]

FSU QB Jordan Travis had his leg broken tonight

season over for the Heisman candidate of the undefeated 'noles

 

[Ilov80s]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

I don’t. I’ve watched that play a dozen times now.

There was 1 angle he could take & one way to bring down Andrews. It’s not like he’s as big as Mark Andrews, so an arm tackle doesn’t work.

I’m convinced that without using his body weight, Andrews scores. We can agree to disagree.

 

[bj diggy]

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

I don’t. I’ve watched that play a dozen times now.

There was 1 angle he could take & one way to bring down Andrews. It’s not like he’s as big as Mark Andrews, so an arm tackle doesn’t work.

I’m convinced that without using his body weight, Andrews scores. We can agree to disagree.

What is not being discussed is that there are dozens of these tackles in every game that do not result in injuries. I'm not saying at all that is should or should not be OK - but it's a contact sport first and foremost - players will always get hurt. Always.

 

[ghostguy123]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

 

[ghostguy123]

FSU QB Jordan Travis had his leg broken tonight

season over for the Heisman candidate of the undefeated 'noles

At some point these guys might learn to go down when surrounded by several defenders.

Defender looked like he was trying to pull him back and fell.

 

[FarFromHome]

What's weird is this hip drop tackle was a completely new term to me until this week. Now as I scour my normal football sites I can't get away from it. I think with all the attention its getting, the NFL will address it somehow. Should be an interesting topic at owners meetings this off season.

 

[FarFromHome]

100 years from now the NFL will be a high tech flag football operation. They will look back and be surprised they actually tackled each other in 2023. Ha ha

 

[eighsse2]

What's weird is this hip drop tackle was a completely new term to me until this week. Now as I scour my normal football sites I can't get away from it. I think with all the attention its getting, the NFL will address it somehow. Should be an interesting topic at owners meetings this off season.

Likewise, I had never heard the term before.

 

[eighsse2]

100 years from now the NFL will be a high tech flag football operation. They will look back and be surprised they actually tackled each other in 2023. Ha ha

Personally I prefer tickle football, it's a nice wordplay. You just tickle the ballcarrier, and if he laughs or cracks too much of a smile, he's down.

Slapstick mime football would be a hoot, too.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

FSU QB Jordan Travis had his leg broken tonight

season over for the Heisman candidate of the undefeated 'noles

Bobby, was that a direct link to this type of tackle? I didn't see the FSU game but I saw the gruesome injury

-If so then the quicker they outlaw this thing college and pro the better. I thought Tony Pollard was taken down this way and a lot of people were pissed about it last year.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

but refuse to get rid of turf fields, added an extra game

They should get rid of the hip drop, turf fields, and the extra game.

You forgot booth referees

 

[FarFromHome]

Nfl wants to get rid of all these plays but refuse to get rid of turf fields, added an extra game, and have Thursday games.

Absolutely wonderful point. I get the adding the extra game though, it's math for the league owners. Turf fields is the hypocritical example of we want safety in all areas that doesn't add up for me.

 

[Ilov80s]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

 

[ghostguy123]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

 

[Summer Wheat]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

At game speed trying to tackle elite, strong fast players the defenders are just trying to bring the runner down.

 

[FarFromHome]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

At game speed trying to tackle elite, strong fast players the defenders are just trying to bring the runner down.

Kinda what I was thinking. It's been a long time. A long time. But. When I was in football mode running as fast as I can at the ball carrier my thoughts were "make the tackle" and wasn't "make the tackle but make sure I don't use my weight." I could just need more education on it though. This specific topic is still new to me.

 

[Ilov80s]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

At game speed trying to tackle elite, strong fast players the defenders are just trying to bring the runner down.

Kinda what I was thinking. It's been a long time. A long time. But. When I was in football mode running as fast as I can at the ball carrier my thoughts were "make the tackle" and wasn't "make the tackle but make sure I don't use my weight." I could just need more education on it though. This specific topic is still new to me.

Of course but there are already rules around how to tackle someone and I am sure you processed those and followed them. You didn't clothesline people, trip people, throw people down by the facemask. Players are already learning to change how they use their heads or how the handle a defenseless receiver. Whether we agree or disagree with the rule, sometimes it means they have to pull up and allow the receiver to make the catch.

 

[Ilov80s]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

Right but the defenders are also super athletes. Would a rule banning this tackle make things more difficult for defenders? Sure. But there are already lots of rules that make things more challenging for defenders. The pros are getting paid a lot of money and have to play within whatever the NFL decides the rules are. It's not impossible to tackle someone from behind other ways.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

At game speed trying to tackle elite, strong fast players the defenders are just trying to bring the runner down.

Kinda what I was thinking. It's been a long time. A long time. But. When I was in football mode running as fast as I can at the ball carrier my thoughts were "make the tackle" and wasn't "make the tackle but make sure I don't use my weight." I could just need more education on it though. This specific topic is still new to me.

Of course but there are already rules around how to tackle someone and I am sure you processed those and followed them. You didn't clothesline people, trip people, throw people down by the facemask. Players are already learning to change how they use their heads or how the handle a defenseless receiver. Whether we agree or disagree with the rule, sometimes it means they have to pull up and allow the receiver to make the catch.

I get it but can`t hit high, can`t hit low, can`t lead with helmet.

Let be real though. Clothesline is not even a tackle, tripping and grabbing facemask is totally different than a form of tackling. This injury does not happen often, but like torn ACLs these things happen as it is a fast violent sport.

 

[ghostguy123]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

Right but the defenders are also super athletes. Would a rule banning this tackle make things more difficult for defenders? Sure. But there are already lots of rules that make things more challenging for defenders. The pros are getting paid a lot of money and have to play within whatever the NFL decides the rules are. It's not impossible to tackle someone from behind other ways.

I have a line on what I'd find acceptable. This crosses is, simple as that.

Saying it's not impossible to tackles someone from behind other ways is silly for lots of reasons

 

[zed2283]

This is a dumb argument, like most football tackling arguments. I'm sure they'll try to find a way to make a horrible rule that makes football even more unwatchable because "we can't have our stars getting hurt in a very physical sport because wahh wahh wahhh."

Put a skirt on them then, with little flags hanging off of it.

 

[Da Guru]

100 years from now the NFL will be a high tech flag football operation. They will look back and be surprised they actually tackled each other in 2023. Ha ha

Wont take 100

This is a dumb argument, like most football tackling arguments. I'm sure they'll try to find a way to make a horrible rule that makes football even more unwatchable because "we can't have our stars getting hurt in a very physical sport because wahh wahh wahhh."

Put a skirt on them then, with little flags hanging off of it.

I have seen three so called hip drop tackles in the Lion game already and missed most of the second quarter. 2 by Lions one by Bears.

But no legs were involved.

 

[zed2283]

I have seen three so called hip drop tackles in the Lion game already and missed most of the second quarter. 2 by Lions one by Bears.

But no legs were involved.

This shouldn't even have a name. It's called a tackle. The same way we all used to tackle in the back yard.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I have seen three so called hip drop tackles in the Lion game already and missed most of the second quarter. 2 by Lions one by Bears.

But no legs were involved.

This shouldn't even have a name. It's called a tackle. The same way we all used to tackle in the back yard.

that’s what I’ve been saying the whole time.

Arms + gravity. It’s a tackle.

 

[Loomba]

It’s the Tragically Hip tackle…

 

[pinkstapler]

Dial up rugby league or nrl hip drop tackles. Couldn’t find where it originated but there has been a few of tackle styles outlawed, that were taught by wrestlers or UFC people if memory serves correctly.

They have: hip drop, cannonball, chicken wing and crusher tackles just to name a few

Free Bob Backlund!!

 

[Max Power]

Owners to vote on a drop tackle rule...

Meanwhile, the committee's attempt to eliminate the hip-drop tackles -- a dangerous technique that often results in lower body injuries -- requires officials to note two actions: If a defender "grabs the runner with both hands or wraps the runner with both arms," according to the wording of the proposal and also "unweights himself by swiveling and dropping his hips and/or lower body, landing on and trapping the runner's leg(s) at or below the knee."

I don't like this one bit. Adding subjectivity on almost every tackle isn't a good thing.

 

[renesauz]

Owners to vote on a drop tackle rule...

Meanwhile, the committee's attempt to eliminate the hip-drop tackles -- a dangerous technique that often results in lower body injuries -- requires officials to note two actions: If a defender "grabs the runner with both hands or wraps the runner with both arms," according to the wording of the proposal and also "unweights himself by swiveling and dropping his hips and/or lower body, landing on and trapping the runner's leg(s) at or below the knee."

I don't like this one bit. Adding subjectivity on almost every tackle isn't a good thing.

Is it really all that subjective though? Landing on the players legs is a key component...none of the things they're looking for to define it are all that difficult to see